Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: An4ximandros on September 28, 2013, 05:15:56 pm
-
http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/student-found-weapons-orange-co-elementary-school/nZ8DK/?ecmp=wftv_social_201312470064 :banghead:
ORLANDO, Fla. — A 9-year-old boy who made his first court appearance on school weapons charges was sentenced to home confinement Friday.
School officials said the boy brought multiple weapons to his elementary school in Hunter's Creek Wednesday.
An officer searched the student's bag and found an unloaded handgun, a magazine with six bullets inside, a steak knife and small-handled sledge hammer.
The guns came from his father's home, officials said.
A judge ordered the boy to home confinement and said his parents need to keep any and all weapons away from him.
The boy's father said he was playing a character he learned from the video game Minecraft.
"They use hammers to dig and knives and guns to protect themselves from zombies," the boy's father said.
Officials at Endeavor Elementary School on Balcombe Road said the 9-year-old boy told three friends before school that he had the weapons. Those three reported the information to a school resource officer, who found the student and isolated him from others in the school.
School officials said all protocols were followed, and authorities were called in to investigate.
The boy was charged with possession of a firearm on school grounds, possession of a concealed weapon and possession of a firearm by a minor.
No injuries were reported.
The boy was so tiny that his detention uniform engulfed him and he could barely see the judge over the podium Friday.
"I thought I was going to have a heart attack. I couldn't believe it," said the boy's father.
The father said his son was just acting out the game.
He believes the gun could never have been fired.
"Well, the gun was stored in a drawer but the firing pin component had been removed," the boy's father said.
Seriously? They must be getting desperate if they start throwing their flaming ignorance javelins at Minecraft.
-
i don't see any attacks on minecraft or "ignorance javelins" here.
-
Well, that's just ridiculous. The kid, the authorities, the whole situation! And all because of one, dumb kid and his dumb game. Back when I was 9 years old, I was playing with Legos. This was even better than Minecraft could ever hope to be. Also, it's somewhat ironic that the kid was sentenced to home confinement. For that kind of kid, it's no punishment. Now he can play Minecraft all day, all he wants. :lol:
-
FLAMING IGNORANCE JAVELINS
-
This is stupid. The father sucks at being a parent, what was he thinking. Idk if an 9 year old needed to be charged in court. But this is beyond ridiculous. And there are no guns in minecraft....
-
Or hammers, or knives. Hell maybe he meant Terraria. :p
-
Maybe the minecraft thing is true? This isn't GTA. It's an innocent game. Why else would he be loading up on weapons at that age? It might all be perfectly innocent. Closest things he could get to minecraft gear? Load me down like Rambo if you like, but I won't actually use any of that stuff unless you try to hurt me.
They must have talked to the boy. It's a shame we don't know what he had to say. We need to know what he had to say to judge this properly and see if there's any substance to this Minecraft thing.
-
I'm laughing really hard right now
Definitely wondering if the overall intelligence of people is dropping as years progress
-
The biggest point to be made here is that IF YOU OWN FIREARMS, THEY SHOULD BE STORED SOMEWHERE YOUR ****ING NINE-YEAR-OLD CAN'T EASILY GET AT THEM.
I don't care if the firing pin was out (thank goodness for that at least), the father is the one who should be charged here.
-
Maybe the minecraft thing is true? This isn't GTA. It's an innocent game. Why else would he be loading up on weapons at that age? It might all be perfectly innocent. Closest things he could get to minecraft gear? Load me down like Rambo if you like, but I won't actually use any of that stuff unless you try to hurt me.
They must have talked to the boy. It's a shame we don't know what he had to say. We need to know what he had to say to judge this properly and see if there's any substance to this Minecraft thing.
Seriously? The point is that the parents (or the dad) is an utter idiot. Who lets their son goes to school with such instruments? It doesn't matter whether the minecraft thing is true. The response to this is not about the kid. Its all about the PARENT
-
Seriously? The point is that the parents (or the dad) is an utter idiot. Who lets their son goes to school with such instruments? It doesn't matter whether the minecraft thing is true. The response to this is not about the kid. Its all about the PARENT
Everyone was talking about Minecraft. I think the main point is just plainly obvious, and that's why no one was talking about it. It's a joke this kid can just go strolling through his house loading up on weapons and then take them into school, what were the parent/s doing?!
