Hard Light Productions Forums
Community Projects => The FreeSpace Upgrade Project => Topic started by: Hades on November 25, 2010, 11:24:40 am
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I stated this project after trying to create the concept Medusa. Well I failed at that, and it came out better as a new Medusa HTL.
(http://filesmelt.com/dl/beheadedmedusa.jpg)
And yeah, some parts bug me as-is, like the connections to the hull from the missile pods. But I'll work those out.
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Don't we already have an HTL Medusa?
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That's probably why Hades said "new Medusa HTL".
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We do.
Maybe you could make a few modifications and turn this into a HTL Gorgon, from Awakenings? It's a pre-FS1 medium bomber which used the Medusa mesh back in the day.
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(http://filesmelt.com/dl/compairson.jpg)
Well, considering the current HTL looks almost exactly the same as the retail model with some more detail added, I thought it could use an update too
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lvlshot FTW!
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IMO the problem is the horrid texture, not the model. The one we're using is still 512x512 IIRC. Some fighters/bombers have high-res textures in mv_advanced; the Medusa doesn't.
[EDIT] Actually, resizing the original map (from FS1) to 1024x1024 (since it's not a power of 2 originally) and using it instead is an improvement but the texture still needs work (actually, with the good texture the normal map looks bad, since it's just a bunch of lines).
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Yes, the texture is what need an update, though the model itself is also old.
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(http://filesmelt.com/dl/somepics.jpg)
Ignore the fins on the back and the exhaust thing on the bottom, the fins aren't done and the thing on the bottom is being redone.
Also, keep in mind that much of the detailing I'm planning to do isn't modeled yet, before do that I'm gonna be fixing up parts already present and doing the head.
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I support a new Medusa. The old one is great, but a new one would be very refreshing, and this one looks highly promising so far. ;7
I also agree that a new texture is needed; The old one does feel very retail, and not on par with most bombers.
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There's some interesting curves going on in your new model, Hades, but I don't think you need a complete re-model of the Medusa here. That said, no one's going to stop you from modeling it, but I don't think the route you're taking is the best. If the Medusa really needed more detail, the best thing to do at this stage would be to grab the current HTL model and really ramp up the detail - from that point, you could create normal maps of superior quality.
With regards to the Gorgon, that was actually one of my oldest projects, and I've even posted some write-ups on the subject of Cardinal Spear's bomber in the past. If you'd be interested in working on that, I could make an attempt at some point to work on getting some proper artwork posted. Keep in mind that along with my prior offer on the Hermes, I'm quite busy with my own affairs, so that might have to wait for a while.
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There's some interesting curves going on in your new model, Hades, but I don't think you need a complete re-model of the Medusa here. That said, no one's going to stop you from modeling it, but I don't think the route you're taking is the best. If the Medusa really needed more detail, the best thing to do at this stage would be to grab the current HTL model and really ramp up the detail - from that point, you could create normal maps of superior quality.
That's pretty damned silly, considering that A) that's exactly how the current HTL model was created, and B) that's being lazy and pretty uncreative. Detail alone does not a good HTL make.
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Looking mighty fine there!
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It's not going to look worse than the current HTL, so I think that it should be continued.
In fact, finished parts already look much better than on the old model.
Making normal maps for a model that's already done isn't going to achieve such effect as having both new model and new normals.
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There's some interesting curves going on in your new model, Hades, but I don't think you need a complete re-model of the Medusa here. That said, no one's going to stop you from modeling it, but I don't think the route you're taking is the best. If the Medusa really needed more detail, the best thing to do at this stage would be to grab the current HTL model and really ramp up the detail - from that point, you could create normal maps of superior quality.
That's pretty damned silly, considering that A) that's exactly how the current HTL model was created, and B) that's being lazy and pretty uncreative. Detail alone does not a good HTL make.
:doubt:
Well, whatever Hades. I understand why you take offense to that statement, and it's fine you do. This is your model, and I know you've worked hard on it. However, I support the older HTL model in many respects as it stays true to form with respect to the spirit of Volition's original model. It's possible some areas are lacking in that regard, but nevertheless it is the Medusa through and through. The areas I see which do not reflect the Medusa design in your model stand out right away: the engine vector flaps, the asymmetrical weapons pods, and the somewhat senseless greebling connecting them with the fuselage. If this insight is useful, then by all means we ought to discuss it.
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Well, whatever Hades. I understand why you take offense to that statement, and it's fine you do. This is your model, and I know you've worked hard on it. However, I support the older HTL model in many respects as it stays true to form with respect to the spirit of Volition's original model. It's possible some areas are lacking in that regard, but nevertheless it is the Medusa through and through. The areas I see which do not reflect the Medusa design in your model stand out right away: the engine vector flaps, the asymmetrical weapons pods, and the somewhat senseless greebling connecting them with the fuselage. If this insight is useful, then by all means we ought to discuss it.
First off, it's not because it's my model I take offense to that statement, but it's the fact that just adding detail to the old meshes won't make good HTLs, considering that's how the HTL medusa we have now was done.
The fins are, as said, not finished as are the connections to the missile pods (which aren't asymetrical, I tested a new attachment on one and left the other unchanged).
And take a good look at the attachment from the pods to the hull on the htl, it looks so frail that single shot would take it out (let alone sitting like we see it sit in the Bastion mainhall would cause them to break). The design takes a good amount of elements from the concept art, which was also already stated.
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If anything, the new Medusa mesh looks a little too high quality (I don't mean too high poly). I felt that the Medusa always had a vibe of a trashed-up, cheap bomber. It looked like a dented tin can, and sure survived like one. The new one looks like something fresh from Triton Dynamics.
(Then again, the Herc I looks substantially cleaner and less Made-in-China with its MVP version, so it might just be my neophobia talking.)
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If anything, the new Medusa mesh looks a little too high quality (I don't mean too high poly). I felt that the Medusa always had a vibe of a trashed-up, cheap bomber. It looked like a dented tin can, and sure survived like one. The new one looks like something fresh from Triton Dynamics.
Considering the Medusa was designed and entered active service around mid-great war...
(http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/images/Medusa.png)
Also
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All right, reviewing the above comparisons, the current HTL is ****. I'd slightly rather have something done from scratch, but I don't think this is a bad use of time at all.
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I suppose weathering etc is a job for the texture, not the model itself.
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All right, reviewing the above comparisons, the current HTL is ****. I'd slightly rather have something done from scratch, but I don't think this is a bad use of time at all.
Again, I'm going to disagree with this. Here's a render of the Medusa, the current HTL model, which shows off the shape, albeit in a slightly stylized fashion:
(http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1parrkoBpyDRt-jtOV9r1z2OmuBQSL1uuzC8kF3FbPZJ1CBnu3sZnq07iZI0xLP8k9jbXAb_Ej7H3F5D4qsNAVjQ/GTB%20Medusa.jpg?psid=1)
Are there some parts which could be better worked out? Sure. But the detail is all there. The model looks bad as when it was finished, lighting and texture issues, especially texture issues, make it look bad. What this model needs is an overhaul in the texture department, and perhaps the lighting department as well. Unfortunately, I can't do all that much in either. However, the geometry itself still stands up pretty well.
About the weapon pod mounting? That's a valid issue. The current model seems to have been designed with the thought that ordnance would be transferred to the pods from a central fuselage magazine, and this makes sense. What doesn't make sense is the exposure of the weapons and apparent weakness of the mounting. That said, good call. What you should not devaite from, however, is the design of the pods themselves, which very faithfully matches the original design.
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I'm going to bet that whatever Hades is doing will turn out better than the current thing. Looking forward to more WIPs.
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Geez, that Medusa looks sharp enough to slice any pilot's arms off anyway.
And I used the concept art's shape for the pods because I felt they were much more pleasing, not to mention the ship actually sits on them well.
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I am really trying and failing to understand how this thread got to having such a hostile tone.
Firstly who created the original HTL and who on FSU decided include it in MVP because their input would be vital in any discussion about its inclusion.
Secondly and more importantly it was only after others brought up the existing HTL did Hades start talking about it, from what I can read this model started as a personal experiment which he has started posting progress on. Why not just let him finish it, provide constructive criticism along the way and chuck it on FreeSpaceMods.net when finished, discussions on its inclusion in MVP is a separate issue to the models development and can happen at any point between now and 3.6.14 MVP release. If we are not on about its inclusion in MVP then why are we talking about the existing HTL other than as a reference to where Hade's model can be improved?
And talking about criticism of Hade's handiwork
1. I prefer the left missile pod mount as you look at it compared to the right hand one as shown in the top right view.
2. As a suggestion if you are not already thinking about it I would partially model the missile tubes shown in the textures unless you are going to use show model on the missile banks.
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Yeah, I've spent more of the day responding to this silliness than working on the model. :\
1. I prefer the left missile pod mount as you look at it compared to the right hand one as shown in the top right view.
2. As a suggestion if you are not already thinking about it I would partially model the missile tubes shown in the textures unless you are going to use show model on the missile banks.
1. Left when looking from the front or from the back?
2. I'm gonna model them but... the 'show model' idea isn't that bad of one.
And to Thaeris;
(http://filesmelt.com/dl/dealwithit.jpg)
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Would it mean Cyclops and other heavy bombs poping out of the pods and not just spawning through them ?
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Note Hades, that I'm merely making comments on the design and attempting to be constructive in that criticism. I've made my opinions noted for the time being, and I feel my opinions are fairly well based.
Those opinions of course should not cause you to cease in your efforts.
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I have oodles of hate for your interpretation of the exhaust deflectors.
But I will deal with it.
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Yeah, I've spent more of the day responding to this silliness than working on the model. :\
Hi. We're the goddamn end users, and if you want this model to be used for anything you will listen to our goddamn opinions.
(http://filesmelt.com/dl/dealwithit.jpg) YOURSELF.
:P
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I think you missed the parts where someone suggested something and I agreed to do it if I liked the idea. I will not, however, change my model for any suggestion, ones that I like or do not like, for I am a man, who thinks for himself. I'm not a machine to put orders into.
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I am a man, who thinks for himself.
Or so you would like to believe.
Is there really such thing as free will?
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There is only free will in those who will it.
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omg, i love that movie!
(http://watchmojo.com/gambling/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/free-willy1.jpg)
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Never seen that movie, what's it called?
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Free Willy.
It was pretty moving when I saw it... I don't know how long ago.
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Semi-on-topic: **** the haters, this new model is better.
