Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Mustang19 on November 09, 2006, 07:59:07 am
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I know that someone must have, but I did a forum search and it turned up nothing. There's a few interesting questions they could probably answer.
1. Did [V] ever do any preliminary work (concept art, etc.) on FS 2 < x < 4?
2. Do they really have a storyline for the whole series or are they just letting out cryptic, meaningless comments like "Shivans are part of a bigger problem" and making it up as they go along?
3. What's the point in the EULA you-may-copy-the-disk loophole? Was it intentional?
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Yes and no.
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Why do people iinsist on driving a wedge into the scar that waiting for *FS2 +1* left in my heart, and then pour a barrel of salt into it? :(
PERMA-BAN,
although, to have :v: 's survivors e-mail addy would be nice for me to have...... *subtle hint*
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I really like looking at FS1 concept art. I've read the FSRefBible many times to see how FS could have turned up. I also like watching old, scrapped cutscenes, like there was one in ST that had 'TFA' in the background, which could've been the original name for the GTA. I also think it's interesting about the original plans for FS1. If you look at the splash screen of FS1Demo, it claims there was a branching storyline. Too bad that never happend.
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Volition is, thus far, down and out as far as we are concerned...... no FS2*2-1
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Some members of the Forum are in semi-regular contact with the [v] team, indeed, on very rare occasions, members of the Freespace team have posted on here. They are perfectly aware of what we want, and they've made it clear that they would like to look at the series again, but as things stand, it's impossible.
Emailing them again won't change that.
Edit : Actually, by 'we' I mean 'some people', no offence to [v] but I rather like the fact it's all open ended, I wonder how long this community would have lasted if it the story had been concluded?
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I'm not asking you guys to revive the FS series. My questions where,
1. Did [V] ever do any preliminary work (concept art, etc.) on FS 2 < x < 4?
2. Do they really have a storyline for the whole series or are they just letting out cryptic, meaningless comments like "Shivans are part of a bigger problem" and making it up as they go along?
3. What's the point in the EULA you-may-copy-the-disk loophole? Was it intentional?
Did anyone ever ask about those things?
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1: No, all we know is that they would like ships the size of planets.
2: Apparently, according to those who met the [v] team, yes, there was a complete story.
3: Not sure, could have been anything from a printing error to a safety net, either way, it's legal.
There may have been concept sketches made for the next episode, but if [v] are still hanging onto the hope of being allowed near the series again, we are highly unlikely to see them.
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the one question I'd have for :v: is what the story line would be like. Inferno is, IMHO, the expanse of the FS2 storyline...
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I hope they don't. There's too much creative juice floating around these forums for an "official" storyline or ship design to do any good.
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Volition is, thus far, down and out as far as we are concerned...... no FS2*2-1
You know, I honestly don't get this attitude. What is wrong with [V][ at the moment except that they're making games for the console. Everything they've ever done as a company (with the possible exception of Summoner, which I never played and thus can't comment on) has followed the "Gameplay over Graphics" mantra that is repeated here by everyone except Deepblue. They do one thing well, and that polish, innovate or somehow improve the gaming experience.
In FS1 and especially FS2 they combined all the best aspects of older Space Sim franchises (X-Wing series, WC) and made Kick arse space sims that brought nothing truly new, but were just awesome to play.
In Red Faction they implemented Geo Mod which, as divisive as it is in terms of its usefulness and true impact, was at least an attempt to bring something truly new to the (even back then) largely stagnant FPS genre.
Summoner I can't comment on from personal experience though as I understand it received generally positive reviews.
Saints Row, again, I've not played, but the reviews I've read say that it's essentially to GTA style games what FS2 was to Wing Commander, X Wing etc. - nothing new or truly innovative, but what's there is done really well.
So, essentially, V has stuck to its roots, and made a bunch of solid games that have sold well enough that they can be fairlyu sure they're not going to get stuck with the next Olsen Twins or Britney Spears game to ensure profits. THQ seems to trust them enough, and I recall comments from Dave B that say THQ still give them a fair degree of freedom in terms of what projects they want to pursue.
Moreover, AFAIK, large chunks of the FS crew are still at V (certainly Dave B and Mike Kulas still are, and I think Adam Pletcher as well), and the motivation to continue the FS series is still there. With the possibler exception of their console centric approach of recent years, there's absolutely nothing wrong at [V]s end in terms of any future FS games. The real problem is now and probably always will be the rights to do the thing.