-
Seriously? The point is that the parents (or the dad) is an utter idiot. Who lets their son goes to school with such instruments? It doesn't matter whether the minecraft thing is true. The response to this is not about the kid. Its all about the PARENT
Everyone was talking about Minecraft. I think the main point is just plainly obvious, and that's why no one was talking about it. It's a joke this kid can just go strolling through his house loading up on weapons and then take them into school, what were the parent/s doing?!
Not following their child around 24/7? Not searching their child's backpack every morning? Not being the NSA?
The dad was at least smart enough to make sure the weapon wouldn't fire as is, which is a Hell of a lot more than you can say for some of the other parents out there in similar cases.
-
Not following their child around 24/7? Not searching their child's backpack every morning? Not being the NSA?
The dad was at least smart enough to make sure the weapon wouldn't fire as is, which is a Hell of a lot more than you can say for some of the other parents out there in similar cases.
You've said enough to make me stop and think. If the gun cannot be fired, I suppose everything is okay. I'm not keen on the child even being able to get these things, although I'm not sure what you can really do about the kitchen knife. And I certainly sympathise with it being something you just wouldn't expect at all.
I also imagined the child just picking these things up right before they went to school and the parent/s being too busy/oblivious to notice. But we don't know when he got them. Or however many other kids might have been running around.
-
Not following their child around 24/7? Not searching their child's backpack every morning? Not being the NSA?
The dad was at least smart enough to make sure the weapon wouldn't fire as is, which is a Hell of a lot more than you can say for some of the other parents out there in similar cases.
If the dad was any sort of intelligent, his gun wouldn't be in an unlocked drawer (or the ammunition for that matter)
The gun is really the only thing that can be traced back to parental failure anyhow. Anything else is entirely on the kid.
-
The gun should have been locked up and wtf, charging a nine year old?
Id say the kid is the least crazy of those involved.
-
The weapon couldn't fire, so all is well.
Without the pin, it is dead weight and as much of a danger as a water pistol.
-
Parental responsibility, what's that?
Apparently, there are several mistakes around here. First is not to educate the kid about using the gun and then leaving the gun accessible. Either you go shooting with your kid at very young age and follow very closely everything he does, or don't let him have any sort of access to firearms or pellet guns at all. And I mean the weapon itself, without any bullets.
Second mistake is to leave ammunition available thinking that to be safe. It is more than likely that the kids WILL take the bullets themselves if they can get them. And that's about equally dangerous condition when you start to think about it. I don't want to list things here about what you can do solely with the ammunition, use your imagination.
-
The weapon couldn't fire, so all is well.
Without the pin, it is dead weight and as much of a danger as a water pistol.
I sarcastically welcome you to go to into any public place waving an unloaded or pin-less firearm around and then tell me that all is well.
-
Nice way to cover your ass, using a game that does not feature firearms.
The parent should be punished with a permanent ban to use any and all kinds of weapons for showing such incompetence at safekeeping them.
-
Actually, Minecraft is fairly easy to mod. Just because it has no guns by default, doesn't mean the kid didn't download something that added them. Also, he could've been playing Guncraft, which is like Minecraft, but with guns and FPS-style gameplay (just when you thought it couldn't get any dumber...). Really, all that stupid kid needs is a good, solid ban on his computer. The only think his father did wrong was to store the gun improperly, but since the firing pin was out, I don't think it warrants that much punishment. Actually, all this fuss could make him lock that pistol in some high place, so the little brat won't take it again.
-
is there a mod for flaming intolerance javelins though
-
I know Rome 2 has flaming javelins, but I don't think they are made of ignorance.
-
the measure of removing the firing pin is actually pretty smart by american standards. in absence of any actual gun storage laws he still managed to take measures that the gun was not capable of being fired by the child. probibly not the best measures but anything is better than nothing. the only thing more absurd than american gun laws is american schools.
-
Yet he left the ammo accesible, it's only a matter of luck.
1 out of 1000 times, the one with access to bullets will know another one with a functional gun but no access to ammo. They can connect the dots just as easily as I did now.
-
granted the ammo is dangerous by itself, and yea if he knew someone with a gun that took the same kind of ammo, that could be dangerous. but you are missing the obvious point and that is nobody died. things could have gone worse had the firing pin still been in the gun. im not saying that everyone with both guns and kids should remove all their firing pins and stick the guns and ammo in an unlocked drawer, but i am saying what he did could have potentially saved lives. half measures are better than no measures.
-
The weapon couldn't fire, so all is well.