If someone's making a better version of something (even if it isn't better by a huge margin), does it make sense to reject it? That's like rejecting a real Coca-Cola for a storebought clone cola that's *almost* as good as the real thing, because it costs a few cents extra or one has shinier packaging or something stupid like that.
Point being, there's no reason to hate on this model. It's better than what we have, and if Hades is putting forth the effort, we might as well
(http://filesmelt.com/dl/dealwithit.jpg)
and we might as well shut the **** up.
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Yes yes fine, this one's better.
Just seems like its not the most productive thing to do seeing as like...all the shivan fighters have no love.
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Maybe you could make a few modifications and turn this into a HTL Gorgon, from Awakenings? It's a pre-FS1 medium bomber which used the Medusa mesh back in the day.
I too would love you for this. . .although wasn't it from Cardinal Spear?
A gorgon version would also give you room to really play with the mesh more without worrying about changing the character of the Medusa.
I'm all for a semi-competitive HTL community. If you can make it better, make it better. We did this for the Orion and got a few good models out of it.
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Yes yes fine, this one's better.
Just seems like its not the most productive thing to do seeing as like...all the shivan fighters have no love.
That's sort of the main point that gave me pause at this. I mean, everyone's obviously free to model whatever the hell they want whenever they want to, and I have no right to tell anyone what they should be working on unless I can put up myself, which I can't...but there are still a number of retail models that still look exactly the same as they did when FS2 was released, and I'd love to see effort focused on them too, preferably before people concern themselves with upgrading the upgrades.
This isn't saying anything at all about your work on this, Hades, since it does look awesome. I just hope that someone else comes along and decides to tackle one of the retail models that hasn't even been touched yet.
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do we have a list some where of non upgraded models?
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yes we kinda do have one.. or had one.
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=53969.0
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Shivan fighters are extremely hard to model, just going to leave it at that.
So, Hades, any progress?
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(http://filesmelt.com/dl/damedusa.png)
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Blocked. What. :blah:
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I used filesmelt to host it, I'll reupload it to photobucket.
(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm56/HLPHades/damedusa.png)
I'd like to mention that there is stil no head and the engines were removed because I wasn't happy with them, so I'm gonna redo those too
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Looks good so far.
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looks good. the thrusters are beveled in the front though.
also, forget about see through cockpits. save some polygons and just make the cockpit a gold reflective glass/metal like those instruments they have on armored vehicles.
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no cockpit you say? Why my dear sir, you must be mad!
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See through cockpits haven't been an issue for previous HTL models and won't be an issue here.
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All right, reviewing the above comparisons, the current HTL is ****. I'd slightly rather have something done from scratch, but I don't think this is a bad use of time at all.
Are there some parts which could be better worked out? Sure. But the detail is all there. The model looks bad as when it was finished, lighting and texture issues, especially texture issues, make it look bad. What this model needs is an overhaul in the texture department, and perhaps the lighting department as well. Unfortunately, I can't do all that much in either. However, the geometry itself still stands up pretty well.
I'd like to mention that it doesn't matter how it looks without textures, it only matters how it looks with textures, since we'll never see the ships without textures in-game.
Also, if you're gonna make a render showing off the detail on a model you might not want to make it so dark/shadowed that you can barely see the ship itself...
As for cockpits, I dunno, I've never modeled one, and I'm not so sure I should add one unless it is actually good enough to use by the player (otherwise, why have a cockpit?)
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The existing model has a see-through canopy, so this one should as well.
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(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm56/HLPHades/missilepod.png)
Thoughts?
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Hm, pretty damn awesome maybe?
The pods look like they can be attachted to the Medusa. Really cool when you think of its handling inside a hangar bay (detach the rocket pods so they safe space or for repairs etc).
I hope you can still see all of the details when the texture is on these (is it a bare silver metal texture there or are wing-logos going on those sides as well?)
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Thanks. :)
As for seeing all the detail, you likely will be able to considering the way they're done and UVMaps are a lot better about this. Were the current MVP Orion uvmapped it might look less like a formless brick. There's a part I'm thinking of having a nameplate for (similar to fighters/vehcles in Halo and BSG) which I'm also doing on the Hermes. And yes, there will be insignia, not completely sure where yet, but I think on the side above the three-striped side.
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The older pods are still truer to form design-wise, with the exception of the fuselage mounting. By default, I have to side with those on that ground. More greebles does not always equal better detail - those ribs that break up the outer pod structure are a good example of that. The current Medusa model does a very good job of placing indentations in the launcher system and vents at their proper points.
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The older pods are still truer to form design-wise, with the exception of the fuselage mounting. By default, I have to side with those on that ground. More greebles does not always equal better detail - those ribs that break up the outer pod structure are a good example of that. The current Medusa model does a very good job of placing indentations in the launcher system and vents at their proper points.
(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm56/HLPHades/ImageMacros/no.gif)
It's a shame you actually can't see any of that detail added in the current model.
anyway, since this seems hard to get I'm going to try saying it differently
I make high-poly models of old game models not to make it look almost identical and have a larger amount of polygons, I make a high-poly model that looks different and yet has all the old parts we all know and love. Why would I waste my time on a model which in-game looks almost identical? It's like painting brick red, there's no damned need of it.
Bottom line is, I made a high-poly mesh to be an upgrade, not keep the old geometry which Volition wouldn't have likely kept to either.
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I'm with Hades on this, I think there is a mistaken (in my view at least) view which is kinda common in the community that HTL should just improve the quality of the model (Bump mapping, more polyies etc) without improving the quality of the modelling to make those extra polies do more work, to bring out more details and greebles... I'm not wording this very well, I know, because I'm sleep deprived (about 6 hours in the past 3 days...).
Bah.. too little sleep to accurately convey my meaning.
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i'm battuta, and i'm a hades
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(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm56/HLPHades/engine.png)
note, those two engine flaps are not final, will be redone.
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Redone?
Ok, but FYI they look good.
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Dislike how thin the engine flap things are. Otherwise, good.
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I agree, the progress you have so far is beast.
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Looks awesome.
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I'm really looking forward to this. Great work so far.
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Will they move when you engage thrusters? I mean the Medusa isn't very fast but it would make it look faster if they nestle to the Medusa :P
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Dislike how thin the engine flap things are. Otherwise, good.
They're not even close to be final, just there for representation on the model.
And yes, the idea was for them to move like the flaps on the Horus do, they'd normally be sticking 'up' (more like near a 45 degree angle) and move down when it hits the afterburner.
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That would be pretty cool.
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Alright, so I broke up the two parts of the engine in the back, should I go for something more like
(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm56/HLPHades/HTL%20Medusa/enginebreak1.png)
Or like
(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm56/HLPHades/HTL%20Medusa/enginebreak2.png)
Also, the body's likely going to be completely redone as well because frankly I don't like it
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Looks good to me.
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Looks good to me.
Look at the engine, specifically the back, there's a bit of a difference, which one of the two do you think is better?
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I'd say the first one, but either looks good to me
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Hmm, first one - with moar pipes Igor!
Specifically more details in the area of the texture that shows a recessed mechanical region in about the middle of the engines (viewed from top) - model in those mechanical bits at least to some degree and you shall win! :D
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Voting for the first as well, seems to make the target profile of the Medusa smaller which might be better when making the shield mesh.
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I'd go with the first one as well, your work is turning out real well.
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Yup. The engines seem to stick better together in the first one. And the challenge of aircraft-creation was always keeping the final design as compact as possible without loss in effectivity (to give you a reason here :P )
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+1 for first variation.
Looking fantastic.
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(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm56/HLPHades/HTL%20Medusa/podpipes.png)
Went with the first variation also I put some pipes (VA loves his pipes, man) and it's H for Hades. ;0
That hexagonal thing which is sticking out is to represent the connector, not done yet.
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Not a modeller but don't you think that could be done better with normal mappen?
Is looks good anyway.
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It's close yeah but nah I'd say that detail is best done with geometry because it looks quite different from different angles. Normal maps would make it too rounded and non-specific in this case.
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Cool then. Looks very awesome.
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(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm56/HLPHades/HTL%20Medusa/medusaturretnstuff-1.png)
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is it just me or did your medusa get fatter around the middle looks chubby
might just be the curvedness though but it looks...fatter than the other one by a fair margin
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The main body's just there to indicate where it is, I'm going to redo that section next.
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Oh ok. Turrentz be kewl tho.
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(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm56/HLPHades/HTL%20Medusa/dattop.png)
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Beautiful. Please, do go on.
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That is a very cool turret mount and turret. :)
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(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm56/HLPHades/HTL%20Medusa/newmedusa.png)
Engine flaps are next, right after I finish detailing the main body and head. Also, the chin's gonna be modified some thanks to criticism from Zacam.
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I think that's coming together smashingly.
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Awesum.
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Hades if you don't add a cockpit to this sweetie i will :nod:
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(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm56/HLPHades/HTL%20Medusa/medusatop2.png)
The two circles closest to the center are maneuvering cones.
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Not sure I like the pipes in the neck, but I don't hate them.
Are you keeping the squarish cockpit shape? Because it would suck if you lost that :(
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Not sure I like the pipes in the neck, but I don't hate them.
Are you keeping the squarish cockpit shape? Because it would suck if you lost that :(
Those aren't pipes! They're merely cylindrical detail! :p
And no, the cockpit was rounded, but not by much
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Round? :(
I always liked the appeal of the sharp angular cockpit. It was reminiscent of the Apache helicopter canopy.
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What are those pipes for?
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(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm56/HLPHades/HTL%20Medusa/mnose.png)
those pipes are for, uh, well **** I dunno I guess to move oxygen to the cockpit
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Gotta agree with Kolgena on this... I think V could have spared a few polies to round off the cockpit if they'd wanted to - see the Uly - and in this case, the angular cockpit would look cooler, IMO.
Your model of course, but... yeah.
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Oh no, please don't :C
That's one of the things I love about the Medusa, it's blocky cockpit.
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I'd personally opt for the standard angular cockpit as well.
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i agree.
but since the ´rest of the ship has a rather smooth appearance, i'd say make the canopy blocky, and the cockpit smooth-ish to go well, with the rest of the ship.
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I'm not a fan of the curved cockpit
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I always thought of the Medusa with a WWII style bomber cockpit. If you retain that feeling, whether sharp or smooth, I will love your version.
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(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm56/HLPHades/HTL%20Medusa/medusead.png)
How's this?
