Hard Light Productions Forums
Community Projects => The FreeSpace Upgrade Project => Topic started by: knn on May 03, 2005, 08:03:12 am
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(http://lh5.google.com/Nx.devnull/R6mY4fNmi4I/AAAAAAAAAG0/NHDXYx5J480/s400/iceni.jpg) (http://picasaweb.google.com/Nx.devnull/Iceni/photo#5163826543975631746)
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That's a nice start, but 3k polygons are a bit too much for this ammount of detail.
Try to use less smoothing for the engines and more detail on the hull.
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If you can glowpoint the thing, I can actually re-create Mono03 in-game, finally!
(I actually made the mission, just hte iceni model sucked...)
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Why Grasshopper?
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My question is...how do you convert fs2 models to where I can edit them. When I convert them I never can edit them or the faces are inverted.
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I think there are 2 or 3 curved areas on the engines, that have the effect of making the polycount inconsistent with the overall level of detail.
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I think it's rahter good the way it is. "Detailed" Doesn't mean having blocks sticking out of every flat surface.
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Nice start.
The "head" needs more detail....and a cutsom map. Some window-rows à la HTL-Aelous would rock.
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Do Bosch looking out of a window! Now THAT would be pretty damn good :D
(albiet, somewhat impossible, I'd guess....)
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@kietotheworld: it looks like a grasshopper without legs.
@Thrilla: PCS-convert to cob (don't forget to set the conversion ratio to 1 before, it's 20 by default, meaning the result will be 1/20 of the original) ; Truespace - save as DXF. Almost everything can read DXF. If the faces are inverted you need a unify normals tool. I don't know which program you're using, but in Max it's called Normals modifier, and it has a unify normals option. Max does this when importing DXF though. You should also weld the vertices which are in the same place, by using a weld tool with a very small threshold (0,01 meters is okay). If you don't do that, every triangle will have it's own vertex in the same place where more triangles meet.
1+----------+2
| \ |
| \ |
| \ |
| \ |
| \ |
| \ |
4+----------+3
There would be 2-2 vertices instead of 1-1 at point 1 and 3 and because DXF faces have to have 4 points, each triangle would actually have one extra vertex, so you would end up with 8 instead of 4.
I think it's rahter good the way it is. "Detailed" Doesn't mean having blocks sticking out of every flat surface.
Thanks. That's exactly what I wanted to say. It's much better if someone actually agrees.
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Put more effort into the nose and possible apply some better textures. Besides, it's quite good. Of course, because of its big size, it can't be as good as the much smaller Hercules.
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I'd say do more with the areas around the windows more than anything else. The engines are oversmoothed, as has been said already, but that shouldn't be too big of a problem. Especially if your polycount includes the HTL turrets.
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For possible inspiration: http://jonrhien.com/JordanNET/images/event%20horizon%20movie%20poster%202.jpg
It always strikes me how similar the head of the Event Horuzon is to the one of the Iceni (or Hecate)
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Here's an idea, include a destroyable, non-targettable submodel to represent the ETAK device or its trasmitter or something. Then, using the new subsystem audio code (introduced by WMC IIRC) you can give it some cool pulsing sound like an active sonar on a sub.
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I personaly felt confident that the ETAK was entirely interior but, each to his own.
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Originally posted by Col. Fishguts
For possible inspiration: http://jonrhien.com/JordanNET/images/event%20horizon%20movie%20poster%202.jpg
that movie was so awesome.
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Originally posted by knn
@kietotheworld: it looks like a grasshopper without legs.
What the hell? :wtf:
Anyway, yeah, I like what you're doing with it, but custom up the head and try to e a bit more poly efficient. Turrets are pretty cool BTW.
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The old head is gone, the new one is rounded. The polycount (everything included) is just below 4k. I will also modify the rear and remove some unneaded detail you cannot notice because of the textures.
BTW, Black Wolf look at the ship from the side and draw three legs to it.
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I dunno. I always considered the Hecate the grasshopper, but hey...
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New screenies? :)
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Originally posted by Admiral Nelson
New screenies? :)
Maybe he updated the original ones? :doubt:
Looks good by the way, thanks for taking the time to do this! I always thought the Iceni was pretty cool, so it's nice to see it get a face lift. :)
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Originally posted by Ulala
Maybe he updated the original ones? :doubt:
No he didn't. But give him some time.
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Originally posted by FireCrack
I personaly felt confident that the ETAK was entirely interior but, each to his own.
I'd imagine the same, IMO ETAK was more likely to be primarily a computer translation & encoding program than any form of physical hardware.
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We don't really have assuming that ETAK is special, detroyable device of its own. For all we know, it might be intergrated into the whole ship. Or it might just be specialized comm programming. Whether you think. The possibilites are so many.
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Oh my god, the Iceni looks pretty good than the original. I can"t wia tanylonger for his released :p
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Originally posted by MetalDestroyer
Oh my god, the Iceni looks pretty good than the original. I can"t wia tanylonger for his released :p
Judging from the way your spelling has gone to hell it sure looks that way :p
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No new pics for now, be patient. Instead, I'll try to reply to the posts. So, first of all, I'm not going to make new textures. I can't do it, period. There are much much much better texture artists out there than me. Second, I'm not planning to make a destroyable ETAK submodel because that wouldn't be canon. And besides it's probably a software program, not a huge device sticking out of the ship. I'll make glowpoints too, and I'm planning to make a Saphah mod for Derelict (a new model, not just a reskin). Now that's not 100% sure, so don't get too excited.
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I doubt it's a software program. It was stated ingame that an etak device was being built on the iceni.
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ETAK had schematics, from what I gathered, and that that was what command wanted from the Iceni before it went boomy-bye.
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Oups, i didn't check my post ^^ sorry for mistakes.
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Could be that the ETAK device enabled communication with Shivan ships. Who says Shivans use the same comm equipment as humans?
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Maybe they do, only in a different way?
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Considering they use quantum pulses, I doubt it...
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Ok, but it's still not a huge something sticking out of the ship
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yeah, we've all agreed on that. ;)
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I never suggested that such a submodel would need to be huge. It could be something like a dish or wacky AWACS dome half the size of the multi-part turrets, located underneath the "head"... for example... but its your model, not mine.
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I always thought ETAK was more like a translator, and that the transmission itself still rode on the normal comm systems. The Shivan ship trying to transmit on an allied channel backs that up a little too.
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ETAK must be some sort of physical device, as it seems to need battery and power maintainence.
Link (http://www.etaksystems.com/)
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*kicks Admiral Nelson*
I agree with stratt on this one. 's what I gathered, too.
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no, ETAK was a completely different device, it use d quantum pulses to communicate, not normal comm equipment,
if it was simply a new frequency and language, it'd be a somewhat less important seeming thing and it woudlnt have taken years of research and a coverup rebellion to do
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Any updates on the model?
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If ETAK was external it would play hell with 'catch the Iceni' Missions. You'd have to add an invulnerable-subsystem (Is there such a SEXP?) SEXP otherwise FS2's story would be ****ed up pretty bad.
Are you going to add this model to the Asteroid Base (Boudecia) (sp?) Model as well?
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Originally posted by kietotheworld
If ETAK was external it would play hell with 'catch the Iceni' Missions. You'd have to add an invulnerable-subsystem (Is there such a SEXP?) SEXP otherwise FS2's story would be ****ed up pretty bad.
There is a subsystem-guardian-threshold sexp, where you can customize at what point a subsystem on a ship becomes invulnerable.
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it was his damaged ETAK device that caused Bosch to send the message "hey guys, come kill my crew and take me away to be tortured and eaten" instead of "hey, all you shivans, we got free beer" as he intended
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..ETAK was ON the Iceni? :nervous: *Feels he's about to be beaten with rocks*
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Originally posted by Turambar
no, ETAK was a completely different device, it use d quantum pulses to communicate, not normal comm equipment,
if it was simply a new frequency and language, it'd be a somewhat less important seeming thing and it woudlnt have taken years of research and a coverup rebellion to do
Quantum pulses? From what I remember from the Tech Room, Shivans communicate through the electromagnetic spectrum. In fact, your ship picks up communications between the Iceni and the Shivans during the one nebula mission. That kind of shoots the "massive new device" theory out of the water. I always thought that the Shivans communicated in the normal spectrum, but that their communications were completely incomprehensible; that Bosch managed to get data from an Ancient archaeological site that enabled him to decrypt Shivan transmissions. Regardless, I don't think adding a big honkin' radar dish to the Iceni would do much for its looks. :p
/beats Grimloq with rocks :p
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I'd tihnk that the ETAK device is actually small and probably can be moved around by a man or two - remember, bosch had to have taken it with him on the Shivan transport, otherwise communication would have been rather difficult, now wouldn't it?
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Shivan: *Gesturing with claws* scritch scritch scritch scritch!!!!
Bosch: Uhm...me love you long time?
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No, it definetly uses quantum pulses as is mentioned numerous times throught FS2.
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see! i'm not crazy
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The command briefing of "Return to Babel" does mention quantum pulses, but that doesn't make too much sense, considering that you hear Shivan communications on an allied channel in "Speaking in Tongues." I wonder what was meant by "quantum pulses" in the first place.
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Originally posted by Mongoose
Quantum pulses? From what I remember from the Tech Room, Shivans communicate through the electromagnetic spectrum. In fact, your ship picks up communications between the Iceni and the Shivans during the one nebula mission. That kind of shoots the "massive new device" theory out of the water. I always thought that the Shivans communicated in the normal spectrum, but that their communications were completely incomprehensible; that Bosch managed to get data from an Ancient archaeological site that enabled him to decrypt Shivan transmissions. Regardless, I don't think adding a big honkin' radar dish to the Iceni would do much for its looks. :p
Um, Bosch's investigations into the Ancients was in order to locate and learn how to activate the Knossos device. It was stated in certain command briefings (audio files for SM303 command briefings in the stu VP file), that Bosch resurrected a defunct GTI project involving captured Shivan specimins. From this, we can deduce that data recovered by Bosch concerning this project, was the key to deciphering Shivan language, and likely also contained information on how Shivans communicate between ships, using the quantum pulses. So, we would have a translation matrix aboard the ship, which likely would have been part of a separate computer system, so that no one aboard unauthorized could access it. It would also allow it to be removed from the ship, as stated by the Iceni crew in that mission. I'm also guessing that if the GTI project gave Bosch the data to create the quantum pulse controler, then quantum pulses is likely something that the rest of the GTVA doesn't have the technology to control, and thus wouldn't be a standard component an any ship. This doesn't necessarily indicate one way or another that the device which controls the Quantum Pulses requires an external antenae of some sort, but it doesn't negate it either. I just think it would be a cool addition to the model, as long as its not too large or distracting.
As for the communications in "Speaking In Tounges" on an allied channel, lets just say that this is one instance among many, where FS contradicts itself.
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im sure if i had a quantum pulse emmitter right next to my radio itd make some fuzzy sounds
so hows that model coming?
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Originally posted by Trivial Psychic
Um, Bosch's investigations into the Ancients was in order to locate and learn how to activate the Knossos device. It was stated in certain command briefings (audio files for SM303 command briefings in the stu VP file), that Bosch resurrected a defunct GTI project involving captured Shivan specimins. From this, we can deduce that data recovered by Bosch concerning this project, was the key to deciphering Shivan language, and likely also contained information on how Shivans communicate between ships, using the quantum pulses. So, we would have a translation matrix aboard the ship, which likely would have been part of a separate computer system, so that no one aboard unauthorized could access it. It would also allow it to be removed from the ship, as stated by the Iceni crew in that mission. I'm also guessing that if the GTI project gave Bosch the data to create the quantum pulse controler, then quantum pulses is likely something that the rest of the GTVA doesn't have the technology to control, and thus wouldn't be a standard component an any ship. This doesn't necessarily indicate one way or another that the device which controls the Quantum Pulses requires an external antenae of some sort, but it doesn't negate it either. I just think it would be a cool addition to the model, as long as its not too large or distracting.
As for the communications in "Speaking In Tounges" on an allied channel, lets just say that this is one instance among many, where FS contradicts itself.
The term they used was "emits and modulates". Sound like a neat idea, but everything would depend on how it'd look like in the end.
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Sorry for the long wait, but I had a few things to do (including the reformat of my hard drive and the installation process which took me days). So, here's the new head:
(http://tinypic.com/54x8ht)
(http://tinypic.com/54x91i)
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Put some details on the lower part of the head and it's done!
:yes:
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:jaw:
that's amazing. :yes:
eh, what modelling program are you using?
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I tried to improve the head, but the result is a bit funny:
(http://tinypic.com/55hyjr)
(http://tinypic.com/55hyq1)
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What's so funny? Windows.
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The chamferbox that looks like a mouth makes the face look funny
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I don't see it. Don't worry about it.
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Originally posted by TopAce
What's so funny? Windows.
They aren't (or shouldn't be) windows - the Iceni is more than 650m tall - those "windows'd" have to be ridiculously big, on the order of a hundred metres or so
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FS is also not know for its proportions...
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Originally posted by TopAce
FS is also not know for its proportions...
It's not as bad as it would be if those were windows. Hell - it's not all that bad in most cases as it is.
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Hmm... I like it, but it looks kind of... plain.
Here's a few suggestions...
A ) Maybe make some more armour-plating/greebling stuff on the sides. It looks a bit bare, and without a custom texture, it'll look rotten, methinks.
B ) On the neck... I dunno. Part of me wants to beg for a tiiiiiiny bit of exposed superstructure, but that WOULD be kinda impractical... But FS2 isn't known for practicality, is it? :p
C ) On the neck, DEFINATELY add more... I dunno. Smoothing possibly, but definately some horizontal greebling. It'll give it more of an appearance of extending and neck-likeness, rather than just a bland extension. *Shrugs*
Just my two cents ^^;
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:eek: Grimloq has returned!
although i have to agree with him on the neck. add some detail to the neck. :nod:
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...when'd he leave?
...Now...you on the other hand...
KNN: Awesome...simply awesome! Get it textured and get it ingame...do it...doo eeet!
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Too chamferred for my tastes. And I see a mustached man in the face, after the revisions.
Otherwise it's a decent start.
The roof looks like a the top of fairy tale castles, though.
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Originally posted by Corhellion
...when'd he leave?
he never posts.
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Following an extremely... bad... incident, I was forced to change my web habits from posting a lot and being sociable, to lurking and staying away from more than 3-person chats.
...And I'm surprised... Somebody actaully noticed I sort of vanished?
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we love you grimmy
(and we want you to finish the hecate)
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Whoops, the email notification system failed again... I didn't get any emails and I thought the thread was dead.
Anyway, the moustache is the mouth I was talking about... removed. I still don't know what to do with the face, I'm not sure if the two long thingies should stay or not.
Thanks for the suggestions Grimloq, I'll see what I can do.
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My suggestion:
(http://n.ethz.ch/student/ebuerli/download/Iceni_suggestion.jpg)
Excuse the crappy hand drawn style, but you get the idea. The bright dots are supposed to be "bridge windows", the darker lines some embossed armor plating thingies.
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Am i the only one who cringes whenever you see Bridge Windows or a Bridge right at the front of a SpaceShip, essentially where most of the firepower of an enemy ship is going to impact. Sure, it looks good, but it'd make much more sense to have the Bridge of a ship farther back in a more sheltered area, you lose the view, but you also lose the fear that at the smallest hint of fire, your 'windows' will smash and you'll experience the delightful pleasure explosive decompression bequeaths upon one's body...
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Its not glass though. Its the toughest transparent material known to man. For security reasons they don't make entire ships out of them though.
:p
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no there not bridge windows there observation decks, but still i dunno how well glass(assuming it's glass, plastic is more likely) is at resisting helios bombs
-oohal
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It's the basic Executor Arguement, in RotJ, this ludicrously gigantic ship, the SSD Executor, was destroyed because this piddy little fighter smashed into the Bridge, which was in a really damn exposed place! Had the bridge been in the middle of the damn ship, that could never happen...so really, bridges should have no windows at all, hell, a ship realistically shouldn't have many windows to begin with, they're just hull breaches waiting to happen...
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exposed or not the weapons on a SSD are so immense no one would have thought that it could get close.
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Originally posted by Mefustae
It's the basic Executor Arguement, in RotJ, this ludicrously gigantic ship, the SSD Executor, was destroyed because this piddy little fighter smashed into the Bridge, which was in a really damn exposed place! Had the bridge been in the middle of the damn ship, that could never happen...so really, bridges should have no windows at all, hell, a ship realistically shouldn't have many windows to begin with, they're just hull breaches waiting to happen...
Since you can't kill anything larger than a bomber with collisions, I think windows can be made.
Talking about windows:
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Didn't someone say once that the windows of a JCB, or something like that, are the strongest thing on it?
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The Executor was an exception - they lost their shields and were under *stupid* orders to stand ground no matter what.
...and probably every Stardestroyer has *real metal* shutters to protect the bridge in such an event.
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The Imperial fleet relied so much on its precious shields that when they went down, they got 0wned really fast. They're great if you're fighting isolated rebels and pirates, not so much when you're facing a whole fleet.
Mon Calamari were smart and implemented backup shield systems.
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The Executor also lost it's fire-control system, (destruction of the dome) and was thus unable to hit the nimble A-Wing before it hit.
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I`m on holiday right now, so I can`t work on the model, however I have a completely new model in my head, I know how to model the head and the rear to look much better. I`ll try to draw some drafts later and scan them, but don`t expect me to start working on it until August. Sorry
BTW, the neck will have superstructure, I`ve removed the fairy tale castle roof.
About the Executor: yup, the shields were down, I think there`s a mission in XWAlliance to take down the shield generators, and in SW3 we could see that the command ship had shutters, so I guess imperial ships also had them. However, the AWing hit so hard it completely destroyed the bridge of the otherwise heavily damaged ship. It would`ve been destroyed w/o that AWing
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As far as I'm concerned the destruction of the Executor was a freak accident.
LOL.
back on topic, i think we can get away with windows on the front of the iceni because almost every darn sci-fi known to man has them (COUGH ENTERPRISE-D'S TEN FORWARD COUGH) --- so...i dont see a reason to argue with it. So long as it looks good and fits in Freespace 2's universe, it's all good
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Its not glass though. Its the toughest transparent material known to man. For security reasons they don't make entire ships out of them though.
It'd make a great poor-man's cloaking device though. It'd be a bit embarassing when someone had to go to the John, but, well, in a battle situation it might be a useful distraction. :p
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Look at the size of that thing! (About the distractions part...)
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Originally posted by Mefustae
Am i the only one who cringes whenever you see Bridge Windows or a Bridge right at the front of a SpaceShip, essentially where most of the firepower of an enemy ship is going to impact. Sure, it looks good, but it'd make much more sense to have the Bridge of a ship farther back in a more sheltered area, you lose the view, but you also lose the fear that at the smallest hint of fire, your 'windows' will smash and you'll experience the delightful pleasure explosive decompression bequeaths upon one's body...
How else will you be able to see where you're going? :confused:
;)
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I don`t agree with you Gregster. The Hecate, the Deimos, the Iceni, they all have a big, windowless, heavily armored and armed front, they look like they were designed for frontal assault (but they are not so good at it, especially the Hecate).
As far as I'm concerned the destruction of the Executor was a freak accident.
It was, that`s what I said, but the Executor would`ve been destroyed anyway. For a movie, this looks better than shooting at it for 3 hours until it blows up.
Oh, and [COUGH] the Enterprise D is a diplomatic and exploration ship, not a battleship. [/COUGH] The Iceni is. It`s a "tough nut": few windows (I won`t put any on the large middle armor section and on the front), lots of armor.
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Yanno, you're right --- Iceni shouldn't have windows on the front. It should have windows in its "armpits" where armored portions give way to the soft squishy jelly goodness in the center of the donut...mmm....er..
lol.
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Originally posted by WMCoolmon
Its not glass though. Its the toughest transparent material known to man. For security reasons they don't make entire ships out of them though.
It'd make a great poor-man's cloaking device though. It'd be a bit embarassing when someone had to go to the John, but, well, in a battle situation it might be a useful distraction. :p
"See through you, we can.":p:lol:
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I'm working on the new version, go to the first page and look at the first post to see the new front
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From the personal log of Admiral Aken Bosch:
I went EVA around my ship today to inspect turret orientations. And was all the savagery and terror of my regime for this? Am I to lead humanity to its destiny in the NTF NearlyACube? Even the pharohs in their divinity could never have imagined a low poly piece of junk as this! Can knn save humanity from its fate at the hands of the destroyers and give us a worthy vessel, or must we all perish as the countless civlizations that proceeded us did???
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I kinda allways assumed the windown were of a realyl tough material and that ships had metal shutter.
When I make my warships I allways put the windows in deep indents for two reasons:
1. It's hard to hit them.
2. Leaves lots of room for thick mettalic sheilds :D ..come to think of it - they can be added with a animation SEXP.
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Allmost forgot - for the neck you might want to try the same thing I did for the Hecate neck - doesn't use much polies nad looks good too...
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I was scrolling up and reading and I wanted to point out a minor detail about that "dome." Unless I'm thinking of a totally different scene, that was a spheroid, and it was the shield generator, not fire control.
EDIT: Seems a bit odd for a ship that big to have only one shield generator, though. Maybe it was only for the bridge area.
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It has two.
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*grips Josh by the shoulders and looks deeply into his eyes*
This. Is. Not. The. Thread. For. That. Discussion.
How's the Iceni coming along? At the moment I think it needs a more extensive remodeling than what's currently being applied.
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Speaking of the Iceni, has anyone seen it in the new VP files? I've already reported this in the VP release thread, but I was wondering if anyone else had seen it. The reason, well, just take a look at this post:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,35883.msg743832.html#msg743832
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Also not the thread for THAT discussion. I haven't had the chance to check out the MediaVPs yet, but I was about to. I'll post any comments in the appropriate thread.
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From the personal log of Admiral Aken Bosch:
I went EVA around my ship today to inspect turret orientations. And was all the savagery and terror of my regime for this? Am I to lead humanity to its destiny in the NTF NearlyACube? Even the pharohs in their divinity could never have imagined a low poly piece of junk as this! Can knn save humanity from its fate at the hands of the destroyers and give us a worthy vessel, or must we all perish as the countless civlizations that proceeded us did???
Fear not humanity! Thou shall be saveth from the devils of the underworld (I hope).
After a loooong period of not modelling (and not posting) I've started working on the Iceni from zero again. The basic geometry is almost ready, with only the bottom missing. Details are missing from everywhere except the top:
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/N-x/HTLIceni07.jpg)
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/N-x/HTLIceni08.jpg)
And the engines I've made today:
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/N-x/HTLIceni09.jpg)
BTW, the turret orientations ARE incorrect in the original modell.
Allmost forgot - for the neck you might want to try the same thing I did for the Hecate neck - doesn't use much polies nad looks good too...
Yup, I had something similar in mind. Actually, my previous Iceni had something like that on the bottom of the neck, but it didn't look too good.
Now I need a good NTF logo for the nameplate. BTW, should the nameplate stay?
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Well, there was only one Iceni, so IMO the nameplate's an extravagance as far as canon goes.
On the other hand, for the rest of us in the campaign-making community, it'd be a nice thing to have...
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Forget the modelled in nameplate. Just use a simple plane slightly above the hull (or what not...)
Looks good. Are you going to rename the turrets so they are sensible order, and even (dare I say it) move one or two? That one between the lower engines on the bottom...:ick: worst place for a turret ever.
Speaking of turrets, you know you can use more that cubes for the barrels right? Eight sided cylinders are the best compromise I think.
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The profile still looks too low-poly, but the greebling you have on the top could be its saving grace if applied everywhere, with more exaggeration.
As for the NTF logo, I have a 2d and a 3D version right here.
(http://web.njit.edu/~pjo3/cbani/ntf2.jpg)
(http://web.njit.edu/~pjo3/cbani/ntf.jpg)
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Hooray! He's back...
I agree with scuppering the modelled in nameplate -- just the regular style of nameplate would be sufficient, as the Iceni model is used in other campaigns such as Derelict for other purposes.
I don't like square gun barrels, either, round 'em off! I'm sure you have noticed that some of the mirror style turrets aren't even attached to the hull of the current model!! It might be nice to have a distinct missile launcher turret, too.
Thanks for all the work!
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i actually like having the nameplate there. makes the Iceni look cooler. :D
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Not to burst any bubbles here or anything, but the center of that nameplate is in almost the exact same place as the dockpoint. The words can stay, but the center circle either needs a dockpoint map or it needs to dissapear completely.
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2D version looks better (logo)
As for the dockpint thing, you thaught that was a picture of earth? ;)
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I'm really liking the job you did with the engines :)
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ooh, just noticed:
Originally posted by knn
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/N-x/HTLIceni08.jpg)
move the top of this a bit, looks like you forgot to straighten it. ;)
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Or it could be perspective. :rolleyes:
Also; I'd like to add my voice to the "Don't model in a nameplate" crew. Nameplates are ridiculous, and I'd hate for every last iceni class vessel to have NTF emblazened on it's side.
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I would steer away from putting it in geometry. That's almost always a bad idea, as it's unmoddable and is a tremendous waste of polys. I'd put a nameplate in there, but just as a duplicate face for a transparent plate (like on the Fenris).
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Well, there was only one Iceni, so IMO the nameplate's an extravagance as far as canon goes.
It's not booleaned in yet, so it can go, but I thought it would look good with an NTF logo in the middle. I didn't know the dockpoint was there:nervous: , but the circle can be the dockpoint, with the nameplate around it (reminds me of ST:TMP)
Forget the modelled in nameplate. Just use a simple plane slightly above the hull (or what not...)
Umm, I think I should have said this, but I thought it was obvious. That's just a temporary nameplate, because I was too lazy to start up Photoshop. It' way too much polygons, it's just there for me to see how it would look finished. BTW, the nameplate is also missing from the other side, because I modell only one side usually, then mirror the whole thing.
Looks good. Are you going to rename the turrets so they are sensible order, and even (dare I say it) move one or two? That one between the lower engines on the bottom... worst place for a turret ever.
Yes, that one is in a very stupid place, but remember that this is a canon FS2 ship. I don't know yet. As for the names, I probably will, because I'll have to change the turret vectors and positions anyway.
Speaking of turrets, you know you can use more that cubes for the barrels right? Eight sided cylinders are the best compromise I think.
I'll try it, but I made the barrels cubical intentionally for the big ones. I'll make round ones and see which ones look better. For the small turrets the round ones will probably be a better choice.
The profile still looks too low-poly, but the greebling you have on the top could be its saving grace if applied everywhere, with more exaggeration.
I'm deriving some detail from the textures, but sofar I've done only the top.
As for the NTF logo, I have a 2d and a 3D version right here.
Thanks.
ooh, just noticed:
quote:Originally posted by knn
move the top of this a bit, looks like you forgot to straighten it.
that's perspective.
Also; I'd like to add my voice to the "Don't model in a nameplate" crew. Nameplates are ridiculous, and I'd hate for every last iceni class vessel to have NTF emblazened on it's side.
How about a subobject you can destroy before the mission (for the plate itself, the text won't be there)? The dockpoint will have to stay though.
I've checked. There's only one dockpoint on one side of the ship. Suggestions? (logo on one side, dockpoint on the other, or would that look stupid?)
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Originally posted by Raa
Or it could be perspective. :rolleyes:
well golly gee, excuse me for trying to be helpful.
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If you do it right, you just need to use texture replacement to give it a nameplate. That's the method most people use these days.
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Go for the nameplate, this is the flagship of the NTF Rebellion after all! In terms of the dockpoint, why not have that big circle in the middle of the nameplate emblazened (sp?) with the NTF Logo, and also be the dockpoint...! So you've got a dockpoint with the logo painted on it...! It could work... sure it could... :nervous:
EDIT: Also, whereabouts is the Bridge actually located?
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I'm sure there are others as well but atleast i would like to have a possibility to use the Iceni (not as NTF command frigate) also in some mods so IMHO do not put modelled nameplate to it. Just use the same method as in other HTLd ships.
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Wasn't the Iceni built before the rebellion anyways? So why would it have a bloody great NTF logo?
Anyways; still a bit plain, but the detailing on the top midsection looks great, so use the same sort of principle on the rest of the ship (within reason) and it'll be tip-top.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Wasn't the Iceni built before the rebellion anyways? So why would it have a bloody great NTF logo?
Indeed. It was a GTVA project, which Bosch was overseeing. When it was finished, he nicked it and apparently sunk it into the Boadicaea for 18 months... bit of a silly thing to do with a ship that powerful, but I think he was saving it for his run in with the Shivans and wanted to make sure the GTVA didn't kill it first.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Wasn't the Iceni built before the rebellion anyways? So why would it have a bloody great NTF logo?
It would be a small nameplate, it's not exactly part of the superstructure we're talking about here. Should knn put it on, the arguement could be made that he just slapped it on there either at Polaris Shipyards after the Rebellion, or when he sunk it into the Boadaecea. Either way, it'd be a great addition to the model, and would look really great illuminated with spotlight ala the Orion nameplates (but blended in so as not to stand out)
Originally posted by aldo_14
Anyways; still a bit plain, but the detailing on the top midsection looks great, so use the same sort of principle on the rest of the ship (within reason) and it'll be tip-top.
I believe that was what Knn meant by: Details are missing from everywhere except the top
he just hasn't gotten around to doing it yet... I assume...
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The Iceni always struck me as something of a blockade runner warship (it's even shaped like a battering ram); it might not even be all that effective as a combat warship in fleet action.
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Originally posted by Mefustae
It would be a small nameplate, it's not exactly part of the superstructure we're talking about here. Should knn put it on, the arguement could be made that he just slapped it on there either at Polaris Shipyards, or when he sunk it into the Boadaecea. Either way, it'd be a great addition to the model, and would look really great illuminated with spotlight ala the Orion nameplates (but blended in so as not to stand out)
Well, fair enough, but what about non NTF Iceni class ships? Derelict's Cypher for example? Why not just use a standard nameplate system the way every other HTL ship is these days?
Originally posted by aldo_14
The Iceni always struck me as something of a blockade runner warship (it's even shaped like a battering ram); it might not even be all that effective as a combat warship in fleet action.
It's none too shabby actually - beats up Deimoses no worries if the approach ancgles are right.
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Originally posted by Black Wolf
Why not just use a standard nameplate system the way every other HTL ship is these days?
...You know what you are? You're an ideas man!
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Umm, I think I should have said this, but I thought it was obvious. That's just a temporary nameplate, because I was too lazy to start up Photoshop. It' way too much polygons, it's just there for me to see how it would look finished. BTW, the nameplate is also missing from the other side, because I modell only one side usually, then mirror the whole thing.
I still think I wasn't clear enough.
I'm sure there are others as well but atleast i would like to have a possibility to use the Iceni (not as NTF command frigate) also in some mods so IMHO do not put modelled nameplate to it. Just use the same method as in other HTLd ships.
That is exactly what I am going to do. The same method first used on the HTL Fenris/Leviathan: A separate plate object located just above the surface of the ship, with a texture with green background. The green background gets cut out and only the text is displayed. By default there's no text, just a green background, and you use texture replacement to change the text.
To clarify, I've made the nameplate object, a nameplate texture, and rendered the scene without the nameplate texture and with it. I've used an opacity map to hide the white background of the nameplate texture, but that background should be green and thus hidden by the FS2 engine automatically:
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/N-x/Nameplate1.jpg)
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/N-x/NameplateIceni.jpg)
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/N-x/Nameplate2.jpg)
As you can see, part of the text cannot be seen, because it is hidden by the cylinder. That's not a problem, you just compensate for it when making the nameplate texture (i.e. you do not write there).
Anyways; still a bit plain, but the detailing on the top midsection looks great, so use the same sort of principle on the rest of the ship (within reason) and it'll be tip-top.
The ship is nowhere near completion. I'm working on it.
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Originally posted by knn
compensate for it when making the nameplate texture (i.e. you do not write there).
What if you wanted to make, say, the GTF Bellerophon?
You'd either have to break the long word up or write Bellerophon really tiny. Too much fiddling around IMO for too little gain.
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I agree with BW
Also, using green fr the nameplate tex is bad, best go for a tga wiht transperency, you can make it look better too..
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You could wrap the nameplate around the dockpoint, if you've got a program that can generate circular text easily. That'd be different without incurring the penalty of arbitrary lengths on each side.
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Okay, here's the new nameplate and dockpoint. I don't know where to put the NTF logo yet, or wether I want it on the ship at all.
NOTE1: The beam turrets are from the original model
NOTE2: The dockpoint is not final, it's just a quick 5 minute stg I made to show the placing.
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/N-x/Iceninameplate.jpg)
One more question: I'm going to start making new small turrets now, try rounded barrels and see how it looks. Should I also change the big ones to have rounded barrels, or are they okay the way they are?
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I was starting to wonder what had happened to this. Good to see it's still alive. I like that dockpoint/nameplate configuration, but watch your polycount with the roundness on the edge of that raised portion. It's a tad overboard right now.
If done properly, the squareness gives the big barrels character. Smaller turrets have been a challenge to everyone who attempts them, and no two people seem to be able to agree on how to tackle the problem. I say round out the buttons that are there, since that's the look :v: seems to have been going for.
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I was starting to wonder what had happened to this. Good to see it's still alive. I like that dockpoint/nameplate configuration, but watch your polycount with the roundness on the edge of that raised portion. It's a tad overboard right now.
If done properly, the squareness gives the big barrels character. Smaller turrets have been a challenge to everyone who attempts them, and no two people seem to be able to agree on how to tackle the problem. I say round out the buttons that are there, since that's the look :v: seems to have been going for.
buttons? where?
EDIT: (http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/N-x/barrels.jpg)
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[OFFTOPIC] Aren't edits supposed to appear as new posts on the index page?[/OFFTOPIC]
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Just as an aside, I am delighted to see that you are still working on this! :yes: The current turrets make the Iceni amazingly ugly. I am normally partial to rounded barels, but the big Orion turrets do look pretty good, for example.
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Those nameplate polies had better not be sunken in.
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Those nameplate polies had better not be sunken in.
Why?
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Because it A) arbitrarily sets a fixed length for the name plate that most nameplate's won't fit into and B) makes it really obvious it's a nameplate texture, defeating the purpose of having alpha-mapped nameplates.
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Galemp's right. The nameplate should just barely "float" above the texture that's supposed to be under it, and that texture should be relatively unbroken. No special geometry is almost always a good thing.
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Because it A) arbitrarily sets a fixed length for the name plate that most nameplate's won't fit into and B) makes it really obvious it's a nameplate texture, defeating the purpose of having alpha-mapped nameplates.
Galemp's right. The nameplate should just barely "float" above the texture that's supposed to be under it, and that texture should be relatively unbroken. No special geometry is almost always a good thing.
True. Fixed
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(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/N-x/Leg.jpg)
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/N-x/Leg2.jpg)
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Excellent work. I'm loving the level of detail.
Remember though, multipart turrets on the bottom of the ship should point backwards. I know they don't on the stock model, but they don't work correctly either.
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Excellent work. I'm loving the level of detail.
Thx
Remember though, multipart turrets on the bottom of the ship should point backwards. I know they don't on the stock model, but they don't work correctly either.
I didn't know that. Now I've got them the other way around. They're correct on the stock model, because the top ones are with their steep side forward, but when I made the new turrets, I decided to turn them because I liked them better this way.
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All topside (dorsal?) turrets should face forward and all bottom (ventral?) should be facing backwards before model is converted into a pof. Actual barrel directions and elevations can be later handled with animation code.
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All topside (dorsal?) turrets should face forward and all bottom (ventral?) should be facing backwards before model is converted into a pof. Actual barrel directions and elevations can be later handled with animation code.
Yes but when the turrets are 10 polygon boxes, it doesn't matter which side is front and which is back. Now what happened is that what I though was the front in the original model was in fact the back.
Animation code? What has that got to do with the turrets?
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Animation code makes its possible to set turret facings and barrel elevations (among other things) for models in game. Like in these here (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,35865.0.html). It's handled through ships.tbl. So that the modeller has 'only' to make sure turrets are aligned properly (dorsal - facing front, ventral - facing backwards) and then the rest is taken care of with tables.
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Animation code makes its possible to set turret facings and barrel elevations (among other things) for models in game. Like in these here (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,35865.0.html). It's handled through ships.tbl.
Oh, that's great! Thanks a million.
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Will I be beamraped by a Sathanas for moving a turret a bit?
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/N-x/movedturret.jpg)
The right one is the original.
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Nah, nobody really cares as long as it keeps the original FOV or close to it anyways.
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Originally posted by Turambar
no, ETAK was a completely different device, it use d quantum pulses to communicate, not normal comm equipment,
if it was simply a new frequency and language, it'd be a somewhat less important seeming thing and it woudlnt have taken years of research and a coverup rebellion to do
Quantum pulses? From what I remember from the Tech Room, Shivans communicate through the electromagnetic spectrum. In fact, your ship picks up communications between the Iceni and the Shivans during the one nebula mission. That kind of shoots the "massive new device" theory out of the water. I always thought that the Shivans communicated in the normal spectrum, but that their communications were completely incomprehensible; that Bosch managed to get data from an Ancient archaeological site that enabled him to decrypt Shivan transmissions. Regardless, I don't think adding a big honkin' radar dish to the Iceni would do much for its looks.
Oh for goodness' sake... I know that debate about Shivan means of communication ended ages ago, but I simply can't help throwing a short comment on it here...
I don't mean to be mean, nowhere near it, but do you people have any idea what you are talking about? Basically, the point is that Shivans use quantum pulses AKA bursts of electromagnetic radiation as their natural means of communication, just like humans and Vasudans use voice, machanical wave-motion via air.
Let me explain further: Electromagnetic radiation consists of quantum flow (photons, more specifically); short pulses of electromagnetic radiation can be considered as quantum pulses. So you are both right; most likely Shivans use the normal spectrum of radio waves and not gamma or x-rays or visible light, as we indeed can hear their signals in some missions. So, there's nothing special in quantum pulses themselves - hell, when you turn on the radio, it catches quantum pulses emitted by the transmitter kilometres away. Or your cordless mouse transmits them to the receiver, which converts them to normal USB mouse signals. Or the cell phones... Only thing special in Shivan communication is that they can directly produce the pulses they want to generate and transfer information within them quite easily, whereas we humans (and Vasudans) have to build complex things that first convert the information into electrical form (be it analog or digital), then send it modulated into carrier signal (at least three means of modulation can be used; frequency modulation, amplitude modulation or polarization modulation - of these, only FM and AM are widely used on Earth) and finally a receiver converts the signal into comprehensive form - be it text, voice or picture. The Shivans need no devices, they can produce and receive radio signals with relative ease.
On this background it's quite simple to see what ETAK actually is: It's an emulator that produces a signal comprehensive to Shivans; an emulator, if you like. The problems encountered here are:
-what frequencies do Shivans use? This is relatively easy to find out, just listen to them with radio telescope and pick the right frequencies.
-what modulation type do they use? Equally easy to find out.
-what they say and what we say to them? This is the hardest problem to sove, and does not actually require hardware, but indeed more like software, actually a decyphering tool... And, as it seems, it didn't quite go as Bosch planned it. Or who knows? Perhaps he persuaded the Shivans to leave human-vasudan space. Anyway, as it seems, ETAK is more like a powerful computer or computer program that emulates a shivan receiver/transmitter and tries to convert normal(for us) information into Shivan form and vice versa. So, it certainly wouldn't need any external special antennae - it could very well use the ships own comm subsystem, which would very likely be more than capable at operating with Shivan frequencies.
That is all. :)
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Originally posted by Turambar
no, ETAK was a completely different device, it use d quantum pulses to communicate, not normal comm equipment,
if it was simply a new frequency and language, it'd be a somewhat less important seeming thing and it woudlnt have taken years of research and a coverup rebellion to do
Quantum pulses? From what I remember from the Tech Room, Shivans communicate through the electromagnetic spectrum. In fact, your ship picks up communications between the Iceni and the Shivans during the one nebula mission. That kind of shoots the "massive new device" theory out of the water. I always thought that the Shivans communicated in the normal spectrum, but that their communications were completely incomprehensible; that Bosch managed to get data from an Ancient archaeological site that enabled him to decrypt Shivan transmissions. Regardless, I don't think adding a big honkin' radar dish to the Iceni would do much for its looks.
Oh for goodness' sake... I know that debate about Shivan means of communication ended ages ago, but I simply can't help throwing a short comment on it here...
I don't mean to be mean, nowhere near it, but do you people have any idea what you are talking about? Basically, the point is that Shivans use quantum pulses AKA bursts of electromagnetic radiation as their natural means of communication, just like humans and Vasudans use voice, machanical wave-motion via air.
Let me explain further: Electromagnetic radiation consists of quantum flow (photons, more specifically); short pulses of electromagnetic radiation can be considered as quantum pulses. So you are both right; most likely Shivans use the normal spectrum of radio waves and not gamma or x-rays or visible light, as we indeed can hear their signals in some missions. So, there's nothing special in quantum pulses themselves - hell, when you turn on the radio, it catches quantum pulses emitted by the transmitter kilometres away. Or your cordless mouse transmits them to the receiver, which converts them to normal USB mouse signals. Or the cell phones... Only thing special in Shivan communication is that they can directly produce the pulses they want to generate and transfer information within them quite easily, whereas we humans (and Vasudans) have to build complex things that first convert the information into electrical form (be it analog or digital), then send it modulated into carrier signal (at least three means of modulation can be used; frequency modulation, amplitude modulation or polarization modulation - of these, only FM and AM are widely used on Earth) and finally a receiver converts the signal into comprehensive form - be it text, voice or picture. The Shivans need no devices, they can produce and receive radio signals with relative ease.
On this background it's quite simple to see what ETAK actually is: It's an emulator that produces a signal comprehensive to Shivans; an emulator, if you like. The problems encountered here are:
-what frequencies do Shivans use? This is relatively easy to find out, just listen to them with radio telescope and pick the right frequencies.
-what modulation type do they use? Equally easy to find out.
-what they say and what we say to them? This is the hardest problem to sove, and does not actually require hardware, but indeed more like software, actually a decyphering tool... And, as it seems, it didn't quite go as Bosch planned it. Or who knows? Perhaps he persuaded the Shivans to leave human-vasudan space. Anyway, as it seems, ETAK is more like a powerful computer or computer program that emulates a shivan receiver/transmitter and tries to convert normal(for us) information into Shivan form and vice versa. So, it certainly wouldn't need any external special antennae - it could very well use the ships own comm subsystem, which would very likely be more than capable at operating with Shivan frequencies.
That is all. :)
Oh crap. I had this really nice antennae model here ;)
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Oh crap. I had this really nice antennae model here ;)
Didn't mean it couldn't have antennae... I only meant that should there be any antennae, they should not be specifically named as ETAK subsystem, but more like COMM 2 or something like that. It would actually make sense that the Iceni would have a boosted comm/sensor capacity, so it wouldn't be a bad thing if there were some additional antennae that are not visible on retail model... Just wanted to point out that the ETAK itself does not imply any additional special communication subsystems, it would more likely be a plug&play device that simplu uses ship's own comms.
It's entirely different if the additional antennae are supposed to just improve overall sensors/comms subsystems. The Iceni could really have some use on them in the Nebula...
So, what am I trying to say here? I'm getting a bit tangled... In one sentence: If the antenae fit into model, it's all good and well for me, but ETAK should have nothing to do with hardware... ;)
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Oh crap. I had this really nice antennae model here ;)
Didn't mean it couldn't have antennae... I only meant that should there be any antennae, they should not be specifically named as ETAK subsystem, but more like COMM 2 or something like that. It would actually make sense that the Iceni would have a boosted comm/sensor capacity, so it wouldn't be a bad thing if there were some additional antennae that are not visible on retail model... Just wanted to point out that the ETAK itself does not imply any additional special communication subsystems, it would more likely be a plug&play device that simplu uses ship's own comms.
It's entirely different if the additional antennae are supposed to just improve overall sensors/comms subsystems. The Iceni could really have some use on them in the Nebula...
So, what am I trying to say here? I'm getting a bit tangled... In one sentence: If the antenae fit into model, it's all good and well for me, but ETAK should have nothing to do with hardware... ;)
The Comms system is around that block below the "neck" IIRC. I though about removing it for the Cypher (GTVA's Iceni class Frigate from Derelict, a retexture originally), suggesting that it has something to do with Etak, a technology the Cypher doesn't have (I hope IRC).
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I haven't read this entire thread, but I just wanted to point out that IMO, the engines should all be perfect circles when viewed from directly behind, regardless of how they may have been stretched on the texture. Leave the oval-shaped engines to the Vasudans.
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I haven't read this entire thread, but I just wanted to point out that IMO, the engines should all be perfect circles when viewed from directly behind, regardless of how they may have been stretched on the texture. Leave the oval-shaped engines to the Vasudans.
Difficult to achieve. I'd have to add engines, probably double them on the top array.
There:
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/N-x/Iceniengines.jpg)
or
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/N-x/Iceniengines2.jpg)
or
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/N-x/Iceniengines3.jpg)
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However I could make the bottom engines more circular
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/N-x/Iceniengines4.jpg)
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Could you make the frame you're constraining the engines to follow the edge of the rear part more closely? I think that'd free up enough room to explain the rest of the change away as artistic liscence. ;) I just really dislike stretched engines. :p
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Could you make the frame you're constraining the engines to follow the edge of the rear part more closely? I think that'd free up enough room to explain the rest of the change away as artistic liscence. ;) I just really dislike stretched engines. :p
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/N-x/roundengines.jpg)
That would help for 2 of the 6 engines (though I'd still like to keep them a little bit elliptical, to fill out the space), but the top 4 would still have to be elliptical unless I remove/add engines.
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Adding/removing engines isn't a big deal balance-wise, unless that requires more subsystems. Which isn't a big deal anyways, because the Iceni isn't meant to be disabled in any mission that I can remember. (Maybe some obscure, multiplayer one?)
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Looks improved IMO. How about the rest of you - what do you think?
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I think the Iceni is Vasudan design in part (Colossuis texture), so the engines are justified and were fine as they were. (yeah yeah, NTF are against the Vasudans, no)
Besides, even if the above isn't true, it could be argued that Terran technology advancments in engines improved and use Vasudan models or whatever.
It's not so hard to explain or to imagine for the Iceni, a science experimental ship, to have oval engines.
Also, it looks much better with them being oval.
That be my opinion.
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A combination of the two would be best. For example - the two engine on the bottom sides look best rounded, IMO, as opposed to an off-angle elipse. however, the row on the top looks far better when it's eliptical, so perhaps a combinaion of the two would be beetter....
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I prefer the Oval engines.
[EDIT] Actually - Singh's right. Big Ovals up the top, circles on the smaller engine spots.
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That's what I like to see it too, ovals to the top engines, circles on the smaller ones...
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Eck...circles...is...no...good... :ick:
Ovals all the way :yes:
Detailing is coming along very very noicely!
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I wanted to make all six engines the same, it's a single array and IMHO they should be identical. I'll try a few more combinations tomorrow.
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I don't know the nature of the array you speak of (I'm new to FS2 modding) but couldn't you make two arrays, one for the top oval ones, and one for the bottom cricler one?
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I've never liked the ovals, they look too much like stretched textures to me...
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...In my opinion it should look like the textures...that's how V wanted it to look like.
Otherwise they would've given the Iceni rounded engines, but they prefered the oval ones. So there.
...either that or just do both...have one version with round engines and have one with oval engines...shouldn't be too much trouble...and it'd appease the masses.
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What if you make that entire upside-down-U shape that holds the top four [V]-stretched-texture engines ONE HUGE ENGINE EXHAUST? Just a thought. Might look visually cool to have one huge-arse engine trail streaming in a cone from there.
Yes, I've played Homeworld 2. (Yeah, that was sorta what gave me the idea.) (Yeah, I'm nuts.) (I still want to see something like this tried though.) ;)
;7
If not that though, I agree, leave it as [V] had it --- oval-shaped. Just dicker with the sizes of the ovals a bit if necessary.
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Just to avoid confusion, the "bottom" two engines are not the ones on the pods below the entire ship, they're the bottom two of the 6 top ones
Yes, I've played Homeworld 2. (Yeah, that was sorta what gave me the idea.) (Yeah, I'm nuts.) (I still want to see something like this tried though.) ;)
Me too, but I didn't notice those. Which ship is it?
I don't know the nature of the array you speak of (I'm new to FS2 modding) but couldn't you make two arrays, one for the top oval ones, and one for the bottom cricler one?
It's not a technical thing or problem, it's just a visual thing.
...In my opinion it should look like the textures...that's how V wanted it to look like.
Otherwise they would've given the Iceni rounded engines, but they prefered the oval ones. So there.
...either that or just do both...have one version with round engines and have one with oval engines...shouldn't be too much trouble...and it'd appease the masses.
IMO you're right and wrong. They could've given it 8 small circular engines plus 2 bigger circular ones on the top, that wouldn't have been a problem (except maybe they wanted to keep the number of thrusters down, to increase performance). However, they couldn't make the two bottom engines exactly the same, because they used a tile texture, and there'd be 1.5 engines on both sides, so they had to make them wider.
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Hmmh, why don't you make it something like this:
(http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/iceni_engine.JPG)
Sorry, it's drawn with paint and in quite a little time... Let me explain it a bit further:
It's basically a circular engine sunk into a diagonal hole on the surface: that way the thrust will actually point backwards and the ship moves forwards - PLUS it will be circular when viewed from behind.
That would be the way I'd do it... Actually, should there be any resemblance to real life physics, it'd be the ONLY way to fit a thruster onto a diagonal surface. But as we know, real life physics don't apply very well in FS universe.
I'll make a better drawing if you have trouble interpreting that daub of a picture I made...
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Hmmh, why don't you make it something like this:
(http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/iceni_engine.JPG)
Sorry, it's drawn with paint and in quite a little time... Let me explain it a bit further:
It's basically a circular engine sunk into a diagonal hole on the surface: that way the thrust will actually point backwards and the ship moves forwards - PLUS it will be circular when viewed from behind.
That would be the way I'd do it... Actually, should there be any resemblance to real life physics, it'd be the ONLY way to fit a thruster onto a diagonal surface. But as we know, real life physics don't apply very well in FS universe.
I'll make a better drawing if you have trouble interpreting that daub of a picture I made...
I understand, thanks. It's a good idea, but the problem is that it still looks circular from behind. If I do make it circular, this'll be the way (and I may actually try this for every thruster, so thanks for the idea).
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Why don't you make the engine like the first post ? I think it's better than the circular thing.
I mean this :
http://tinypic.com/4tvnya
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Why don't you make the engine like the first post ? I think it's better than the circular thing.
I mean this :
http://tinypic.com/4tvnya
The central two oval engines were too small because there wasn't enough place.
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OK, how about this:
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/N-x/Newengines.jpg)
They're not completely circular, but not very oval either
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YOU KILLED IT. YOU ****ING KILLED IT!!!!!!!
I really don't care to be honest, just make the thing look cool from the front and the sides, you can't see the engines anyway with the insane thruster glows these days.
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I say just leave e'm oval, the texture is oval, so it's not stretched.
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YOU KILLED IT. YOU ****ING KILLED IT!!!!!!!
I really don't care to be honest, just make the thing look cool from the front and the sides, you can't see the engines anyway with the insane thruster glows these days.
:wtf:
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Eloquent aren't I?
;)
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Eloquent aren't I?
;)
What did I kill?
-
It was a joke.
The sentence was my real reply.
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It was a joke.
The sentence was my real reply.
Oh, ok :D
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For future reference - five exclamation marks or more is a sign of a diseased mind. It's to be ignored :p
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What are seven a sign of?
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A prion based disease of the brain.
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Back on topic
First attempt at rear windowing and a platform for the beam cannon:
Have to add more windows to the center,
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/N-x/Back3.jpg)
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/N-x/Back4.jpg)
And some very WIP detail for the neck:
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/N-x/Neck.jpg)
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*drools*
vewy vewy nice mister knn. vewy vewy nice.
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Change the way those windows are mapped at some point; the three levels should not have distinctly different window patterns.
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Fixored
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/N-x/Newengines2.jpg)
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As a delayed response, I do like the idea of a kind of form-fitting engine exhaust up top - there's enough precedent for it. It's just the distorted circles I dislike. ;)
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I like the way the new engines look. Get rid of that awful texture stretching and they will be FTW. :yes:
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Heh, it works even better than I thought it would do... :D
Now it actually looks like the thrust could point directly backwards. Are you planning to do a similar thing to lower engines too?
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Yes, the blue exhausts will be similar on the lower ones too
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I think you have done an outstanding job so far. Have you thought about doing anything with the after dorsal twin turret? It always struck me as odd to have a turret directly behind an engine. One would think it would be fried by the engine wash. Perhaps it can be depressed a bit to be out of the direct exhaust?
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Wouldn't that affect its firing range slightly though?
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Just discovered:
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/N-x/Newengines.jpg)
If you look at this picture, you'll see that the turret is between the thrusters. In this picture, the blue cylinders are the same size as the holes , so the actual thrusters inside the holes are smaller. Sorry, but I can't post an updated render now.
So it's not such a big problem
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Looks fantastic. :yes:
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Splendid!
You still need to do something about that nameplate positioning though. Maybe you can move the nameplate to the front, facing forwards, just below the forwardmost dorsal turret, or to the sides of the back, under the rows of windows.
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I'd say, put the nameplate under the rows of Windows. Looks more natural that way...
Great work on the Iceni, by the way.... :yes:
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What's wrong with the current position?
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Nothing, absolutely nothing. I just imagined it would look slightly better to my eye. But then again my views sometimes do not coincide with the eye of the "public", or more experienced ones. :lol:
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Noone says it cannot have more than one pair of nameplates :drevil:
Don't want to overdo it tho
BTW, what should the polycount be? I was thinking about 10k, and it's 9k now (will be optimized tho)
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Is this a waste of polygons?
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/N-x/Front.jpg)
I won't make all the armor plates, just the bigger ones. The three intake like things to the sides of the big modeled plate, the mouth-like things below and the 3 plates with circles on the sides are candidates for extrudes
Turrets will get moved a bit too
Edit since this post got on a new page, I'll quote my previous post (it's kinda relevant too)
what should the polycount be? I was thinking about 10k, and it's 9k now (will be optimized tho)
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Bosch: "Okay who the shivan installed a eyebrow, and a nose on my ship!?" :lol:
I think just a few armor plate pieces are useless unless the whole plating is modelled, giving it a complete look..
[edit]post looked like it had correct spelling when posting, but suddenly after posting word armour missed the o.
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The only way that could be worthwhile is if it uses a different texture. It's too small, too shallow, and serves no real purpose from what I can see to spend the polygons on.
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Bosch: "Okay who the shivan installed a eyebrow, and a nose on my ship!?" :lol:
I think just a few armr plate pieces are useless unless the whole plating is modelled, giving it a complete look..
:lol:
Not really, the ones I'm thinking of doing look like they stick out better. They have a sharper edge around them
The only way that could be worthwhile is if it uses a different texture. It's too small, too shallow, and serves no real purpose from what I can see to spend the polygons on.
Probably
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/N-x/Front2.jpg)
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/N-x/Front3.jpg)
Added a light:
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/N-x/Frontwithlighting.jpg)
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Yeah, if I didn't know it was bumped out then I would never guess that it was.
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That's the kind of thing bumpmapping was invented for
Too bad FSO doesn't have it yet
-
Detail boxes?
-
Still doesn't justify it. Detail boxes are for detail that can be seen. This one can barely be seen with lighting or when the angle is right. Even with detail boxes, the amount of available polygons is not endless
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I say leave it as just texture, or make it more obvious.
-
There's a couple of wide, dark bands on the texture that look like they should be indented the whole way across, from one edge to the other. Those would show up...
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Can't someone make the head of the iceni a little more distinguishing?
All it's got is two beam cannons.
I really don't know what should go on the head of the iceni, or maybe what should go on top of the head.
I guess that's why the iceni is a challenge, i mean the collossus has windows on it's head, the orion doesn't really have windows on it's head, but it's got distinguishing lighting and textures in the least.
Yes it's a lot less plain and neat looking now with the htl version underway.
But, so far the only reason for the head on the iceni is just those two beams still.
Any type of glowpoints or something, idk about windows so much for the head unless you put some on the top or the bottom of it.
I mean design usually goes for how it's going to be used, not how it looks, the head looks cool, but people have been debating that's not where the bridge is because enemies beam the hell out of the head of the iceni.
It needs to have more of a purpose for the honking huge ass head than just two beams.
Especially if people are debating that the bridge isn't in the head, and the fact the head has no windows or anything particular.
Just make it more distinguishing or something, glowpoints, idk what to suggest, make the head look like it has a purpose because it's big, it's the head of the vessel, and it only has two beams, the head of the iceni looks very primary to how the ship would be piloted and especially where a bridge would be or something.
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The head of the Iceni looks like a battering ram, which further suggests that it was designed for running blockades. It actually would kill the design to have windows there, and AFAIK there has been a conscious decision not to put windows there.
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No i wasn't saying put windows there indefinitely, just do something, that gives the head a little more distinguishment.
As far as the battering ram hypothesis goes, i've never heard that one before.
Yeah that makes the iceni make more sense in it's design, and especially how it was used in the fs2 campaign.
In the fs2 campaign it's always on the move, the only blockade unfortuneately i get to see it run is when the iceni makes it's final run to gamma draconis.
The iceni probably could have survived without the collossus being sabotaged, i mean that wasn't too big of a window for the iceni not to get blasted till it warps out.
Anyway, i don't wish to get off topic.
The htl iceni is extremely lovely, and the head of it to, now that it's make sense purpose is brought to dawn upon me :lol:
I hope it gets finished, i really want to see it badly in game.
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Well, you could adda window strip above the two beam cannons, but if you do make it intruded...a lot.
that still keeps hte rugged feel of it and at the same time adds something that can serve as a bridge.
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If you do add a set of bridge windows remember that they look like this: / \ / \ / \
I always got the feeling Bosch was looking out the side, though.
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The windows probably were like that for some reason (I'm thinking that triangular structures are stronger than rectangular), thus the windows probably were similar all the way round Iceni. It wouldn't make any sense to mix different kind of windows in different parts of ship.
So, it doesn't really matter where Bosch was standing, looking out; the bridge windows vere similar on a very high probability.
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If you do add a set of bridge windows remember that they look like this: / \ / \ / \
I always got the feeling Bosch was looking out the side, though.
Yes, he probably was, the Iceni had no windows on the front. And
The head of the Iceni looks like a battering ram, which further suggests that it was designed for running blockades. It actually would kill the design to have windows there, and AFAIK there has been a conscious decision not to put windows there.
Yes, I decided not to put windows there 5 pages ago :)
IMO the bridge is located at the top of the neck, where it connects to the middle section.
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Is it possible to make certain parts of the ship more heavily shielded/armored than others, just thought if the Iceni was designed as the sort of "Blockade Runner" then the front certainly should have more armor than the rest. I mean, that by shooting the front part damages the ship much more slowly, than shooting the rear.
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As far as the battering ram hypothesis goes, i've never heard that one before.
You, sir, need to read the stickied story in the Arts forum. The Iceni's head is actually a battering ram in disguise, so that the captain can stand and say, all engines, Double burn - bring us up to ramming speed! and make it look extremely cool too :p
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long time to be posting on this thread
but i wonder how much damage 10 iceni's could do battering the colosus
that'd certainly be an interesting way to make the gtva crap its pants :lol:
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...or not.
-
long time to be posting on this thread
but i wonder how much damage 10 iceni's could do battering the colosus
that'd certainly be an interesting way to make the gtva crap its pants :lol:
:wtf:
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long time to be posting on this thread
but i wonder how much damage 10 iceni's could do battering the colosus
that'd certainly be an interesting way to make the gtva crap its pants :lol:
For future reference, it's generally not that good of an idea to bump a thread over a week old when all you have to say is only marginally related to the original topic, and that by virtue of merely mentioning the same ship. ;)
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Not to mention the big C would likely roast 10 icenis if they planned on ramming..
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How'bout the carnivorous C? How would it do against ten ramming Iceniae?
(...I'm not sure, but that plural form just sounds better than just adding "s"to end)
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Toss a bridge of some sort on the top of the Iceni's "head." (something small like the one on the front of the Fenris)
Then add some armor plating to the lower part of the bottom.
That way it's got more visual stuff, and looks functional.
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I always pictured the Iceni bridge being on the top front of the central body above the "neck" and that the "head" was just for weapons and sensor arrays and such.
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How about a single window with Bosch and a laptop? :p
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i don't know this thread is already pretty old :p
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What, one month? :p
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For some reason i thought it was older:p
I know the status update on the iceni hasn't happened for a bit.
Anyway i'm out of here
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any more progress? need to get this goddamn thing done so we can oggle it in-game. :p
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What, one month? :p
10 months
any more progress? need to get this goddamn thing done so we can oggle it in-game. :p
Trying to texture it
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/N-x/Iceni.jpg)
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/N-x/Iceni2.jpg)
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*oggles for an eternity* damn, not bad. :yes:
is this a first try for texturing?
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I've mapped other models before
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Looks super-amazing, and is definitely a massive improvementt over the "old box".
One thing about the nameplate, is it "extra" ? Can it be removed/renamed to Iceni, or is it going to stay as "Bellerophon" ?
Little mindless nittpicking here, but it's truly an awesome job....
So, ETA for release ? Do we have to wait for new Media VP, or is it "stand alone" release ?
Lot's of questions, but for the model of that calibre, it's just normal
Keep up the good work...
:yes:
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i'm pretty sure that when the next mediavp's come out it will have texture replacement done on it in the main fs2 campaign. for now, it's standalone, but it'll be put in the media vp's for the next release. ;)
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One thing about the nameplate, is it "extra" ? Can it be removed/renamed to Iceni, or is it going to stay as "Bellerophon" ?
I use the name Bellerophon because it's long, and because
What if you wanted to make, say, the GTF Bellerophon?
You'd either have to break the long word up or write Bellerophon really tiny. Too much fiddling around IMO for too little gain.
It's only for testing purposes, the default will either be blank or NTF Iceni
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(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/N-x/Iceni3.jpg)
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/N-x/Iceni4.jpg)
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Looking good :) I assume the blue and red are placeholders?
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no offence but some of the detail just looks kinda generic (just my opinion)
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it's generic because it uses the original maps. ;)
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The model is good (:v: is to blame for the ugly design IMO), but the stock maps are sucking up a lot of the modelled detail. I'd say, take more artistic license with the mapping.
For starters, increase the tile factor on the big grey hull plating map on the side. It makes the ship look way smaller than it is. Or use another map instead.
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I disagree. Don't increase tiling factors if you can help it. It's very easy to overtile something without realizing what you're doing.
Other than the aforementioned sucking up of detail, it looks good. You might borrow a page from the Fenris book and use a special trim map around the sides of extruded/inset parts.
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i like the way the grey is used on the sides, it makes it look like an actual texture more than a tile, which is always a good thing
here, when theres shines on it, i believe that this tex will enhance the model the way its used
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I disagree. Don't increase tiling factors if you can help it. It's very easy to overtile something without realizing what you're doing.
Other than the aforementioned sucking up of detail, it looks good. You might borrow a page from the Fenris book and use a special trim map around the sides of extruded/inset parts.
Good idea, thanks. Actually, I think my first try will be cut'npasting a certain section of the yellow Colossus texture, and inserting the black superstructure texture in it.
i like the way the grey is used on the sides, it makes it look like an actual texture more than a tile, which is always a good thing
That was actually :v:, not me, the mapping on the original is almost the same.
Anyway, I've changed the neck, it looks much better now IMHO, fits in with the texture, and has a conveniently placed extruded box for the neck turrets. Speaking of which, I checked the tables to see what kind of turrets go there (I wanted to make blob turrets that don't look like octagonal beam turrets), and I noticed that on the left side, the weapon is a Terran Huge Turret, but on the right side it's a standard Terran Turret. :wtf:
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/N-x/NewNeck.jpg)
Looking good :) I assume the blue and red are placeholders?
Thanks. The blue engine exhausts are probably final, the red ones are turrets from the original, they make it easier for me to imagine how the final model would look and make it harder for me to forget that I have to place turrets there :)
no offence but some of the detail just looks kinda generic (just my opinion)
None taken. Do you mean the textures or the geometry?
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I like it with a passion.
And as for the weapons, well, the weapons layout on the Iceni has always been a mess. It doesn't help that the turrets seem to be numbered entirely at random, either.
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OHMIGAWD!
I have two words. Finish it. ;)
i am loving the way this thing looks. :D
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Having used differentiated turrets for beams and blobs in the past, I actually have to recommend a generic approach. The Iceni especially is a strange animal (it's weapons are bizarrely imbalanced from one side to the other, for one thing, and its configuration is never really firmly established) so it's hard to know exactly how it is used. Remember that for mission purposes, especially with that ship, that it's likely modified in the mission files rather than the tables because its true power is never really adequately shown.
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I'm guessing Violition set one of the side beam turrets to a blob turret for the mission where you are supposed to protect the icini and the vasudans jump in. The icini beams would have shredded the vasudans really quickly were they left there. I don't know why they just didn't beam lock the iceni though. Of course I don't know why they made all those waypoints for a disabled colossus in "their finest hour" either. I'd say just design both points like a heavy beam and let it be set to a huge turret in the tables.
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The thing is, the weapons really should have been altered in the mission file, not the ships table. I've never been able to come up with a good reason for its imbalance.
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I agree. Blame ETAK?
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The thing is, the weapons really should have been altered in the mission file, not the ships table. I've never been able to come up with a good reason for its imbalance.
my guess is that :v: got lazy. :nervous:
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That's the thing. The lazy way - and the correct way - would have been to change out the loadout in that one mission, as it can be done via FRED, where you can see the turret and are sure to get a valid weapon. Swapping in ships just seems like a bad copy-paste error.
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Sorry for the long absence, but I was fed up with Windows and decided to get rid of it. Don't worry, I backed up all my files. I now have Ubuntu Linux 5.10 installed. After Red Hat 7 and Suse 9, this is my first Linux that actually works, and I'm quite satisfied, so I don't feel like reinstalling that bloatware Windows XP, then reinstalling every program I need, updating, configuring, etc.
That's all fine but Max7 will not run under Wine. Blender could be an alternative, but I don't like the way mouse selection works in Blender and I haven't found a program that can load max files yet. There are also some features in Max I absolutely need, like STL check, and I'm unsure if Blender has them. Hopefully, I can get Max7 to work with some Windows emulation software with minimal slowdown, otherwise I'll have to install WinXP :ick:
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Try checking out qemu.
It does emulation.
And it's not wine.
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VMware is also a possibility. I use it for Windows programming, testing, and quite a few other things for that matter. If you don't want to fork over the money for the full version then find someone to make you a disk image of XP and then you can just use the free Player version which allows you to use virtual machines, but not create them.
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I tried VMWare, but it's too slow. I'm going to install Max on my Win98 installation (yes, I know, it crashes all the time, but at least it's faster), if I can install ie6 (Why does max need ie6 anyway?). I can't find a full download of ie6 (edit: found it) only the stupid 460 kb online setup version, but I can't install my ethernet card on W98 because it spits out a very informative error 136.:mad: Only ten minutes have passed since I booted W98 and I'm starting to lose my temper already.
Edit2: Okay, now that I've got everything working, max tells me it will only install on W2k SP3 and WXP :hopping:
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The moral of the story is, don't move to linux before you've finished work on a project requiring Windows applications.
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Problem is, I'll need max even after I finish the Iceni
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I thought there was a version of MAX for linux???
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I've found that Linux emulation for Windows proggies isn't dependable at all. Don't plan on being able to run _anything_ Win32. Just hope (pray?) you'll get lucky, and install Win32 on another partition.
You can stick programs on a FAT32 partition so that both OSes can get at them though. ;)
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I thought there was a version of MAX for linux???
No, unfortunately. There is a version of Maya for Linux, but now that Autodesk bought Maya, I'm not sure there will be one in the future.
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Hey great work on the model I really like it! So when is it going to be released it could have a place in a campaign that I'm coming up with (with your permission of course :ick:)?
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This is shaping up to be a really good model, from the shots I think I might come to like it more than the HTL Deimos (I like the basic design better, it's nothing wrong with the way the Deimos was HTLed).
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NOOOO!!!!!!
:(
-
Like I said, the Deimos was HTLed masterfully, I just think the Iceni looked better from the getgo, just like the way I think the Aeolus is an excellent HTLed ship, but I still like the Fenathan cruisers better - just because of their most basic design.
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*psst*
He was replying to knn's post :p
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Oh... Aren't I special. Isn't Bobboau the one who made the HTL Deimos?
Hem... Well anyway, hows the model going knn? It's looking really good.
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well actualy I was responding, jokeingly, to Mars.
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Every time i see a post in this thread I keep hoping this model is done... :sigh:
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Hem... Well anyway, hows the model going knn?
I'm mapping it
(http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/3949/icenibacktexture29mh.th.jpg) (http://img196.imageshack.us/my.php?image=icenibacktexture29mh.jpg)
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Wow, that looks amazing so far.... can't wait !!!
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Happy Birthday HTL Iceni ! You're offically 1 year old !!! :ha:
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and you say I troll...
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I think the Iceni is pretty close to being finished by now, and if the screen shots are any indication, the wait'll be worth it.
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OMG a year :eek:
(http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/2027/iceni5wz.th.jpg) (http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=iceni5wz.jpg)
(http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/4931/iceni26sv.th.jpg) (http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=iceni26sv.jpg)
(http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/9681/iceni30bf.th.jpg) (http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=iceni30bf.jpg)
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Lol, all we need now is a high poly asteroid installation.
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now that actually looks like a good, decent-sized warship!
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Since the turrets bear strong resemblence to the Orion turrets, I think a recolored version might be in order for those. Otherwise, looking great.
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I always thought those triple turrets were really good at establishing the Iceni's position as a destroyer armed vessel. Why did they bother giving it BGreens, BTW. It never really uses them, except for Rebels and Renegades, where it smokes a Sobek.
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Why did they bother giving it BGreens, BTW. It never really uses them, except for Rebels and Renegades, where it smokes a Sobek.
Your answer:
for Rebels and Renegades, where it smokes a Sobek.
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Isn't that overkill? Oh well. :doubt:
Can't wait for the HTL Iceni.
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Wow, come to think of it, since it looks so much more impressive now, This is something that should have been done a long, long time ago.
Finish It ! Finish It ! (to the "USA, USA" chant) :lol:
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Since the turrets bear strong resemblence to the Orion turrets, I think a recolored version might be in order for those. Otherwise, looking great.
The Orion turrets are too wide for the Iceni, but I made some new arms based on the Orion's turret arms:
(http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/1472/icenibigturrets36fv.th.jpg) (http://img77.imageshack.us/my.php?image=icenibigturrets36fv.jpg)
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Any ETA on this model's completion date ? 2 weeks ? Next month ? That would be cool...
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When it's done.
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Reminds me of TVWP before it went into hibernation.
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When it's done.
= never
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When it's done.
= never
= bulls**t.
You've obviously never heard of Ambrosia Software. They finish things that don't have a release date all the time. Whenever they get asked when something will be released, the answer is always, "When it's done." And they make some damn good games, too.
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don' give up on this yet, look how far done it is! :D
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When it's done.
= never
= bulls**t.
You've obviously never heard of Ambrosia Software. They finish things that don't have a release date all the time. Whenever they get asked when something will be released, the answer is always, "When it's done." And they make some damn good games, too.
Maybe I haven't, but that has precious little to do with voluntary FS2 mods.
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knn hasn't posted since May 10th, so he's probably busy with real-lifetm
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Texturing is done, nothing new except the turrets:
(http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/4498/icenifinished9bd.th.jpg) (http://img326.imageshack.us/my.php?image=icenifinished9bd.jpg)
(http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/2663/icenifinished29yr.th.jpg) (http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=icenifinished29yr.jpg)
(http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/2773/icenifinished36we.th.jpg) (http://img326.imageshack.us/my.php?image=icenifinished36we.jpg)
(http://img290.imageshack.us/img290/4343/icenifinished44is.th.jpg) (http://img290.imageshack.us/my.php?image=icenifinished44is.jpg)
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not bad. :yes:
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Sweet, that thing is awesome.
I was waiting for that thing to be textured because when the turrets weren't textured it just didn't look right. I want to be able to fight against...rather assist in gtva undercover operations.
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When are you going to release this opitimy of sexiness
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Yeah it's not about the size. It's all about how you use it :lol: You know it's just like a destroyer, only smaller :lol:
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That's why it's called a "pocket destroyer" :p
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Is that perverted and wrong? I meant sexy in the cleanest possible way.
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Hmm :blah:
POCKET DESTROYER TO BREAKING NODAL DEFENSE :lol:
I will quit there :)
Fs2 ships aren't phallic, however what they do is next to it :lol:
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*sigh*
So when is the HTL Iceni going to be released?
*glares at S-99 and Cobra*
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Judging by the speed of progress thus far, i'd assume it'll be released a day or two after MT :nervous:
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So never, then, eh?
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The pof exporter is really pissing me off, after crashing max a few hundred times, now it exports the barrels incorrectly (see pic).
It also creates two log files, locks them (so I can't delete them) and appends a few megabytes (23 in my case) to them after each export. A few exports later they are 120 MB large, and for some reason they seem to be kept in memory, so my computer runs out of physical memory and I have to restart Max
(http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/2109/pofexp6dl.th.jpg) (http://img160.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pofexp6dl.jpg)
I followed the instructions in the readme. The turret bases are named gunturret-x and linked to the hull, named detail-0. The three barrels are one object and they're linked to the bases. The barrels of the smaller turrets are missing because I didn't link them to the bases.
The position of the barrels depends on the main object's pivot point. In this picture, I moved the pivot point to the center of the object before exporting. Before that it was in the front, and the barrels were behind their current position.
Edit: with the original pivot point, marked by the blue cross:
(http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/5242/pofexp20rf.th.jpg) (http://img107.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pofexp20rf.jpg)
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Tech/Pof/Max expert STAT! :eek2:
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nice rhodium edge visual style from 2001 :p
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Using the latest exporter plugin? Ive not had that problem since the first plugin.
Have you tried resetting xform? Or alter the hierarchy so that the barrels are no longer children of the turret but of the ship.
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Yes, it's the latest
Have you tried resetting xform?
What do you mean? I don't use the xform modifier, and the reset scale and reset transform buttons do nothing
Great, it crashed again. Seems to crash only when using export selected
The barrels have to be children of the turret, otherwise it won't work.
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Found the solution, the pivot point of detail-0 has to be in (0,0,0)
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Yes, it's the latest
Have you tried resetting xform?
What do you mean? I don't use the xform modifier, and the reset scale and reset transform buttons do nothing
Great, it crashed again. Seems to crash only when using export selected
The barrels have to be children of the turret, otherwise it won't work.
Reset xform effects the model, regardless of wether you used xform or not.
also; I have converted many a mesh without the barrels as a child of the turret.
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Yes, it's the latest
Have you tried resetting xform?
What do you mean? I don't use the xform modifier, and the reset scale and reset transform buttons do nothing
Great, it crashed again. Seems to crash only when using export selected
The barrels have to be children of the turret, otherwise it won't work.
Reset xform effects the model, regardless of wether you used xform or not.
also; I have converted many a mesh without the barrels as a child of the turret.
I wanted to try that, but max decided to crash instead (and I didn't use Export selected). The reset xform utility only alters the scale and rotation, even tough I didn't rotate the barrels IIRC (I did scale them), but doesn't move them.
Making barrels the children of the ship will put them in the correct position, but they won't be the barrel subobjects of the turret. You can fix that in PCS, so it will work.
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LOL
I laugh out of sympathy, this is simply the most dumbass problem to have at the last minute and unexpectedly. Especially the thing with your log files.
But certainly this thing is seeing progress, if anyone else see's, there's more than enough proof the iceni has only a couple of touches left to finishing. And then once in fs2 the iceni gets nodal.
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Making barrels the children of the ship will put them in the correct position, but they won't be the barrel subobjects of the turret. You can fix that in PCS, so it will work.
Well, yes. But since you cannot export a fully functioning mesh from 3d max to pof format without needing to do some editting work to it anyway, I see no reason to ignore that possibility. Perhaps Im too old fashoned at this point, but I dont trust autogen features to do a job accurately enough for me.
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Click me! (http://files.filefront.com/corvette2r_01pof/;5076769;;/fileinfo.html)
Has not been tested, as my machine is dying and needs a restart. I just imported all data from the original pof file. It should work.
Docking point and thrusters have to be fixed
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Half of the model isn't shiny... I mean, it won't have a specular reflection
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wow, all these new models coming out right after media vps zeta. lol.
Good job finishing it, (even if it has some extra fixes it needs) its' a damn good model
AWESOME KNN !!!!! :nod:
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Brilliant work, there Knn. :D Now does anyone fancy doing a retexture job for that ship from Derelict while the shinyness is being fixed? Should be simple enough, I think just replacing the Colosus-coloured tile with a Diemos one would probably do that job. If not I may just play that campaign again with this model anyway and Fred in a texture shop myself, in fact if I wasn't revising I'd do that now.
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It's not finished yet, turret debris is missing, lods are missing and debris is missing
And of course the Boadicea (the asteroid installation)
Fixed some subsystem positions and thrusters. Didn't fix dockpoint yet as Modelview can't do that
http://files.filefront.com/corvette2r_01rar/;5078276;;/fileinfo.html (http://files.filefront.com/corvette2r_01rar/;5078276;;/fileinfo.html)
Which texture is missing specular?
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To be honest I'm not sure now. In the ship viewer-thingy (the f3 thing) the grey texture looks messed on one side but looking at it in mission 3 it seems to be ok, however that mission doesn't have that good lighting for looking at this kind of thing, I'll Fred up a quick lighting test and have a looksee.
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Very oddly the ship is reacting as if it's being lit from the front despite the fact that the star is as a 90 degree angle to it. Someone else should better have a look tho 'cos I've just had a reinstall and I'm still working out some bugs in it so that could just be me. The Turrets appear to be fine tho. It's just the main hull.
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The last time I used FSO I had worse problems (missing subobjects, no textures, and a strange bug with shinemaps when everything not shiny became invisible) with htl models (except the shinemap thing, which was universal), but it was a cvs build. You could try an older stable build. Anyway, thanks for your help and as a bonus:
(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/3518/saphah2rs.th.jpg) (http://img19.imageshack.us/my.php?image=saphah2rs.jpg)
(http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/2603/saphah27aa.th.jpg) (http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=saphah27aa.jpg)
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Maby you should try getting Truespace and then port the max model there using Litium Unwarpper...
It preserves the UV mapping and it allways worked for me...
anyway, if you can't get it to work properly, I might be willing ot give it a try :D
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That's the method I used before. I hated it.
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lol, you can enter "inside" the ship in any place, just do a run thight it :P
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great, I think I'll be installing TS and Lithunwrap :doubt:
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i hope you can fix the bugs, but you still did a great job anyway, knn. Keep it up !
Much better than the original Iceni
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Catch-up post! The flythrough problem is because of the x-form needing to be reset. The max plugin still doesn't produce 100% stable meshes all the time, but they are usually solid in at least most places. The downside is that you'll need to unglue everything. The turrets being in the "wrong" place is because detail-0 needs to be at 0,0,0 though it would still render correctly in game; having it out of place has consequences on other things.
also; I have converted many a mesh without the barrels as a child of the turret.
It works fine unless you want to animate the turret in any way. You need to make it a child if you can possibly help it, though the turret code itself seems to compensate if it's not.
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Resetting the xform completely brakes turret positions, orientations and the scale of the big barrels. I'd rather use truespace than fix that. However it doesn't do anything to detail0. I fixed some turret locations, so I'm uploading a new version.
http://files.filefront.com/corvette2r_01fixedrar/;5141962;;/fileinfo.html (http://files.filefront.com/corvette2r_01fixedrar/;5141962;;/fileinfo.html)
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Unglue everything, reset x-form on all the pieces, and glue it back up. It's a pain, but it's necessary. You learn to do that first eventually.
EDIT: Link, not glue. That's Truespace terminology. Sorry.
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When it's done.
= never
= bulls**t.
You've obviously never heard of Ambrosia Software. They finish things that don't have a release date all the time. Whenever they get asked when something will be released, the answer is always, "When it's done." And they make some damn good games, too.
Example: the Escape Velocity series
;D
BTW, I love that Iceni.
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Is the Iceni's unshiny side going to be fixed at some point ?
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probably not.
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so whatever happened with this ?
