Author Topic: Wing Commander 6: The Undiscovered Release Date (Star Citizen Thread)  (Read 588944 times)

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Offline The E

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Can you land anywhere on those planets or only at bases?

I also find it interesting that immediately outside the landing area, the planet loses definition. It goes from fairly detailed rocky area to basically rolling amorphous hills. the landing area is rocky and jagged, the area surrounding is all rounded as if by water erosion.

 So is it a procedural planet with a hand-built landing location? The planet just window dressing for the park? Or can you land anywhere you want and get out? What happens if you land, get in another guy's ship and take off? Does your ship get swallowed by the lesser LODs?

In Elite, you can land anywhere on a planet. There usually are a few marked points of interest on the surface, which are then represented by stations with procedurally generated layouts. The environment has the same level of detail throughout.
And no, you can't enter another player's ship. They were planning to enable that sort of piracy at some point, but nothing's happened with it yet and it doesn't seem to be a planned feature for Horizons.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
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Offline Aesaar

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Did you notice how it sounds like this was CR's first time playing his own tech demo?


Boo hoo, a Goon troll got treated as the troll he is. Cry me a river. Women only group will be allowed, despite it being a little controversial. Star Citizen is welcoming to women and minorities.  :yes: But not to Goon trolls.
Lol you're actually buying Ben's "but goons!" excuse.  It wasn't the fault of his moderation team, it was all the fault of the goons!  You are the perfect Ur-citizen.

It's typical SC logic: community gets angry at the idea of a women's group in SC and turns the thread toxic, ban the OP.  When called out, blame goons.  Anything to avoid admitting that maybe his moderation team is ****ty and anything to avoid punishing the people actually at fault.  And here's you lapping that up because you don't want to admit that there's any aspect of this game that isn't the best thing ever.

Same sort of thinking saw a woman banned from CitCon because she reported getting sent a dick pic from one of SC's $25k backers (that being Accelerwraith).

And I like that this is the only thing you responded to out of that post.  So you agree with everything else?


Unrelated:



https://www.restorationhardware.com/catalog/product/product.jsp?productId=prod80301&categoryId=cat3910198

https://www.restorationhardware.com/catalog/product/product.jsp?productId=prod3070163&categoryId=cat3250024

https://www.restorationhardware.com/catalog/product/product.jsp?productId=prod280189&categoryId=cat1676047

Now that's a responsible use of backer funds right there.  Potentially 4000$ for three pieces of office furniture.

I wonder what they've spent there in total.  More of that **** turns up in every single picture or video they take of their offices.  It's like that $20k coffee machine they bought.


« Last Edit: December 17, 2015, 05:57:19 am by Aesaar »

 

Offline Mikes

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Did you notice how it sounds like this was CR's first time playing his own tech demo?


Boo hoo, a Goon troll got treated as the troll he is. Cry me a river. Women only group will be allowed, despite it being a little controversial. Star Citizen is welcoming to women and minorities.  :yes: But not to Goon trolls.
Lol you're actually buying Ben's "but goons!" excuse.  It wasn't the fault of his moderation team, it was all the fault of the goons!  You are the perfect Ur-citizen.

It's typical SC logic: community gets angry at the idea of a women's group in SC and turns the thread toxic, ban the OP.  When called out, blame goons.  Anything to avoid admitting that maybe his moderation team is ****ty and anything to avoid punishing the people actually at fault.  And here's you lapping that up because you don't want to admit that there's any aspect of this game that isn't the best thing ever.

Same sort of thinking saw a woman banned from CitCon because she reported getting sent a dick pic from one of SC's $25k backers (that being Accelerwraith).

And I like that this is the only thing you responded to out of that post.  So you agree with everything else?


Unrelated:



https://www.restorationhardware.com/catalog/product/product.jsp?productId=prod80301&categoryId=cat3910198

https://www.restorationhardware.com/catalog/product/product.jsp?productId=prod3070163&categoryId=cat3250024

https://www.restorationhardware.com/catalog/product/product.jsp?productId=prod280189&categoryId=cat1676047

Now that's a responsible use of backer funds right there.  Potentially 4000$ for three pieces of office furniture.

