Yes
Yes
How does Neutron weapons effect the UGC fleet?
Yes
How does Neutron weapons effect the UGC fleet?
10% of damage by weapons with the Neutron-keyword bypasses enemy shields
Regretting the treaty with the DD already? :P
Hi Spoon. I'd like to ask you a few things. :)Rrrright about now.
When are we going to learn what we can spend our resources on?
Also, what is the definition of a location? Is it a system or something within a system? So do we all have 4 locations to start and the nebula in the middle is a location?A location is any place a fleet can move to inside a system. So a starlance, planet, nebula, asteroid belt etc.
Can a faction be completely eliminated?
Regarding tech level, will the tech remain the same each time the game is played?Maybe, perhaps, possibly.
Ie. Test game has x and a at L1, b, Y, u at L2
Main game is the same,
Game 42 is also the same.
Or would they change a little bit sometimes, possibly randomised or something just to change things up. ?
Can we take locations that are not planets just by moving over them? Do you take the Shipyards that are already on the map or blow them up?Both questions are answered in the rules, under shipyards and admiral mechanics
Spoon, will you be shaking the game up with special events, or just let us play the game out per the rules?That for this exact reason, the npc faction leaders are needed :p
As it stands, we seem to be entering a period of universal peace through diplomacy. While peace is great from an objective standpoint, it'd be boring if nobody started shooting each other.
Unless there's some sort of Machiavellian plotting under the surface I'm missing that'll destroy the peace and explode into full-scale war when Britannia least expects it. :drevil:
Overall, what has the current progress of diplomacy taught you about the game (before the game has even begun)?
Spoon, will you be shaking the game up with special events, or just let us play the game out per the rules?
As it stands, we seem to be entering a period of universal peace through diplomacy. While peace is great from an objective standpoint, it'd be boring if nobody started shooting each other.
Unless there's some sort of Machiavellian plotting under the surface I'm missing that'll destroy the peace and explode into full-scale war when Britannia least expects it. :drevil:
Overall, what has the current progress of diplomacy taught you about the game (before the game has even begun)?
Spoon, will you be shaking the game up with special events, or just let us play the game out per the rules?That for this exact reason, the npc faction leaders are needed :p
As it stands, we seem to be entering a period of universal peace through diplomacy. While peace is great from an objective standpoint, it'd be boring if nobody started shooting each other.
Unless there's some sort of Machiavellian plotting under the surface I'm missing that'll destroy the peace and explode into full-scale war when Britannia least expects it. :drevil:
Overall, what has the current progress of diplomacy taught you about the game (before the game has even begun)?
Bunch of hippies!
That for this exact reason, the npc faction leaders are needed :pFour military coups later... :drevil:
That for this exact reason, the npc faction leaders are needed :pFour military coups later... :drevil:
Spoon, will you be shaking the game up with special events, or just let us play the game out per the rules?I currently don't have any special events planned for the test game. (This might need to change to get you guys to actually wage some proper war :p)
Can you get Garrison fleets to move to shipyards for repairs, reinforcements and refits?
Is the faction's starting Garrison Fleet predetermined, or can we choose what it's composed of?
The marker, definitely, it's in the rules.Thank you. I've now located the reference.
About the tech level deal, if one faction can give another what they need to move up a level, how can that work when each faction has a different tech tree?
I don't want you players to feel like you need to hide your (interesting to read) discussions from prying Spoon eyes, because they might contain info that could help another faction.
Personally I'm happy to see it go. For this exact reason:I don't want you players to feel like you need to hide your (interesting to read) discussions from prying Spoon eyes, because they might contain info that could help another faction.
Gather Intel will no longer be available starting next intrigue turn.
For two reasons: 1. Even my vague global reports seem quite powerful hints in the hands of all these capable ministers.
2. I don't want you players to feel like you need to hide your (interesting to read) discussions from prying Spoon eyes, because they might contain info that could help another faction.
Grading the intel doesn't help the fact that people will still just take things to PMs to avoid their supar sekret plahnz gittin leek'd.
But - why would you spend cash on active defence instead of taking your planning to PMs to get the same effect, for zero cash? You'd need some other incentive to counter that, and sorry, I don't have any ideas at this point.
Addendum: Music can soothe the savage beast, but we would very much appreciate it if you could stop clogging our subspace bandwith with enthusiastic renditions of your national anthem, 'Rule Brittania' and 'Hearts of Oak'. Not to mention it's not helping your case, since our Yonsakuren troops are used to go into battle trances when they hear it.
-Commander T. Skivlana, DD Foreign Vice Minister
If your troops go into battle trance at the sound of our national anthem, that must be a dreadful inconvenience for them; after all, since our two nations are not at war, they are seeing no combat against Britannian troops. For the time being, we have replaced our traditional diplomatic broadcasts of our National Anthem with a classic early-21st-century song famed for promoting international harmony. Hopefully, this tune will be less offensive to your troops, and convey Britannia's sincere spirit of international cooperation. Please inform us which song is more to your convenience.