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I like it a lot. In regards to the pipes, from the top down view, they really give the impression that there's an internal superstructure holding the ship together. :yes:
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I think that's a good compromise, as going fully angled would clash with the beveled/chamfered look of the rest of the ship.
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Thanks.
What can I say? I hate sharp edges. :p
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Wouldn't want to cut yourself on the cockpit while climbing in :P
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That is sexy :yes:
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If you check out the old version, you'll see the co-pilot is not in line with the first one, is like there's a step between the two.
This is not so that obvious in your version, if you could make the first part of the canopy go a little tad lower.. I would be happier :p
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It is actually slanted the same as the current's cockpit but due to the way the next doesn't slant as high makes it look less slanted
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I think you should slant the front part of the canopy a bit more, right now, it looks like a pilot won't have a good field of view.
That's important especially for people who play with cockpits.
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If I slant the front bar anymore the pilot won't be able to see a damned thing, frankly.
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put eyepoint @ front guy. problem solved.
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(http://filesmelt.com/dl/meducompare.png)
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Ok, that picture makes it look better.
Good looking ship :yes: :yes:
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(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm56/HLPHades/HTL%20Medusa/medusafront.png)
From the front, and yes kiddies, those are real missiles with nukular-power!
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Impressive. Most impressive.
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My favourite ship just got an awesome HTL. I'm in love (with that model)
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I like the current cockpit now. Keeps the original's feel quite nicely.
I'm not sure I like the pipes in the neck. It's not a greeble that makes sense to me.
Aside from that, the thing is dripping with awesome. You should remake the Ursa like this as well. *nudge*
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I see a pipe, singular.
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Actually, if you filled the gaps with more, smaller pipes, it might look better. I think that there's just too much "stuff" that got taken out of the cut-outs. The holes look a bit too deep.
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My favourite ship just got an awesome HTL. I'm in love (with that model)
What, no love for me? ;7
Actually, if you filled the gaps with more, smaller pipes, it might look better. I think that there's just too much "stuff" that got taken out of the cut-outs. The holes look a bit too deep.
What exactly do you mean? Can you MSPaint circles around these areas or something
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The good ol' workhouse of the Terran bomber fleet looks mighty fine :D
Since the model is looking good, I'm wondering about those textures -- Anyone thinking of trying to revitalize the textures? Because I remember some decent ones in the old INFA release that might help.
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I'm hoping I can find someone to make completely new textures, though...
Any fighter or bomber which is made high-poly will always need a new texture, because the old ones are made for flat surfaces and will not work with the added detail (especially not if the detail isn't from the texture) which is why most HTL fighters/bombers which use the old textures seem to 'lose' some of their modeled detail in the process.
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Impressive. Most impressive.
It most certainly is. This thing will look awesome once its finished.
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Actually, if you filled the gaps with more, smaller pipes, it might look better. I think that there's just too much "stuff" that got taken out of the cut-outs. The holes look a bit too deep.
What exactly do you mean? Can you MSPaint circles around these areas or something
Nevermind. I was trying to figure out what I meant, and it didn't make sense to me why it would look better. A good texture/normal map on the singular pipe in the neck that you have now would look fine.
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I'm hoping I can find someone to make completely new textures, though...
I was afraid of that... :(
Has anyone specific expressed interest? If not, we could be here awhile, I fear. Which is a shame, because this has turned out much better than I expected.
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(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm56/HLPHades/HTL%20Medusa/threemedusaheads.png)
Is the new one better? Note, that's not the final cockpit, just to show the shape and windows and crap
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Now that's more like it, nice work :yes:
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That is perfect. If possible, I think a slightly smoother nose cone might be in order, but the cockpit is perfect.
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(http://filesmelt.com/dl/medusavew.png)
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hades, i dare say it is possible that all that whining about concept art actually led to something productive
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battuta, i dare say... that was a low blow. :(
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i'm giving you a compliment here, man
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I'm actually afraid that textures are gonna make some of the great details invisible :( *sacrifices a pig to Hades, the god of models*
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hey that's actually kind of 1337
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(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm56/HLPHades/HTL%20Medusa/cutelilthing.png)
you guys may call this silly but I call it good fun
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The lower one looks like something pirates could make out of derelict Medusa.
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I think it's good for the uglies pack :P
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The bad news is that the Inferno team might be interested in such a model...
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You know, if you lengthened it a little bit and raised the missile pods to the point that they have only a slight anhedral, that could actually usable. Perhaps give it a wider engine block. Of course, the turrets would be excessive for such a smaller bomber, so they'd need to be removed.
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Turrets could stay, but I think that the engine block could be longer.
Remember, never enuff dakka. :)
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Captain Iwakura's backup bomber.
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LOL
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Surface on the rear of the fuselage looks a bit plain. I think it needs more than a clean-cut plane.
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Surface on the rear of the fuselage looks a bit plain. I think it needs more than a clean-cut plane.
It's plain becuase I haven't done much there yet, or on the bottom and head in general.
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Oh. I thought the mesh was done already :P
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(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm56/HLPHades/HTL%20Medusa/medusass.png)
dat ass
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(http://filesmelt.com/dl/medusaview2.png)
some updates, notably the sides between the engine and missile pods, for instance
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dat ass
unf
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I'm liking this very much, but I was wondering what that hole under the cockpit was.
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... but I was wondering what that hole under the cockpit was.
Scuttle
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it's an intake! partially because I was going to have nose art put there (mainly teeth like on the Loki, baby's gotta have teeth) and it'd probably work better with an intake.
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I thought it was a sensor apparatus, like the loki, since intakes make 0 sense.
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Looking great, if I could make but one suggestion it would be to loose the holes in the stabilizer fins. They have a great shape on their own and would add to the more bad ass tough look without the holes.
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it's an intake! partially because I was going to have nose art put there (mainly teeth like on the Loki, baby's gotta have teeth) and it'd probably work better with an intake.
You mean you're not going to recreate the original textures?
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lrn2lvlshot
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it's an intake! partially because I was going to have nose art put there (mainly teeth like on the Loki, baby's gotta have teeth) and it'd probably work better with an intake.
You mean you're not going to recreate the original textures?
Trying to make textures that follow the old ones to the letter and trying to put it on a model that doesn't is silly, of course the texture's going to be different somewhat but still recognizable as the Medusa's.
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I'm not asking you to 100% recreate the textures, I'm just not so sure about adding random stuff to it. Maybe as a reskin version in the spirit of your pimp Hermes, but not for the standard model.
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I'm not asking you to 100% recreate the textures, I'm just not so sure about adding random stuff to it. Maybe as a reskin version in the spirit of your pimp Hermes, but not for the standard model.
Stuff like noseart and the fighter nameplate (in all intents and purposes are like the names on vehicles/ships in Halo or on Vipers or Raptors in BSG) will be handled using RTT anyway, so it's no biggie.
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mainly teeth like on the Loki, baby's gotta have teeth
I hate that!
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I dunno about a shark's mouth, thats more of a fighter thing IMHO. I tend to think bombers deserve a pin-up girl draped on ordinance and a clever name.
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Like I said, that'd be handled using RTT so default, it'd be 'blank' and the FREDDer can assign the nose art to be used.
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Um I don't think that's RTT, that's texture replacement
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Actually VA was talking to me about how RTT could be used to have nameplates while not having the polygon dedicated to it or the diffuse by using RTT, you'd specify a place on the texture and you could put whatever you want there (came up when talking about the bomber nameplate). May not work for something like nose art but I sorta leapt to conclusions I guess.
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I dunno about a shark's mouth, thats more of a fighter thing IMHO. I tend to think bombers deserve a pin-up girl draped on ordinance and a clever name.
Well I wouldn't really like to see those on a Medusa. Let's keep the texture clean. :)
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I'm with Mobius on this one.
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I actually also agree with Mobius
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I wanna see wings of pinup girls flying through space :P
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Well then you can add that to your game but not everyone wants that on the stock MediaVP model.
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I think Titan meant actual pinup girls, not just images of them on ships. :p
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Well then you can add that to your game but not everyone wants that on the stock MediaVP model.
I'm inclined to agree with Snail on this one. If you want to make it an optional add-on I have no quarrel with that. However, they should not be included in the standard Mediavps files.
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Ya'll are worrying too much about that one little detail.
At the current moment, the engine doesn't even support the feature notion that Hades is suggesting.
And the re-texture of this model will carry the same visual elements of the existing Medusa in terms of coloration and what not.
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Sorry for the lack of updates, folks I sent it off to VA so he could do his modeling magic on mainly the cockpit (gave him free roam to do his magic on anything he wanted to), but I would like to sow the difference between the two versions:
First version, posted on November the 25th;
(http://filesmelt.com/dl/somepics.jpg)
Second version, posted on New Year's Eve;
(http://filesmelt.com/dl/medusaview2.png)
I was astounded when I noticed this huge quality increase in little over a month.
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That is some kind of bad ass! Great work! :yes:
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I first thought it would be kind of redundant to improve the Medusa (again). But now I'm totally convinced that it was necessary and absolutely worth it :nod:
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Very, very awesome!
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Sweet Apollo, that is absolutely awesome!
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It's making an ":O" face :D
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LOL I can't stop seeing it now :p
Heh, anyone expecting anything less than incredible from VA is underestimating him ;)
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Woah woah woah, hold on... I noticed that m wording in the first post was rather poor, both versions are 100% my work, and that I sent off the Medusa to VA after the second version picture, just to make sure no one misinterpreted it. It'll likely be 1000x times better when VA is done with it, though.
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Either way, good stuff, even with the :O face ;)
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This is definitely an improvement. I'm glad you kept going with it.
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This will make a fine addition to the mediavps.
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$Praise: YES
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Hades is a super cool breh
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Finally get a chance to see the progress! HOLY ****. :eek2:
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Thanks. :)
VA is just about done with the work he's done on it so as soon as I get it back from him I'll post an updated picture.
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And here they are, thanks to VA for his awesome work and renders. ;)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Medusa/Medusa1.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Medusa/Medusa2.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Medusa/Medusa3.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Medusa/Medusa4.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Medusa/Medusa5.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Medusa/Medusa6.jpg)
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HOLY CRAP! That looks Awesome! :yes:
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****, that looks really awesome.
