Author Topic: NOT A RELEASE: Legendary, a backup dump and after the fact discussion  (Read 7490 times)

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Offline HLD_Prophecy

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Re: NOT A RELEASE: Legendary, a backup dump and after the fact discussion
Truth is guys this is getting out of hand, no offense Nightmare! But I am beginning to tread on very dangerous ground that really has little to do with my mod dump! - potentially ethical and historical controversy, and if I get on about it I WILL get on about it and we could well have an argument on our hands.

I'd rather stop this here, Nightmare? Can I keep my thread on topic?  :)

 
Re: NOT A RELEASE: Legendary, a backup dump and after the fact discussion
Can I keep my thread on topic?  :)

Yes you may! :D

 

Offline HLD_Prophecy

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Re: NOT A RELEASE: Legendary, a backup dump and after the fact discussion
Thanks man, it's all good! I do like to talk about these things sometimes but TBH I can definitely bite off more than I can chew, especially online.  :nod:

Will be back in a few days, I think, with the setting!

 
Re: NOT A RELEASE: Legendary, a backup dump and after the fact discussion
im useing your mod for happynewyear do you mind

 

Offline HLD_Prophecy

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Re: NOT A RELEASE: Legendary, a backup dump and after the fact discussion
im useing your mod for happynewyear do you mind

I don't mind at all! Enjoy!  :D  Just make sure that you credit the original creators of any assets.  :nod:  unfortunately that might be tricky - I do not remember at all how complete my documentation was. You might have to investigate the sources yourself if I don't have them written down...

 

Offline HLD_Prophecy

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Re: NOT A RELEASE: Legendary, a backup dump and after the fact discussion
Setting time!  :D A tad busy tonight so I'll set up the basic background. I'll return later with more setting details and technology level to flesh things out, then move to what my plans were for the plot, mission by mission.

Legendary takes place at least one millennia after the end of FS2. Possibly more, maybe up to or exceeding two millenia. I didn't really care too much, honestly the further out the better for my purposes. Most sci-fi that reaches that far out would radically upgrade humanity, introduce new aliens, psychic phenomena, galaxy-spanning empires with hundreds if not thousands of new systems...

Lol, I didn't go for any of that. Terran borders are roughly the same as FS2 GTVA, if not a bit smaller. No new aliens. The Sol gate was never re-opened (I think?) The Shivans have never returned since Capella, surprisingly. Or if they have, they were only stealthy spies - I suppose it could have happened but that wasn't addressed at all in my plot.

The systems are still nominally allied/controlled under a Terran government: colloquially referred to as United Humanity, or UH. Granted it sounds cheezy but hey so does the UN.  ;)  UH administration lays claim to all inhabited systems, but the systems where it actually holds any semblance of control are pitifully few; Delta Serpentis is the seat of government. The fringes (say past Ross 128 or Aldebaran for example) are all but ignored by the overtaxed government, leaving them free for intrepid pioneers. Or pirates.

Unlike, say, the GTVA, the UH is simply inept. It's huge, on paper there are more than enough bureaucrats to handle every system and then some, but in fact they barely manage the affairs of those few systems where they have a bit more power. In the name of simplicity it was organized more like one massive body, with branches poorly recognized. A miserable state of affairs with crossed signals and confused chain of command.

There is a UH Navy. It's poorly equipped even by the slightly regressive tech standards of the setting (no more beams as I recall, see my tech explanation later). Three massive, lumbering, aging destroyers, armed only with blobs, form the fleet's only real bulk. (These used the GTD Henderson user-made model) There were a bunch of cruisers and auxiliaries, presumably, and fighters (though the destroyers had no fighterbay!!). Fleet assets, with little else to do, would lumber around the systems with no proper cover and poor efficiency, responding often belatedly if at all to distress calls.

The UH was not actively malicious as a whole, simply incredibly apathetic and poorly equipped. If any in the government wanted to help matters, they were stifled not so much by deliberate force as by the wretched inefficiency of the whole mess. And yes, there were outright crooks in high places.

This corrupt state of affairs had a few results: A lack of technological advancement. A reinforcement of simple desire to survive among civilians. Distrust of centrality and government. A major movement towards isolation and self-sufficiency among individual systems and colonies. Local efforts to fight back against pirates.

