Author Topic: custom content in Zathras  (Read 20443 times)

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Offline Slasher

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Re: custom content in Zathras
You're probably familiar with how to get stuff out of the .vp files at this point.  In TBP's core.vp, look under the model subdirectory for the model files.  I think vortex.pof and warp.pof are the model files for the jump effects.  PCS2 is now the standard .pof viewing program, so you can use it to check before converting into Blender.

You'll need to convert the POFs to a format Blender can understand, then eventually reconvert them back into the game.  The tutorial thread in the modding forum has some other resources that could be helpful too.

 

Offline wesp5

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Re: custom content in Zathras
You'll need to convert the POFs to a format Blender can understand, then eventually reconvert them back into the game.

Uff, that looks more complicated than I thought! Couldn't somebody of you with all these programs already running try to do what I suggest ;)? FUBAR did decrease the transparency of the effect recently, couldn't he just pull the end of the cone of the current 3D model back until it meets the flash position?

 

Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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Re: custom content in Zathras
You don't seem to understand. The flash occurs at the center of the pof.  Making the effect shorter will not move the flash out of the center.  If I chopped the cone in half then it would be in the center of the remaining half.  This would also move the position of the effect so that any time it is placed in a jumpgate it would now be at the wrong position thus breaking those missions. 

The flash and jump are 2 completely different effects played in the same spot by the code. 
No-one ever listens to Zathras. Quite mad, they say. It is good that Zathras does not mind. He's even grown to like it. Oh yes. -Zathras

 

Offline wesp5

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Re: custom content in Zathras
The flash occurs at the center of the pof.

Hm, it doesn't look like that for the 2D version. So how is that done? Is the 2D cone effect unsymetrical? Is the half of the cone beyond the flash invisible in that case? Could this be reproduced to get a 2D/3D compromise?

 

Offline Slasher

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Re: custom content in Zathras
I think what FUBAR is saying is that the game is coded to render the flash at the center of the jump effect's model.  If model is changed such that the center is actually at the tail end of the .pof it'll throw all kinds of mission out of whack.  Any mission where a ship or warp-effect SEXP was placed with any amount of precision is going to suffer, and there are plenty that do just that.

Ironically, in the show, when viewed from the side, jump points look flat much like the 2D version in the game. 

 

Offline wesp5

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Re: custom content in Zathras
Ironically, in the show, when viewed from the side, jump points look flat much like the 2D version in the game. 

Really, in which episode is this visible? Which gives me another idea: Is the 2D version actually 2D? The picture posted here looks as if it contains at least two vertices. Maybe we could just extend them or add some more to make it look like the mouth of the 3D version, because obviously the 2D flash effect is at the end of the cone and not at the middle. What do you think?

 

Offline Slasher

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Re: custom content in Zathras
I can't remember which episode, but this topic came up years ago and someone referenced the show.  Apparently jump points are flat when viewed from the side, and only appear to have the added dimension when seen from the front.  

[edit]  Now that I think about it, this was back when we were still on the VWBB boards.  Legend of the Rangers had just come out and we were having a big debate/argument over whether or not to switch to the Crusade style jump points or use the ones in LotR.  That was over eight years ago.  Obviously we did neither, since the jump effect you see now is relatively unchanged from the one that was released with TBP 1.0 back in 2001. :D
« Last Edit: October 07, 2010, 03:27:46 am by Slasher »

 

Offline wesp5

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Re: custom content in Zathras
Legend of the Rangers had just come out and we were having a big debate/argument over whether or not to switch to the Crusade style jump points or use the ones in LotR.

I'm glad you didn't switch because these new jumppoints were as stupid as most of the non Foundation Imaging stuff. Now what about the 2D model, could it be changed?

Update: I also noticed that when a warp effect is triggered manually in the fs2 files it looks like the 3D version even if 2D warp effect is selected in Launcher. Why is this?
« Last Edit: October 07, 2010, 01:25:39 pm by wesp5 »

 

Offline Slasher

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Re: custom content in Zathras
Do you mean when a warp-effect SEXP is used?  The mission designer can force the use of one jump point model or another in FRED2.  I believe it's the last argument for that particular operator, but I can't remember what its default setting is.   

 

Offline Trivial Psychic

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Re: custom content in Zathras
The side-view thing from the show was actually from "A Call To Arms".  As the Victory and Excalibur are jumping at one point, you see them approach what appears to be a very shallow bowl-shaped effect and vanish into it, but it still appears to be the traditional cone/tunnel entrance when viewed from the front.  Due to rendering issues, there is currently no way to make the jump point look that for the game.  Personally, I'd rather keep the cone effect for the jump rather than the shallow one, since they are more often seen from the front.  I would like to see the newer double-sided cone used to reduce the see-the-arriving-ship-through-the-side-of-the-cone issue.
The Trivial Psychic Strikes Again!

 

Offline Slasher

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Re: custom content in Zathras
I was worried I was coming off as a Crazy Man on that episode thing.  Thanks, Trivial Psychic. 

 

Offline wesp5

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Re: custom content in Zathras
The side-view thing from the show was actually from "A Call To Arms".

Well, for me this wouldn't count as "canon" anyway because after Foundation Imaging left Netter Digital produced too many bad or inconsistent effects. I still remember the wrong sized Centauri Primus cruiser flying backwards in Sleeping in Light, because they obviously didn't know what they were doing. Also most of the ND models were ugly compared with the Foundation Imaging ones and the whole concept of the Excalibur didn't fit one bit into the Babylon 5 universe. I really liked about it before that the races and their ship design made sense and this got completely lost when FI was gone :(...

 

Offline Trivial Psychic

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Re: custom content in Zathras
The side-view thing from the show was actually from "A Call To Arms".
I still remember the wrong sized Centauri Primus cruiser flying backwards in Sleeping in Light,...
I don't recall that one, but I do recall the backwards-flying Minbari Nials that were WAY over-sized, in "Legend of the Rangers".
The Trivial Psychic Strikes Again!

 

Offline Slasher

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Re: custom content in Zathras
I think Sleeping in Light was filmed/produced in the Season 4 run anyway, back when JMS wasn't sure if Warner Brothers would sign off on the show's fifth season.

 

Offline wesp5

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Re: custom content in Zathras
I think Sleeping in Light was filmed/produced in the Season 4 run anyway, back when JMS wasn't sure if Warner Brothers would sign off on the show's fifth season.

Yes, still Foundation Imaging was gone at the time and Netter Digital just wasn't up to it's standards. Just compare the Drakh ships to anything that FI did before...

 

Offline Slasher

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Re: custom content in Zathras
I didn't actually know that.  The difference between B5 and Crusade is like day and light to me, but I've never picked up on changes during the original series' run.

 

Offline wesp5

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Re: custom content in Zathras
I didn't actually know that.  The difference between B5 and Crusade is like day and light to me, but I've never picked up on changes during the original series' run.

Yeah, I followed it closely at the time and it was all Star Trek's and JMS's fault. To me a big part of Babylon 5 was due to the great ships and effects done by the Foundation Imaging effects company founded by Rob Thornton. Even now nothing comes close to their ship designs which actually show off how advanced a race is and what kind of psychology they favor. Like functional gray EA ships compared to colorful Narn ships or elegant Minbari ships, not to speak of the living ships of the Vorlons and Shadows which was an idea of Thornton which JMS just worked with.

At that time Paramount had already used the first draft of the Babylon 5 script, pitched to them earlier and rejected, to create DS9 which angered JMS a lot, rightfully so in my opinion, but they still used models in their effects. After seing what FI was doing for B5 they decided to buy them off. Thornton wanted to do effects for both shows but JMS was angry again and feared to get less attention from FI compared to ST so he let them go and with the producer of B5, Douglas Netter, they founded Netter Digital thinking they could just reproduce the stuff FI made. They couldn't!

The switch was done in the middle of season 4 which can already be seen in the Drakh ship design. It got worse in season 5, Crusade and everything after that because they just didn't keep the standards of FI to keep the effects as consistent as the rest of the show. Speaking of which, have some of you tested my Star Fury Pilot patch yet? Because I improved it some more to bring some of the missions closer to the way they were shown in the original series. Only in minor ways like the Narn cruisers in Twilight Struggle not attacking in line. Should I upload version 1.1 somewhere?

 

Offline Slasher

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Re: custom content in Zathras
Yeah, Crusade's FX in particular seemed kinda :(.  

About the HEU missions, might as well upload them.  If you think the pack is polished enough at this point for a more open test, you might try posting in the Missions and Campaigns forum to net another person or two to try it out.

Just noticed "day and light" in my last post.  My brain is frying, sorry.

 

Offline wesp5

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Re: custom content in Zathras
About the HEU missions, might as well upload them.  If you think the pack is polished enough at this point for a more open test, you might try posting in the Missions and Campaigns forum to net another person or two to try it out.

Okay, I uploaded the current version to FileFront and will post about this in the other forum too:

http://www.filefront.com/17386623/b5sfpup11.zip

Speaking of fixes and hoping that Vidmaster monitors this thread ;), I've just finished his first Fortune Hunters campaign without any problems! But there is a small issue in the last mission when you stumble upon the Centauri at Gorash 7. In the end scene where the Cash is supposed to escape, the jumppoint that opens looks like an entry point and not an exit point. I've now started with the second campaign and have another question in the first real mission. Does it really make sense that a Minbari Ranger is flying a Centauri shuttle? Were the Centauri involved with the Rangers at all at that point? I know, I'm just nitpicking, but small details like those bother me and would be easy to fix :).

I also noticed several typos here and there in most of the campaigns I have played until now. Maybe some native English speaker could go over all the text for the DVD 2.0 release, especially looking for other minor errors like mixed up "then" and "than" too...

 

Offline Trivial Psychic

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Re: custom content in Zathras
Yeah, Crusade's FX in particular seemed kinda :(.  
They were better than Legend of the Rangers.
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