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All the crying about the model being OK on the beginning of this thread looks kinda pathetic right now, as my eyeballs refuse to let go of the screen :yes:
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makes me REALLY want to fly that... such beautiful details... ^^ Really looking forward to seeing this textured. :P
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(http://www.my619.com/assets/templates/my619/layout/404/zomg.jpg)
This is so awesome :shaking: :shaking:
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I keep worrying that some of those details are going to hide details on the texture. but meh. It's awesome anyway. :yes:
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Something tells me a whole new texture is in order here. Why wouldn't you go full tilt boogey and create a texture that fits that model?
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Oh, of course it'll have a new texture, even models like the old Medusa HTL should get one, as the old retail textures were made for flat surfaces as we see on the retail models.
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Given that the MediaVP texture is a travesty and the old FS1 texture still wouldn't go with the new geometry, anything other than a new texture would be a crime against HLPanity.
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I think this singlehandedly makes every previous fighter model upgrade look like crap. :D
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Maybe sometime this year I'll give it some love like I did the Ezechiel, Herk III etc.
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I think this singlehandedly makes every previous fighter model upgrade look like crap. :D
Not quite... the Loki and possibly Zeus have the same level of awesome detailing. But I <3 this Medusa.
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Yeah, they're close, but the Loki has half the (hull, not including cockpit stuff) polycount as the Medsa and the Zeus has about 3 times less than the Medusa.
Thanks for the praise, guys. :)
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Half of these details will get hidden by the texture anyway.
Self-shadowing may be a remedy though.
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i could ride that thing's ion wash all day.
good job Hades.
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Half of these details will get hidden by the texture anyway.
Self-shadowing may be a remedy though.
Actually, if it has a good new texture made for it, that won't be a problem. The main reason fighters/bombers like the seraphim lose detail when textured is because they use the old, low rez retail maps which are made for flat surfaces. Since a new texture will be made (and I have some ideas for how to make details a bit more noticeable), it can have an OA bake, etc as well, which helps.
i could ride that thing's ion wash all day.
good job Hades.
Thanks.
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Um, that's not what I was expecting to see. Holy crap it looks good. It's so chunky and rugged, almost like it thinks it has more HP than an Ursa. Hoping that the AO bake will keep most of the details visible.
It's kinda interesting that we have different generations of models going on. This Medusa, the Cain/Lilith, the Hattie, the Colossus, all look so good that it almost merits a redo of some of the older ships like the Orion, Zeus, etc.
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Words... can't describe... should've sent... Alpha 1...
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I'm not quite sure why this was locked?
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Let's keep THIS thread on the topic of the Medusa, kplsthxbai.
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Actually, people were still giving their opinion on the Medusa only 2 posts before it was locked, but yes, there was a small side-discussion going on.
Tell you what, I'm going to split this into two threads, that should keep everyone happy.
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Already done.
Hence why I locked it to keep post creep from happening.
It's unlocked now.
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Fair 'nuff :)
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Looks like the engine will fall apart after a few hits with those pipes(?) visible from the outside...
But I don't care, looks amazing! Hope the textures really help in brings out the details.
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Those pipes are very similar to the ones visible on the sides of the Herc. They don't look fragile there, and given the similar era, I think they fit perfectly well on the Med.
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Vasudan Admiral, inflicting Death by Polygon since 2006 ;)
Awesome work, both of you :)
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Trying to express feelings through words here is utterly futile, so I'll just say, yeah. Nice.
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Hades, it might be late to suggest this, but I think it's worth the suggestion.
I once asked mjnmixael if he'd consider making the canopy open in a similar fashion to that of a helicopter door; this suggestion was well recieved, but it came in too late to affect the render. Certainly, the canopy actuation is nothing important for the in-game model, but it would make more sense should any future renders need an operable canopy. In short, that canopy is too big, thick, and heavy to make sense opening up like that. Instead, it should have entry/exit ports similar to those seen on attack helicopters such as the AH-1 and the AH-64, etc.
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Trying to express feelings through words here is utterly futile, so I'll just say, yeah. Nice.
Uh...yeah. I literally shouted "HOLY ****!" when I saw the newest model.
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dayum! That's some good stuff!
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Damn that is sweet and hard to top. Don't know if VA himself could do better even though I know he had a hand in it but it does certainly inspire the rest of us to strive for more. Was going to show off my Nephilim at the beginning of the year but this makes me want to refine it more before posting. You sir deserve mad props, at least that's how I think the saying goes. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Vasudan Admiral, inflicting Death by Polygon since 2006 ;)
That should seriously be his title, I know of no other that would deserve it more.
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Thanks! I wouldn't be so sure VA couldn't do better than me, though. ;)
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Vasudan Admiral, inflicting Death by Polygon since 2006 ;)
That should seriously be his title, I know of no other that would deserve it more.
Steve-O or the author of Stratcomm's fleet pack, maybe?
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Well not entirely, the ships from Steve-O we see have awful texture usage and poor modeling, it's not really the same thing.
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Yeah, Steve-O is the one inflicting death by texture usage. Shoot the intelgrated for massive damage !
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I've managed to get a good UVMapper for this (Everyone applaud for peterv) and a possible texturing candidate (possibly applaud for RgaNors) so it won't be too long before it gets into game, hopefully! :)
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Yaaaaay~
:D
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:pimp:
(http://img852.imageshack.us/img852/6080/watsdis.jpg)
(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/1765/beenbusy.jpg)
(http://img859.imageshack.us/img859/3581/making.jpg)
(http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/2450/awonderful.jpg)
(http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/219/texturefora.jpg)
(http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/1916/medusa.jpg)
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omfg epic awesome pwnage leet hax
one small thing I noticed was that the texture isn't darkened inside the normal map grooves, which usually makes the panelling look much better, but other than that omg
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that's pretty bamf Dusa.
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Great job! But what about all the non-manifoldness the last time I opened the mesh?
-R
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Great job! But what about all the non-manifoldness the last time I opened the mesh?
-R
what about it?
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Nothing; I just have a strong bias against non-manifold meshes and avoid them like the plague. Personal preference.
-R
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What? When did you...
Dammit, I wanna learn to texture like that.
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/low whistle.
(But wasn't the Medusa green, not blue?)
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YESYESYES UNFUNFUNF
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Dayum! I hope everything in FS will one day look like that. Even if it rapes my computer.
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That's amazing! I think I've acquired a new love for the Medusa now. :P
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That is awesome, good work
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It almost looks like a Transformer with all these details :lol:
Astonishing work :yes:
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Erm...It's a good texture... but it looks nothing like the Medusa. At all. You've just... gone in completely and utterly the wrong direction. I'm sorry, but there it is.
Maybe it works as a DH variant of the Medusa? But the standard bomber, no. Totally wrong.
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Yeah...I hate to say it, but I agree with Black Wolf. The texture looks awesome, but that color scheme doesn't make me think "Medusa" in the least. There's far too much gray, the main body color is far closer to teal than light green, and it's missing the cool reddish-brown highlights on the engine intakes.
Note that none of this applies if you're not actually done with the texture. :p
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I personally like the blue better than the Green, and I think the colors do not matter too much as long as it looks better.
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I agree with Black Wolf and Mongoose. This model looks fantastic as it is, but I think you should keep the colour scheme closer to the original ship. This one would make a fine Medusa D.H., though, like Wolf said.
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What.
I'm sorry, but I'm looking right at a high-poly Medusa.
It's right in front of my ****ing face.
It might be textured differently.
But it's still a ****ing Medusa.
It looks incomplete though, which it might be, in which the progress is good nonetheless.
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Huh, yeah, I think this texture has gone in the wrong direction.
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The main hull colour is a bit off, but I don't think that's big enough of an issue to warrant a change imho. To each his own, but I'm fine with this model. Looks brilliant.
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The main hull colour is a bit off, but I don't think that's big enough of an issue to warrant a change imho. To each his own, but I'm fine with this model. Looks brilliant.
Everyone is fine with the model, the differences are only concerning the texture. :p
Seriously, I think at least the reddish on the engines should be kept. :)
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Well it just surprises me because this texture makes a model with interesting geometry look boring. It doesn't work with the mesh, it works against it.
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The main hull colour is a bit off, but I don't think that's big enough of an issue to warrant a change imho. To each his own, but I'm fine with this model. Looks brilliant.
Everyone is fine with the model, the differences are only concerning the texture. :p
Damn you, terminology.
Well it just surprises me because this texture makes a model with interesting geometry look boring. It doesn't work with the mesh, it works against it.
Could you elaborate on what you mean? Are we still talking about the colour scheme here? Is there anything specific you're referring to?
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It's too flat and too cold. It doesn't look like a FreeSpace ship or like the original Medusa, for one; it doesn't feel functional because it's too uniform, two; and third, it doesn't seem to provide suggestions of function or to highlight the details on the model.
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And it is fully work-in-progress, and I posted for it responses like these! Thanks.
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And it is fully work-in-progress, and I posted for it responses like these! Thanks.
You are awesome. Thank you for taking these responses into account, and don't take them as any kind of indictment as your prodigious skills.
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Has somebody been playing EVE? That looks like the Gallente color schemes with the light blue and silver.
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I have full faith and confidence in Sab0o's abilities to make a dynamic texture that fits this model. I don't understand all the posts complaining that it's not like the original. Every single one of General Battuta's points can be applied to the original Medusa. It's a flat, boring, washed out texture that should only be used as a general guide.
(http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/images/Gtbmedusa-old.jpg)
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That post was misguided on several levels. Allow me to conduct a postmortem.
I have full faith and confidence in Sab0o's abilities to make a dynamic texture that fits this model.
You're implying here that those who criticize lack this faith, when it's explicitly been expressed.
I don't understand all the posts complaining that it's not like the original.
Here you're introducing a straw man. The complaints are not that it is not like the original, the complaints are that it has deviated too far from the original but does not offer enough reward in return.
Every single one of General Battuta's points can be applied to the original Medusa. It's a flat, boring, washed out texture that should only be used as a general guide.
No they can't. I'll walk you through it.
1. This texture is monochrome. It lacks weathering or wear. Notice the heavy scoring along the front end of the secondary banks on the original texture. This creates the impression that the ship is new, high-tech, sleek, and immaculate, which is a sharp deviation from the McQuarry-esque design of the original. (This is probably in no small part because Sab0o hasn't had the chance to add the weathering yet, but the Boanerges was very lightly weathered, so it's a valid point to raise.)
2. This texture is strongly green-blue and slightly reflective. The original was gray and industrial, with blackened machine areas now modeled in. The general color balance needs to be preserved because it impacts the snap recognizability of the model. Again, see the departure in art styles.
