Author Topic: Coronavirus Outbreak  (Read 136028 times)

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Offline Buckshee Rounds

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I don't think it's fair to colour all Americans with the same brush for obvious reasons. Saying that though, Trump is one of the most stereotypically American presidents ever - he's loud, obnoxious, stupid, and fat.

Is it just me or is it a coincidence that the US and UK have both had the worst response to this thing globally and are both led by populist narcissists?

 
No.

 

Offline karajorma

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Well, we now have the benefit of hindsight, but in many countries it was hard to argue for hard lockdowns at that initial time

South Korea didn't have major lockdowns. Lockdowns are one possible option, they aren't the only thing you can do. The failure in other countries was that they didn't do ANY of them.

But before that there were attempts at coverup and downplaying, even in Wuhan (remember the ophtalmologist who was admonished by police for making comments about new SARS-like outbreak?).

Which I'm sure you remember happened AFTER they reported the existence of coronavirus to the WHO, right? That part of the narrative always seems to get missed out. Like I said, this is China we're talking about. They're going to cover **** up. The issue is did that cover-up mean that the rest of the world couldn't make an informed decision about the virus. And I'm going to say no.


We're talking about China. You should suspect a cover-up unless you are a complete idiot. What we're arguing here is whether the world would have reacted any differently if they had the true picture or whether they are trying to point at China in order to shift the blame for their own incompetence.

If there was no cover-up it's simple. If China gave a true picture of the outbreak then pretty much most of the West was massively incompetent.

If there was a cover-up then the question becomes what would the real situation have needed to be like so that the rest of the world would have changed their response. And I honestly don't believe the Western world would have done anything different unless China had reported casualties in the hundreds of thousands, not just thousands like they did. Why? Cause even if there was a cover-up what they did tell us was ****ing terrifying. China shut down an entire city because they claimed 500 people had a virus. They shut down the entire country during the largest festival of the year for 2000 cases.

In China.

In a country that still has outbreaks of bubonic plague, this was considered THAT serious.

If other governments didn't sit up, take notice and say "We need to make sure this thing doesn't spread in our country cause China seem to be ****-scared of it!" then they are incompetent. If they didn't say "You know something, China does have a track record of covering-up stuff. Maybe we should prepare for the worst just in case" they are gullible idiots. People always seem to ignore that point and argue that somehow the leaders of their country were unprepared for China to lie to them. I can't express how stupid that argument truly is.
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Offline DefCynodont119

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If other governments didn't sit up, take notice and say "We need to make sure this thing doesn't spread in our country cause China seem to be ****-scared of it!" then they are incompetent. If they didn't say "You know something, China does have a track record of covering-up stuff. Maybe we should prepare for the worst just in case" they are gullible idiots. People always seem to ignore that point and argue that somehow the leaders of their country were unprepared for China to lie to them. I can't express how stupid that argument truly is.

THIS ^^^^
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Offline Rhymes

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Edit: and in my point of view people like Fauci, trump and others who underestimated the virus - should be arrested and judged for homicide. Thats MY OPINION!

Fauci didn't underestimate the virus. Quit your bull****.
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“There was a button," Holden said. "I pushed it."
"Jesus Christ. That really is how you go through life, isn't it?”

 
Well, we now have the benefit of hindsight, but in many countries it was hard to argue for hard lockdowns at that initial time

South Korea didn't have major lockdowns. Lockdowns are one possible option, they aren't the only thing you can do. The failure in other countries was that they didn't do ANY of them.
I wonder why so many countries opted for the lockdowns, while others (Sweden, South Korea, etc.) didn't. It was a traumatism for many people, especially the elderly. I hope we won't have to face those measures once again.

 

Offline Rhymes

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Some didn't because they were dumb (Sweden). Others responded aggressively with voluntary closings, social distancing, mask wearing, et cetera while the government ramped up testing and tracing with similar aggression (South Korea). Everybody else missed the shot at doing that and locked down to squelch the growth of new cases so they could shift to testing, tracing, and isolation. This is not a mystery.
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“There was a button," Holden said. "I pushed it."
"Jesus Christ. That really is how you go through life, isn't it?”

 

Offline karajorma

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It's not a mystery but I think it is definitely something worth looking at.

I wonder why so many countries opted for the lockdowns, while others (Sweden, South Korea, etc.) didn't. It was a traumatism for many people, especially the elderly. I hope we won't have to face those measures once again.

China basically had to have a lockdown because China is a country with lots of laws but surprisingly little enforcement of those laws. It's one thing that people who never visit China don't seem to understand. The Chinese are actually quite willing to break the law and do so regularly. They only pay attention to laws they know are being strictly enforced. If they had simply said the same things Korea did and asked for voluntary closures, they would have ended up with the same disaster America had because people would have ignored the rules and just gone about their daily business.

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Quote
I don't think it's fair to colour all Americans with the same brush for obvious reasons. Saying that though, Trump is one of the most stereotypically American presidents ever - he's loud, obnoxious, stupid, and fat.

Is it just me or is it a coincidence that the US and UK have both had the worst response to this thing globally and are both led by populist narcissists?

From the point of view - of a non-american guy like me - this sentence is pure sarcasm. Imagine how the  US and UK act to other countries ALL the time. It's ridicilious reading words like those from you. And no - Trump is NOT stereotypically. He is just dumb - that's all. You could have even voted for Kanye West.

You want to know something about US people's sense for reality?

Imagine we have a global pandemia and the role models of a state are wearing bulletproof wests instead of masks for infection protection - THIS IS REALITY! - and i don't colour all Americans with the same bruch - you do it yourself for me by voting those people...

... edit: Well when Covid-19 mutates and uses guns in future the US maybe did the first thing right this century.
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Offline Rhymes

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If you're just going to dump on all 330 million Americans because a fraction of them voted for a con man then you can **** all the way off.
If you don't have Knossos, you need it.

“There was a button," Holden said. "I pushed it."
"Jesus Christ. That really is how you go through life, isn't it?”

 
oglibatory mention that both Bush and Trump have been elected by a minority

 

Offline Buckshee Rounds

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Ok, point taken, I'm being unfair and stupid. It would be more accurate to say that Trump is stereotypical of the 'type' of American that voted him in, just as Boris is.

And yes my second point was sarcastic, apologies if that wasn't clear. As I said, the US and UK have both had truly terrible responses and are led by buffoons.

 

Offline Mito [PL]

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Huh, a democracy where minorities choose for the majority. Sounds a tad familiar.


Meanwhile, another example of human stupidity, this time not going unnoticed. My region averaged about under 1 new COVID case a day for 1.2 million of population, but someone set out to make a traditional Polish wedding with some family members coming from abroad and a large crowd of invited people. Traditional hugs and kisses ensued, and a couple days later about 150 of the guests became confirmed cases and over a thousand people were put into preventative quarantine.

N-I-C-E
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You starve it to death.

  

Offline General Battuta

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You, a normie: Let's not mix FreeSpace and thousands of people dying

Me, an intellectual, making a big difference in the world:




 

Offline 0rph3u5

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*snip*

You even manage to make an anecdote about being insufferable, into an insufferable self-aggrandising episode...

... and people call me unlikable...
"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

==================

"I am Curiosity, and I've always wondered what would become of you, here at the end of the world." - The Guide/The Curious Other, Othercide

"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline General Battuta

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*snip*

You even manage to make an anecdote about being insufferable, into an insufferable self-aggrandising episode...

... and people call me unlikable...

You manage to make a genuine human tragedy into yet another reason to complain that you're unloved. It's pretty unlikable.

e: I felt like I should add: piss off, you tone-deaf ****. If you want to stand up for people denying this pandemic is real, I hear Trump's taking foreign votes.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Consider developing a moral compass that can lead you to anything besides passive-aggressive moaning about 20 year old spaceship game prestige.

 

Offline 0rph3u5

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  • Oceans rise. Empires fall.
Because I don't have the compulsion to make every grievance a matter of the public record doesn't make me tone-deaf or wanting for a moral compass.

Your moral entrepreneurship doesn't solve anything ... I fact I would consider it detrimental and taking away time for voices that should better be heard, e.g. a advocate for a community underserved by the health care system (I hear you have them on the other side of the big pond), advocates for better pay, working conditions and staffing in the health care system, or maybe an advocate for better funding of the public education system (to help with civics and science education to the help with the information problem between the rich demagogues and the populace).
"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

==================

"I am Curiosity, and I've always wondered what would become of you, here at the end of the world." - The Guide/The Curious Other, Othercide

"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline General Battuta

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Lmao you seriously think the time it took me to refuse to work with a COVID spreader would be better spent advocating for health care reform? I'll donate those thirty seconds right away.

You have always been, and apparently still are, willing to set aside any principle - whether it's feminism in writing or plain old people not dying - if it means you can pursue your bizarre, one-sided need to feel better about yourself by insulting me.

You really do think that refusing to work with a COVID denier is somehow worse than being a COVID denier. And it's entirely because you have a Hard Light Productions grudge. Incredible.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Let me be more plain: you should go **** yourself, you pathetic, self-centered piece of ****.