P.S. Her Majesty formally and sincerely apologizes for her Flipper comments yesterday. After the Cabinet had an extended discussion with her on the benefits of social media tact, she agreed that perhaps "ABOUT TIME WE GET IN A GOOD SCRAP LEPANTO YOU LOUSY HIPPIE" was a suboptimal choice of words to express her nuanced feelings on Britannian astropolitical relations.
Edit: Game update tomorrow is gonna be a bit later than usual as I'll need a bit of extra time to set up the tactical part (and to try and figure out all the complicated diplomatic webs you guys have weaved. :p)
Yes, you can fire through the donut hole.
What do you think was unreasonable/unstable about the politics going on?
Edit:
I really like to read all the roleplay and diplomacy stuff that has been posted and it's sad there is so few substance behind all of the (more or less :drevil:) carefully crafted words...
Hey SpoonI'd like to officially thank the SF for their willingness to bite the bullet and potentially risk their position in the game by being the first ones to go to war :D
There's your war.
:)
The issue with the politics in the test game I think is basically 4 factions with only 1 square to expand into which if spoon says wasn't deliberate I will call BS.It wasn't delib-
I just hope that the main game diplomacy will be different and not just fast talk and ruses/lies that you can't seperate from things someone ment honestly half a turn ago. Diplomacy is a big part about trust but you need time and (smaller) actions to build it - time we don't have and any fleet commitment is close to an all-in.Yeah, I think it will be. The faction leaders being present in the main game (which I can say with a lot of confidence now, will definitely happen) alone should change how diplomacy will go.
It's pretty much what headdie said: The small symmetric map generally made diplomacy a fast paced guesswork which in my opinion it shouldn't be. It never allowed for the all peace setup that the CRF promoted to come true. And don't tell me the CRF was surprised by the invasion that their allies started.
I also think Spoon made it like this deliberately so we got to fight within a few turns. I just hope that the main game diplomacy will be different and not just fast talk and ruses/lies that you can't seperate from things someone ment honestly half a turn ago. Diplomacy is a big part about trust but you need time and (smaller) actions to build it - time we don't have and any fleet commitment is close to an all-in.
Edit:
I really like to read all the roleplay and diplomacy stuff that has been posted and it's sad there is so few substance behind all of the (more or less :drevil:) carefully crafted words...
If it's any help, at this point in time, the DD have a non-combat agreement with everyone and everywhere with the exception of the CRF (truce expired and we're at cold war again).
My posts suck, hence why I haven't even tried to post them. :( Fiddlesticks
If you guys have other ideas that could add something to the intrigue phase to replace gather intel, speak up, I'll consider it.
I may be missing the point. If it's misinformation why would anyone pay attention to it? I suppose you could put something truthful in there amongst the garbage to try and make someone think it was false.
I am uncertain what the benefit would be to posting into this BB
To Minister Headdie of the Sol Union,
Your unprovoked invasion of the United Guilds of Commerce has shocked the civilized world. Allies or not, none of us can stand idly by while you turn your guns on your neighbors. Rather than discuss your grievances with the UGC via bilateral or multilateral diplomacy, you have broken your non-aggression pacts and returned to the ways of crude brute force.
We of the United Guilds of Commerce, Delest Dynasty, and New Britannia have formed a united front against this aggression. We have all agreed on the following stipulations, drafted by Delest Premier Kalazonitov:QuoteThe three nations (UGC, DD, CRF, henceforth referred to as the 'Alliance') will, as suggested by the CRF, present a joint ultimatum to the SU. They will need to withdraw to their own territory without firing on UGC forces, or face our combined fleets.
If they fail to do so, the Alliance will declare war on the SU. By extension, all truces, non-aggression treaties and alliances involving an Alliance member and the SU will become null and void.
In the above circumstances, the war will be pursued until the SU provides us with war reparations to the satisfaction of the Alliance members; the UGC, as the attacked party, will be the primary judge on this matter but war reparations will have to be paid to all Alliance members that have suffered casualties during combat.
The income from Aldebaran will be divided, as suggested by the CRF and UGC, in three equal parts between the Alliance members.
The acceptance of the above terms by the DD is subject to the resolution of the Aldebaran standoff.(...)
Once the Delest and Britannia have settled our dispute over Aldebaran [by next Strategy Phase], consider these terms in effect.
We beg you, withdraw your declaration of war, and we can settle this matter without loss of life. If not, we will expel you from Fomalhaut with lethal force.
Make the right choice, for all our sakes.
Yours in Honor and Resolve,
Britannian Foreign Secretary Lepanto
I'm not gonna veto, just be aware that I am fully supporting SF's cause :p
The problem with the RP in its current state is that few of us are doing it and all beside each other, esspecially consideirng Minister gameplay somewhat bottlenecks information ... I mean the initial exchange between AdmiralRalwood and myself in the Aldebaran stand-off is was nice and tense but I only know that he and the CRF players got to see it (and after the initial exchange it hardly required continuing because I got all the info I wanted out of it :) )That's true and since quite a lot happens via PMs there is no way to release any exchanges. In this case the DD people obviously got to see it as well and it was a nice read. Diplomacy is just running so fast that the exchange might not be relevant anymore...
I support the suggestion to release game related PMs at game end. They're a vital part of the game's progression.Seems like a good idea to me, but I would make sure everyone else is okay with it first before doing so.