The issue you seem to be having is the mistaken belief that these criticisms somehow reflect criticisms of Sab0o's skills. They do not. They are meant as guidance to improve the texture. Sab0o posted the texture with the (now explicitly stated) hope of receiving such feedback. He has received it. If you have a problem with this process, you seem to lack full faith and confidence in Sab0o's abilities to create a dynamic texture that fits this model, rendering the first sentence of your post questionable.
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Eh, no.
My post was all about me not liking the original Medusa texture and my not understanding why people wouldn't want to deviate from it.
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Eh, no.
My post was all about me not liking the original Medusa texture and my not understanding why people wouldn't want to deviate from it.
And if you still think that's the issue you're not understanding the critiques.
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The original texture sucks monkey balls, drifting away from it is for the better IMO.
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But it's FSU and it's Medusa.
Original texture style should be kept.
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But it's FSU and it's Medusa.
Original texture style should be kept.
I, and I'm sure others in the FSU, disagree. As long as it looks better and at least has striking similarities then I think it's fine, sort of like the medusa model itself.
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I don't really like the textures so far TBH. It doesn't retain the FEEL of the Medusa.
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Agree with Dragon. You should keep textures similar to original Medusa textures. FSU isn't creating new things, only refreshing old, outdated things. Sab0o's textures are good, but they looks too modern to be standard Medusa textures.
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Yeah, like the Hatshesput and Cain / Lilith didn't have any new things like reactor textures or hangarbays you can fly into or extra spikes.
Oh wait.
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True.. but when you look at the HTL Cain, you still think "Cain". The current texture looks great, but it looks more like "Medusa 2" rather than the Medusa.
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Hangar doesn't change the gameplay much and spikes on Lilith and Cain are too small to really be a problem.
Both ships have retained the "feel" of the original (and they did it really well), which is what I'm talking about.
New Medusa indeed looks more like an upgraded version of the ship, it was always an old workhorse and it should stay that way.
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First off, any discussion on the textures which had been showcased on the last page are now outdated, Sab0o is going to be remaking most of it.
I don't really like the textures so far TBH. It doesn't retain the FEEL of the Medusa.
Also, comments like these aren't very helpful, they alert us to an issue, but it's vague and not really telling exactly what the issue happens to be, it's basically saying 'there's an issue' without stating why. Sorry to use you as an example, Mars, I think that you are a fine fellow, just I've seen a lot of these, and it's really starting to grate on my nerves and I'm sure they're no better for people like MjnMixael or Sab0o.
Agree with Dragon. You should keep textures similar to original Medusa textures. FSU isn't creating new things, only refreshing old, outdated things. Sab0o's textures are good, but they looks too modern to be standard Medusa textures.
There's no such thing as 'too modern' when discussing a spacecraft from a game that is set in the future. My mesh really can't be mapped with the same details the old was, for the most part.
Also, we, at the FSU, will do what we see fit, kthnx. This has already been addressed, I don't need anybody else continuing to harp on about it. - Zacam
Yeah, like the Hatshesput and Cain / Lilith didn't have any new things like reactor textures or hangarbays you can fly into or extra spikes.
Oh wait.
Very good point. I was even, at first, against the Cain (Hades, a purist?! Why I never). But looking back? I wish I could take back what I said that was just said to be negative, hateful, and unhelpful. I'd replace it with constructive criticism.
Hangar doesn't change the gameplay much and spikes on Lilith and Cain are too small to really be a problem.
Both ships have retained the "feel" of the original (and they did it really well), which is what I'm talking about.
What does a texture have to do at all with gameplay? Also, the Hatshepsut's Hangarbay does affect gameplay by a fairly large margin, since it makes a huge blind spot inside of the Hatshepsut that can't be defended by its own turrets or AI (because the AI is as dumb as a shoe).
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Guys... let's all just relax. Sab0o already said he is going to keep the feedback in mind as he continues. Let's not forget his work on the Artemis, Artemis D.H, and Boanerges. There were similar posts in both of those threads and yet we all love how they turned out.
So chill out. Sab0o is going to wow us all as usual.
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I don't recall Hattie ever being hostile in main campaign, so it shouldn't matter that it has blind spots that AI can't access.
There's no such thing as 'too modern' when discussing a spacecraft from a game that is set in the future. My mesh really can't be mapped with the same details the old was, for the most part.
You're wrong.
Original Medusa has a rugged, industrial feeling to it. It's how a heavy, millitary bomber designed to get the job done should look. Shiny, high-tech looking texture would just look out of place on the Medusa. It's an old workhorse and it should look like it, like it always did.
Of course, it wouldn't make sense in real life, but FS isn't realistic.
I'm looking forward to the texture remake.
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I like the over all look on the progress. Some more weatherizing and a slight color shift should produce some nice results.
Looking forward to the progress on this.
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Love the new Medusa here! The way it looks now am surprised :v: never added a chin mounted turret as well. It look sturdy enough to carry one.
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That's because the cockpit is based on Eurocopter Tiger, which has an autocannon in there.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/Eurocopter_Tiger_p1230203.jpg)
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I agree with the posts that the original colour scheme should be kept intact, even a simple colour change can have a huge impact to not only the atmosphere but the aesthetics of it all. Imagine if all the fighters had that blue metallic high-tech top of the line feeling to them. It just simply wouldn't be Freespace anymore.
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*Dragon looks at TEV fighters from BP* :)
Well, it wouldn't be Freespace 1 or 2, that's for sure. In fact, take a look how some people criticize BP for featuring new designs that "don't look FreeSpace-y". Imagine what including this aesthetic would cause for FSU.
BTW, I think it's better to be carefull when commenting on this, look what kind of heated discussion such comments started, even it there shouldn't be anything wrong with them (it's kind of funny to watch the it going on in a split, locked thread though). :)
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Imho Medusae should look like they were built from scrap. Remeber the TIME they were built? 14+-3 years of warfare behind both Terrans and Vasudans? I'll be damned if they bothered with shining paint job The ursas that came out after medusae are just plain white for the same reason IMHO. All they needed was to produce them fast enough to blast the shivans/zods to oblivion. For me, the more raw metal it loks the better.
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The Valkyrie is an excellent example of what I think a new FS1 model should look like - and DO take artisitic liberty. I just want the artistic essence of the original preserved. The new Cain FEELS like the original Cain if you will, and the same with the Hatshepsut.
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Just a few things that come to mind.
Hue shifting and colouring is simple as pie. The current texture shows a very excellent baseline level of detail. Adding things such as weathering and heat scouring and adjusting the colouring of different areas to more closely resemble the colours seen in the original is very, very simple compared to the job already done.
The retail texture's colour scheme is mostly neutral grey, with brown or red-ish engine intakes. This is, like said, a simple matter of desaturating the texture and colouring the appropriate parts red-brown.
The colours are, at this point, about the most insignificant thing in the texture I can think of. The more important thing is that I can't see any mapping errors such as seams or overtly stretchy bits. The normal mapping is superb, and overall the detail level in the textures very nicely complements the geometry of the model itself.
As far as appearances are concerned, it is a very good thing to have a non-weathered, clean, "factory new" version of the texture available to the community. The Medusas were not always beaten down worn out pieces of scrap, they must've been new once - have you ever seen photos of how brand new fighter airplanes look like? Even though most people tend to think that stuff like WW2 airplanes have matte painting, they are actually rather shiny when they don't have layers of mud, dust and oil accumulated on the surfaces.
By the way, a clean, de-saturated basic texture available to public will also give an opportunity for the rest of the community to create their own skins for ships, for adding squadron markings or colour schemes. Personally, for example, I am very fond of seeing how different ships look with different (http://img815.imageshack.us/img815/8488/splinterkent1.png) types (http://img815.imageshack.us/img815/8488/splinterkent1.png) of camouflage (http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/2080/jackaldesertmarpat1.png) patterns (http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/4852/jackaldesertmarpat3.png) applied on them, or some completely (http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/7914/flyingcircus1.png) different (http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/7941/flyingcircus2.png) colour schemes (http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/6135/blackopskent1.png), just for the fun of seeing how much different texture changes the look and feel of a ship.
Not trying to hijack the thread here, just making a point that in my opinion it would be awesome to have the source files for newly textured ships available for the community, which would make it a lot easier to create alternate re-skins which have in my opinion singularly positive effect on diversity of ships.
So yeah, I hope the source PSD/XCF file can be made available as a modder resource after the ship is finished.
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You know, I thoroughly agree with that!
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(http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/1746/unweathered.jpg)
Here's what I've done today.
No weathering yet. I'm trying to finish the basic texture first.
Line spammage has been toned down a bit on top.
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That. . . looks amazing! :nod:
I think it was the turtleshell armor that really turned me off of it the first time, this looks great.
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Excellent.
This is exactly how it should look, amazing work Sab0o.
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I think the bluish armor rings on the engines don't look as good as the rest of it , but I am unsure.
(I definitely like it on the middle back though)
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Blueish armor rings?
I don't see anything like that on it.
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(http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/2789/18799281.png) (http://img199.imageshack.us/i/18799281.png/)
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They don't seem bluish nor out of place to me.
They're fine.
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(http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/879/banding.png)
Mars, do you see differently coloured bands in some or all of these gradients?
(The first one is a simple linear gradient, middle one uses dithering to increase perceived colour depth, bottom one also uses adaptive supersampling).
If you do, your display is probably in need of some calibration.
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that is to say your display is in need of some GARRUS VAKARIAN
ahem. Um. Yeah. Well. :nervous:
nice model ;)
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Nice!
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(http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/1746/unweathered.jpg)
Here's what I've done today.
No weathering yet. I'm trying to finish the basic texture first.
Line spammage has been toned down a bit on top.
That's pretty ****ing awesome. A-grade work, can't wait to see the weathering.
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Wow - it really is amazing hom much difference that blue made. The new colour sceme is much better, and the decrease in the total number of armour plates brings back a lot more of the solid "lump of iron" look of the old medusa, and I think (along with the elimination of the blue) helps to eliminate the post-capella feel of the old texture. One suggestion I would make would be to swap the two major colours on the missile pods, so that the base colour is dark grey, and the armour belt running over the top is the lighter green of the main body. This would better emulate those forward dark tips on the pods - I think they're important, since they break the ship up into large patches of distinct colour - Cockpit, main body and rear pods, pod tips, brown engine tips and dark engine back. The current texs have much smaller patches, which arguably looks more detailed, but, again, makes the ship look less solid (note, I'm not against stuff like the dark grey plates on the side of the body behind the cockpit - yes, they break up the large blocks of colour, but in a subtle way that emphasizes the detail on the model, whereas swapping the relative positions of the dark and light on the engine block does it quite obviously and unneccesarily, IMO).
Another suggestion - maybe experiment with desaturating and increasing the brightness on one or two of the plates on the main body? The effect on the original is subtle, so it wouldn't have to be much, but I think it'd look good, and simulate the sort of brighter patches on the original texture. It's a pretty hit and miss technique though, so if you do decide to try it, the decision to actually use it would be very much in your court.
Finally (and I know this is still somewhat early days, and they're yet to come :)) I can;t wait to see all the dirt, weathering, decals etc. that will really make it look like a battered old relic.
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Man, a little splash of coloring, and I can pretty much cross off everything I said earlier. Awesome stuff. :)
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Now that's a medusa.
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Indeed, bang up job, mate. :D
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This. Is an awesome job. Although the main hull colour is still too gray compared to the original, this is definitely going into the right direction.
(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/7391/comparisonr.png)
You can see that the colour scheme of the original is a bit more green-ish. Quick pick at the texture showed that RGB 132-140-132 seems to be the main colour theme of the original.
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I think the contrast between the grey pods and green-ish central hull looks better than the original.
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I think the contrast between the grey pods and green-ish central hull looks better than the original.
/agree
I'd rather have something that looks similar but better than being a slave to the original colour scheme.
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The reference image shows that the missile pods should be darker gray near the front, then lighter for the main and aft sections. The your maps have the reverse. You may wish to correct this.
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The black looks like scorch marks, it would probably be added eventually.
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Actually, I was referring to the darker gray which terminates abruptly at that wavy line, which is not as dark as but independent of the scorch marks you mentioned.
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(http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/5782/1249557596186.jpg)
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Sexy Dusa is sexy. Slap on some labels, burn marks and chip off some paint and she'll be rockin' it hard.
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:jaw:
That is all.
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Everyone involved should get Conspicuous Medal of Awesomeness.
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I don't like the green color on the hull, it seems like we are adding color for the sake of just adding color. I would prefer the hull to be the same color as the missle pods, makes the hull consistent, but this is such a nice upgrade from the original I'll fly whatever you guys decide :)
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Very rarely is any color added for any other reason than for the sake of color.
Ever wonder why modern jets and ships are almost entirely gun-metal grey? Because they didn't add color for the sake of color.
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(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/9924/shieeterrwhere.jpg)
Not entirely sure where to go from here, I guess you guys want to see more WEAR AND TEAR though..
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I dunno, I'd be perfectly okay with it as it is, but there are probably more pricks here than there are accepting people.
Otherwise, I jizzed. In. My pants.
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I dunno, I'd be perfectly okay with it as it is, but there are probably more pricks here than there are accepting people.
Nice, anyone who doesn't passively accept is a prick. I like it.
I think you should definitely go more balls-out with the weathering and scoring. The blast scoring around the missile tubes was awesome on the original.
The distressed touches are pretty sweet though. WEAR AND TEAR
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Could use some glowy bits like the original had and a bit more detail but other than that? It's good so far.
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I dunno, I'd be perfectly okay with it as it is, but there are probably more pricks here than there are accepting people.
Nice, anyone who doesn't passively accept is a prick. I like it.
Not exactly what I meant, I was more or less referring to the mass amounts of rage that occurred recently (though that's probably unrelated), though sorry for implying that.
Anyways, at this point it could go in as it is, or you could make it appear more 'used' as Battuta suggested with the scorched spots.
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it's perfect. This belongs to the FS Open.
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It's good, but right now, it looks factory-new.
Some wear and tear would be nice, marks from missile exhaust, a few scratches here and there...
Medusa could stand to be a bit dirty. :)
Oh, and don't forget lights.
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Listen, I have served in an air base, as an AA gunner back when I was in the Greek Air Force.
The techs would never allow an air craft to have a less than perfect paintjob. That's just the way things were done.
I know this is sci fi and a pc game none the less, still, I don't think that the crews tasked with the maintenance and upkeep of those fighters would allow them to deteriorate so much so that wear and tear would have been apparent. Battle damage would have been patched up in the best possible manner.
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I say make it a bit more like in the original, put some black/dark gray burn marks around the missiles, and make the exposed engine parts much darker.
don't add stupid lights, we don't want a xmas tree, we want a military fighter, add some small wear and tear, maybe some chipped paint, but don't overdo it.
(http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/1746/unweathered.jpg) (http://img714.imageshack.us/i/unweathered.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
*just a small edit I made in photoshop
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Nighteyes is onto it. Also, the decals on the original would be nice.
But all that notwithstanding, this really is a top notc job Sabo0.
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That scorch stuff Nighteyes did is great.
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Looking good, it is hard to see the weathering on a grey ship.
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Personally I like the clean version so far.
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Scorching is great, and as has been noted, the aircraft warning labels that were on the original are missing.
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Listen, I have served in an air base, as an AA gunner back when I was in the Greek Air Force.
The techs would never allow an air craft to have a less than perfect paintjob. That's just the way things were done.
I know this is sci fi and a pc game none the less, still, I don't think that the crews tasked with the maintenance and upkeep of those fighters would allow them to deteriorate so much so that wear and tear would have been apparent. Battle damage would have been patched up in the best possible manner.
Yeah, there's a sense of irony when the military worries more about how clean something looks over how practical it is.
Speaking from experience myself as well.
Though that comment isn't implying a complaint about the modified texture, the scorching looks damn good. But, considering the secondaries would be swapped off, replaced, etc, it might be a good idea to reduce some of the scorching on the missiles.
I also just got a stupid idea for a Starbuck shoutout featuring the Pristine Medusa. :nervous:
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(http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/1746/unweathered.jpg) (http://img714.imageshack.us/i/unweathered.jpg/)
Great! :):yes:
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Awesome.
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Looks good but ideally a clean version would be made and finished first, it's easier to add 'dirt' but it's harder to remove it.
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Listen, I have served in an air base, as an AA gunner back when I was in the Greek Air Force.
The techs would never allow an air craft to have a less than perfect paintjob. That's just the way things were done.
I know this is sci fi and a pc game none the less, still, I don't think that the crews tasked with the maintenance and upkeep of those fighters would allow them to deteriorate so much so that wear and tear would have been apparent. Battle damage would have been patched up in the best possible manner.
Having spent a good while on at least one RAF airbase, I can say that this is certainly the case from my experience, as well. (RAF Kinloss, it's dual-roled as a civilian light aircraft field, and it's where my father was getting his PPL. Often went with him.)
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Nonetheless the original texture provides clear evidence of wear. We can argue until our faces are blue about the value of sticking to the original models and textures, but the texture implies a story - one of a military and a species pushed to the edge - and I don't think it's wise to alter that story.
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I also tend to think that the GTVA would stop giving a **** about maintaining bombers that well considering that their battle mortality is through the roof.
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Great job on the texture so far, and +1 for wear and tear. While current-day air forces may have their fighters all clean and freshly painted, comfy on an airbase back home, a true frontline base of operations - like most destroyers we see in FS - should have other priorities. That's :v:'s idea about it, anyway, so let's adhere to that.
Besides, some weathering adds greatly to the perceived realism of a ship like this.
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(http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/3520/geh.jpg)
(http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/3370/ahdgb.jpg)
(http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/5853/buttsv.jpg)
Still a bit of work left in this. Annoying little things, so I probably wont post any more pics for a few days.
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Can't wait to see it in flight.
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This is on the right track. Glows go a long way to make it feel much more like the Medusa we all know.
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You are the coolest mother****er
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You most make Dusa bombing run on HTL Typhon trailer!
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<<Insert Redundant Declaration of Your Excellence's Extreme Awesomeness Here>>
say, you know that weird bulb thingie underneath the two guns, that was originally a flashlight or pair of headlights or something any chance of that happening
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My nipples explode with delight! (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MontyPython)
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I'll be flying this in Slaying Ravana...
Then regretting it since it has pretty terrible survivability.
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Well, so does the Boanerges, too. :p
But SabOo, great work. The new MediaVPs are going to be beyond awesome.
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I'll be flying this in Slaying Ravana...
Then regretting it since it has pretty terrible survivability.
Pretty much any bomber has terrible survivability with no fighter escort, because, y'know, they're not supposed to be good at killing fighters.
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The ursa's decent with double banks of subachs, a bank of tempests and that kayser turret. (But only against AI, and even then it starts sucking hard at insane difficulty)
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There's no way this is worse than the Boa.
At least it has a turret.
I actually managed to dogfight fairly effectively with it in FSport.
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The turret has a Prom R in FreeSpace 2, though :(
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Oh right.
Maybe that's why it was good in FSPort. Avengers were actually good.
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I always found it kind of odd that the bombers have double turrets yet shoot only 1 bolt at a time.
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Higher the difficulty, better your own turret will be as well. And I agree Kolgena
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Now that's what I'm talking about! I'll be flying this any chance I get where a mission doesn't let me use the Helios.
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Judging by the in-game shots (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=25406.msg1486226#msg1486226), the canopy frame could do with somewhat less saturation, to closer match the hull colour - it really sticks out as-is.
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I dunno, I like the contrast.
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I dunno. If hell was breaking loose over missile bay scorching, then the canopy frame should match the rest of the hull like Retail.
Plus the contrast doesn't really look that good. Maybe if it was less dramatic of a difference it would be okay, but as it is, it should simply just be changed to the green-grey.
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I dunno. If hell was breaking loose over missile bay scorching, then the canopy frame should match the rest of the hull like Retail.
Plus the contrast doesn't really look that good. Maybe if it was less dramatic of a difference it would be okay, but as it is, it should simply just be changed to the green-grey.
I disagree, my personal thought is the scorching on the missile bays is from missile exhaust so it would be limited to the surrounds of the bays
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Yeah that brown color doesn't fit in at all.
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gah.. you people are so finicky...
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That's called constructive criticism dear sir. Also, the cables are too thick.
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gah.. you people are so finicky...
I'm simply pointing out the detail that would make the more anal Retailist blow gaskets before they take notice and cause a five-page rant over it. :P
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That's called constructive criticism dear sir. Also, the cables are too thick.
:doubt:
It's not really constructive if the justification is basically that it's not like retail... I want it noted that when it comes to FSU upgrades/changes, I definitely err on the conservative side of things. But so often the criticisms are about things that are so meaningless (like the cables being too thick). Often the modding artist has a good stylistic justification for whatever they did and people poo all over it because it's not like retail. This just rips the creative freedoms right out from under the artist.