And yes, pirates.

Decades before the start of the story, piracy and other criminal activity had been a dominant factor. Naturally the weakness of the government encouraged predation. By the time of the story there's basically pirates pirates everywhere. And they don't not do anything this time.  :D  They've even infiltrated the government; despite the plethora of pirate groups and their constant infighting, some groups have made dark deals with ostensibly loyal officials. A conspiracy is in the works... more on that later.  Their attacks made an already bad situation worse - as support for the UH drops to all-time lows, they can't scrape funding and willpower together to fight back against the influx of raiders. Local militias and disgruntled police fight back as they can, desperately clinging to whatever territory, livelihood, and civilians they can protect...

The state of affairs is a short step away from total anarchy.

Into this world step our heroes. Short description here: Vigilantes. Led and funded by a former UH governor (maybe a navy member?) known as "The Chief". Elderly but with fighting spirit, he has had enough of the disintegration of his people. Digging into a deep personal pocket and relying on old friends/government contacts, he manages to scrape together a small task force of an old carrier and a handful of fightercraft. With UH sanctions on his heels yet with little to fear from the inept Naval command, the player character (one of Chief's hand-picked pilots) and the rest of the small group perform quick-response duties, browsing all channels for distress calls and hunting down pirates. Immensely popular among civilians, as they gain fame they start to be referred to as "Legendary"...




Thanks, guys, that was a rough sketch of what I can remember about my setting! Wow, that was years ago...  :p  Still very fun to bring this out and dust it off! I will be back later with more details. Questions, comments and advice are welcome! I can use the help.  :nod:

 
Re: NOT A RELEASE: Legendary, a backup dump and after the fact discussion
While the overall setting is pretty fine, you're in serious need for a better backstory as your "somehow like FS, but completely different" doesn't make much sense to me. A couple examples:
-Vasudans just... disappeared.
-Jump nodes are almost identical to FS2, although they last only for decades, maybe centuries.
-It has been several millenia since FS2, but over the entire time (I doubt that they would remain static for thousands of years) an all-Terran government didn't bother to built a Sol Gate, or atleast establish sublight communication? At that time scope, people could have traveled to Sol and back at sublight speed.
-Did UH disarm themselves voluntary? Just 3 destroyers without fighterbays isn't that much...


Some ideas how to come such a scenario (bit like Exile).
Plans to built a Sol Gate are dropped after the light from Sol going Supernova reaches Alpha Centauri.
Couple years later, the Shivans reappear on multiple fronts, destroy all Vasudan and several Terran systems as well as most of GTVAs fleet.
In a last-ditch attack GTVA equips all remaining destroyers with meson bombs and blows up all subspace nodes.
The remaining Terrans are isolated and sparsely populated (there are much more systems that were Terran at some point of FS1/2), causing their civilisation to collapse.

 

Offline HLD_Prophecy

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Re: NOT A RELEASE: Legendary, a backup dump and after the fact discussion
While the overall setting is pretty fine, you're in serious need for a better backstory as your "somehow like FS, but completely different" doesn't make much sense to me. A couple examples:
-Vasudans just... disappeared.
-Jump nodes are almost identical to FS2, although they last only for decades, maybe centuries.
-It has been several millenia since FS2, but over the entire time (I doubt that they would remain static for thousands of years) an all-Terran government didn't bother to built a Sol Gate, or atleast establish sublight communication? At that time scope, people could have traveled to Sol and back at sublight speed.
-Did UH disarm themselves voluntary? Just 3 destroyers without fighterbays isn't that much...


Some ideas how to come such a scenario (bit like Exile).
Plans to built a Sol Gate are dropped after the light from Sol going Supernova reaches Alpha Centauri.
Couple years later, the Shivans reappear on multiple fronts, destroy all Vasudan and several Terran systems as well as most of GTVAs fleet.
In a last-ditch attack GTVA equips all remaining destroyers with meson bombs and blows up all subspace nodes.
The remaining Terrans are isolated and sparsely populated (there are much more systems that were Terran at some point of FS1/2), causing their civilisation to collapse.


Do remember guys: this was written years ago when I was a teenager, any plot holes are mine!  :p

1. Yes, Vasudans are not present. I'll explain that now; it largely was a lampshade of the fact that zods would not have fit into my plot very well. I leave the absence of Vasudans unexplained in the plot. I didn't visit any zod systems. My headcanon was that there were two main possibilities: First, they were well and truly extinct. Only of interest to historians and archaeologists. The Terran inhabitants of Vasuda Prime go about their day without ever thinking of what came before. Second option is that the Vasudan Imperium still exists but, witnessing the fall of Terran society, they've become incredibly insular, removing themselves to a few core systems and shutting themselves off completely.

2. Jump nodes can fluctuate yes... I'll admit that's a bit of a plot hole. I didn't say the nodemap was perfectly identical, mind, just similar. The Capella nodes just recently came back into existence BTW, that's Act 2 I'll get to that.  :)  Also remember that natural phenoma do not always occur at the same rate forever. For example the half-lives of elements, the rate of catastrophic occurrences on a tectonic level, even the speed of light are known to have fluctuated. Could be nodes started becoming more permenanet. But yeah, that's very much an after-the-fact explanation and it was mostly an oversight that I did not notice as I liked the setting feature.

3. They could well have tried a Sol Gate. Or not. Maybe they tried one, but failed? It was millennia ago. Of course they could have sent someone sublight, but who would sign up for that? Entropy is very real; things fall apart over time and not every decision makes sense with a millennia's worth of hindsight.   :D

4. Yes and no. More like they couldn't scrape together the motivation or funding for anything larger. I meant that their relatively tiny Navy should symbolize their incapacity to GET STUFF DONE.  :p





Okay, and I say again: I may try to defend decisions ex post facto but this is not a setting or plot that I am trying to bring back or make watertight for a modern release. Again, this was as a young teenager;)  Look at your average cringey teenage fanfic and tell me I have that many more problems.  :lol:  Also, I never had "somehow like FS but different" in mind. I did not have that preconceived necessity when making the universe. A lot of these things are unexplained, yes, but plausible IMHO. If only barely plausible.  :D

Quote
you're in serious need for a better backstory

I guess your comment here just rankled me a bit even if you didn't mean it that way.  :) M8 I'm not interested in fixing it up, this is how it was.


All that said your advice is useful for future projects! But if y'all could remember that it's general design advice that's useful, rather than poking specific holes in something I already know is tenuous at best...  :nod:

 
Re: NOT A RELEASE: Legendary, a backup dump and after the fact discussion
Sry if it came across a bit harsh, it was just what was going right through my head. :)

Which is still under the influence of a mod which is the epilog to BP and FS as well as related to ME, BSG, Star Ixiom etc...

Quote
All that said your advice is useful for future projects! But if y'all could remember that it's general design advice that's useful, rather than poking specific holes in something I already know is tenuous at best...  :nod:

Well I said I didn't meant poking at specific holes, just to show examples of what I felt was missing. The setting itself is interesting and unusual for FS, but how did you end up there? Having your setting related to FS can of course get people interested as they have a certain expectation with that you can play- another example I had was following concept:
Quote
GTVA returns to Earth, but Earth is now a lush green forest world, and there's no single human in Sol. There're no Shivans, no destruction but also no message left behind. And of course there's no sudden inter-universe travel. All GTVA has is a giant mistery.

If you relate an elseway unrelated plot to FS without a particular reason just because you felt you liked it that way (see a certain other thread, or the "Terrans are now the native species of Vasuda Prime for some unknown reason") there might be people here would just play the mod as you envisioned it, but others would question that. One way or another, it might still be a way to make things better.

When you can't find a reason why your setting is related to FS (but don't feel like writing an original plot) you can either say "****, how did I forgot these plotholes, my story is so bad etc" OR you can use that to figure out what your backstory could be like, and use it to make your main mod more interesting (even though the backstory might not play that much of a role for the actual plot). Atleast that's what I would do and actually did with the "empty Earth" concept above. That's what I tried to do with the backstory in the previous post, though I don't know whether you found my ideas good or bad, I threw them together in a couple mins.

Quote
I may try to defend decisions ex post facto but this is not a setting or plot that I am trying to bring back or make watertight for a modern release. Again, this was as a young teenager.  ;)  Look at your average cringey teenage fanfic and tell me I have that many more problems.

Half the magic is that you don't show old **** to anybody! :p
https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=28883.msg588565#msg588565

 

Offline HLD_Prophecy

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Re: NOT A RELEASE: Legendary, a backup dump and after the fact discussion
Right. All this is pretty darn useful for writing new plots from this point onward.  :nod: I would definitely think about some more background if I were to re-write it - although bear in mind a good story need not explain every single detail that brought it there. Over-exposition is the bane of many. But even if the audience doesn't hear everything, the author should have his setting's ducks in a row - it helps coherent writing.

Unlike, say, a certain epilogue to BP, I'm more or less aware of the problems in this setting. Generally any holes/problems could be explained away with "it's been a really really long time" and "things can change but also not change at all". I guess that's the way I see history; it's not safe to say what will and won't change. But I digress. Much of that is after-the-fact although I did have some of those "explanations" in mind at the time.

It may be wise for me to stick to explaining what the plot/setting was, just as it was, without giving a modern defense.

I guess I should've seen more of this coming when I decided to show this old stuff. I did ask for comments after all!  :lol:

Will get back to this topic in a few days or so with some more setting/design commentary for your enjoyment thoughtful critique.  :D

 
Re: NOT A RELEASE: Legendary, a backup dump and after the fact discussion
shivans too
theres two ships broken i need fix ofit
Error: Can't open model file <tsc2.pof>
File: modelread.cpp
Line: 1062

ntdll.dll! NtWaitForSingleObject + 20 bytes
KERNELBASE.dll! WaitForSingleObjectEx + 162 bytes
fred2_open_3_8_0_x64_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fred2_open_3_8_0_x64_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fred2_open_3_8_0_x64_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fred2_open_3_8_0_x64_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fred2_open_3_8_0_x64_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fred2_open_3_8_0_x64_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fred2_open_3_8_0_x64_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fred2_open_3_8_0_x64_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fred2_open_3_8_0_x64_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fred2_open_3_8_0_x64_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fred2_open_3_8_0_x64_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fred2_open_3_8_0_x64_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fred2_open_3_8_0_x64_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fred2_open_3_8_0_x64_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fred2_open_3_8_0_x64_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
USER32.dll! CallWindowProcW + 1217 bytes
USER32.dll! CallWindowProcW + 139 bytes
OPENGL32.dll! glDebugEntry + 62385 bytes
USER32.dll! CallWindowProcW + 1217 bytes
USER32.dll! DispatchMessageW + 467 bytes
fred2_open_3_8_0_x64_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fred2_open_3_8_0_x64_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fred2_open_3_8_0_x64_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fred2_open_3_8_0_x64_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
KERNEL32.DLL! BaseThreadInitThunk + 20 bytes
ntdll.dll! RtlUserThreadStart + 33 bytes
Error: Can't open model file <tsc2.pof>
File: modelread.cpp
Line: 1062

ntdll.dll! NtWaitForSingleObject + 20 bytes
KERNELBASE.dll! WaitForSingleObjectEx + 162 bytes
fred2_open_3_8_0_x64_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fred2_open_3_8_0_x64_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fred2_open_3_8_0_x64_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fred2_open_3_8_0_x64_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fred2_open_3_8_0_x64_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fred2_open_3_8_0_x64_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fred2_open_3_8_0_x64_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fred2_open_3_8_0_x64_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fred2_open_3_8_0_x64_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fred2_open_3_8_0_x64_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fred2_open_3_8_0_x64_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fred2_open_3_8_0_x64_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fred2_open_3_8_0_x64_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fred2_open_3_8_0_x64_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fred2_open_3_8_0_x64_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
USER32.dll! CallWindowProcW + 1217 bytes
USER32.dll! CallWindowProcW + 139 bytes
OPENGL32.dll! glDebugEntry + 62385 bytes
USER32.dll! CallWindowProcW + 1217 bytes
USER32.dll! DispatchMessageW + 467 bytes
fred2_open_3_8_0_x64_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fred2_open_3_8_0_x64_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fred2_open_3_8_0_x64_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fred2_open_3_8_0_x64_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
KERNEL32.DLL! BaseThreadInitThunk + 20 bytes
ntdll.dll! RtlUserThreadStart + 33 bytes
2 ships missing
« Last Edit: December 24, 2018, 10:53:08 am by woutersmits »

 
Re: NOT A RELEASE: Legendary, a backup dump and after the fact discussion
HLD_Prophecy :wtf: ... did you not debug your modpack before releasing...? :hopping: ;)

@Wouter: just rename tsc2.pof to tc2x.pof in the ships.tbl.

 

Offline HLD_Prophecy

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Re: NOT A RELEASE: Legendary, a backup dump and after the fact discussion
 :nervous:

 :D

Lol guys as Nightmare knows ( :D) this was never even release-ready all the way back then! It's literally been drawn from my dusty archive, untouched since all those years ago.

@wouter I do apologize, I had forgotten just how truly badly outdated this had become. I need to leave it to you for now, more or less. I'm going to be out for Christmas. I'll be back maybe a day or two or three after Christmas to revisit this topic. Hope you all enjoy Christmas and have a happynewyear!  :nod:

 

Offline Bryan See

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Re: NOT A RELEASE: Legendary, a backup dump and after the fact discussion
I'm fixing it now.

Clarification: Is this Happy New Year?
Bryan See - My FreeSpace Wiki User Page (Talk, Contributions)

Full Projects:
Shattered Stars

Campaigns:
Lost in the Mist - Cyrene vs. Psamtik
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Ships:
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Tools:
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I've been under attack by Tiger Parents like Jennifer Pan...

 
Re: NOT A RELEASE: Legendary, a backup dump and after the fact discussion
I'm fixing it now.

Clarification: Is this Happy New Year?

No.

 
Re: NOT A RELEASE: Legendary, a backup dump and after the fact discussion
correct but im alowwed to use this

 
Re: NOT A RELEASE: Legendary, a backup dump and after the fact discussion
I'd presume this hasn't changed.

im useing your mod for happynewyear do you mind

I don't mind at all! Enjoy!  :D  Just make sure that you credit the original creators of any assets.  :nod:  unfortunately that might be tricky - I do not remember at all how complete my documentation was. You might have to investigate the sources yourself if I don't have them written down...

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: NOT A RELEASE: Legendary, a backup dump and after the fact discussion
* Colonol Dekker beingnosey.gif

I like the sound of the UH.  Civil service in space......utterly useless.
Campaigns I've added my distinctiveness to-
- Blue Planet: Battle Captains
-Battle of Neptune
-Between the Ashes 2
-Blue planet: Age of Aquarius
-FOTG?
-Inferno R1
-Ribos: The aftermath / -Retreat from Deneb
-Sol: A History
-TBP EACW teaser
-Earth Brakiri war
-TBP Fortune Hunters (I think?)
-TBP Relic
-Trancsend (Possibly?)
-Uncharted Territory
-Vassagos Dirge
-War Machine
(Others lost to the mists of time and no discernible audit trail)

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Secret bomb God.
That one time I got permabanned and got to read who was being bitxhy about me :p....
GO GO DEKKER RANGERSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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The only good Zod is a dead Zod
NEWGROUNDS COMEDY GOLD, UPDATED DAILY
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Offline Bryan See

  • Has anyone really been far as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
  • 210
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    • Skype
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Re: NOT A RELEASE: Legendary, a backup dump and after the fact discussion
Where do we get this file "tsc2.pof"?
Bryan See - My FreeSpace Wiki User Page (Talk, Contributions)

Full Projects:
Shattered Stars

Campaigns:
Lost in the Mist - Cyrene vs. Psamtik
FreeSpace: Reunited

Ships:
GTS Hygeia, GTT Argo, SC Raguel

Tools:
FSO TC/Game template

I've been under attack by Tiger Parents like Jennifer Pan...

 

Offline Novachen

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Re: NOT A RELEASE: Legendary, a backup dump and after the fact discussion
Is this not the name of one of the retail containers?

Should be tc2x.pof in the MVPs iirc.
Female FreeSpace 2 pilot since 1999.
Former Global moderator in the German FreeSpace Galaxy Forum.
Developer of NTP - A Multi-Language Translation Library Interface, which allows to play FreeSpace in YOUR Language.

Is one of my releases broken or not working? Please send a PM here, on Discord at @novachen or on Twitter @NovachenFS2, a public tweet or write a reply in my own release threads here on HLP, because these are the only threads i am still participating in.