I wonder what they've spent there in total.  More of that **** turns up in every single picture or video they take of their offices.  It's like that $20k coffee machine they bought.





So what have you bought lately and when can we accuse your employer of irresponsible use of funds because of what you bought with your salary?

Hey. .. not saying it isn t exactly as you say ... but on the other hand, you are jumping to conclusions without having a clue, so who knows? ;-)


But it's sure an interesting PR problem for large companies based on kickstarter... i.e. what salary do you actually allow yourself? Or do backers suppose that people working on their project don't get paid a dime until release? Or may not buy anything beyond basic neccessities and food? ;-)


Kinda a huge can of worms that you open with simple accusations like that. /shrugs.

 
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Yeah it's expensive furniture, but is this furniture typical of the studio or is it just hand-picked for this area to be film-able?  They've obviously trying really hard to make this room "cool" but I wouldn't be surprised if most of their studio was decorated with ikea desks.

 

Offline Aesaar

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
So what have you bought lately and when can we accuse your employer of irresponsible use of funds because of what you bought with your salary?

Hey. .. not saying it isn t exactly as you say ... but on the other hand, you are jumping to conclusions without having a clue, so who knows? ;-)
I think there's a difference between spending your personal money on things, and spending money people gave you to make a game on a $2000 desk when you could have bought a perfectly serviceable one at Ikea for $150.  If you don't see a difference there, that's your problem, not mine.

And show me where I "jump to conclusions without having a clue".

Yeah it's expensive furniture, but is this furniture typical of the studio or is it just hand-picked for this area to be film-able?  They've obviously trying really hard to make this room "cool" but I wouldn't be surprised if most of their studio was decorated with ikea desks.
A month or so ago they showed pictures of their new Santa Monica studio and the tables in the main work area were bought off that website.  I'm combing the SA thread for the picture in question, but it's 800 pages long so bear with me.

There's also that $20k coffee machine they bought.

EDIT: here we go:





https://www.restorationhardware.com/catalog/product/product.jsp?productId=prod2710129&categoryId=cat1676047

So yeah, pretty sure it's furniture typical of their studio.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2015, 12:38:33 pm by Aesaar »

 

Offline Bryan See

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Yeah it's expensive furniture, but is this furniture typical of the studio or is it just hand-picked for this area to be film-able?  They've obviously trying really hard to make this room "cool" but I wouldn't be surprised if most of their studio was decorated with ikea desks.
A month or so ago they showed pictures of their new Santa Monica studio and the tables in the main work area were bought off that website.  I'm combing the SA thread for the picture in question, but it's 800 pages long so bear with me.

There's also that $20k coffee machine they bought.

EDIT: here we go:





https://www.restorationhardware.com/catalog/product/product.jsp?productId=prod2710129&categoryId=cat1676047

So yeah, pretty sure it's furniture typical of their studio.
This is going to be not only the UAV/Aeronautics lab here in UPM Serdang, but also the game development studio for my forthcoming project following the FreeSpace 2 Open-based Shattered Stars.

EDIT: When I'm referring to that project, it's going to be a response to Star Citizen, Elite Dangerous and No Man's Land.
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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
*No Man's Sky

But yeah those tables look similar to a 500 dollar one on that website. 3 grand in tables sitting right there.
A far cry from one of the studios I worked at where I was stuck at 10-dollar ikea desks.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2015, 01:03:11 pm by Akalabeth Angel »

 

Offline 666maslo666

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Lol you're actually buying Ben's "but goons!" excuse.  It wasn't the fault of his moderation team, it was all the fault of the goons!  You are the perfect Ur-citizen.

It's typical SC logic: community gets angry at the idea of a women's group in SC and turns the thread toxic, ban the OP.  When called out, blame goons.  Anything to avoid admitting that maybe his moderation team is ****ty and anything to avoid punishing the people actually at fault.  And here's you lapping that up because you don't want to admit that there's any aspect of this game that isn't the best thing ever.

Same sort of thinking saw a woman banned from CitCon because she reported getting sent a dick pic from one of SC's $25k backers (that being Accelerwraith).

Did you ignore those vulgar messages the troll sent to the moderators? He deserves one day ban for that alone. Normal well meaning community members certainly do not act that way. It was obviously an attempt to stir up trouble, and it has Goon methods written all over it. So forgive me for calling spade a spade. Here, let me paste it again:

Quote
Let me stress right now: I do not believe anyone on the moderation team banned Lauresh because they are a woman. I am 100% confident that it was because of the 30+ flags complaining about other users in the thread, with profane messages attached: “****ing ban this retard,” “for the love of god would someone please stop this person from ****ting up the thread already,” “mother ****ing trolling” and so on. Lauresh seems to have flagged not only sexist posts (which should be warned/probated) but also anything complaining that the thread was a setup (‘you’re a Goon, you just want to fight, etc.’)

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/2421310/#Comment_2421310


Source for the dick pic accusation? I havent heard about that one... Do you have some evidence or is it just Derek Smart tier hearsay yet again?

And I like that this is the only thing you responded to out of that post.  So you agree with everything else?

I do agree that Chris attempt to play his own game was a bit cringeworthy. For example, I find the chat window perfectly usable, however I know it is turned off by pressing Enter key. It seems like Chris was unaware of that, hence his frustration with the interface. Unless it was a bug or an unfamiliar setup..


Anyway, here is what David Braben of Elite fame said about Star Citizen:

Quote
Landing on planets seems to be ‘the new black’ as they might say in marketing circles… You can do it now anywhere on the surface of countless 1:1 scale simulated planetary surfaces in Elite Dangerous: Horizons and landing is coming in the future in No Man’s Sky, Star Citizen (as I heard just now – a major new future feature they announced last night), Infinity: Battlescape and many others. This is a great thing, as open world space games have now truly come back with a bang, and I look forwards to playing them – and also huge congratulations to Chris and the team for raising $100M for Star Citizen!

What both Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous are trying to do is very hard indeed. Both games are incredibly ambitious. I am proud and excited about what we are doing, but what they are doing is ambitious too, and I am looking forward to playing Star Citizen when it is finished. What we are both doing is new; we are trailblazing. The scope of both is vast and quite different, and neither have been done before, so there is no right answer for either of the approaches. It is frustrating to see some of the criticism of Star Citizen online. We should applaud when someone tries something that is hard, that hasn’t been done, not discourage them.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?p=3278592#post3278592

Indeed, it is frustrating to see some of the toxic nitpicking that Star Citizen is the subject of by the detractors of our based Chris. As I said many times, it is too early to judge..  :yes: We are trailblazing.
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci

Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded.

 

Offline Scotty

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Star Citizen is doing a very good job of trailblazing its way right into the ground, yes.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
The biggest thing I took away from working in the games industry is how easy it is to conceal toxic politics, rampant mismanagement, and total creative confusion from anyone outside the studio.

 
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Indeed, it is frustrating to see some of the toxic nitpicking that Star Citizen is the subject of by the detractors of our based Chris. As I said many times, it is too early to judge..  :yes: We are trailblazing.

It works both ways. People are nitpicking sure, but supporters of the game aren't viewing it with a critical eye either.
If I was an actual supporter of the game I would find that live demo of the game an embarrassment. Then weren't set up to run the game and when the game did get started Chris didn't seem to be enjoying it and the game crashed right away.  Can't they get a stable build for the demo?

And really, what is more important than the demonstration of actual gameplay?  Nothing.

As someone who plays games, when I see a demo, I want to see the actual game being played. This is true in trailers and livestreams and whatever else. Star Citizen live-streams on the other hand seem to be focused on two things,  showing off ship models,  and showing off actors.  If I all wanted to see was drawings of ships I would just head to deviant art or conceptships blog and see a ****ton in about 5 minutes.


 

Offline Aesaar

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Did you ignore those vulgar messages the troll sent to the moderators? He deserves one day ban for that alone. Normal well meaning community members certainly do not act that way. It was obviously an attempt to stir up trouble, and it has Goon methods written all over it. So forgive me for calling spade a spade. Here, let me paste it again:

Quote
Let me stress right now: I do not believe anyone on the moderation team banned Lauresh because they are a woman. I am 100% confident that it was because of the 30+ flags complaining about other users in the thread, with profane messages attached: “****ing ban this retard,” “for the love of god would someone please stop this person from ****ting up the thread already,” “mother ****ing trolling” and so on. Lauresh seems to have flagged not only sexist posts (which should be warned/probated) but also anything complaining that the thread was a setup (‘you’re a Goon, you just want to fight, etc.’)

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/2421310/#Comment_2421310
So yeah, reporting sexist and ****ty comments?  Ban that troll.  Making sexist and ****ty comments?  No problem.  Can't allow those goons to ruin our fun by calling out sexism.

Yeah, that's truly excellent moderation.

Are you really this broken?


SC has the single worst community I've ever seen, and that's overwhelmingly because Ben fostered that environment through incredibly ****ty moderation policies, and it's only gotten worse over time.  He's a horrible community manager.


Quote
Source for the dick pic accusation? I havent heard about that one... Do you have some evidence or is it just Derek Smart tier hearsay yet again?
The victim posted in the SA thread a few months back.  Had screenshots of the email and a really creepy RSI chat conversation she had with the guy.  This was two threads ago so I'm not going to spend hours digging it up.  Believe me or don't.  I don't much care.  You'd try and rationalize it away even if I did.


Unrelated: Good post on the Frontier forums about planetary landings and graphics:

Quote
Already blows ED out of the water technically but the big difference is it isn't live and playable yet.
ED need to up their game though because that is truly seamless and the planet had an atmosphere, albeit no weather, and the fidelity was much higher already and it is only in the early stages.

No.

An atmospheric scattering effect isn't such a big deal nor the big challenge in doing PG planets. Pretty much every PG planet demo on youtube has it including all the small one man teams playing around with it from their "bedrooms". If anything atmospheric scattering can be used to hide and fade away terrain while being "shiny" and "earthlike" which seems to fool a lot of people into thinking "better". Same thing with the Inovae Engine.

Case in point.

With scattering in Outterra:
http://i.imgur.com/EEf9PiLl.png

With scattering turned off:
http://i.imgur.com/fuO4oEyl.png

Showing the planet "naked" and without that "shiny effect" is a much bigger challenge while also making it look good. Something that ED have accomplished. As soon as they start to add these kind of things on top of what they have peoples perception of the quality will go through the roof IMO. Hopefully this video from SC might actually speed up the process of getting there sooner in ED.

The "fidelity" in the Star Citizen demo was actually nowhere near what can currently be seen in ED in regards to the PG terrain. Especially in terms of believable large scale features. What was shown was some rather generic noise algorithms applied pretty evenly across the entire surface of the planet as a heightmap. If they would remove the atmosphere layer and show that planet in full sunlight it would basically look like this currently...

http://i.imgur.com/KjgmKp3l.png

Now compare that to this in ED:
http://www.elitegalaxy.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/EliteDangerous64-2015-12-09-03-13-27-940x500.png

Which is why we are only shown the nightside of the planet from afar at the moment.

The fidelity in the custom made terrain around the base was higher of course, due to it being handmade, but all of the PG terrain around it was very simple compared to even many one man team efforts that have shown of videos on youtube. The terrain tech in SC will without question improve though and I look forward to seeing where it goes, but it's not like FD is gonna sit around on their hands doing nothing either.

EDs engine is just as seamless when just moving around in the engine. The difference is that in-game in ED we also have the network layer on top. How seamless SC will be while connecting to other players inside the real game instead of a tech demo like this is yet to be seen. However...there is a possibility that it might actually feel more seamless depending on how the split up them map of the star system. If the connection to the other players happens when using quantum drive to approach "orbit" as shown in the video and you already at that stage gets connected to the people down on the ground then it will be more seamless since no switch will be needed while going down. The downside is that orbit (including the station shown) and the planet itself will share an instance thus spreading out people over a much bigger area. Another downside according to my book is the uncontrollable quantum drive when moving big distances in space. I personally prefer the manual control EDs super cruise gives us.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2015, 03:04:25 pm by Aesaar »

 

Offline Hades

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Boo hoo, a Goon troll got treated as the troll he is. Cry me a river. Women only group will be allowed, despite it being a little controversial. Star Citizen is welcoming to women and minorities.  :yes: But not to Goon trolls.
Please point to where on the doll Goons touched your EVE spaceship
[22:29] <sigtau> Hello, #hard-light?  I'm trying to tell a girl she looks really good for someone who doesn't exercise.  How do I word that non-offensively?
[22:29] <RangerKarl|AtWork> "you look like a big tasty muffin"
----
<batwota> wouldn’t that mean that it’s prepared to kiss your ass if you flank it :p
<batwota> wow
<batwota> KILL

 
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
who the **** actually cares how much their tables cost? it's a tiny tiny tiny fraction of their expenses and it's dangerously far into 'your crowdfunded game must be completed in squalour' levels of righteousness
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline Aesaar

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Paying $2000 for a desk is funny.  I mean, it's smarter than spending $2500 for a jpeg, but it's still pretty dumb.

  

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
I want to put my predictions down on paper:

Assuming the company doesn't collapse due to mismanagement, Star Citizen will be

—A released, open world, first person space sim/FPS
—Closer to the pessimist' predictions than the optimists
—Playable and largely good-looking
—A complete technical and design cluster****, with major rollbacks in the simulationist philosophy to make an actual game
—Most closely comparable to PlanetSide 2, in that it will be an ambitious concept plagued by technical difficulties, bad balance, and an inability to find actual fun in the huge gamescape
—Comparable to EVE Online in the punishing complexity/confusion of its metagame and the toxicity of its forums
—Comparable to Freelancer in the number of features cut or disabled
—Littered with abandoned features, broken preorder promises, and drama about who has 'earned' special in-game treatment via backing

 

Offline Sushi

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
In my mind SC is sort of a prototype platform for the next generation of space sim games. Even if it doesn't turn out great in and of itself, hopefully it will help advance space sim technology.

In other words, even if they don't get it right, I'm hoping someone else will be able to learn from their experience, both successes and failures. It's like the worlds largest crowdfunded gaming research project.

As I've mentioned before: I don't like their odds of even qualified success, but I'm cheering for them anyway.

 
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Star Citizen is the technological dead-end you'd expect if you built an open-world space MMO in an engine built for FPS tech demos. Every ~major advance~ they've made has consisted of repairing one of the ****ups that lead on from that decision. Like with literally every other thing SC has accomplished, E:D did it earlier, cheaper, and with less wanky fanfare.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2015, 04:54:36 pm by Phantom Hoover »
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
—Most closely comparable to PlanetSide 2, in that it will be an ambitious concept plagued by technical difficulties, bad balance, and an inability to find actual fun in the huge gamescape
But I had a huuuge amount of fun in Planetside 2 with a lot of really fond memories of amazing battles and heroic feats.
Urutorahappī!!

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[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
who the **** actually cares how much their tables cost? it's a tiny tiny tiny fraction of their expenses and it's dangerously far into 'your crowdfunded game must be completed in squalour' levels of righteousness

The price of the tables relative to the total budget is not relevant no, but it can be indicative of the overall philosophy of the company and the way they manage their money.

Ion Storm, the studio headed by John Romero which produced Daikatana was located in the penthouse of a large office tower.  Now some would rightly ask, "Why the hell are you in the penthouse? What a waste of money".  But for him it was a status symbol, he wanted the studio fancy even if later on it was discovered that the skylights and computers made it very hot and difficult to work and the studio turned into a virtual shanty town with cloth draped over cubicles to shut out the light while employees slept on the floor. Incidentally his super ambitious game,  Daikatana, was released years late and buggy with poor AI after many internal studio troubles.


Now imagine if that studio and game was crowd-funded. Would it be odd for people to ask "Why the hell are you in the penthouse instead of in a much cheaper ground-floor suite?". Would moving into a ground floor or cheaper suite be equivalent of living in squalor? No of course not.

So why would filling your studio with affordable furniture be anything less?
Like if those tables in fact cost 3000 dollars, that represents the contributions of 100 30-dollar backers.  How would you feel to know you're trying to help make a game and your money was spent for 1/17th of a table for one employee?

Like congratulations 666maslo666, your 53 dollars may have helped pay for anywhere from 2.7% to 4.8% of a Industrial Tool Chest 4-Door Media (priced 1095 to 1895 dollars).