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last time I check, Volition was bankrupt. That's what I meant by "down and out"...
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Ten posts in a minute... this thread is getting hit like crazy.
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I think you mean Interplay, not Volition. Volition is doing fine.
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And one more question- is FS3 the end of the series? Will there be a 4,5,6,7? Or a prequel trilogy? 8) :yes:
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Lol, prequel trilogy?
456, then 123?
Interplay's site is still so funny...
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I'm not sure I want an FS3, largely for the same reason I don't want a System Shock 3... another game would just ruin the atmosphere.
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Although it is HIGHLY doubtful there will ever be a FS3, it'd be best for it to be released when the community is on it's last leg. That is, if the game should even be made at all.
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*In an attempt to save this thread from the dreaded "FS3" Syndrome, Dark Hunter changes the subject*
Have any :v: guys played user-made campaigns? And if they've responded, what did they think?
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Baranec just told me he wants everyone with a post count below 2000 to send him an email asking him about FS3.
In all seriousness, I think he'd die from his IQ dropping to below 0 after reading all of your thoughts. How many god damn times have we had threads with topics such as these? People need to be shot.
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Baranec just told me he wants everyone with a post count below 2000 to send him an email asking him about FS3.
In all seriousness, I think he'd die from his IQ dropping to below 0 after reading all of your thoughts. How many god damn times have we had threads with topics such as these? People need to be shot.
brown text would have worked better.
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If you look at the splash screen of FS1Demo, it claims there was a branching storyline. Too bad that never happend.
Actually, the campaign does "branch", but not in the same way as Wing Commander. Some missions are harder or easier depending on how you did in previous missions. For example, IIRC, if the Galatea's hull gets too low in "Paving the Way", then in "The Hammer and the Anvil" there are no friendly Vasudans to protect you from the HOL.
There may have been concept sketches made for the next episode, but if [v] are still hanging onto the hope of being allowed near the series again, we are highly unlikely to see them.
From what I understand, :v: had already begun work on a FS2 mission disk (like Silent Threat for FS1) when Interplay called it off.
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I hope they don't. There's too much creative juice floating around these forums for an "official" storyline or ship design to do any good.
A good story and campaign is a good story and campaign. Nothing can change that. Even if [V] were to tell us their complete story, that doens't make any campaign made so far any less impressive and great.
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Have any :v: guys played user-made campaigns? And if they've responded, what did they think?
If they haven't played any of the user compaigns, maybe we could send them an e-mail with a bunch of samples, like Inferno and Transcend. It would be interesting to see what their feedback would be.
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Huh, just found this on the website.
Volition, Inc. is a wholly owned subsidiary of THQ Inc. Publisher of Summoner and Red Faction for the PC/Mac and Playstation 2 and The Punisher for Playstation 2, Xbox, and PC.
THQ- that's the Warhammer company. Interesting.
If anyone wants to email them with some samples...
'http://www.freespace2.com/jobs/webmaster.cfm''
That's their contact adress acording to their webpage. Judging from the word "jobs" in the web adress, though, it may just be for people looking to get a job there. Most of their website seems to be devoted to attracting employees- not too much stuff about their games there.
Alternatively, there's [email protected] . I don't know if it still works, but that's supposed to be how you submit missions to the Freespace team so that they can include them in future mission packs. If that dosen't work, try [email protected] .
If anyone wants to get in touch with them, those are your options. In fact, if nobody tries those email adresses, I will. So get to it.
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Who HAS mailed them? I don't think they'd like a rapeload of people sending them stuff all at once.
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Unfortunately, they will probably get emailed because somebody done and posted email addresses and a bunch of people are going to think it's 1999 again. It inevitbre..inevitbre...inevitable.
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Be polite and use the contact form on the "contact us" link on the main website. Don't go around emailing directly, I'd actually consider that a breach of privacy. It also depends on how you ask them, and what exactly you ask them. I know though if someone just emailed me and I never gave them my contact info, I'd be taken aback a bit and be way cautious. I just used the method they have provided for communicating with them, and I got a reply.
I'm sure if people start asking "Where's the next Freespace game?" that they'd either trash it or politely reply exactly how other people on these boards have replied. Plain and simple, asking about what coulda been has been awnsered already, rights to such game are held by a company in financial limbo, and probably will never be released.