Without the pin, it is dead weight and as much of a danger as a water pistol.
I sarcastically welcome you to go to into any public place waving an unloaded or pin-less firearm around and then tell me that all is well.
Given how accurate toys today look, and that it's a 9-year old, I'd think most people would assume it's a toy gun and move along.
Worst case scenario (in this case): some people get scared. I also doubt a 9-year old kid is threatening enough to cause a stampede.
-
Note, in America, there's a law requiring all non-real guns to have their tips painted orange, precisely for that reason. A gun without an orange tip would've been a reason to worry.
-
Given how accurate toys today look, and that it's a 9-year old, I'd think most people would assume it's a toy gun and move along.
Quite the opposite - law enforcement officers are trained to treat any gun-looking object as if it were the real deal.
And a real, operational firearm in the hands of a nine-year-old is very much a cause for concern. Nine-year-olds don't really have the mental faculties to comprehend the risks associated to firearms and should never handle them in any case*. So even if the gun itself was secured and not in operating condition, the response to it could easily have been a lethal one.
Worst case scenario (in this case): some people get scared. I also doubt a 9-year old kid is threatening enough to cause a stampede.
Worst case scenario in this case is that he would have been playing with the gun in public, someone called a police who didn't know how to deal with a kid holding a firearm, tried the standard approach of pointing gun at the person holding firearm, telling them to put the weapon down and all that jazz, scaring the child, he points the gun at the police officer, they fire at him as is pretty much the SOP when police officers are threatened with a firearm.
The severity of the reaction here was not inappropriate, but its target was. Nine-year-old cannot be held culpable of these kind of events, whereas grown-ups should be responsible for the lethal and lethal-looking stuff they own for whatever reason.
*I'm talking about actual firearms here. Young children have no place operating cars or heavy machinery because they don't understand the risks associated with them, they don't have the situational awareness and attention span of a normally developed adult. Similarly, they should have no access to lethal weaponry such as firearms. It really boggles my mind how the US population have no problem with requiring a driver's license, while having this insane aversion against some mandatory training or age requirements for owning a firearm.
If we're talking about a family hobby, there are other devices that are more suitable to children, which can be used to familiarize them with the concepts and safety rules of firearms. BB guns (both air pistols and longer types), airsoft/paintball, and archery are all much safer than actual firearms.
-
If we're talking about a family hobby, there are other devices that are more suitable to children, which can be used to familiarize them with the concepts and safety rules of firearms. BB guns (both air pistols and longer types), airsoft/paintball, and archery are all much safer than actual firearms.
The only thing that makes archery less lethal is that accidental discharge risk is lower. A properly drawn bow can be just as lethal as a firearm, and there's very little difference regarding safety between a crossbow and a rifle. People tend to underestimate those things, plus they're much less popular, meaning they don't get much press, but fooling around with a drawn bow is just as dangerous as with a loaded pistol. I found BB guns to be a good introduction, because they neither require strength like a bow does, nor do they have noticeable recoil, which makes them easy to handle while staying reasonably accurate ("look where the ball is flying" works in paintball and cheap airsoft guns, but it's a poor habit for rifle shooting). While they can still be dangerous, they're much less destructive.
-
I dunno. Disregarding crossbows for the moment, a bow is a lot more noticeable and natural to me then a gun. It (or rather, the arrow) is point, heavy, has a noticeable speed and travel time and requires significant effort to draw. A gun (especially a hand gun) is small, abstract and incredibly easy to fire and isn't as easy to build the mistake=pain connection in my mind. A bow is also more difficult to conceal for a 9 yr old to bring to school to show their friends. I have trouble imagining 16th Century gangster movies involving bandits waving fully drawn bows at each other and accidentally shooting Marvin in the face in the back of a horse drawn carriage... which is an interesting mental image for me to come up with.
-
If you want something that is hard to conceal, buy a long rifle. It's just as hard to hide in a kid's backpack. I was talking about overall safety of a bow, remember that instead of taking it to school (pretty much only possible with a handgun or some sort, and also a risk with short BB guns), a kid may also have an idea to start messing with it at home. It's somewhat clumsier than a rifle, but due to strength required to hold it drawn, it's easier to accidentally release once drawn. This could be rather deadly, bows are often underestimated, but they're more powerful than many BB guns. At those ranges, travel time is negligible.
-
I'm fully aware of the potential hazards associated with bow and arrows. But, the thing with archery is that it takes significantly more skill and practice to even get the arrow to fly. The amount of coordination and ability required is much greater than what is needed to pull the trigger of a loaded firearm.
Additionally, small children are physically incapable of using adult-sized bows. They need to use smaller bows with shorter draw length (which determines arrow length and, generally, weight), shorter limbs of the bow, and much lower draw weight. These things make the arrows used generally have quite short range and penetration; although they will still be dangerous if fired at a living target, it is much less likely to have a fatal accident when the act requires so much more than a squeeze of trigger.
In short... guns are always loaded, bows only when the arrow is drawn.
EDIT: Additionally, it's nearly impossible to fatally injure yourself with an arrow. It's possible to shoot yourself through the hand if the arrow is too short, and I guess it's vaguely possible to shoot yourself in the foot, and if the bow breaks I guess with bad luck some splinter or piece could get your eye, but it would be a very unlikely to fatally injure oneself in an archery mishap...
-
where i live its not uncommon to see a 10 year old in the back yard shooting targets/birds/squirrels with a .22 rifle, or to take 3 year olds on hunting trips. i think i was 8 the first time i fired a gun, respected them every since.
-
is this thread still alive? oh my wat am i doin
-
It was posted in
3 hours 11 minutes before your post, so yes it's still alive.
-
Seriously? They must be getting desperate if they start throwing their flaming ignorance javelins at Minecraft.
They?
It's the father blaming minecraft, not the media
-
FLAMING IGNORANCE JAVELINS
-
What ignorance? He's probably right, though the game in question is more likely to be Guncraft or a mod. I've got a brother around that age and it seems precisely like something he would do. He loves imitating characters from cartoons and games, the dumber, the better. Children have trouble telling games from reality, and that's how it manifests.
-
Children have trouble telling games from reality, and that's how it manifests.
BULL****.
There are several studies that debunk that notion.
-
Children have trouble telling games from reality, and that's how it manifests.
BULL****.
There are several studies that debunk that notion.
But it's true MP, when I was a small child I had an episode after playing Dark Forces II Jedi Knight. I went to a Honda robotics seminar on a school field trip that ended in tragedy. Poor ASIMO came walking out on stage and I immediately ran up and thrashed him mercilessly and demanded he hand over my father's disk because I assumed he was 8t88. It was only after several failed attempts at force pushing the angry Honda techs away that I realized I wasn't Kyle Katarn.
-
Children have trouble telling games from reality, and that's how it manifests.
Difficulty telling games from reality is very different from having a powerful imagination.
Example: When I was about 8, I decided that it would be cool to run away from home. I packed a tiny duffel bag with some clothes and snakes snacks, plugged the cord of my NES Zapper into the bag, stuck the zapper in my waistband, and was set to go. Not for a second did I contemplate actually running away or that somehow magically the zapper would actually zap anything, but I was dressed, kitted out, and ready to go. It felt cool.
-
Children have trouble telling games from reality, and that's how it manifests.
Difficulty telling games from reality is very different from having a powerful imagination.
Example: When I was about 8, I decided that it would be cool to run away from home. I packed a tiny duffel bag with some clothes and snakes, plugged the cord of my NES Zapper into the bag, stuck the zapper in my waistband, and was set to go. Not for a second did I contemplate actually running away or that somehow magically the zapper would actually zap anything, but I was dressed, kitted out, and ready to go. It felt cool.
Is this an amusing correction by the spellcheck which is supposed to be snacks? :)
-
Is this an amusing correction by the spellcheck which is supposed to be snacks? :)
Sure :nervous:
-
Difficulty telling games from reality is very different from having a powerful imagination.
Example: When I was about 8, I decided that it would be cool to run away from home. I packed a tiny duffel bag with some clothes and snakes snacks, plugged the cord of my NES Zapper into the bag, stuck the zapper in my waistband, and was set to go. Not for a second did I contemplate actually running away or that somehow magically the zapper would actually zap anything, but I was dressed, kitted out, and ready to go. It felt cool.
It it varies between children. StarSlayer's example shows that he was honestly convinced he's Kyle Katarn. I've got two younger brothers and they also had episodes like this (nothing this serious, though, but annoying to no end). I remember doing that with my sister, too, though with TV cartoons and movies as well as games (we were very creative :) ). I'm sure there are other people with childhood stories like that. Those "studies that debunk that notion" might be true for children who happened to participate in them, but not for the entire population. I suppose I should've said "There are children who have trouble telling reality from games".
-
Wat. I'm pretty damn sure StarSlayer was being sarcastic, Dragon. :wtf:
-
Indeed he was. One should take care to separate the deep immersion into stuff they like that kids are capable of, and an actual loss of real-world awareness. The latter is much, much rarer.
-
Indeed he was. One should take care to separate the deep immersion into stuff they like that kids are capable of, and an actual loss of real-world awareness. The latter is much, much rarer.
...and is diagnosed as a psychological disorder.
-
Wat. I'm pretty damn sure StarSlayer was being sarcastic, Dragon. :wtf:
Maybe he was, I can't really tell (I don't usually use sarcasm on internet because of this problem). It sounds plausible to me, kids do the weirdest things. Anyway, I was serious. :) I did have some problems telling fiction from reality, though often, this would simply take form of asking stupid questions. I'm pretty sure my younger brothers had it too, but it's hard to tell for anyone but myself. So it can happen, though I was hardly a normal child (so don't tell me about "diagnosed psychological disorders" :) I was diagnosed with a lot of stuff). None of us knows this kid, so it's hard to say for certain. Psychology isn't physics, any general statement is going to have numerous exceptions to it, people are just that diverse.
Regardless of that, deep immersion "playing" can have similar results, especially if a kid doesn't know just how serious matter a gun is. It's rather natural that kids are interested in things their parents use, especially if they also appear in some media. For example, I loved messing with our cars, though thankfully, aside from turning on the turn signals, spilling the power steering fluid misaligning the seats and mirrors and honking the horn (rarely, because parents quickly chased me out if I did that :)), I couldn't do much with it. There's no telling what I would've done if the keys were in the ignition, but they weren't (or if the parking brake was easier to release...). Of course, re-enecting "car scenes" from cartoons was a common pastime of both me and my sister. Now that I think of it (and remember how silly I used to be), it's perfectly possible that he was also "playing the guncraft guy" or something like that. I can certainly imagine myself doing that, if I wasn't specifically instructed to keep off the gun (I usually listened when told to keep clear of something dangerous. The "forbidden fruit" never really appealed to me).
Someone will most likely say it's all anecdotal evidence, but since I'm postulating this is possible, one example is enough. Unless somebody who knows the kid in question really well posts here, we'll never know what he was thinking. I think the kid's father is mostly right in this case, simply because he would know his child better than any of us. His explanation certainly sounds plausible to me.
-
Yeah, that was a joke. For the record I did not go all Yoshimi at a Honda robotics conference.
-
Well, given all the crazy stuff children (and indeed, sometimes adults too!) can do, this sounded plausible to me. :) The only thing that's not right with it is that you probably wasn't that young by the time they could've showed ASIMO to a school trip (during it's early years, it was only shown at really big events). Given that one guy on another forum I lurk on once nearly starved his dog by telling his younger brother (in charge of feeding it) that they were fattening it for slaughter (thankfully, parents caught on and finally fed the poor thing), you'd better be careful when making jokes like that. I myself have a few childhood stories like that, though a bit less destructive. Common sense takes a while to develop, sometimes a long while. :)
-
Well, given all the crazy stuff children (and indeed, sometimes adults too!) can do, this sounded plausible to me. :) The only thing that's not right with it is that you probably wasn't that young by the time they could've showed ASIMO to a school trip (during it's early years, it was only shown at really big events). Given that one guy on another forum I lurk on once nearly starved his dog by telling his younger brother (in charge of feeding it) that they were fattening it for slaughter (thankfully, parents caught on and finally fed the poor thing), you'd better be careful when making jokes like that. I myself have a few childhood stories like that, though a bit less destructive. Common sense takes a while to develop, sometimes a long while. :)
You're making me very curious about your stories. :)
I have a friend who at 3 got his first look at Superman and immediately went to the top of the stairs, stuck his fist out in front of him, and jumped.
He was okay thankfully.
-
think of it as a physics lesson.
-
Maybe he was, I can't really tell (I don't usually use sarcasm on internet because of this problem). It sounds plausible to me, kids do the weirdest things. Anyway, I was serious. :)
You can't get more obvious sarcasm than that, Dragon. No wall of text is going to change that.
-
this sounded plausible to me. :)
Never go full Kazan. (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=26705.msg536657#msg536657)
-
jesus that thread is filled with children! annoyin brats all AMIRITE!
-
Dere's CLANGERS on de mOOn, maaaaaaaaaan! :lol: