[meego]

With 3.6.10 around the corner, it may be time to update FS2_Open's system requirements.

I'm making this a OSX-only thread because it always felt that performance on OSX was really different from what I would get on Windows. Correct me if I'm wrong. As for Linux, I simply have no clue.

I'm using a 2007 2.2GHz MacBook Pro (128MB 8600M) and I've found that the latest graphical improvement put such a strain on my computer I have to remove a huge lot of stuff to get good performance.

This made me think.. It could be interesting to define system requirements for limited "profiles" such as:
- High End : everything ON (advanced vps, normal maps, 16x anisotropic filtering, 1440+ resolution, spec, glow, env, mipmap)
- Quality : advanced vps, normal maps, 8x anisotropic filterting, 1024+ resolution, spec, glow, env, mipmap
- Performance : advanced vps, normal maps, 2x anisotropic filtering, 800+ resolution, spec, glow, env, mipmap
- Classic : vanilla

Such information could be relevant in 3.6.10 release notes / FAQ for OSX. A lot of folks will probably come in with high expectations for graphical improvements and realize their computer can't handle most of them.

Maybe four profiles is too much. Maybe someone with a more acute sense of FS2_Open features' performance cost can define more relevant profiles.

My laptop is only able to run (barely) the performance profile, hence this WIP system requirements chart:
- High End : ?
- Quality : ?
- Performance : 2.2GHz Core 2 Duo, 2.5 GB RAM, 128MB NVIDIA 8600M
- Classic : ?

One last thing. There were last time I checked some specific ATI/NVIDIA issues with FS2_Open. Maybe I'm a few years late on this but if there are still some, it would be worth mentioning.

[portej05]

Launcher is getting overhauled after 3.6.10.

Maybe we can consider profiles then.

[chief1983]

Actually the launcher flags already have different profiles, but they're hardcoded and static across the platforms.  That doesn't include things on the graphics tab, but most of those settings don't currently do anything anyway.  I don't think Soulstorm's launcher uses those command line option profiles either, but I could be wrong.

[Echelon9]

meego,

I've got pretty much exactly the same hardware on which I've been doing the Mac OpenGL troubleshooting for 3.6.10. I'd venture that the big increase in OS X users since 3.6.9 all have at least as good hardware as us.

The hardware *should* support pretty much all eye candy turned on - and it does if I boot into Windows - EXCEPT for a bug in normal mapping. There's still a glaring performance bug (Mantis 1881) that means the GLSL shader code gets run on the CPU rather than utilising the more efficient GPU.

At present, for 3.6.10 to be playable on OS X, you've got to enable -no_glsl on the command line / Launcher. Any other options or advanced vps can be run with little trouble.

I'd love to get this solved prior to 3.6.10 FINAL, but myself and others who know the graphics code are still scratching our heads trying to work out why the code works on Windows but not on OS X.

[chief1983]

Yup, I feel your pain guys, hopefully that can all get sorted out by the end of the year.

[meego]

Thanks for the heads up on the shaders issues.

As for system requirements and profiles, I guess then there is little point in defining system requirements until Mantis 1881 is fixed.

I'd love to get this solved prior to 3.6.10 FINAL, but myself and others who know the graphics code are still scratching our heads trying to work out why the code works on Windows but not on OS X.

From what I heard, ATI and (especially) NVIDIA drivers for OSX are not exactly state of the art... Good luck with that 

[Echelon9]

From what I heard, ATI and (especially) NVIDIA drivers for OSX are not exactly state of the art... Good luck with that 

As of late, I'm less inclined to believe it's a driver issue - more likely something in the way the FS2Open code base interfaces with the OpenGL libraries.

The recent 10.5.7 release for OS X saw a slight overall improvement in OpenGL performance, but I think that's more the impact of small iterative improvements in the drivers.