I support the suggestion to release game related PMs at game end. They're a vital part of the game's progression.Seems like a good idea to me, but I would make sure everyone else is okay with it first before doing so.
It's a DD fleet (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=90450.0) type.Ohhhhh... :D
Sol Force being chickens
EDIT: also the 1st DD's Port and Starboard orientations are in reverse, for them the left side of the map should be Starboard and the right side Port as they observe the map turned by 180°.
EDIT: same with 1st through 3rd SF's orientations in the Fomalhaut.
Aright, I guess I wasn't completely clear in my last post.EDIT: also the 1st DD's Port and Starboard orientations are in reverse, for them the left side of the map should be Starboard and the right side Port as they observe the map turned by 180°.
EDIT: same with 1st through 3rd SF's orientations in the Fomalhaut.
Ahem....
I really like where the public diplomacy thread is going.:beamz: :snipe: :hammer: :headz:
Ouch, gonna need some burn cream for that one.
But I can dish it right back out. (Or would you just rather wait for the results of this phase before our next verbal round of Enioch vs. Lepanto?)
(OBTW Spoon, we never actually gave the DD a 1/3 share of the refinery. That, as Enioch made specific in his treaty terms, was contingent on our resolving the dispute in Aldebaran. Which we obviously didn't.)
(OBTW Spoon, we never actually gave the DD a 1/3 share of the refinery. That, as Enioch made specific in his treaty terms, was contingent on our resolving the dispute in Aldebaran. Which we obviously didn't.)I wasn't sure so I asked the DD before the turn:
Remind me, did you guys have some kind of agreement with the other groups to share the resources of the refinery or is this a 100% grab of it?
Both the CRF and the UGC appear to have been OK with a three-way split of the refinery. They did seem to adopt our stipulations against the SF, which included a three-way split of Aldebaran.Else the refinery would have been 100% in the hands of the DD since last turn.
Haha oh man, these diplomacy posts give me such delight :lol:
Haha oh man, these diplomacy posts give me such delight :lol:
Spoon wants us all to burn :O
Haha oh man, these diplomacy posts give me such delight :lol:
Spoon wants us all to burn :O
Oh, he has made that abundantly clear. :p
Time to give him some skulls for the skull throne. :mad2:
Spoon, it's a good thing you told us you needed your data. I think there's still a decent chance that even with your new points system, we'd have been able to keep peace in this galaxy. I personally would have found the challenge of that appealing. :)
But the literal God of the Universe has spoken. And he is a God lusting for the flames of war to spread through his galaxy.
I'm all for reducing the damage taken, simply for rewarding fair play. Orph3us could have kept mum and nobody would have ever known.
But then Spoon kills me for suggesting he should redo everything, so I keep my mouth shut.
No need to bend over backwards on my account; I have one more reason to fall back and get my free Veteran upgrade now...Yes, it would become Veteran 1/4
BTW if the 3rd CRF were to return now to a CRF planet and get its free Veteran upgrade from the Academy, does the fleet retains it's combat XP?
Regarding 'overwatch' commands as I remember someone coining that term. <-- lemme get back on that later, I wanna type stuff on this subject but not right now.Okay, let me get back on that now.
Or Kamikaze Runs? With my capital ships?. Into Planets?No colony drops?! I was hoping I could haul that captured shipyard into a planet. :p
Bugger :P
I feel sorry for Orph3us, especially given his last turn fair play, but that's what you get if you try to retreat in an orderly fashion between the might of the DD :P
retreat? Heck, he was heading for the DD home system!
How is everyone else finding the game so far?Now that we are at the half way point of the test game, I'm very interested in hearing you guys opinions. Anything that you like or don't like?
Wow, Spoor is scary. :shaking: I suppose she was champing at the bit to fight some CRF ground swine and mud turtles.
Truly sorry for the RNG, Veers.
Also: has the CRF really not built a single starbase yet? Hmmmm. :drevil: :lol:
Yes well, we were not counting on the leading Admiral to trip over himself and his fleet in one swift move. Conspiracy much?
That why you have settled for freeloading our shipyard?
Yes well, we were not counting on the leading Admiral to trip over himself and his fleet in one swift move. Conspiracy much?
Clarify please. I honestly have no idea what you're talking about
That why you have settled for freeloading our shipyard?
Partially. Also because the Harcon shipyards have an excellent view over the Harcon / Fomalhaut starlance, a noticeable lack of garrison fleets and Netflix.
We're waiting for our shiny new tech to take effect, at which point all your starbase arebelong to usorbital debris.
That shipyard is a really nice place to sit at with my fleet. All warm and cozy. We are in the progress of removing all entertainement systems and adding them to the fleet. But I wonder how long I'll be able to stay there - maybe some combat would be nice for a change.That why you have settled for freeloading our shipyard?
Partially. Also because the Harcon shipyards have an excellent view over the Harcon / Fomalhaut starlance, a noticeable lack of garrison fleets and Netflix.
We're waiting for our shiny new tech to take effect, at which point all your starbase arebelong to usorbital debris.
