Author Topic: Ideas & Suggestions  (Read 10085 times)

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Offline lavish

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I couldn't find any topic or subsection for ideas & suggestions, so here's one.
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Head movement due to inertia. In the game you have very good looking cockpits, but without TrackIR (or FreeTrack, etc...) it looks mostly like 2D picture. It almost feels like cockpits are glued to the screen, except when using afterburner, locking view to target, colliding with something or using numpad to look left/right/up/behind. Free mouse look didn't work. So, I suggest to add a slight head (camera) movement caused by acceleration of the controlled ship, whether it's due to maneuvers or actual change in speed. When speed increases, camera could slightly move backwards and vice versa. For ship turns the camera could move to the left/right side depending on direction of centrifugal force (but less up/down of course due to neck  :)). I believe this would make you feel that you actually are in a fast moving ship. Does not apply to cylons, I guess.

Blackouts & redouts. I believe all the flight sim friends here know what these are. For the game purpose these effects could be applied to prolonged up/down g-forces relative to the human body.  This would also prevent beginners to circle too much and would look kinda cool, if the screen could get a bit blurry or something. The effects do not apply for cylons, I guess again.


Some other things to wonder:

Collision damage. Is it possible to increase it? I managed to make a fast combat landing in the last seconds by landing with the side first without any real damage...  Trolololol :D

Friendly fire. Do flak screens damage friendlies? If not, can it be changed to do so, and tweak the A.I. accordingly (do not shoot friendlies or do not fly in flak screen)?


 

Offline newman

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Head movement, we'll see how hard it is to implement (coders will have the final say on this), it would need to be something you can turn off (particularly if using trackIR), but I agree that this would contribute to a more natural feel if you're not using any head tracking.

As for blackouts and redouts, try to remember this isn't exactly the same kind of game as IL-2 or something like that. It's mostly a space shooter, not geared too much towards realism and not being as arcade-like as Freelancer.

Realistic collision damage would make most mission extremely difficult to survive. Realistic? Maybe, if there is such a thing in a game where space fighters dogfight in ww2 style.. But fun? Not so much for a vast majority of players. We've struck a balance between fun gameplay and something that feels true to the show, and that balance wasn't easy to find; so every feature like that, even if it contributes to realism has to be weighed carefully before it's implement.

As for the last point, try flying through the Theseus's flak screen and you'll soon find out there's no such thing as friendly fire :P
« Last Edit: September 24, 2012, 02:38:54 pm by newman »
You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til ya understand who's in ruttin' command here! - Jayne Cobb

 
As for the last point, try flying through the Theseus's flak screen and you'll soon find out there's no such thing as friendly fire :P

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Offline lavish

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Thanks for reply.

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Head movement, we'll see how hard it is to implement (coders will have the final say on this), it would need to be something you can turn off (particularly if using trackIR), but I agree that this would contribute to a more natural feel if you're not using any head tracking.
If coding allows, maybe it can be combined even with TrackIR: Camera movement = TrackIR movement + Inertia movement. An optional setting is always good, if possible.

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As for blackouts and redouts, try to remember this isn't exactly the same kind of game as IL-2 or something like that. It's mostly a space shooter, not geared too much towards realism and not being as arcade-like as Freelancer.
Well, it just feels right to me. A preference. Maybe as an optional setting.

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Realistic collision damage would make most mission extremely difficult to survive. Realistic? Maybe, if there is such a thing in a game where space fighters dogfight in ww2 style.. But fun? Not so much for a vast majority of players. We've struck a balance between fun gameplay and something that feels true to the show, and that balance wasn't easy to find; so every feature like that, even if it contributes to realism has to be weighed carefully before it's implement.
Well, some of us might find it fun, which can be defined in many ways. We're just masoch... err, hehe. :)  Maybe an optional setting depending on preferences again. I personally found it weird to make a serious mistake, crash and just bounce almost like nothing happened. Of course it doesn't have to be totally realistic, but must feel right to some extent at least. Well, anyway... lets move on...

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As for the last point, try flying through the Theseus's flak screen and you'll soon find out there's no such thing as friendly fire :P
I've already done that - no effect on me, I recall.  :o So, I did it again...  :wtf: ....  :eek: .... :eek2: .... :sigh: .... :(
« Last Edit: September 24, 2012, 03:49:44 pm by lavish »

 

Offline Ace

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A slight amount of head movement and increased collision damage in some conditions are things we have or are considering, but not black/red outs for the reasons newman mentioned.
Ace
Self-plagiarism is style.
-Alfred Hitchcock

 

Offline Aether

  • 27
Not sure G-Force matters in space seeing as it's a zero gravity environment. So that'd make black/red-outs unrealistic in that respect (funnily enough).

I'm not positive about that though. I haven't been in space... yet...  ;)

Slight amounts of head movement would be nice (as long as it's not overdone). Me, personally, I'd just be ok with getting the free-look mouse to work so I can see what's going on in the back of a Raptor or just check out my cockpit a bit more. :)
So say we all!

 
The inertia of your ship is what provides the g-force, so yes black/red-outs would be realistic. It would be cool as an option or maybe the higher the skill level the more realistic the g-force effect.
Did you hear that fellas? She says I have a Meritorious Unit.

 

Offline Aether

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Ahhh... Didn't know that! Could be an interesting effect then :)
So say we all!

 

Offline karajorma

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* karajorma waits for people to turn up and insist that rscaper is wrong.


They always turn up in these threads as soon as you mention G-forces in space. It's one thing when they don't know and admit it like Aether, it's a completely different one when they insist they are right. :D
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

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Offline Dragon

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Thing is, most people don't understand how G-forces work. If the ship is flying like in Diaspora, then yes, there should be G-forces. On the other hand, in a realistic flight model (or in glide mode, in Diaspora), the only Gs come from the thrust. Blackout and redouts in the regular flight mode would be realistic and I think they'd add to the atmosphere.
As for collisions, I'd prefer this to be difficulty based. On Normal, they'd be like they're now, on Advanced, a crash would cause a lot of damage (50-60%), but won't necessarily kill you, and on higher levels it'd be pretty much instant kill, especially on Insane (where it should be at a "realistic" value).

 

Offline Swifty

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View bobbing while turning would be interesting to implement but it's definitely something I don't want to impose on everybody. Maybe a Launcher flag in the future but putting yet another flag on the Launcher for such a minor cosmetic feature seems like a waste.

We need to figure out how to somehow get more screens or options in the Options Menu. Too bad it won't happen anytime soon. :P

 

Offline Dragon

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A launcher flag would be fine, they're exactly for that sort of features. This thing would really go well with any sort of cockpit, and making it mod-dependent would be rather pointless.

 

Offline Nighteyes

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I can remember an episode where Adama is speaking with Kara when she has an injured leg, asking if she can press a viper's pedal hard enough with so and so forces on...(can't remember) I assumed this implied there are G forces working on the pilots while flying, so as far as canon goes, blackouts are possible  :yes:

 

Offline Aether

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Well rscraper did a pretty good job at explaining it to me :lol:

The collision damage should definitely be difficulty based (especially for those new to space sims). God knows how many times I collided into things starting out. I had an "atmospheric" mentality of: Oh, collision with a Basestar 3 seconds away? I'll just turn now and avoid it. WRONG! *boom* I think it might be already though? Or maybe it's just less damage taken in general.

I'd be a little worried, considering all the banking and turning I do in Diaspora, that the head bobbing would hamper my gameplay if I couldn't read the HUD properly. That being said, the Diaspora team are excellent at finding that happy medium of just enough to be fun.

True enough, Nighteyes, I remember that episode aswell ;) At the time, I just assumed that because they were attacking the asteroid that there was some gravitational pull to take into account. Then I found out g-forces are about acceleration and inertia (10 minutes ago :lol:)
So say we all!

 

Offline Ace

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Babylon 5: I've Found Her has good Newtonian physics with black/redouts for pilots.

I will also cite it as an example of what we've been accused of being (an unforgiving sim) and what we are aiming NOT to be.

I should clarify:

Story and atmosphere wise we're aiming for unforgiving and brutal.

Actual gameplay wise, not so much. Even combat landings are pretty forgiving on recommended game modes. (easy and normal)
Ace
Self-plagiarism is style.
-Alfred Hitchcock

 

Offline StarSlayer

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It's worth noting that you could build a mod to implement some of those changes yourself, and/or convince/kidnap some coders and tablers.  One hit kill missiles, massive fender benders that lead to bludgeoning by the knuckledraggers, g-forces, head bobbing.  You could throw it up in the user content section for everybody else who wants to go Brütal Mode and froth at the mouth.

heck you could add Haddaway and head bobbing!

« Last Edit: September 24, 2012, 11:38:15 pm by StarSlayer »
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Offline lavish

  • 22
For head movement due to inertia I was also thinking about slight camera movements. Too much bobble or shaking would be annoying indeed. The most important thing is to reduce or eliminate the static cockpit feeling and get some intuitive cool looking information about ship movement - especially when hitting max acceleration with afterburners.

With blackouts and redouts I thought more about effects of inertia (g-forces) for your consciousness and vision, not so much actual fainting. A slight intensifying blur effect in case of hard or prolonged turns, perhaps, would be enough. Again, the idea of this is not because of realism for the sake of it, but to get a feeling of high speed and crude g-forces that the pilot in a viper has. If I remember correctly, they mentioned g-forces a few times(?) in the show like Dragon tried to recall.

For those who haven't heard about g-forces, it just means acceleration (force) divided by acceleration (force) caused by gravitation of earth. G-forces, when it has components in the direction of your body, may cause your blood to run out of your head or into your head making you feel dizzy. This, when strong enough, weakens your consciousness and senses including your vision. If too much blood gets out of your head, you pass out (blackout). If too much blood enters your head, you pass out too (redout).



 

Offline newman

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I doubt anyone here doesn't know what G-forces are :)
You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til ya understand who's in ruttin' command here! - Jayne Cobb

 

Offline Qent

  • 29
Collision damage. Is it possible to increase it? I managed to make a fast combat landing in the last seconds by landing with the side first without any real damage...  Trolololol :D

What difficulty was it, BTW? I'm not too sure about Diaspora, but in FreeSpace the player gets crazy buffs on all levels except Insane.

 

Offline lavish

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I doubt anyone here doesn't know what G-forces are :)
Most likely!  :D

Collision damage. Is it possible to increase it? I managed to make a fast combat landing in the last seconds by landing with the side first without any real damage...  Trolololol :D
What difficulty was it, BTW? I'm not too sure about Diaspora, but in FreeSpace the player gets crazy buffs on all levels except Insane.
Very good point. I think you're right: in Freespace collision damage is dependent on difficulty setting.

I started with Insane, but now - though I won't admit it  :p - Hard or Advanced. Actually mostly Advanced... The game feels more difficult than Freespace (or I'm getting rusty). :nod:

The idea to bind features to difficulty settings is great, and that way they work equally in multiplayer too, I guess. Better that way than buffing A.I. with unfair bonuses.