Now I know I'm simply inferring here because it wasn't specifically stated. If I'm wrong, my bad. The cockpit metal being redish does fit the color scheme because reds go well with greens (See color wheel (http://tinyurl.com/5swljzh)) and there is already red on the Medusa engines. It makes stylistic sense to me to continue that scheme all the way forward on the design. Design and stylistically it makes sense. I'm inferring (since no justification was given) that the distaste for the red is because it wasn't that way on retail.
But I guess if I'm going to take my own advice, the color of the cockpit metal makes such a small difference that I don't care anymore.
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If pictures are posted, and feedback is wanted from these forums, you'll be getting lots of opinions from people who started loving this game a decade ago. That means that lots of us will be resistant to changes from retail to that are not obvious improvements, simply because it detracts from the nostalgia factor.
Whether the artist listens to any of the advice is their choice alone. You've said so yourself before, mjn, and that's fair and makes sense. I do mind when asset creators get bitter from negative responses and nitpick criticisms though, since it almost feels like they're implying "I want to hear feedback, but nothing that disagrees with what I already believe".
(Also, I vote we make the canopy grey instead of brown. The celebration pics thread did sort of make that part stick out more than I'd like)
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If we always look at art through nostalgia glasses, then I vote we have more music videos like this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLK5ZOjWaXE)
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I like the distinguishment. It's subtle and effective. It could be worse by being even less subtle. I spend a lot of time looking at air frames from airplanes to helo's (Cobra, Apache style) and I like the subtle difference that even a change in material can make even when the same coat of paint is applied to the surface.
I'd say leave it as it is currently, as it is an easy of enough change to make before (or after) it goes "Final" that concentrating on making all the other other areas "work" is much more important in my opinion. We can later hold a poll with some shots for folks to vote on.
So, moving on. Awesome work being done here.
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I'll have to disagree again with the current color, pointing something out with the current fighters / bombers and how they also have either the exact same color on the canopy frame as the primary color of the hull, or a darker color of the primary, this being on the Hercules. The Artemis is an exception with black struts against the white hull, the D.H. of course has the dark green. The Pegasus has grey against black, but I think I read the texture itself needed some more improvement, not 100% on that detail.
But all-in-all, all the other HTL Strike Craft went with no changes in how the framing was textured in comparison to the hull's primary, so why start now?
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I found the image in "A Celebration" thread, and the colouration there is much more pronounced than the colouration present in Sab's above provided shots. So, if you are referring to the Celebration thread images, -that- likely will not be the final product, but you should/might/may see something more closer to Sab's earlier posted image.
And again, it's not like this is "Done" yet any way. So let's just see how things develop and we put a test model out there and see how it goes.
And I for one, while I don't suggest that we blatantly make it obvious the separation of canopy and hull demarcation, would like to see some form of subtle difference to mark that difference to some degree. It conveys an element that I can't quite place but rather like.
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but you should/might/may see something more closer to Sab's earlier posted image.
I looked at that image again to double check and I can see what you mean.
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:eek:
Please upload those pics here (http://www.moddb.com/games/freespace-2/images)!
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Ah, the reason the cockpit looks so orange in the pic Hades postsed is because the shinemap saturation is set too high. Otherwise it looks the same as the previous pics in this thread. Minor oversight in a build I sent to Hades for .pof-ing purposes.
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Just thought I should do an update here, and share a cool picture. It seems this thing is going to require modelled thrusters, which is delaying a beta release. LODs and Debris are both done and the turret works.
(http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/4329/jagka.jpg)
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Gorgeous.
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awesome work
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wow
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where the hell do I learn to texture like that
:jaw:
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I want to point out the fact that absolutely no canon fighter or bomber has modeled thrusters, with the exception of the main drives. There's nothing you can do about the thruster geometry being there, but adding visible thruster affects will be very much out of place for a FS small craft, and I think that adding that detail will not fit in at all with the FS-verse. This isn't NuBSG.
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I want to point out the fact that absolutely no canon fighter or bomber has modeled thrusters, with the exception of the main drives. There's nothing you can do about the thruster geometry being there, but adding visible thruster affects will be very much out of place for a FS small craft, and I think that adding that detail will not fit in at all with the FS-verse. This isn't NuBSG.
What
all FreeSpace and FS2 fighters and bombers had modeled thrusters
what they don't have is modeled RCS thrusters...
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I want to point out the fact that absolutely no canon fighter or bomber has modeled thrusters, with the exception of the main drives. There's nothing you can do about the thruster geometry being there, but adding visible thruster affects will be very much out of place for a FS small craft, and I think that adding that detail will not fit in at all with the FS-verse. This isn't NuBSG.
I think you're misinterpreting what modeled thrusters mean. He's talking about modeled thruster cones on the main drives rather than glowpoints, which all retail ships had (they were cool too).
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I want to point out the fact that absolutely no canon fighter or bomber has modeled thrusters, with the exception of the main drives. There's nothing you can do about the thruster geometry being there, but adding visible thruster affects will be very much out of place for a FS small craft, and I think that adding that detail will not fit in at all with the FS-verse. This isn't NuBSG.
What
all FreeSpace and FS2 fighters and bombers had modeled thrusters
what they don't have is modeled RCS thrusters...
To clarify my statement myself, "modeled thrusters" is referring to the RCS batteries in this instance, with an exception to the main engines or "drives." The Medusa as modeled here does have RCS thruster geometry - there's nothing that can be done about that at this point. However, I believe adding thruster effects to the RCS batteries would be really, really out of place for an FS small craft. Hence my objection.
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I think Sab0o meant main engine thrusters (as opposed to just using non-modeled texture sprite thrusters), but might as well ask for clarification on that.
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I want to point out the fact that absolutely no canon fighter or bomber has modeled thrusters, with the exception of the main drives. There's nothing you can do about the thruster geometry being there, but adding visible thruster affects will be very much out of place for a FS small craft, and I think that adding that detail will not fit in at all with the FS-verse. This isn't NuBSG.
What
all FreeSpace and FS2 fighters and bombers had modeled thrusters
what they don't have is modeled RCS thrusters...
To clarify my statement myself, "modeled thrusters" is referring to the RCS batteries in this instance, with an exception to the main engines or "drives." The Medusa as modeled here does have RCS thruster geometry - there's nothing that can be done about that at this point. However, I believe adding thruster effects to the RCS batteries would be really, really out of place for an FS small craft. Hence my objection.
I don't think anyone has suggested adding thruster effects to the 'RCS batteries' so you don't have anything to object to.
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Indeed not. This is all about the main drives; as currently implemented, they use 2 dozen thruster effects. Which is just too much.
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That old workhorse is looking amazing. :)
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Well done. I'm salivating in anticipation for the next Media VP release with all these fantastic models! Also glad to see the community it still going strong after all this time. /gush
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Glad you guys like my model and Sab0o's textures, he did a fantastic job on them.
And yes, modeled thrusters as in the modeled thrusters on retail ships that have been called modeled thrusters for about 13 years now, Thaeris.
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Petrified with delight. That looks good.
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2011 is certainly becoming a good year for models. Hades and Sab0o have given this old bomber a second life. That life may be very short though, depending on the targets they are sent to attack.
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Indeed not. This is all about the main drives; as currently implemented, they use 2 dozen thruster effects. Which is just too much.
Can't you just put a couple of large thruster glows in place of the engines?
Placing a tiny glow at each exhaust is good for capships, not fighters.
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(http://blueplanet.fsmods.net/E/medusa.png)
There's your visual target. Go achieve that with fewer thruster effects, and I will gladly concede the point.
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In theory, it's possible to have so many effects on a fighter. They in themselves are not a problem.
ABTrails are what causes the game to crash (not to mention they'd look silly with so many glows).
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Pfft, just split them up into groups of less than 10.
Then you can have as many as you want, and the game won't crash.
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I don't think that fixes the problem of having anime-esque afterburner trails, or the performance hit that we could do without.
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I actually sort of liked the afterburner trail effect this many engine glows caused, though it won't be as large a problem when modeled thrusters are put on.
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The crash occurs because more than 12 contrails are associated with the object, doesn't matter if it's split up into "groups" or not.
The shot E posted has 24 and a special engine build to support it. The glow factor looks nice, but the AB Trail is VERY anime-esque and not fitting with the universe.
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I thought that he just disabled trails for testing.
Anyway, does bumping the trail limit breaks anything?
A few people would really wecome such a change, especially that it would allow for such animesque trails (think of how WoD could benefit from that).
I'd certainly like to see how modelled thruster cones will look like. Adding them to other Mediavps (and FSPort) ships could also be a good idea.
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Out of curiosity, what sorts of anime series are people thinking of when they use the term "anime-esque" to describe trails? I haven't come across much in my anime-watching that would bring to mind multiple thruster trails. :p
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Since WoD is being mentioned I think anime-esque refers to extremely long thruster trails.
Think Macross Frontier and the dogfight excersize between Aldo and Klan.
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Yes, but that's contrail length, not contrail density.
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They're bomber engines. Can't you just make, like ONE big engine glow for each engine? They're not big enough that it matters.
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We -could-. But the problem with that is the -shape- is all off. 2 big circle shapes, when the engines obviously are NOT.
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Hmm...perhaps you could do a simple illustration with MSPaint or something to show what you're saying? Perception is a very intricate thing.
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i like all the little raised details. this is one of the best updates i've seen.
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How did our old Medusa handle it? It didn't look particularly terrible.
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Two thruster points on each port.
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You could use, for instance, 4 or 5 thruster glows per port (6 max), try playing around with this.
Although 24 glows are awesome, they mess with the trails and strain engine limitaitons (though, if bumping the limits didn't caused any problems, I'd like to see it in nightlies).
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Lol People are so perfectionist! You aren't going to see Medusa's full glory in-game, ever. The usage of 4 to 6 thruster glows per port is the obvious answer, and no one will ever notice that "OMG the effects only showed 10 GLOW THRUSTERS when the ship when stopped CLEARLY HAS 24 OMGWTFBBQ!!!". ... ahhhhem. And the full detail of the ship will only be noticeable when someone makes a cutscene with it flying right on the screen sideways, as the Collossus is in its own cutscene.
The model is awesome. And you'll never notice it in-game. Oh what the hell, it's awesome and that's reason enough :)
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What?