... 3 SF fleets are unable to corner one UGC fleet...
... 3 SF fleets are unable to corner one UGC fleet...
Bravely, bravely, ran away! :lol:
... 3 SF fleets are unable to corner one UGC fleet...
Bravely, bravely, ran away! :lol:
It might serve everyone to remember that each fleet element only resolves one fire order ... Veers gave multiple this turn, so did Ralwood last turnYou don't lose the ability to fire though if your first order can't shoot anything.
and I will see if I can't optmize my fleet before it is rebuild... those carriers in the Vigilance flanks are are rubish
p.s. sadly only killing centres gives traits...
A fleet can have any number of move and fire actions, but a fleet will fire only ONCE during a single tactical combat turn. So the trick is to try to maximize the amount of weapons that are in range.
1. 3rd CRF Centre (and attached Left) FIRE AT 1st DD Left
2. ADVANCE 3rd CRF Right STARBOARD
3. ADVANCE 3rd CRF Centre BACKWARDS
4. ADVANCE 3rd CRF Right STARBAORD
5. 3rd CRF Centre (as well as attached Left and Right) FIRE AT WILL; please prioritize targets that have issued a FIRE-order against the 3rd CRF
Just for the official record:I don't like that idea so much when thinking about the final game on a larger map with more planets. At some point most planets will have a garrison fleet and when your fleet partially destroyed anyway you could just do a suicide attack for max damage and take the next fleet instead of jumping all the way back to the shipyard for expensive repairs (I know repairing is cheaper but for example a destroyed Center has to be replaced completely). Saves maybe a turn or two and makes it very easy to convert a ressource advantage into a combat advantage by spamming fleets. Also a suicide attack can be used to get on the other side of the map when it really pressing cause there is a ready garrison fleet...
It is allowed to convert garrison fleets to player fleets. So you could potentially pick up a new flank or center from an existing garrison one, to replenish part of your fleet. Or put a currently unassigned admiral in charge of a garrison, making it a player fleet.
morale and/or moraleA penalty to morale and morale? Well, it's certainly an idea I've never heard before...
morale and/or moraleA penalty to morale and morale? Well, it's certainly an idea I've never heard before...
I realize this might be completely different from what I said previously about invasion fleets. But I wasn't happy with the idea that it was either
- 1. Being able to capture a planet with a secure order, without the defenders being able to do anything about it or
- 2. Not being able to do anything at all while there still defenders around.
It is not allowed to use Valor
With this change, will Invasion Fleets be altered again the in the foreseeable future or does that all depend on the combat performance this turn?Probably not, but it'll depend on how this pans out, yeah.
EDIT: While we are on the subject of Valour - can it be used to "jump" over a friendly fleet (like a knight in chess can)?No
Shouldn't the 2nd CRF Centre have shields?Uhm, yeah. They should have :p
It'll be able to move 4 amount of move orders (given by the Admiral who it is attached to on the strategic map), these move orders are seperate from the admiral's normal fleet. (So two sets of orders need to be given, 1 for the Admirals normal fleet, and 1 for the Invasion fleet) (It is not allowed to use Valor)
EDIT: Another question, if DD/UGC fleet uses its phase torpedos to damage a retreating fleet (with its centre in 11-20% range which as it disengaged with out a Retreat-order, to escape the jammer, drops to the 1-10% range), and that way destroys it's centre, is the Admiral then a awarded a perk just like in Tactical Combat?
I like Enoich's answer, so let me just quote this for truth:
(Starbases will need a durability buff)Starbases will need to become relevant in system defense again. Because they used to be the big bad wall that the enemy had to chew through to land their invasion fleet. Now, they're just HP pinatas with popguns, waiting to be jumped upon and insta-nuked (as the lovely .gif showed us). And invasion fleets can just sneak past them now.
I'm pretty sure our starbase sat idle the whole turn doing nothing and being as irrelevant as possible. Unless of course the CRF decided to instablow it for some reason...Quote(Starbases will need a durability buff)Starbases will need to become relevant in system defense again. Because they used to be the big bad wall that the enemy had to chew through to land their invasion fleet. Now, they're just HP pinatas with popguns, waiting to be jumped upon and insta-nuked (as the lovely .gif showed us). And invasion fleets can just sneak past them now.
I'm pretty sure our starbase sat idle the whole turn doing nothing and being as irrelevant as possible. Unless of course the CRF decided to instablow it for some reason...Quote(Starbases will need a durability buff)Starbases will need to become relevant in system defense again. Because they used to be the big bad wall that the enemy had to chew through to land their invasion fleet. Now, they're just HP pinatas with popguns, waiting to be jumped upon and insta-nuked (as the lovely .gif showed us). And invasion fleets can just sneak past them now.
Damge averages for all combatants (R0 /1 /2 /3)
DD Garison (S: 180 + H: 440) : 269 / 310 / 128 / 128
3rd DD (S: 246 + H: 677): 579 / 434,4 / 70,4 / -
Starbase (S: 50 + H: 300): 122 / 122 / 50 / -
2nd CRF (S: 175 + H: 670): 346 / 343,35 / 343,35 / -
3rd CRF (S: 177 + H: 604): 326,8 / 379,6 / 291,6 / -
Remember these are averages and they don't factor in fire control (applies only point defense and DD secondary batteries anyway) and the evasion values...
