Author Topic: Contacting Earth  (Read 9631 times)

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Offline BritishShivans

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No, I mean like, the GTVA sends a status update right after the Capella supernova and get a angry update from Sol years later :P

 
No, I mean like, the GTVA sends a status update right after the Capella supernova and get a angry update from Sol years later :P

Thats why they invaded Sol once they got the gate up. The UEF annoyed high command for decades and they want revenge. ;)


Also I have a feeling that the original game devs didn't have Wikipedia in 1998 so they didn't know that Alpha Centauri and Earth were so close.

 

Offline BirdofPrey

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Also I have a feeling that the original game devs didn't have Wikipedia in 1998 so they didn't know that Alpha Centauri and Earth were so close.
I thought that was common knowledge.
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Offline karajorma

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I'd expect anyone who knew enough science / sci-fi to pick the stars Freespace has to know roughly how far from us Alpha Centauri is. It's not like they just picked the most famous stars out of the sky.

Barnard's Star for instance. It's only real claim to fame is that it's the next closest star to us after the Alpha Centauri system. You can't even see it with the naked eye. And it's not the only star which appears to have been picked simply because of how close it is to us, Wolf 359 is another example. So I don't think the makers of Freespace simply picked names off a star chart. There does seem to have been some effort to pick nearby stars. With the odd exception like Polaris.
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Offline NGTM-1R

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So in an effort to find interesting tangents to this topic, I observe this: FS intrasystem jumps are, apparently, able to navigate through the entire solar system with ease. In the densest parts of globular clusters, the average distance between stars is about the same distance; so you should be able to jump continuously between hundreds or thousands of stars, as opposed to a single system. Discuss.

I actually strongly considered doing this in a campaign once, where a Knossos would have taken you to a glob.

Why would they keep it secret though? Even if its a slow communication they can use it for morale and information transfer.

You're assuming that the news from Earth is good. It's entirely possible there was some kind of societal collapse and that's not going to help.

There may also have been some kind of security concerns about communicating with Earth and the possibility of the Shivans detecting it and learning Earth's relative location and choosing to slowboat and destroy it anyways. After the collapse of the node to Earth, the Shivans were still powerful enough that the GTA thought they might win without the Lucifer.

If they were pursuing a "Liferaft Earth" policy they might have deliberately avoided communicating with Earth. Earth, in turn, having heard nothing since the node collapse, might have deliberately gone dark in the belief that the GTA and PVE lost and they're the only ones left.
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Offline headdie

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I thought the whole point of the GTVA invasion is because they looked upon Sol and the UEF in particular and decided that public knowledge the UEF and its ideologies would erode support for a military solution to the shivan threat.  knowledge regarding UEF coming from communication/signal intelligence from Sol prior to the probes going through the Sol Gate.
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Offline Colonol Dekker

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Doesn't this belong in blue planet once you choose a particular fan offshoot to adhere to?

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Offline Gee1337

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I thought the whole point of the GTVA invasion is because they looked upon Sol and the UEF in particular and decided that public knowledge the UEF and its ideologies would erode support for a military solution to the shivan threat.  knowledge regarding UEF coming from communication/signal intelligence from Sol prior to the probes going through the Sol Gate.

I also thought that it was because Sol System had adapted into an independent society with the isolationism that had been forced upon them and the GTVA felt as though Sol would not fall into line upon integrating back into the GTVA, therefore seeing them as a threat to the GTVA as well as a military solution against the Shivans.

What also bugs me is why the Orestes didn't return straight to Delta Serpentis after the discovery of the Vishnans. I mean okay, they didn't want to do things like give their position or intentions away to Sol, but I would have thought that the discovery of a second "super race" would have superseeded any current GTVA agenda, as they should have recalculated what their next actions should have been.

Anyway... I think Dekker is right! I think this thread needs to be shifted to the "Blue Planet" section of the forums. I know that the OP was meant for the generic/vanilla FS2 universe, but Blue Planet was always going to become a major factor in the talking points of this thread.
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Offline The E

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Yes, but let's talk about other interpretations besides BPs here now.
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Offline Gee1337

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Ok The E... I will start with that!

There was actually a campaign I played late last year which was a two parter. The first part dealt with the Shivans deciding to let us be alone, then the focus turned inwards with an Earth revolt. I've forgotten the name of the campaign, but communication was actually maintained between Sol and the GTVA, as technology was shared. It meant that both sides had super destroyers in the form of heavily modified Hecate destroyers.

I'll see if I can find it now and edit this post accordingly when I do!

EDIT:- I believe the campaign was Incursion followed by Return to Sol!
« Last Edit: January 30, 2015, 03:16:53 am by Gee1337 »
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Offline headdie

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Yes, but let's talk about other interpretations besides BPs here now.

Sorry, forgot this wasnt in the BP board like these kinds of questions usually are.

A few possible scenarios for keeping things quiet with the population.
BP style Sol society incompatible with current social/political/military doctrine
Sol society collapses into anarchy
Sol at some point for unknown reason refuses continued contact
System wide extinction event such as an infection

anything else?
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Offline procdrone

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Ok The E... I will start with that!

There was actually a campaign I played late last year which was a two parter. The first part dealt with the Shivans deciding to let us be alone, then the focus turned inwards with an Earth revolt. I've forgotten the name of the campaign, but communication was actually maintained between Sol and the GTVA, as technology was shared. It meant that both sides had super destroyers in the form of heavily modified Hecate destroyers.

I'll see if I can find it now and edit this post accordingly when I do!