[Soulstorm]

Actually the launcher flags already have different profiles, but they're hardcoded and static across the platforms.  That doesn't include things on the graphics tab, but most of those settings don't currently do anything anyway.  I don't think Soulstorm's launcher uses those command line option profiles either, but I could be wrong.

You are right. I only include in the launcher the things that the flag.lch file gives me. I would like to include more, though. When 3.6.10 comes out, I will visit the Wiki. I will see what has changed in terms of the way profiles and the flag file is handled, and will work my way towards Launcher 4. Yes, I haven't forgotten about that. The fact that I have fixed most of the problems with the 3 version, doesn't mean that the source is not cr*p at this point and doesn't need a rewrite

[Admiral LSD]

My Mid 2007 MacBook (2.16GHz C2D, GMA950) can handle the training missions and the first few missions of the main campaign at 1280x800 with none of the graphical extras on (I have them off because I can't be bothered with them, even on the system with the Radeon 4850). It'll probably fall over once you get to the nebula missions or larger missions like what you get in Derelict but I can't be bothered playing ahead far enough to find out, especially when mouse acceleration is still flaky.

[Androgeos Exeunt]

Mine is an early 2008 MacBook. It can handle absolutely everything ... just.

[Echelon9]

Mine is an early 2008 MacBook. It can handle absolutely everything ... just.

Including normal maps (i.e. -normal on the command line)?

[Androgeos Exeunt]

Yes, everything.

[tlc337]

Hello.  I have two macbooks, one is the brand new late 2009 and the other is a 2k7.  Neither of them will run FSO well with all the stuff turned on.  In fact, performance is indistinguishable between the two systems.  One has a stock Intel graphics and the other one has the Nvidia. 

Could you be more specific as to how you're accomplishing this?  With everything turned on, missions like Renegades or Tenderizer are nearly unplayable (~10 fps with more than one ship on screen).  This is with the default turey install.

Despite this issue, I really appreciate you guys for getting this running on the mac.

[chief1983]

Try disabling things and then seeing what causes the slowdown.  First things to try would be normal maps and/or env maps.  Enable the -no_glsl flag too perhaps, that will in turn disable normal maps since they depend on GLSL.

[tlc337]

I was trying this last night, but I couldn't get the launcher to actually disable anything.  I tried checking nogsls in the launcher, but everything appeared as normal.  Perhaps I'm doing something wrong, and should just handkey the command line options.

[chief1983]

Hmm, Soulstorm's launcher has given me troubles like that recently too.  Not sure if it is at the moment though, don't fire it up on my mac a lot.

[Androgeos Exeunt]

I was trying this last night, but I couldn't get the launcher to actually disable anything.  I tried checking nogsls in the launcher, but everything appeared as normal.  Perhaps I'm doing something wrong, and should just handkey the command line options.

Hmm, Soulstorm's launcher has given me troubles like that recently too.  Not sure if it is at the moment though, don't fire it up on my mac a lot.

If the OS X Launcher doesn't seem to save any flag changes, try pressing the Save button before pressing the Reload button.

Also, bear in mind that I mentioned the word "just", which means that I can still play FS2_Open with everything turned on, albeit barely.

[Soulstorm]

If the problem persists, I would really like someone to tell me more about the problem with the Launcher.

Tomorrow, guys will be a happy day for me. I give the last 2 lessons form my exams (those exams lasted two months!!) and then, I will be free to completely get rid of the old source of the Launcher.

So, any bug reports will be heard of, and I can start looking at bugs with the "old" Launcher instantly.

[chief1983]

I had meant to do a little more investigation myself before mentioning it, figured I had goofed somewhere, but since someone else mentioned it I figured I'd bring it up too.  I'll check here in a couple minutes maybe before I leave the office to see if it's still going on.

[tlc337]

Wow.  Thanks for dropping in Soul.  I really appreciate everything you've done.  As it stands right now, I can't get Freespace to recognize command line parameters with or without your Launcher.  So, I don't know if it's your problem.