- the 2nd CRF actually has enough firepower to solo the starbase in the R1-2 band; the 3rd can only do that in the R1 band (unless Lady Luck really hates us)
- 2nd and 3rd combined can't destroy the 3rd DD but would reduce it about 22-25% of its health (again without Luck factored in); if we manage to shoot first there we can clip their firepower significantly
- 2nd and 3rd conbined can destroy the Garison fleet
"None of these rules make sense! And every time Spoon answers one of my questions, things get worse!" :lol:
(I'm sorry Admiral MS, for writing confusing rules)
@0rph3u5
Though realizing several times that the very specific idea or rule you based your tactic on doesn't work for whatever reason, including being told by Spoon 2 hours ago that my orders are partially invalid, is just annoying after spending quite some time figuring out what to do. Even more so when it gets worse every time to the point where everything leads to destruction and a certain loss next tactical turn as long as the CRF does it right. At the beginning I thought that the situation is not so far away from being equal...
I think the rules could do with cleaning up before the main game. There's all this info scattered about all over the place. Bring it all into one new thread I would advise before the main game.
Well, the current situation is a result of gensis of the rules ... I mean Spoon basically turned the Tactical combat inside out on "Launch Day" (too bad I recently deleted the draft of the rules I got three weeks before the test game started...).True.
Thinking about it there is something else I need answered: What happens to the starbase and garrison if the invasion fleet reaches the drop point? Do they switch sides or do they at least fight to the end?They won't just magically switch sides, they'll fight till the end (for as short as that has been, so far :p )
Called it :p
[...]
Frankly, as a sidenote, I'm reasonably happy with how things turned out in Uuni (Capital not so much). We had made some considerably more worrying predictions for the CRF fleets... :nervous:
EDIT: Why did I get the Inspiring Trait? I am the only Admiral to date with the loss of a fleet to his name, that's hardly inspiring stuff...Starbase kill.
Also, Spoon, in the interest of fair play, can you please check the money and resources that the various factions have spent/ acquired this turn? I'm especially looking at Resources for the DD, which somehow don't add up for me, but A) I might be wrong and B) There might be other mistakes...Will do (tomorrow)
What did you expect? - Due to it's ability to fire multiple times the Starbase was quite a risk to keep around. And since darting into/out of combat is currently the CRF's only strength over the DD we need the space to maneuver in.I had some CRF battle plans in mind that would have been pretty safe for you no matter what orders I could come up with. Also there would have been very limited or no exposure to the starbase. That stupid starbase was in the way of the garrison fleet as well...
But in a related subject, I am very glad you moved the Garrison Fleet :D If you had not, the 3rd CRF would probably attacked it as part of the Valor order (because how Fire at Will is worded)... and that had not gone as well as the attack on the Starbase
Fair point, should I also post the final still frame then?Yes please!
Harcon Shipyards has no direct friendly/neutral starlance route leading to a DD planet, facility cannot be used for repair and produces no resources until a route is secured.
Last still frames added to the post
I would like to chime in that I disagree with how the economy works via linking things back to your territory. [...]
I have a question (not sure if I just missed the answer earlier): What does "Speed Doctrine" do? I've seen a description for all the other special tech, but not that one.Its a SF Tech
Heh, good questions. Hadn't considered the fluff affecting mechanics.fudge, I'm terrible and so easily distracted.
Sppon, have you had a chance to look at the Resources yet?
A question barrage:1. I've added this bit to the rules:
1. If a fleet with an invasion fleet is destroyed by Subspace Torpedoes but the Invasion Fleet survives (because the Fleet carrying it had a lower strength), is that Invasion Fleet then destroyed as well? (if it were tactical combat it would be clear)
2. If a Fleet uses the Inhibitor as their first order can it then use Subspace Torpedoes as a 2nd order?
3.1. Can a Fleet prevent a hostile fleet from firing Subspace Torpedoes as 2nd order by using the Jump Inhibitor as 1st order?
3.2. If yes, what happens to the expended funds?
4. On to Advanced Subspace Drives, if a fleet with Advanced Drives makes 3 movements in one Strategic Phase how does that interact with the Jump Inhibitor or with hostile Subspace Torpedoes? (basically at what time resolves the 3rd move?)
In the current map, Aldebaran is clear of any hostile forces and thus traffic flows. But if, for example, an SF fleet jumped in, it could 'threaten' the neutral starlances and make traffic impossible (send out patrols and commerce reaiding forces etc). If a UGCR fleet followed the SF fleet and engaged it, then the SF fleet would be tied down to defending itself and would be unable to hinder traffic for the duration of the battle.This might be interesting but I don't think that situation will come up a whole lot of times (so it'll just be one more thing for me to forget about :p)
Does the Starbase debris still hinder movement, or will it become regular terrain next turn?Will become an empty space (as seen in the aldebaran refinery map)
These can be fired at any location in the system the fleet is currently in.
Does this mean that they may be fired 'danger close', in the location where the fleet currently is? ('Fire artillery on my position!') If yes, would such a launch be prevented by Jump inhibitors?Yes and Yes
Also, just to make sure I get this: if the invasion fleet reaches the planet, the planet is secured but doesn't change sides unless the starbase is destroyed? What does this mean for resource gathering?The planet is secured and changes sides, but the starbase does not during the combat
And if the enemy assault is repelled before the starbase is destroyed, (i.e. no enemy forces are present in the planet, with the exception of the successful invasion fleet), what happens then?If the invasion fleet reached the drop point, but the attacking fleet gets destroyed/repelled and the starbase is still intact.
If the invasion fleet reached the drop point, but the attacking fleet gets destroyed/repelled and the starbase is still intact.Resources are shipped to planets, so I don't see how it would impact resources for the faction owning the planet. Even if you did want to move resources from a planet to another location it would be easy to bypass the static starbase.
Now there's kind of a special situation
What do you guys think should happen with the starbase in that situation?
I actually prefer the text...
and I find the GIF moves too fast for me.
What if the gif were 5 separate images, or an "album" where you can browse each image at your leisure before moving on to the next one?This wouldn't be too much extra effort to do.
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Secondly, I've got to say that, based on what I see so far, the CRF just seems to have all the answers when in the offensive. Valor is insanely good and pretty much hard-counters starbases. Similarly, Field Repair makes repair facilities irrelevant, since it can be used repeatedly, as long as the Minister has money to spare. Not only that, but CRF fleets can now repair fully while in combat, halfway across the map from their home space. Without having to waste an action to request resupply. :banghead:
First of all, happy new year to all from Greece! :)
Secondly, I've got to say that, based on what I see so far, the CRF just seems to have all the answers when in the offensive....
The minister can initiate this project as many times as resources allow for.
4) ?? unknown limitation alluded to by 0rph3u5 ?? Usable only once per fleet per Intrigue phase? But that doesn't quite seem to fit with:
@Veers,
The limited slots idea sounds interesting, although that could make certain lesser-powered upgrades not worthwhile at all. And it seems to make more sense to me to be for fleets rather than ministers.
1. I have not run the numbers on the DD fleets as to the curve they take with concerning potential but potential does only an incrimental combat effect, each point of potential (Morale and Veterancy) translates in a single point of evasion (-1 to enemy accurracy) and a single percent accuracy for accuracy based weapons... While the effects can cummulate with enemy stats, the change so far does not surpas the single or low double digits in the averages.
Also, you downplay the advantage that the highter shield ratio has on sustained combat - causing a reduction of permanent damage of inbetween 25-50 percent against any non-Neutron attack is breathtaking (most fleets average out at about 200 (SF Assault) and 340 (UGC Regulars) for their Centres alone in their peak range*, around half of that for the flanks; most DD Fleet elements have 100+ shields right out of the gate ).
*UGC Mercs are considered an outliner and not included
EDIT: Might I redirect your attention to this post, for a sample of comperative DD vs CRF stats as far as average damage and effective hitpoints go: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=90442.msg1807330#msg1807330
(Note: At that point in time, both 2nd and 3rd CRF are full fleets at 90% hull strengh, the 3rd DD still a full fleet at full strength while DD Garison is only a Centre and a Flank at 100%)
2. Valor is very high-risk-reward for the CRF if you look at the pure fleet stats - in combat against the UGCR more than against the DD (the damage figures of the UGCR Regulars are -before Neutron extra dmg- beyond compare in the R0-1 range). When in comes to firepower the CRF enjoys more consitency across its 1-2 range than any other faction - esspecially since most don't have much R2 firepower - but pay for that with a vurnability in R0 (exception is the Vigilance Fleet).
On the Tactical Field the effects are even worse and I'd happy to discuss that after the game is concluded (before that I fear CRF counterintelligence is watching me to closely)
1. I have not run the numbers on the DD fleets as to the curve they take with concerning potential but potential does only an incrimental combat effect, each point of potential (Morale and Veterancy) translates in a single point of evasion (-1 to enemy accurracy) and a single percent accuracy for accuracy based weapons... While the effects can cummulate with enemy stats, the change so far does not surpas the single or low double digits in the averages.
The modernisation project does not grant us extra potential - it just allows us to gather XP / morale to bring the effectiveness to above 120% (which is our baseline).
Also, keep in mind that potential adds to damage, not hit percentage. 1 point of potential adds ~1 to your evasion and 10% to your damage.
Experience: Fleet experience will go up one a level after a tactical combat*, and adds to the Potential. New fleets start at Regular (+0) and go up to Veteran (+1) and Elite (+2)
Morale: Like Experience, Morale adds to the Potential of a fleet. Morale is generally influenced by faction and Admiral achievements.
Morale ranges from Broken (-2), Shaken (-1), Ok (+0), Good (+1), Excellent (+2) and Zealous (+3)
Potential: There are several factors that can contribute to a fleet's effectiveness, such as good morale, crew experience, a solid commander in charge and so forth. But there is only so much a motivated crew can do to overcome technical limitations. This is reflected in a fleet's potential. This stat affects a fleet's damage and evasion.
Also, you downplay the advantage that the highter shield ratio has on sustained combat - causing a reduction of permanent damage of inbetween 25-50 percent against any non-Neutron attack is breathtaking (most fleets average out at about 200 (SF Assault) and 340 (UGC Regulars) for their Centres alone in their peak range*, around half of that for the flanks; most DD Fleet elements have 100+ shields right out of the gate ).
*UGC Mercs are considered an outliner and not included
QuoteEDIT: Might I redirect your attention to this post, for a sample of comperative DD vs CRF stats as far as average damage and effective hitpoints go: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=90442.msg1807330#msg1807330
(Note: At that point in time, both 2nd and 3rd CRF are full fleets at 90% hull strengh, the 3rd DD still a full fleet at full strength while DD Garison is only a Centre and a Flank at 100%)
What's your point? Are you comparing the effective firepower and health of a brawling fleet (the 3rd DD is built to brawl, and has the HP and short-range punch to reflect that) with a CRF sniping fleet (2nd and 3rd CRF are mostly Carrier fleets)? Apples and Oranges. The 2nd and 3rd CRF are meant to stay at range 2 and snipe, not brawl.
A comparison of a DD Heavy to a CRF Vigilance would be more appropriate, I think. Again, DD has better shields and overall HP (haven't run the numbers on damage output), but DD Heavy fleets are considerably more expensive and have higher repair costs.
1. Potential works as follows FYI:
Potential = Morale + Experience (e.g. 'Good' and 'Regular' nets you a 1 in potential. 'Superb' and regular nets you a 2. Superb and Experienced nets you a 3).
Potential x 10 = percentile added to evasion and damage.
So, a fleet with 3 potential has 130% evasion and every attack does 130% damage. This does NOT affect the chance of an attack to hit - just ups the damage it does IF it hits. keep this in mind for your calculations: low-chance attacks, such as your main batteries for those carriers do more damage when potential is up, but they have the same low chance to hit.
Fleet statistics:
Shields: Effectively serve as hitpoints that regenerate each new tactical combat turn.
Strength: Your fleet's hitpoints, unlike shields, these do not regenerate on their own. In order to repair this damage a fleet must be resupplied at a shipyard. Fleets below 50% strength suffer a 25% penalty to the damage they deal.
Evasion: A flat percentage to avoid a shot.
Experience: Fleet experience will go up one a level after a tactical combat*, and adds to the Potential. New fleets start at Regular (+0) and go up to Veteran (+1) and Elite (+2)
Garrison fleets do not gain Experience.
(*Actual combat, so no trying to raise your fleet experience by going into tactical combat with someone and not shooting at each other)
Morale: Like Experience, Morale adds to the Potential of a fleet. Morale is generally influenced by faction and Admiral achievements.
Morale ranges from Broken (-2), Shaken (-1), Ok (+0), Good (+1), Excellent (+2) and Zealous (+3)
Potential: There are several factors that can contribute to a fleet's effectiveness, such as good morale, crew experience, a solid commander in charge and so forth. But there is only so much a motivated crew can do to overcome technical limitations. This is reflected in a fleet's potential.
This stat affects a fleet's damage and evasion.
Example: The 101th UGCR fleet has a maximum potential of 4, it has achieved Elite status in Experience, adding a +2 modifier to its potential. It also has Good morale, adding an additional +1. But it is currently being affected by enemy ECM, which applies a -1 penalty to its potential. Leaving the 101th with a 2/4 potential, meaning it operates at 120% efficiency. Adding a 20% increase to its damage and evasion stats.
The above example from the rules page clarifies the system perfectly.
Any thoughts/feelings on this?I think it's an interesting idea that I'll give some more thought. It wouldn't work with the current way fleets and technologies are but it's given me some food for thought about the more streamlined fleets I'm playing with.
(BTW, Spoon, can an admiral give the repair / refit order while in combat?)When in combat at a location that is a shipyard or has one/starbase? No.
Maybe there's some resource cost to activate the repair, but I'd expect that to have been advertised like phase torp cost was?Yeah It should have been. I changed how project/usage cost is listed in the project thread slightly and because of this forgot to copy paste it into the game thread properly.
Spoon, we might need your opinion on "How fair is Spoon?" in the CRF internal...Being a proper nerd, I can assure you my skin is very fair.
As an Admiral I feel so limited when trying to cope with that goddamn valor and the possibilities that come with it.Valor is definitely the tech I did not expect to have such a big impact as it does and it probably comes a bit too early at T3.
Spoon, we might need your opinion on "How fair is Spoon?" in the CRF internal...Being a proper nerd, I can assure you my skin is very fair.
Maybe there's some resource cost to activate the repair, but I'd expect that to have been advertised like phase torp cost was?Yeah It should have been. I changed how project/usage cost is listed in the project thread slightly and because of this forgot to copy paste it into the game thread properly.
Field repair has a flat 2000 resource cost.
Repairing a CRF Carrier center for 20% normally would cost 500 money and 1000 resources.
As an Admiral I feel so limited when trying to cope with that goddamn valor and the possibilities that come with it.Valor is definitely the tech I did not expect to have such a big impact as it does and it probably comes a bit too early at T3.