For my project, all I did was use that box, and when I got a reply from Dan Wentz, I started emailing him directly. I asked a polite question, explained what the project was for, and hoped for the best. I got pretty much everything I needed to make my project a reality. Believe me, Volition knows that we exist, and they are proud of our work. Everyone who has worked on FS1/2 held the game close to thier hearts, and they think highly of it. We, the community have awnsered everything though about a future installment, and honestly, it'd be a waste of time to bombard V with these questions.
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Got to agree with Nix here, recieving a load of various Emails in several mailboxes is not going to make the Volition crew kindly disposed towards us.
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So, should we just 'elect' one person to mail :v:, or should we just leave :v: alone?
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If you really feel the need to get in contact, I'd suggest following Nix' advice, get one person to contact them politely via the 'Contact Us' link, though I suspect you won't get much joy, but at least you can say you tried, and you never know :)
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I think if we are going to contact :v: about FS, we need to elect a single spokesman from the community. It should be someone well established in the community and familiar with the inner workings of the projects here, most notably the FSO and FSU ones, and possibly one or two of the larger mods. They should also be an experienced modder. An HLP'er who has some background in game design would garner more respect from :v:. We can't have a horde of HLP'ers e-mailing :v: all at once. It needs to be a measured event, or else they may not want to communicate with us.
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I've got a feeling they've got more pressing matters on their hands.
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Don't contact them. Ever.
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Tyrian, or anyone thinking along the same lines here... there's no point to having one spokesperson to talk to them about a question that's already been asked many times. Most of the admins here have had direct contact with Volition members, whether it be Dan Wentz, Mike Kulas, or even Dave Baranec, who USED to be a registered member on these boards. It's pointless, because don't you think at least a few of these admins have asked Volition about the "next Freespace", or asked for materials related to the "next Freespace"? Honestly, now. The question has been asked many times, and it's simple. FS3/related materials do not exist. FS3/related materials will not exist, unless rights are transferred from Interplay to Volition, or another company who would take on the project. If it ever does come into existance, Volition will contact US, along with many other media outlets.
Untill then, make the current Freespace universe even better. WE are the future for Freespace.
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Dave still is around on occasion, I've seen him on the list at the bottom of the forum a couple of times.
I think the last time he posted was, spookily enough, in a 'What would you like to see in... (you know where this is going)' thread, to which he replied. 'My Name' :)
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I was unaware that HLP admins had been in contact with :v:. I was just suggesting that we give them sample of our work here to see if it would stir interest within the company.
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Don't worry, it's not something that is made common knowledge really, but we've had people here actually visit the guys at [v].
Possibly, it might help, instead of the current 'don't ask about FS3' item at the top of the page, instead having a 'Read this before posting about FS3' item that describes what has been done so far and the reasons why [v] are unlikely to be able to answer any questions (for example, since Interplay actually still own the IP, how much are Volition even allowed to say under the contract?). That might be a bit more helpful than simply 'don't do it', and would probably answer questions such as this.
Edit : Though that post does have Kara's section of the FAQ on it.
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Don't email them. You'll only annoy them and be beating a dead horse.
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Volition is aware of our work, and they know we exist, so don't worry there either. They can't do anything at all without the rights, and even if they had the rights, THQ would have to give the green light to the project.
I agree, the FS3 thread should actually awnser questions rather than serve as a "warning" to those asking about it.
And to all those people who make such a dramatic event out of an FS3 thread, you need to get some thicker skin. If you don't want to read about FS3, don't read it. For those who have questions, we should awnser them, instead of getting all worked up.
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How about a FS --- 3 FAQ Thread?
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I guess on the subject of communication with :v:, there isn't much more any of us can do. This is probably another hands-off instance.
On the idea of an FS3 FAQ thread, I think it would be very useful in reducing the number of FS3 threads popping up lately. We could sticky it, then keep it open for a week for people to ask their questions, then lock it. Anytime a new FS3 thing pops up, an admin could update it.
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I say we just leave it open with a big sign on top of it saying "NO SPAM!!!".