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I ate it.
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Seriously, I beg SOMEONE, please finish this off!!!! :(
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Heading for two years now... :D
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hey, where is this thing?
we need it in order to make the high-poly installation from mission 2, basically that's the only thing left (apart from the colossus and arcadia) that looks kinda crappy
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I ate it.
PREP THE EMERGENCY ROOM!
We're gonna need to open this sucker up....
Nurse, it's time to put him to sleep....Hand me that hammer!
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I ate it.
PREP THE EMERGENCY ROOM!
We're gonna need to open this sucker up....
Nurse, it's time to put him to sleep....Hand me that hammer!
Just wait for him to crap it out.
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That's like a dog eating a t-bone without chewing.
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That's like a dog eating a t-bone without chewing.
what does the colossus have to do with this?
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It has everything to do with the last few posts behind mine, along with just a little bit of thinking of that poor dog i mentioned.
I ate it.
PREP THE EMERGENCY ROOM!
We're gonna need to open this sucker up....
Nurse, it's time to put him to sleep....Hand me that hammer!
Just wait for him to crap it out.
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No waiting...who's gonna clean it up afterwars????
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We have sla... volunteers for that.
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GET IT DONE!!!!! :mad:
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GET IT DONE!!!!! :mad:
Be patient...
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hey, where is this thing?
we need it in order to make the high-poly installation from mission 2, basically that's the only thing left (apart from the colossus and arcadia) that looks kinda crappy
face it, by the time everything gets HTL'd (if ever), there'll be some new graphical technology out that HTL will pale in comparison to.
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face it, by the time everything gets HTL'd (if ever), there'll be some new graphical technology out that HTL will pale in comparison to.
Well, we call them HTL models because they take much longer to render without HTL. It's not impossible to render them without HTL, and by no means is it restricted to the graphics cards of the present. As long as future graphics cards are capable of performing lighting-and-transformation calculations on their own, we can still call them HTL.
Oh, and with future advancements in processor technology, you may not even need an HTL-capable card.
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Jeez, you guys missed the memo. They're not "HTL" models, they're just "Hi-poly" models. :p
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Jeez, you guys missed the memo. They're not "HTL" models, they're just "Hi-poly" models. :p
Well, we've been calling them "HTL" models for a while now. I guess I did miss the memo.
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I did send an e-mail to the address listed in knn's profile, but no response. Is it possible to fix the model in its present state without its source files? I beleive the present issues are screwy lighting and a bounding box problem.
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my bad
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Click me (http://files.filefront.com/corvette2r+01zip/;9339909;/fileinfo.html)
Pictures (http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/Nx.devnull/Iceni/)
Collision detection errors are fixed. Thrusters and dockpoint are correctly placed in the pof. Nameplate included.
No LODs and debris yet, and some weapon firing points need tweaking (multiparts mostly). Some unnecessary polygons have to be removed. I'm also not entirely satisfied with it, so I don't want to call it finished yet.
Why did I disappear for 1.5 years? Well, after spending *days* trying to get this thing into the game and fix the issues, I gave up, and lost interest.
I'm working on it again now that I have a computer that can handle 3dsmax, truespace, deep exploration, both versions of pcs, modelview, vista and the memory leaks of all those.
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Woot, he is back!
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I am delighted to see you back again! :)
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Wow, that's quite something. Great to see this back on track!
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for me looks very nice so far in the tech room....hope you get rid of these remaining coding errors you mentioned soon, so i can test it during play ;)
but thanks 4 your effort so far.....
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Public notice:
I wanted to register with this user name back when HLP was only 2.0, but the forum software required at least 3 characters. When HLP3 came out I tried again, and, to my surprise, the new forum didn't have this limitation. So I'll be using this profile from now on
Thank you for your attention.
for me looks very nice so far in the tech room....hope you get rid of these remaining coding errors you mentioned soon, so i can test it during play ;)
but thanks 4 your effort so far.....
The model I posted should be STL correct (unless some part of the conversion process screwed things up), and I couldn't get inside the ship ingame with my fighter, so i hope the collision detection errors are truly gone. Unfortunately, since I booleaned (is that a word?) together the different pieces of the main hull, I now have to remove a few hundred polygons, and probably remap the whole thing. Should be fun...
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Hurry up, dammit, I wanna see a GOOD-looking Iceni. :P
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Hurry up, dammit, I wanna see a GOOD-looking Iceni. :P
:wtf:
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Hurry up, dammit, I wanna see a GOOD-looking Iceni. :P
While you're waiting patiently :p , why don't you test the model I uploaded for collision detection errors? Just point your fighter toward the ship and hit tab ;)
Here I'll post a mission. You should be invulnerable :) Try to kill her without your weapons :D
[attachment deleted by ninja]
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looks nice ingame but i have some points:
- i´m always able to look inside, when my ship has an exact 90° angle to the wall i´m hitting. then i can shoot through the whole ship....
- some flak and laser-turrets look like beam-canons
but thats it ;) runs smoothly on my machine.....no drop in framerate......
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looks nice ingame but i have some points:
- i´m always able to look inside, when my ship has an exact 90° angle to the wall i´m hitting. then i can shoot through the whole ship....
As long as you can't actually enter, it's not a problem (at least I can't fix it)
- some flak and laser-turrets look like beam-canons
but thats it ;) runs smoothly on my machine.....no drop in framerate......
Thank :V: for the crappy turret setup. I originally wanted to make turrets different based on their type, but that's not such a great idea...
Having used differentiated turrets for beams and blobs in the past, I actually have to recommend a generic approach. The Iceni especially is a strange animal (it's weapons are bizarrely imbalanced from one side to the other, for one thing, and its configuration is never really firmly established) so it's hard to know exactly how it is used. Remember that for mission purposes, especially with that ship, that it's likely modified in the mission files rather than the tables because its true power is never really adequately shown.
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Do you still have the version with the GTFf Cypher texturing?
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Do you still have the version with the GTFf Cypher texturing?
The Saphah class (http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/Nx.devnull/Iceni/photo#5150167196543833266) is currently a modified Iceni mesh without the Colossus textures. The untextured gray polygons should get a different texture.
For reference: the original Saphah (http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/Nx.devnull/Iceni/photo#5150168854401209538)
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Will you release it someday?
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I did the Saphah once, but I deleted it.
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Will you release it someday?
Iceni and Boadicea have greater priority. I have exams in January, so don't expect updates :(
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No problem I can wait.
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She looks absolutely outstanding with the new normal maps from DaBrain. I'll be delighted when we see the last of the Boadicea, too! :)
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She looks absolutely outstanding with the new normal maps from DaBrain. I'll be delighted when we see the last of the Boadicea, too! :)
Normal maps? What else happened while I was away :D
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Ha ha, a lot. :)
DaBrain's Media VP betas have normal maps for the Iceni. Check it out.
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I see the radius issue that the old model had is gone. The Iceni used to get "stuck" passing under the Colossus in this mission. You can also see the new maps and other effects at work:
(http://lvlshot.photobucket.com/albums/v106/NelsonAndBronte/FS2/Iceni1.jpg)
(http://lvlshot.photobucket.com/albums/v106/NelsonAndBronte/FS2/Iceni2.jpg)
(http://lvlshot.photobucket.com/albums/v106/NelsonAndBronte/FS2/Iceni3.jpg)
(http://lvlshot.photobucket.com/albums/v106/NelsonAndBronte/FS2/Iceni4.jpg)
(http://lvlshot.photobucket.com/albums/v106/NelsonAndBronte/FS2/Iceni5.jpg)
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If you're having collision detection issues with PCS2 (shots go trough faces, bounding boxes to small or too big), there is a way around it...
Convert with PCS1, preferably a version that doesn't chrash when trying to import glows. :ick:
looking mighty purdy b.t.w.
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If you're having collision detection issues with PCS2 (shots go trough faces, bounding boxes to small or too big), there is a way around it...
Convert with PCS1, preferably a version that doesn't chrash when trying to import glows. :ick:
looking mighty purdy b.t.w.
I have to convert using PCS2, PCS1 crashes - the funny thing is, the collision detection errors are gone. First I thought it was because I boolean united all the hull objects together before exporting (that's the file I uploaded), but I tried without doing that (too lazy to fix all the problems the boolean operation introduces for a simple test), and I couldn't find collision detection problems (yet).
Now, the reason I have to use PCS1 too is that PCS2 global import is borked. For some reason firing points (at least, haven't checked anything else) end up incorrect. PCS1, on the other hand, perfectly imports everything, and then it's also fine when opened in PCS2.
Edit: maybe it was just the pof exporter plugin causing bad geometry
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Please read this post: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,51229.msg1048614.html#msg1048614 (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,51229.msg1048614.html#msg1048614)
I appreciate any help, but please let's not make other peoples' lives harder by making them try to reproduce a bug only to find that it's not their fault at all. The HTL Iceni pof has incorrect turret positions, because they are all taken from the vanilla Iceni. That will be fixed, but I didn't want to fiddle with it, since I was only testing collision detection.
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so is it a bug or not?
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so is it a bug or not?
It seems I fixed the turret locations, since the particle effect is positioned correctly, although the effect is a little bit small. It's much bigger on the HTL Deimos, but it's the same size as on the lowpoly Iceni. The glow is missing from every ship.
With mediavps 3.6.9, the particle effect size is just right, and the glow fits almost perfectly.
This is AAAf, btw.
Some screenshots (the last 5 in the album) http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/Nx.devnull/Iceni (http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/Nx.devnull/Iceni)
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Am I right to believe that the HTL Iceni is alive and well?
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When you make the final POF, could you move the dockpoint so that it is actually on the docking port? Or has that been fixed already?
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When you make the final POF, could you move the dockpoint so that it is actually on the docking port? Or has that been fixed already?
On one side only. On the starboard side, there's no dockpoint model, since on the lowpoly model, the dockpoint was inside the ship. I figured since it isn't used ingame anyway, I won't include a dockpoint model and won't fix it. On the port side, I aligned the dockpoint almost perfectly, but now it needs a little tweaking because of some changes: http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/Nx.devnull/Iceni/photo#5163776477541862242 (http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/Nx.devnull/Iceni/photo#5163776477541862242)
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Okay, it looks fixed in that pic.
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Okay, it looks fixed in that pic.
Zoom in :)
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does this mean we can start on that ugly as sin asteroid from mission 2?
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I would love to see that hidden rock shield with all the fancy stuff...
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Okay, it looks fixed in that pic.
Zoom in :)
Well, at least its better.
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does this mean we can start on that ugly as sin asteroid from mission 2?
I've modified one of the mediavp asteroids, but I'll have to tweak it a little bit more to be closer to the original's proportions. You'll find two pictures of it in my Picasa album (http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/Nx.devnull/Iceni/photo#5163847572135512978)
Anyway, debris (http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/Nx.devnull/Iceni/photo#5165492392676645426) and more debris (http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/Nx.devnull/Iceni/photo#5165495180110420562).
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:eek2: Nice!
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Excellent! :nod:
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hm, from what's labelled bottom and top, i think i've been upside-down every time i've played that mission!
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hm, from what's labelled bottom and top, i think i've been upside-down every time i've played that mission!
Meh, what difference does it make? I've designed ships where you can't tell the top from the bottom.
Can't wait to see that installation in-game. From those pictures it looks like it will look more like an asteroid and less like a giant space turd.
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I wanted to test the debris ingame, so I set up a mission with a Deimos and a Sobek attacking the Iceni.
Seeing that he had no chance against such odds, the captain of the Iceni activated the experimental phase-cloaking device. Unfortunately, it malfunctioned, and phase shifted only parts of the ship. It could still be seen, but the GTVA ships' beam cannons would go right through it, causing only minimal damage to the unshifted portions. Since their weapons had no effect, the captain of the Deimos class corvette decided to ram the Iceni:
(http://lh4.google.com/Nx.devnull/R8FfQZN5WmI/AAAAAAAAAJU/5DqRScZDt1o/s144/screen0053.jpg) (http://picasaweb.google.com/Nx.devnull/Iceni/photo#5170518582449756770)
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Now thats a sticky situation :D
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Great, it seems the PCS2 devs found the ASE format to be unreliable, and I've been using it to get the model from max into truespace. F***
Off to find a different format that will work...
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(http://lh5.google.com/Nx.devnull/R6mY4fNmi4I/AAAAAAAAAG0/NHDXYx5J480/s400/iceni.jpg) (http://picasaweb.google.com/Nx.devnull/Iceni/photo#5163826543975631746)
:jaw:
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Sorry, too lazy to look through 20 pages to see if this has already been posted...
I doubt it's a software program. It was stated ingame that an etak device was being built on the iceni.
Do you know what the process of writing and compiling a computer program is often called? "Building". I personally still think ETAK is a physical device.
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I would agree that modulating quantum pulses would take some sort of hardware, but did you really have to bump this thread just to say that?
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I don't think a normal ship's comm can modulate quantum pulses. Whatever those things may be.
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Something on topic:
Really...this HTL Iceni's been going for a bit. is it alive and well? or Dead?
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but did you really have to bump this thread just to say that?
10 days isn't much of a bump. :P
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No, but the bump before that was.
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I don't think a normal ship's comm can modulate quantum pulses. Whatever those things may be.
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Something on topic:
Really...this HTL Iceni's been going for a bit. is it alive and well? or Dead?
Electromagnetic radiation (light) is sent in quanta that we call photons. These could be what the quantum pulses are, or it could be another form of radiation in quanta. One big explanation of why light sometimes acts like a wave and sometimes like a particle is given by string theory. Instead of 0-dimensional points, string theory says particles are 1-dimensional strings, which, since they can't sit still, oscillate. So, light, as a bosonic string, would be a 1-dimensional "particle" that is constantly oscillating, with the different frequencies at which is oscillates being different parts of the electromagnetic spectrum. So, light is both a quantum and a wave. I did a research paper on this for English. :D
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Really...this HTL Iceni's been going for a bit. is it alive and well? or Dead?
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Really...this HTL Iceni's been going for a bit. is it alive and well? or Dead?
Waiting for collada import in PCS2. I don't know how I screwed up, but not even .3ds works anymore, the turrets are inverted.
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:snipe: This is why you should always backup your work
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:snipe: This is why you should always backup your work
That's not the problem. I save to a new file quite frequently. I have about 70 files for the Iceni alone. But I wouldn't want to remake the whole thing.
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If you save to a new file frequently theres little work that should have to be done.. :wtf:
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:snipe: This is why you should always backup your work
That's not the problem. I save to a new file quite frequently. I have about 70 files for the Iceni alone. But I wouldn't want to remake the whole thing.
I'll have to remember that... Save each time to a different file, so if you decide you don't like what happened 5 saves ago, you can go back and redo it.
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It's a very good idea.
But yes, what Hellstryker said - if you saved to a new file frequently, theres should be little work needed to be done...
unless...somehow they ALL got corrupted...then that's just " :wtf: :eek2: "
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It's a very good idea.
But yes, what Hellstryker said - if you saved to a new file frequently, theres should be little work needed to be done...
unless...somehow they ALL got corrupted...then that's just " :wtf: :eek2: "
Yes, but what if the corruption happened 15 saves ago? I don't even know where the problem is, since the model is perfect in max, the problems appear only when exporting to different formats and then importing into other stuff.
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Oh...that sucks.
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Corrupted in what way? My offer to fix & finish it is still open btw. :)
I can't guarantee it'd be ready for the next MVPs as they're really nearing completion now, but I could give it a go if you like.
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Corrupted in what way? My offer to fix & finish it is still open btw. :)
I can't guarantee it'd be ready for the next MVPs as they're really nearing completion now, but I could give it a go if you like.
I don't know, but I've tried collada today with everything, and nothing can import the file exported by max. .ase has collision detection problems, .3ds flips the faces of some turrets (and is a major pain in the ass to fix after importing into truespace) and I've tried a few other formats but they all suck.
Here are the max files for the ship and the debris (excuse the mess), and two textures for nameplates. If you need a different format, just ask. Hope you have more luck than me
[attachment deleted by ninja]
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Hmm. I don't know. Anim8or seems to work pretty well for me, though.
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.ase has collision detection problems
Collision detection should be able to be fixed with PCS2, unless it does weird things to the geometry of the model (making it unstable etc).
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Anyone else experiencing the Rick Roll thing? Did they have to start April Fool's day on GMT?! I was just going to download the nodemap for a campaign I'm thinking of so I can plan everything on graph paper, but instead, the link takes me to Rick Roll. I hope this doesn't last a full 24 hours!
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copy/paste the URL.
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That only works if a) it was your post in the first place, so you can edit it, or b) the text for it is the URL. The first was true for me.
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Also you can click quote for the post, and extract the URL from the quoted text (and not post anything obviously).
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I don't know, but I've tried collada today with everything, and nothing can import the file exported by max. .ase has collision detection problems, .3ds flips the faces of some turrets (and is a major pain in the ass to fix after importing into truespace) and I've tried a few other formats but they all suck.
Here are the max files for the ship and the debris (excuse the mess), and two textures for nameplates. If you need a different format, just ask. Hope you have more luck than me
Sorry, it's taken me a while to get around to this, but now that I have I can't open those files in Max 7 nor in 3d exploration. Can you possibly export as .OBJs, .Xs or as a last resort .3DS? As long as UVs are intact I can sort out anything else. :)
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I don't know, but I've tried collada today with everything, and nothing can import the file exported by max. .ase has collision detection problems, .3ds flips the faces of some turrets (and is a major pain in the ass to fix after importing into truespace) and I've tried a few other formats but they all suck.
Here are the max files for the ship and the debris (excuse the mess), and two textures for nameplates. If you need a different format, just ask. Hope you have more luck than me
Sorry, it's taken me a while to get around to this, but now that I have I can't open those files in Max 7 nor in 3d exploration. Can you possibly export as .OBJs, .Xs or as a last resort .3DS? As long as UVs are intact I can sort out anything else. :)
.obj export
[attachment deleted by ninja]
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Mesh for hull and dock have lost the textures. Turrets came through ok.
Eg. you can open the obj file in a text editor and search for usemtl to see the texture used.
Basically the hull and dock have a material applied but no texture. The exporter would have broken the mesh up into as many parts. One for each texture used. Don't know if it would have done the same for smoothing groups.
Hull - 7 textures?
Material 1 2 3 7 9 13 14
Dock - 2 textures?
Material 13 19
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Mesh for hull and dock have lost the textures. Turrets came through ok.
Eg. you can open the obj file in a text editor and search for usemtl to see the texture used.
Basically the hull and dock have a material applied but no texture. The exporter would have broken the mesh up into as many parts. One for each texture used. Don't know if it would have done the same for smoothing groups.
Hull - 7 textures?
Material 1 2 3 7 9 13 14
Dock - 2 textures?
Material 13 19
Deep exploration shows the textures correctly. Maybe it's just a problem with filenames?
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There may be a simple reason for that. Usually when someone exports an obj file they also include the mtl (material) file in the zip. Deep exploration would show everything ok at your end if the mtl file is in the same directory as the obj file.
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There may be a simple reason for that. Usually when someone exports an obj file they also include the mtl (material) file in the zip. Deep exploration would show everything ok at your end if the mtl file is in the same directory as the obj file.
Yes, you're right. Reuploading
[attachment deleted by ninja]
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The export look fine - Even the vertex colours came through
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By god does that mean it's done? Come May it'll be 3 years since this accursed thread has existed.
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Blend file with heirarchy and firepoints plus Truespace cob file. Nx give PCS2 a try.
Before VA starts, you may want to post link to debris and lods if you have them.
http://files.filefront.com/Iceni+blend+TSzip/;9993083;/fileinfo.html (http://files.filefront.com/Iceni+blend+TSzip/;9993083;/fileinfo.html)
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:eek2: IT LIVES!!!!
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Blend file with heirarchy and firepoints plus Truespace cob file. Nx give PCS2 a try.
Before VA starts, you may want to post link to debris and lods if you have them.
http://files.filefront.com/Iceni+blend+TSzip/;9993083;/fileinfo.html (http://files.filefront.com/Iceni+blend+TSzip/;9993083;/fileinfo.html)
Ok, I'll try it later today. I left out the debris because it's not important right now, I'll post it if this works. There are no lods yet, except for vanilla.
Edit: opened the blender file. Texturing of object detail0-2 is incorrect. The texture is rotated 90˚. Same goes for turret22-arm-1 and turret21-arms-1. This happens when I rotate the texture in the material editor in max, but I'm pretty sure I didn't do that since I know it causes problems.
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If the dock has that problem then anything using Tcov6a will also have issues.
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*Bump*
Thought I'd let you know, the Iceni has been completed and will be in the next MVP set.
I've carefully baked the textures down to one map and finished the LODs and full volume debris off, but only one rather uninteresting pic - since hopefully that next MVP set is not too far away now and you can all do your own ogling. :D
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Misc/HTL_Iceni1.jpg)
And no, unfortunately there won't be an updated boadicea in the release. :(
That asteroid-ship-model complexity scares me. :shaking:
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:eek: that looks awesome!
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*Bump*
Thought I'd let you know, the Iceni has been completed and will be in the next MVP set.
I've carefully baked the textures down to one map and finished the LODs and full volume debris off, but only one rather uninteresting pic - since hopefully that next MVP set is not too far away now and you can all do your own ogling. :D
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Misc/HTL_Iceni1.jpg)
And no, unfortunately there won't be an updated boadicea in the release. :(
That asteroid-ship-model complexity scares me. :shaking:
Great work! Thanks for your help
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Very good :yes:
I never liked the looks of Iceni much, but seems thats gonna change soon. :nod:
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:yes: :yes:
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Eh? Why's it say NTCv Belisarius on the side of the Iceni?
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You can read that!??!?
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Eh? Why's it say NTCv Belisarius on the side of the Iceni?
Because the nameplate.dds is modified to read "NTCv Belisarius" for one reason or another, and ship lab uses default nameplate for all ships.
As to the reason, probably troubleshooting reasons for making sure nameplate works properly on a model - it's easier to see that from a plate that has text in it than from a transparent nameplate.
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I've carefully baked the textures down to one map and finished the LODs and full volume debris off, but only one rather uninteresting pic - since hopefully that next MVP set is not too far away now and you can all do your own ogling. :D
Is it possible to get the files before then as I'd like to see how a terran ship handles one map. (and possibly bug you with some questions) ;)
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You can read that!??!?
[sarcasm]No, I'm just psychically attuned to the nameplates of ships posted in screenshots.[/sarcasm]
BTW, wouldn't it be great if bbcode had [sarcasm][/sarcasm] tags? It would prevent so many stupid arguments and name-calling and stuff... tho I imagine it would feel kind of funny having to read that someone is being sarcastic, it's better than assuming or not knowing they are, amirite?
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You can read that!??!?
Well, it's pretty clear that it doesn't say NTF Iceni :P
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You can read that!??!?
Well, it's pretty clear that it doesn't say NTF Iceni :P
I didn't see the nameplate at all until Aardwolf pointed it out...and I still can't read it.
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You can read that!??!?
Well, it's pretty clear that it doesn't say NTF Iceni :P
I didn't see the nameplate at all until Aardwolf pointed it out...and I still can't read it.
The "NTCV" part is pretty obvious. And the following word is quite a bit longer than "Iceni" ;)
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I had to crank my monitor brightness about halfway up to even see that there was a nameplate to begin with. :p
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I had to crank my monitor brightness about halfway up to even see that there was a nameplate to begin with. :p
:eek2: You might consider adjusting your monitor's settings...
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Hey, I'm on a CRT. If I'm going to spend several hours out of every day staring at it, I'm keeping its brightness level down to a minimum. :p
More to the point, that's one sexy model, no matter how bright it is.
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What's "ship lab"? And i might attempt a Boadicia :)
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F3 from the Main Hall. Lets you browse ships and weapons with a little more control than the tech room.
As for attempting the Boadicea... uhm, well, I recommend you try making a low-poly version and getting it in-game before investing too much effort into making it pretty.
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I though Nx already partially made the Boadicea (http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/Nx.devnull/Iceni#5163847572135512978)
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Linky no workey, but I do *vaguely* remember something like that. How far along was it?
Well anyway, if anyone does want to try the big rock I'll send them the nessecary Iceni files.
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Linky no workey
Dis one workey betar? (http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/Nx.devnull/Iceni#5163847572135512978)
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Indeed. If that's still going then cool, but if on the other hand it's been lost or abandoned, then it's not the huge loss I was afraid of fortunately. :)
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Indeed. If that's still going then cool, but if on the other hand it's been lost or abandoned, then it's not the huge loss I was afraid of fortunately. :)
It's just one of the hipoly asteroids modified to fit. I can post the file if you want
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Well feel free, but I won't be working on it. It represents a huge amount of work to get right, and I just don't have time ATM. :(
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Well feel free, but I won't be working on it. It represents a huge amount of work to get right, and I just don't have time ATM. :(
No problem. Actually I should have said "if anybody wants it".
BTW, could you send me the .blend file of the completed ship (IIRC you use blender, right?)
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Yeah sure: http://game-warden.com/starfox/Non_SF_related_stuff/MVP3610BETA/HTL_Iceni_DevFiles.zip
I think those are all the important bits. :)
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Yeah sure: http://game-warden.com/starfox/Non_SF_related_stuff/MVP3610BETA/HTL_Iceni_DevFiles.zip
I think those are all the important bits. :)
I think I found a problem...
This is how it looks:
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_uYaBYOlXeqw/SS1GHULETfI/AAAAAAAAAVs/hUj826ZoyAY/s288/iceni_incorrect.png) (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/_FCQteAR8TPD33x0QVqVUQ)
This is how it's supposed to look:
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_uYaBYOlXeqw/SS1GHpUm1pI/AAAAAAAAAV0/jSClMXWaj8U/s288/iceni_correct.png) (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/bL1eIoOzXLPZmkDNc9X-Yg)
The texture got rotated 90° during conversion (my mistake, I rotated it in max). It won't be the end of the world if it gets released like this, but could you fix this please?
Here (http://files.filefront.com/iceni+fixedtexturingblend/;12468570;/fileinfo.html)'s a blend file with the texturing fixed in case that helps.
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Sorry - the texture has been baked down to a single image on a rather complex UV map with baked on AO lighting and a baked glowmap + normal map. It would be possible to rotate it manually on all those maps and the shine map, but I kinda doubt that would work out too neatly.
I think it'd be best just to leave it as is really. I would have fixed it if I'd noticed it and/or thought it too ugly. ;)
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so after 3 years, it's done? THANK THE MAKER!
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But it's imperfect. . . . Argh!
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Heh? I thought there was a done, good, and ready version in the 3.6.10 gamma MVPs which are due sometime soon?
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There is...
An they are...
:nervous:
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is this iceni already in the mvp?
to maker, have you thought about beveling the corners of the main chassis? also, the triangle part where the head is attached to the neck, maybe the point of the triangle can be blunted.
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Heh? I thought there was a done, good, and ready version in the 3.6.10 gamma MVPs which are due sometime soon?
There is...
An they are...
:nervous:
@hudeswehr: And that was last November.
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ok sorry.