^ Truth.
In fact, given this info, I can see why our CRF colleagues cried UP. FR is NOT a counter to phase torpedos, but a situational heal. Still good IMO, for the in-combat heal and for not having to travel back home. Momentum is important.
Is there a logic behind this?I avoid having fleets entering combat directly in firing range from each other
QuoteIs there a logic behind this?I avoid having fleets entering combat directly in firing range from each other
Then why not move the drop point somewhere else? Is there a rule it has to be A1?Someone asked me if drop points stayed at the same location at some point (I dont remember who/where that was) and I answered yes to that.
Wasn't it said somewhere that Starbases would improve as technology improved?They benefit from things like mirage fields and neutron weapons so.
Then why not move the drop point somewhere else? Is there a rule it has to be A1?Someone asked me if drop points stayed at the same location at some point (I dont remember who/where that was) and I answered yes to that.
It makes sense to me that its at the same location.
I avoid having fleets entering combat directly in firing range from each other
I'm sorry that it turned out poorly for the CRF, but it is what it is.
The whole concept with fleet flanks isn't really working out as I had imagined it anyway, its too unwieldy.Generally I like the idea of detaching flanks but it seems only the DD really used it (though it did work out). On the other hand detaching them is usually a disadvantage as more orders are needed to do anything and the rules can be misunderstood easily. No idea how to improve this and making it simpler at the same time :doubt:
About complicated combat calculations: How about removing all the specific weapon types and instead just giving a damage and hit chance value (flat percentage that can be modified and is capped at 100%) for each range? These values are calculated once at the beginning for each type of Center or Flank according to the specific weapons installed on the ships.Yeah, I was thinking something along the same lines of simplifying weapons like that.
Then dump target of opportunity or reduce it to check if a Flank doesn't need to shoot at the target to kill it in which case it fires on something else.
For randomness use either a damage range (like 80-100) that returns a random value, or if it should mimic rolling for weapon hits, use something like a normal distribution tabulated before the game starts. One roll giving a value of said distribution then replaces single shot rolls and the result only has to be scaled/streched to have the maximum at the given hit chance and maybe a capped value at the maximum (or not if critical hits are a possibility).
And for my usual dose of self loathing: This combat system allows for too many calculation errors on my end and the weapon damage isnt very transparant for the Admirals. Too many little factors that I have to account for and manually change on the maps, easy to forget, frustrating to correct. Ideally I don't want to spend more than 2 hours doing a turn, but for the intrigue phases with combat its usually a lot longer than that.
So yeah, I'll change it someday. (Once I find the motivation).
Hi Spoon.Keep moving the two flanks as a single unit, like last turn. It's too much of a hassle to go and move all of the individually.
I never knew flanks couldn't move together without a center. Will that rule be enforced next turn, or can I use valor next turn? Also, can two flanks with no center fire together?
BTW: How does Siege Mode work? If the owning player cannot issue any other order after Siege Mode was triggered, when does a fleet in Siege Mode fire?
Can only be issued as the 1st order of the combat. No move orders can be issued after going into Siege mode and Evasion drops to Zero
What I fear is the quarterback syndrome kicking in.I tried to step back from that in this test game. Take a more passive role. But the way things went I very much feel that was the wrong decision, and for the main game I will be striding forward not stepping back.
That certainly doesn't ease my fears.It isn't possible to force someone to do something though.
I might acknowledge the objective superiority of another player's suggestion, but I certainly don't appreciate it being forced on me 'because it's clearly our best option'.
[...] but then the quarterback has to let themselves be dragged down with everyone else rather than raise everyone else up. It isn't so much of an issue for the quarterback if his intervention is unnecessary to still ultimately prevail.
Also other players could learn from the quarterback's interventions and the quarterback ultimately becomes less and less influential.
A game can have many people involved, but it might only have a single player. A pure co-op game, with no hidden information is, by definition a single-player game.
I like the idea of going back to PvE, but with imperfect information and side goals that reward selfishness. That way, we avoid this game's problems with ministers and defeated faction players losing interest. And we still mostly avoid the problems with quarterbacking from the first game.
Spoon, if we switched back to PvE, do you think you might retain the minister positions, or would we be going all Admirals again? I think the minister position was cool in theory, and cool in practice so long as Ministers had a relevant job to do. Even if all the Ministers were theoretically allied, they could allocate resources to the war effort, research tech, and conduct diplomacy with each other and any races willing to talk. During WWII, the Allies had a hard time agreeing on anything, and Eisenhower had to spend a lot of time and effort just keeping the U.S. and Britain operating together on the Western Front. Ergo, shifting back to PvE wouldn't obviate the minister position.
magic
At the very end, I realize. Uuni II has a nebula background on the strategic map that I never put on the tactical map.
Lv90 wizard Swifty is working on making the shields look a lot betterwait what
Well frak me, I'll have to hand in my UGCR commerce badge after letting us come dead last in economics/resources :lol:Dead last in economy and still second place in points. :yes:
Well frak me, I'll have to hand in my UGCR commerce badge after letting us come dead last in economics/resources :lol:Dead last in economy and still second place in points. :yes: