Author Topic: Joystick control intentionally difficult?  (Read 7679 times)

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Offline quadrox

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Joystick control intentionally difficult?
When I use my (cheap Saitek Evo) joystick to play diaspora, I find the control to be very annoying. For example: I point the stick forward and the nose goes down - this is fine. But when I release the joystick so that it returns to center, the nose keeps going down for a while before actually stopping. I have to actively move the joystick backward to actually make the ship stop immediately, which is very difficult to do accurately. This always leads to overshooting the target, because the ships nose does not actually follow the movement of the joystick, but keeps going on inertia.

When using mouse controls I don't have those problems, the nose always goes exactly where I point. This leads me to my question - is joystick control implemented to be this difficult on purpose, or is it a problem with my joystick? (I don't see how, but I would be happy to learn more)

If it is done intentionally, can we please get a way to disable this "feature"? I prefer to play with my joystick, but as long as the ship handles better with the mouse I will use the mouse!

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Joystick control intentionally difficult?
It sounds like your stick isn't set up correctly.

 

Offline torc

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Re: Joystick control intentionally difficult?
It's not your problem....is the rotdamp factor in the ships that is too high...so you have this gap using the joystick:
Whit the mouse, you don't feel this ''floating'' effect since the movements you do are more accurate and small.
I have an high end X65-f stick and the issue is the same.

I think you'll need a bit of practice and the gap will be less noticeable :) ...anyway the issue will remains.
Maybe decreasing the rotdamp factor (say 50%)  will solve this problems for joy users.
indossare una divisa può avere un prezzo alto...ma a volte...è troppo alto!!! Bill Adama

 

Offline jr2

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Re: Joystick control intentionally difficult?
This would be the reason that I don't use my Saitek X45 any more..

 

Offline torc

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Re: Joystick control intentionally difficult?
really a pity not using an Hotas system in this kind of game...maybe you have less precision than whit a mouse, but you lose a great immersion factor IMHO.
indossare una divisa può avere un prezzo alto...ma a volte...è troppo alto!!! Bill Adama

 

Offline jr2

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Re: Joystick control intentionally difficult?
Eh, can't hit the broad side of a barn, and takes me about 5-10x longer to shoot down anything.  (Unless it's doing a nice smooth loop with no evasives.)

 

Offline torc

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  • Diaspora SFX engineer
Re: Joystick control intentionally difficult?
If some people that uses joysticks have this kind of issues, would be good posting here their concerns about it.

Maybe Diaspora staff will do something about it. :)
indossare una divisa può avere un prezzo alto...ma a volte...è troppo alto!!! Bill Adama

 

Offline boewolf

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Re: Joystick control intentionally difficult?
I would like to know which sticks they tested with.  I'm thinking of getting one.

 

Offline KyadCK

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Re: Joystick control intentionally difficult?
I'm having no problems pegging them with my Extreme 3D Pro. Ship continues to "slide" when you mke heavy turns, but it interfers more with landing then with aiming.
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Offline torc

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Re: Joystick control intentionally difficult?
Saitek X65-f here.

As i said before, it needs more practice using sticks instead mouses, but i think you'll learn to fly a Viper pretty well after a while. :)
I'd like to point that i'm ok whit the current settings, but if for some people using sticks is a frustraction factor because the rotdamp,and players gave up to use them, maybe a little tweak would be done IMO.
I think we should try to make ''balanced''  joy users and mouse users.

Your feedback is very important regarding that.
indossare una divisa può avere un prezzo alto...ma a volte...è troppo alto!!! Bill Adama

 

Offline Brennus

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Re: Joystick control intentionally difficult?
Watch my videos via YouTube, I use a CH HOTAS w/ zero issues, although it is a highly customized configuration.  Increase your dead-zone.
"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til ya understand who's in ruttin' command here."

- Jayne Cobb, "Firefly"

 

Offline torc

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Re: Joystick control intentionally difficult?
I have the setting just the opposite as you :
try to play at insane whit autoaim off...the rest are just words :D
A multiplaier match would be good to test your config,and i think some skilled mouse user can kill you every 10 seconds...no offense but that's the thrut.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2012, 12:41:48 am by torc »
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Offline KyadCK

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Re: Joystick control intentionally difficult?
I have the setting just the opposite as you :
try to play at insane whit autoaim off...the rest are just words :D
A multiplaier match would be good to test your config,and i think some skilled mouse user can kill you every 10 seconds...no offense but that's the thrut.

And those who have been dogfighting for years against others? Where do we stand in all this?  :D
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Offline torc

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Re: Joystick control intentionally difficult?
i mean that i'm afraid mouse users will have aiming advantages, i don't wanna to discuss your skills.
You're a good player, and i have a completely different stick that i had to heavily configure for make it work properly in Diaspora, and it works great...mine was just a more ''balancing discussions''
indossare una divisa può avere un prezzo alto...ma a volte...è troppo alto!!! Bill Adama

 
Re: Joystick control intentionally difficult?
Tested with the logitch Extreme, Extreme 3d, and Saitek X45 set.  All three work.  The Extreme 3d is the only one you're likely to find on an actual shelf somewhere.  Else you have to order online for the X52 (the X45's replacement). 

There is a dead zone with the joystick.  The can be slightly overcome with adjusting settings using the joystick's software plus game settings, but I can fly fairly well even with about a decade's worth of rust in this style of game.  The mouse is probably better for fine control movements, but I can hit targets just fine with the joystick.  I just takes practice.  Granted I grew up in the 1990's and space combat sims were all the rage with the Wing Commander and Xwing Series.  FreeSpace 2 was the culmination of that genre sadly.  (Well done game and the SCP folks have carried on nicely, but the fact we don't get AAA space combat titles anymore.  Just look at the fact that Joysticks are pretty much a niche product these days for online retailers)

 

Offline torc

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Re: Joystick control intentionally difficult?
That's true....i had to buy a joystick for a friend and i had a lot of problem find one of them in stores here in italy.... i had to buy it on ebay. :(
indossare una divisa può avere un prezzo alto...ma a volte...è troppo alto!!! Bill Adama

 

Offline KyadCK

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Re: Joystick control intentionally difficult?
i mean that i'm afraid mouse users will have aiming advantages.

*shrug* Mouse users will always have the aiming advantage, that's just how the controls work in FSO, this over shoot stuff or not.

Each controler type has it's own advantages and disadvantages. Someone made a huge post about it somewhere, but I'll be damned if I can find it.
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Offline jr2

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Re: Joystick control intentionally difficult?
If you want to get rid of the mouse's advantage just to test how good mouse vs joystick is in a dogfight, then get weapons with a very limited range and dogfight with them (maybe 100 or 150 m?? not sure, would have to experiment)... and ofc no missiles.

 
Re: Joystick control intentionally difficult?
I think a joystick user will have an innate advantage when dodging and maneuvering because a joystick just naturally lends itself to broad, sweeping motions and quick, evasive ones. I'd guess that that could sort of cancel out the fine aiming controls of the mouse.

 

Offline jr2

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Re: Joystick control intentionally difficult?
I think it's joystick user evading mouse user in a close-range, turning dogfight is at advantage, until he increases range to where the accuracy of a mouse comes into play.

Mouse user evading joystick user in a close-range, turning dogfight is at a disadvantage, until he increases range to where the joystick's lack of accuracy comes into play (as long as he doesn't just fly in a straight line, lol).

Summary:

Long range = mouse has advantage, unless joystick has some easily accessible fine-tuned aiming controls.

Short range = joystick has advantage, unless mouse/joy script or similar is used.


...IMHO