Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Modding Tutorials => Topic started by: Apollo on March 23, 2013, 10:48:16 pm
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This will be short because it's very simple.
FreeSpace 2's damage scaling makes it impossible for light weaponry to destroy ships with the "big damage" flag. Adding a "huge" flag to a weapon will solve this problem, but then the AI won't use it against fighters! Fortunately, there is a solution.
By giving a weapon $Substitute with an period of 1, you can replace all of its shots with another weapon. This is significant because it allows small ships to utilize weapons with the "big ship" flag. It can also be used to bypass engine restrictions so that the AI will target fighters with "huge" weapons.
Either of these flags allow a weapon to destroy warships with the "big damage" flag.
Ignore this crap. It's wrong and AI fighters will fire huge primaries without any extra measures.
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Here I was thinking you'd written an arduous tutorial on how to bypass the phantom system that reduces player damage compared to wingmen.
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Here I was thinking you'd written an arduous tutorial on how to bypass the phantom system that reduces player damage compared to wingmen.
Different kind of damage scaling. :P
Title changed to be more specific.
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Ironically the other one is about damage to capships too ;7
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Ironically the other one is about damage to capships too ;7
are you kidding me
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No, he isn't, there's this annoying bug that pops up sometimes that reduces player damage like he just said
I haven't encountered it much myself but when it does it's actually quite annoying. I haven't encountered various degrees of it: it's not much but it's pretty noticeable when you're trying to kill bombers like the SB Seraphim and SB Nephilims.
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That sounds highly irritating.
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http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Ai_profiles.tbl#.24disable_weapon_damage_scaling_for_player%3A doesn't seem like it should need much of a tutorial.
But against Seraphim? How does that work?
On topic: that method is pretty cool. Without it I would have added a shockwave.
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That solution affects all player weapons. This one only affects specific weapons, allowing for greater control.
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They are completely separate issues. http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=76608.0 is, I think, what Battuta was referring to, and only applies to non-huge weapons.
This is significant because it allows small ships to utilize weapons with the "big ship" flag. It can also be used to bypass engine restrictions so that the AI will target fighters with "huge" weapons.
Either of these flags allow a weapon to destroy warships with the "big damage" flag.
Either one? I didn't know that.
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They are completely separate issues. http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=76608.0 is, I think, what Battuta was referring to, and only applies to non-huge weapons.
Oh, that bug.
Should have though of that.
This is significant because it allows small ships to utilize weapons with the "big ship" flag. It can also be used to bypass engine restrictions so that the AI will target fighters with "huge" weapons.
Either of these flags allow a weapon to destroy warships with the "big damage" flag.
Either one? I didn't know that.
One of the many things I discovered through balance testing.
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No, he isn't, there's this annoying bug that pops up sometimes that reduces player damage like he just said
I haven't encountered it much myself but when it does it's actually quite annoying. I haven't encountered various degrees of it: it's not much but it's pretty noticeable when you're trying to kill bombers like the SB Seraphim and SB Nephilims.
It's not a bug and I think it's specifically vs. capships.
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Yo Apollo will the capital+ flag achieve the same ends as this trick?
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Yo Apollo will the capital+ flag achieve the same ends as this trick?
That flag appears to be broken. The AI will still target fighters with it, and it inflicts very little damage against "big damage" ships (as in, 4 banks with x64 time compression will take a very long time to do any significant damage). This becomes harder and harder the more damaged it is, until it eventually stops at 10 percent hull integrity.
EDIT: Bear in mind that I tested that with a nightly.
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Yo Apollo will the capital+ flag achieve the same ends as this trick?
That flag appears to be broken. The AI will still target fighters with it, and it inflicts very little damage against "big damage" ships (as in, 4 banks with x64 time compression will take a very long time to do any significant damage). This becomes harder and harder the more damaged it is, until it eventually stops at 10 percent hull integrity.
EDIT: Bear in mind that I tested that with a nightly.
It's purely a targeting flag, it doesn't do anything about damage. But damn, that flag is not supposed to be broken - it was added in to make the Archer in BP2 work.
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Yo Apollo will the capital+ flag achieve the same ends as this trick?
That flag appears to be broken. The AI will still target fighters with it, and it inflicts very little damage against "big damage" ships (as in, 4 banks with x64 time compression will take a very long time to do any significant damage). This becomes harder and harder the more damaged it is, until it eventually stops at 10 percent hull integrity.
EDIT: Bear in mind that I tested that with a nightly.
It's purely a targeting flag, it doesn't do anything about damage. But damn, that flag is not supposed to be broken - it was added in to make the Archer in BP2 work.
Well, there's some chance that it was an issue with that nightly.
Why'd you need that? The Archer already has the "huge" flag.
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Yo Apollo will the capital+ flag achieve the same ends as this trick?
That flag appears to be broken. The AI will still target fighters with it, and it inflicts very little damage against "big damage" ships (as in, 4 banks with x64 time compression will take a very long time to do any significant damage). This becomes harder and harder the more damaged it is, until it eventually stops at 10 percent hull integrity.
EDIT: Bear in mind that I tested that with a nightly.
It's purely a targeting flag, it doesn't do anything about damage. But damn, that flag is not supposed to be broken - it was added in to make the Archer in BP2 work.
Well, there's some chance that it was an issue with that nightly.
Why'd you need that? The Archer already has the "huge" flag.
The AI is happy to fire huge-flagged primary weapons at fighters. You need something to restrict that behavior.
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Why not just add a +nocreate table that removes the "big damage" flag from all the ships?
Could be easier than making a whole bunch of substitute weapons.
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Yo Apollo will the capital+ flag achieve the same ends as this trick?
That flag appears to be broken. The AI will still target fighters with it, and it inflicts very little damage against "big damage" ships (as in, 4 banks with x64 time compression will take a very long time to do any significant damage). This becomes harder and harder the more damaged it is, until it eventually stops at 10 percent hull integrity.
EDIT: Bear in mind that I tested that with a nightly.
It's purely a targeting flag, it doesn't do anything about damage. But damn, that flag is not supposed to be broken - it was added in to make the Archer in BP2 work.
Well, there's some chance that it was an issue with that nightly.
Why'd you need that? The Archer already has the "huge" flag.
The AI is happy to fire huge-flagged primary weapons at fighters. You need something to restrict that behavior.
Oh for the love of god...
Why can't the wiki have accurate descriptions of flags? Is that really too much to ask for?
Well, that makes this fix pointless for primaries.
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As I recollect the AI was more than happy to shoot Archers and Redeemers at fighters. Maybe I'm wrong though! We certainly coded in that flag for some reason.
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I distinctly remember (http://youtu.be/KyN0gMFsrqU?t=22m50s) a flight of Durgas instagibbing a poor Atalanta through massive Reedeemah salvoes.
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That's funny, because lately I've encountered bizzare behavior that contradicts the AI supposedly shooting at stuff with weapons that have the 'Huge' flag. Recently, I've found that the AI will completely refuse to fire Terran Huge Turrets that I've given the 'Huge' flag at anything that isn't a destroyer or a corvette. So far I've seen this on all builds I have. I'm going to use a debug build and experiment with it further.
Also, the damage scaling isn't a bug? Hmm, that's interesting, but I've definitely encountered with fighters on older builds, like 3.6.12. I don't seem to be getting it on the BP builds or 3.6.18, but I'm not so sure.
This is really funny. After I mess around in the debug builds and make sure I record everything I run into, I'm going to share it so you guys can see what happened/happens. It seems that some people are running into scenarios where flags don't work properly.
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That's funny, because lately I've encountered bizzare behavior that contradicts the AI supposedly shooting at stuff with weapons that have the 'Huge' flag. Recently, I've found that the AI will completely refuse to fire Terran Huge Turrets that I've given the 'Huge' flag at anything that isn't a destroyer or a corvette. So far I've seen this on all builds I have. I'm going to use a debug build and experiment with it further.
Also, the damage scaling isn't a bug? Hmm, that's interesting, but I've definitely encountered with fighters on older builds, like 3.6.12. I don't seem to be getting it on the BP builds or 3.6.18, but I'm not so sure.
This is really funny. After I mess around in the debug builds and make sure I record everything I run into, I'm going to share it so you guys can see what happened/happens. It seems that some people are running into scenarios where flags don't work properly.
In my experience the "huge" flag definitely stops capships from firing "huge" weapons at fighters. It seems like the rules are different for fighters, however.
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Hmm, a shot in the dark, but could the AI be linking its primaries? Meaning that it attempts to shoot down a fighter with, say a Rapier, it simply happens to be shooting it's anti-capital ship gun of doom at the same time?