With people playing at resolutions of 1680x1050 and above, it'll be easy to notice the upgrades, even from 500 meters away.
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Lol People are so perfectionist! You aren't going to see Medusa's full glory in-game, ever. The usage of 4 to 6 thruster glows per port is the obvious answer, and no one will ever notice that "OMG the effects only showed 10 GLOW THRUSTERS when the ship when stopped CLEARLY HAS 24 OMGWTFBBQ!!!". ... ahhhhem. And the full detail of the ship will only be noticeable when someone makes a cutscene with it flying right on the screen sideways, as the Collossus is in its own cutscene.
The model is awesome. And you'll never notice it in-game. Oh what the hell, it's awesome and that's reason enough :)
Looking at it that way, nothing would have changed since retail.
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The upgrades are noticable, minor things such as amount of thruster glows are not.
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The upgrades are noticable, minor things such as amount of thruster glows are not.
Why, they most certainly are. I've worked with them for a while now, changed them around, added more, etc. on many FSU ships, and believe me, they do make a difference.
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Lol People are so perfectionist! You aren't going to see Medusa's full glory in-game, ever. The usage of 4 to 6 thruster glows per port is the obvious answer, and no one will ever notice that "OMG the effects only showed 10 GLOW THRUSTERS when the ship when stopped CLEARLY HAS 24 OMGWTFBBQ!!!". ... ahhhhem. And the full detail of the ship will only be noticeable when someone makes a cutscene with it flying right on the screen sideways, as the Collossus is in its own cutscene.
The model is awesome. And you'll never notice it in-game. Oh what the hell, it's awesome and that's reason enough :)
Looking at it that way, nothing would have changed since retail.
Yeah great, thanks for that. I never had realised that either was this ubber shebang megatextured and twentythousandpoly upgrade or nuthin.
But I thank you for making me see the Truth.
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Yeah great, thanks for that. I never had realised that either was this ubber shebang megatextured and twentythousandpoly upgrade or nuthin.
But I thank you for making me see the Truth.
That was needlessly pissy - if it weren't for the people who wanted every last detail of their work perfectly done in their eyes, models would still be very limited, the engine itself would have a lot more of the original bugs. Much of the improvements in FSO have been in large part because someone wanted their work to be JUST SO, so if the Medusa crew want to nitpick their work, I feel no need to nag them along.
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Well I disagree. But whatever rocks your boat.
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I personally don't see how trying to get it as perfect as possible is bad, because it only means a better looking end result.
I like you, Luis Dias. Don't ruin it.
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Did not say that at all. I even said, just for the amazingness of it all go for it. But since there's a problem in putting all 24 thrusters in FSO, I really can't see an issue in downgrading it to 10.
But hey, if you can upgrade FSO so it will be okay, and the fps of a medusa squadron on the screen doesn't go down to 10, I guess that's fine too. I was just entertained by the perfectionality that's all ;).
One day I'll have the time and patience and revisit some cruiser model I made here that I tried so hard to get it under 10k ;). It'll have at least double, and I won't take any complaints about it! :D
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The main problem I have with modelled thrusters is that the Medusa will have a distinctly different looking engine than every other ship in the game. Personally, I'm with luis dias - if you can get 90% of the effect from a smaller number of thrusters, I'd go for that, myself.
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This is sort of a problem with consistency in the varying designs; ideally everything would follow an established style guide (yes, ima Graphic Designer) that entails the do's and don'ts for the artistic direction of a project.
However, different people are submitting work from their own time and effort; the result is a style conflict due to personal tastes. Now I'm not criticizing anyone's work or approaches, but we've got an essentially volunteer based effort that has no formal organization or guidelines for how the MVPS should look. If it looks good and works, then that's an option, my only problem is when actual gameplay balance could suffer, but that's another discussion. :D
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And, Atomic, that's part of the charm of HTL anyway ;).
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Multiple points to address here. The only problem with having 24 vs 12 (which is the actual top value, not 10) is that there is a static number in the code that says so. A number than can be easily changed or potentially made dynamic.
As for modeled thrusters putting this ship out of the way of other ships, only if they don't get modeled thrusters as well. And anything with a circular shaped engine will probably be low on the priority scale. But lets face it, round shaped thrust balls on non-round thrust vents = not all that great. Compare the Pegasus with a modeled thruster effect vs the current, it honestly looks significantly better the old way. But the fact of the matter was that less and less models were being made with modeled thrusters because everybody wanted the Particle/Glow-point ones or something (especially on the round shaped ones). Also, compare the above shot that The E posted on the Medusa rear against what is currently in the F3 lab. It just looks better, but 24 thrusters points (while not being a performance problem) are an aesthetic problem when you have 24 AB Trails from one ship.
Despite there being a hodge-podge of members and aesthetics working on the models, there actually IS an over-laying style guide and direction. We may not be a professional studio, and our numbers may come and go, but it is there. Try applying that eye to the retail assets and tell me where it was then, because that's what we have to work with. And while there are many areas where subtle interpretations are everything, they do under go a formulation of consensus. Just because YOU don't see the organization doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And if it's output doesn't meet your aesthetic or standard, that's hardly my problem, but maybe you might share it more with us and we'll be more than happy to listen.
And nothing done should ever affect game play balance of the Retail Campaign. We test for that, and it is Verboten.
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Well... The models in FreeSpace show a lot of variance in style depending on their design and manufacturer, actually. This is consistent with real world - even aircraft designed for the same goal can have vastly different appearance (A-10 Thunderbolt 2 vs. Su-25/39 Frogfoot, both designed for ground attack purposes), and those are limited by the laws of physics that requires them to have same basic structures (such as wings).
No such limitations in FreeSpace.
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The perfect solution would be coding in some kind of system which would allow to detach AB trail spew points from thruster glows (optinally, of course). It could be difficult, but it could come in handy for a lot of models. Unfortunately, it'd most likely require a major change in code.
Thruster cones are fine, as long as they'll be on all ships. The ones with circular engines can be handled by modelling a cone with a circualr base and scaling it in PCS2.
Of course, I wouldn't be against bumping the trail limit by the way. In fact, I know a place where it'd be really welcome.
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Well, I just flew a Medusa. It uses four small...well, those small engine...thingies...exhaust, yeah.. I don't see why it can't be done with this model. If that doesn't satisfy you...
Why not go for broke and use a single large engine glow-thingy for each engine, then technobabbling it in the top of the wiki article? Something like this...umm...
The GTB Medusa is a class of heavy bomber which was developed during the Great War. It was the only Terran bomber at the time of its introduction capable of mounting the Tsunami anti-cruiser warhead. A respectable secondary capacity allowed the Medusa to play a pivotal role in several key battles of the Great War. The engines of the Medusa developed by Han-Roland Corp. combines the exhausts of each engine pod, into two, making it more efficient <something> for afterburning or stealth or something, really.
I know it's rubbish and totally nonsensical but, better something than nothing.
Just making my point though...hah. Don't take it too seriously. Dragon's idea is quite good too.
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The perfect solution would be coding in some kind of system which would allow to detach AB trail spew points from thruster glows (optinally, of course). It could be difficult, but it could come in handy for a lot of models. Unfortunately, it'd most likely require a major change in code.
Thruster cones are fine, as long as they'll be on all ships. The ones with circular engines can be handled by modelling a cone with a circualr base and scaling it in PCS2.
Of course, I wouldn't be against bumping the trail limit by the way. In fact, I know a place where it'd be really welcome.
Simply put, if done right, modelled thrusters look better. We've seen examples and screens from several places. Ask Hades if you want to see them again because I can't be arsed to look them up right now.
Now, switching to thruster glows like we did a while back is an *easy* chore comparatively. Ships already mostly had all the points set up, they may have needed some sizing, but we could make thruster changes in one fell swoop.
It's very unlikely we could ever do that if we wanted to add modelled thrusters to all ships again, because most HTL models never got them at all. It is a much bigger task to undertake. With that in mind, if we blanket the whole thing and say "all or none" then it's quite unlikely we'll ever get around to switching to something better than our current system. We don't have the staff or time to go through all the ships and add modelled thrusters right now.
I don't know what our plans are in FSU yet, things are still being worked out. However, modelled thrusters are currently OFF in the species table. There is absolutely no reason why we shouldn't add modelled thrusters to the Medusa, even if only for future compatibility. Let's take a chill pill here people. There are many options and all of them point toward a better looking Freespace experience.
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I'm all for a "better looking Freespace experience" myself.
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Despite there being a hodge-podge of members and aesthetics working on the models, there actually IS an over-laying style guide and direction. We may not be a professional studio, and our numbers may come and go, but it is there. Try applying that eye to the retail assets and tell me where it was then, because that's what we have to work with. And while there are many areas where subtle interpretations are everything, they do under go a formulation of consensus. Just because YOU don't see the organization doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And if it's output doesn't meet your aesthetic or standard, that's hardly my problem, but maybe you might share it more with us and we'll be more than happy to listen.
No offense meant, but I'm used to keeping things unified or under a common sail or having all of the art elements gathered together in a "group" thinking session. However, I think it's not a good idea to enforce any unity on the FSU especially since this is a community of volunteers. HLP reminds me of the Debian developers, who are essentially a loose confederacy (yes, Debian is awesome). On top of that, this ins't a studio like Valve which spends tremendous time on making look and feel a priority.
So I'll just say that it's stupid to try and place professional standards on community driven projects. Henceforth my little quip about ideally.
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Despite there being a hodge-podge of members and aesthetics working on the models, there actually IS an over-laying style guide and direction. We may not be a professional studio, and our numbers may come and go, but it is there. Try applying that eye to the retail assets and tell me where it was then, because that's what we have to work with. And while there are many areas where subtle interpretations are everything, they do under go a formulation of consensus. Just because YOU don't see the organization doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And if it's output doesn't meet your aesthetic or standard, that's hardly my problem, but maybe you might share it more with us and we'll be more than happy to listen.
No offense meant, but I'm used to keeping things unified or under a common sail or having all of the art elements gathered together in a "group" thinking session. However, I think it's not a good idea to enforce any unity on the FSU especially since this is a community of volunteers.
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So I'll just say that it's stupid to try and place professional standards on community driven projects. Henceforth my little quip about ideally.
Then why'd you mention it in the first place?
And just because we're NOT a Professional Studio, doesn't mean we can't aim for (and achieve) or should desire less than Studio level pride in accomplishing our goals.
In any case, starting to get Off Topic here. Again. Model is under going testing.