EDIT:- I believe the campaign was Incursion followed by Return to Sol!

I believe it was something as simple as "Return to Sol", or something like that. I mentioned that campaign earlier.

And you BP lovers, don't hijack the thread! BP is not canon!
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Offline Luis Dias

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That's assuming that the locations connected by subspace jump nodes are linked to same time through normal space. There is no guarantee that is the case.

Clearly, all locations interconnected by jump nodes share a stable time coordinate, which allows a multi-system civilization to exist in a meaningful sense, and more importantly maintains some kind of story continuum. But the fact that intersystem nodes basically connect parts of space through a shortcut (subspace), it is just as likely that there may be a temporal shift as you travel through the node as well.

Perhaps as you travel from Sol to Delta Serpentis via the original node, you don't emerge in the "same time" as when you left Earth. You may be decades or centuries off. There's really no guarantee. This is not mentioned in the games, but I think it's entirely plausible that traveling to Alpha Centauri through the nodes may actually mean you're in a different time than Earth.


And that's assuming that you're even in the same universe. In fact, since jump nodes leading to future or especially to the past have a tendency to generate brain-imploding paradoxes, it's entirely possible that each jump node leads to a different universe altogether, just to make sure that future Terrans can't communicate with past Earth from Alpha Centauri, or vice versa...

This is such an ugly attempt at patching the universe it's better to just leave the red herring of relativistic communications unmentioned altogether.

I actually think it's an incredible possibility that I hadn't thought about, and the closest reference I can come up with is something brought out from Old Man's War. Patches of space completely independent from each other both in space but also in time, it's an incredible sci fi setup! I absolutely love it. It brings up paradoxes on their own but that could be dealt with if you thought it through. I'm surprised here. I really am.

Doesn't mean I think it's "FS canon". Of course not. It more resembles something from Sync than FreeSpace. But Sync does exist.

 

Offline Luis Dias

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So in an effort to find interesting tangents to this topic, I observe this: FS intrasystem jumps are, apparently, able to navigate through the entire solar system with ease. In the densest parts of globular clusters, the average distance between stars is about the same distance; so you should be able to jump continuously between hundreds or thousands of stars, as opposed to a single system. Discuss.

Alpha Centauri is a collection of four stars. I had envisaged one possible mod that would deal with situations like these, where you can even add narrative tension when you have two stars *almost close enough* for simple jumps, but not *quite*. You end up having to have multiple jumps, every one less effective than the last, in a kind of attempt of trying to bridge two close islands. In such a scenario, there's always the danger of ending up in the "middle of the black ocean" so to speak, and that dread is a good source of material.

More to your point, that kind of system reminds me of Valerian and the Empire of a thousand planets.

 

Offline karajorma

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Alpha Centauri is 3 not 4 starts. Close enough though. :)


EDIT : I did have an idea once that the GTVA and Sol had tried communicating but had ****ed up in how they did it.

Probably the way that we'd think of sending out signals would be by radio since we already have radio telescopes and have already used them to send messages into space (although for some reason I've never quite understood we sent them to places thousands of light years away rather than next door). But the possibility is that technologies in the intervening years made those obsolete (for instance using message lasers for talking between Mars and Earth in pre-jump drive days is something that might have become commonplace).

Now suppose GTA technologies made radio astronomy obsolete for some reason. Maybe the GTVA tried building new radio telescopes in Alpha Centauri but Sol went with building a giant message laser. If both sides thought the other side did the same thing, they'd simply miss each other's messages and assume there was a very good reason why the other side kept so quiet. After a few months or years, they'd probably stop transmitting in case the Shivans were responsible for the other side going quiet.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2015, 07:50:33 am by karajorma »
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Offline BirdofPrey

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I wonder if they have the means to make a sublight interstellar craft.
It would take a couple decades, but they could have sent an expedition.
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Offline karajorma

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Well the first Ancients cutscene does suggest that some form of interstellar travel (perhaps even FTL but still much slower than subspace) is possible.
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I actually think it's an incredible possibility that I hadn't thought about, and the closest reference I can come up with is something brought out from Old Man's War. Patches of space completely independent from each other both in space but also in time, it's an incredible sci fi setup! I absolutely love it. It brings up paradoxes on their own but that could be dealt with if you thought it through. I'm surprised here. I really am.

Doesn't mean I think it's "FS canon". Of course not. It more resembles something from Sync than FreeSpace. But Sync does exist.

It's a cool idea but it's completely opposed to the stock Freespace tone. That's why it's a bad answer to the radio question; it's like using a hand grenade to kill a mosquito.
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Offline Luis Dias

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Alpha Centauri is 3 not 4 starts. Close enough though. :)

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Offline mjn.mixael

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I actually think it's an incredible possibility that I hadn't thought about, and the closest reference I can come up with is something brought out from Old Man's War. Patches of space completely independent from each other both in space but also in time, it's an incredible sci fi setup! I absolutely love it. It brings up paradoxes on their own but that could be dealt with if you thought it through. I'm surprised here. I really am.

Doesn't mean I think it's "FS canon". Of course not. It more resembles something from Sync than FreeSpace. But Sync does exist.

It's a cool idea but it's completely opposed to the stock Freespace tone. That's why it's a bad answer to the radio question; it's like using a hand grenade to kill a mosquito.

And all of the hundreds of fan mods and stories that have been written and/or made over the last decade all adhere to "stock Freespace tone"? Or, do you really think they have to? I, for one, encourage new ideas and new stories to try out. Especially nuclear options that have the potential to inspire countless other new ideas by breaking away from what we've done for ten years.
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