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On the idea of an FS3 FAQ thread, I think it would be very useful in reducing the number of FS3 threads popping up lately. We could sticky it, then keep it open for a week for people to ask their questions, then lock it. Anytime a new FS3 thing pops up, an admin could update it.
let's do that. As of late, I have been posting FS3 in certain topics, though reminding n00bs to try to eliminate it from their vocabulary.
Also, I thought I heard somewhere that someone might have bought the Freespace rights from Interplay, and wants to keep it under wraps. Together, us and Volition might be able to purchase the rights. The biggest, and as far as I can see only, problem would be HLP and Volition buying the rights. I'm sure many, many, many of the members here at HLP would gladly donate to HLP to retrieve the Freespace copyright.
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Also, we should have a sign saying "READ BEFORE YOU ASK!!!"
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I know that someone must have, but I did a forum search and it turned up nothing. There's a few interesting questions they could probably answer.
1. Did [V] ever do any preliminary work (concept art, etc.) on FS 2 < x < 4?
2. Do they really have a storyline for the whole series or are they just letting out cryptic, meaningless comments like "Shivans are part of a bigger problem" and making it up as they go along?
3. What's the point in the EULA you-may-copy-the-disk loophole? Was it intentional?
1) No they didn't. I asked in person. They did have a bunch of really cool Descent 4 concept art that made its way into Red Faction tho :)
2) Mostly made up as they went along. I don't think they had a solid plan of where they would be after the end of FreeSpace 2 and the story sort of ended there. They probably would have wanted to try and do something else to clear that whole thing up but never got the chance. At least not yet.
I'm curious to see if the space sim genre will make a comeback.
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On the idea of an FS3 FAQ thread, I think it would be very useful in reducing the number of FS3 threads popping up lately. We could sticky it, then keep it open for a week for people to ask their questions, then lock it. Anytime a new FS3 thing pops up, an admin could update it.
let's do that. As of late, I have been posting FS3 in certain topics, though reminding n00bs to try to eliminate it from their vocabulary.
Also, I thought I heard somewhere that someone might have bought the Freespace rights from Interplay, and wants to keep it under wraps. Together, us and Volition might be able to purchase the rights. The biggest, and as far as I can see only, problem would be HLP and Volition buying the rights. I'm sure many, many, many of the members here at HLP would gladly donate to HLP to retrieve the Freespace copyright.
This, along with every single topic discussed in this thread has already been discussed before. I'm not trying to give you the impression of "STFU n00b", but please, do you know how much it would BE to acquire intellectual property rights from a publisher? Way more than this community is able to donate. Again, it's THQ's decision to let Volition acquire the rights, in fact, the rights would probably be owned by THQ, NOT Volition.
That, and it doesn't do any good going around blasting people for talking about the coulda been FS3. Explain to them why there is no FS3. Dont flame/bash/belittle them because that's going to make one more new guy not like this community. Image IS important, and if we're constantly fanning the flames of "you should be banned for even typing FS3" we're not going to have any new members show up. It should also be removed from the welcome speech, IMO. Doing it just encourages bad behavior with people asking about it. I wasn't impressed how the one guy got his topic stickied because he made several threads concerning FS3. More people flamed him and told him to "STFU, n00b" than explaining to him why we don't talk about this subject. That or at least post the link to Karajorma's FAQ section. Yes it WAS mentioned, but there were a lot of flames to go along with it.
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It's hard to write up an FS3 story, especially after Inferno, Inferno: Alliance, and, in 2200, Inferno 2....
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Since when are you not a n00b spartan? :p
And Nix; the community is so vehement about people posting FS3 because, quite honestly, we've seen it too much. I mean, most of us were nice for a long time, but after about the 1000th post you've seen about FS3, you just get tired of it. That's why most FS3 threads are basically insta-locked (and it surprises me that this one has remained open so long).
And I guess most newbies have a reason that they can post about it (search being down) but still - after awhile, it does get old, and people lose patience.
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I know, I've lost patience myself, and that's why we need a thread that's a little more explanatory to newcomers (n00bs, ugh) rather than just getting pissed off every time. Even if it's a cold, curt "Look here, <thread location>" then insta-lock, it's better than projecting a hateful attitude.
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I can understand why people would lose their cool. The horse was originally killed back in 2000 on the old VBB, and any mention of the alphanumeric characters of "f" "s" and "3" in that order would lead to the flamethrowers being pulled out. And that was six years ago. Basically, we just need one thread at the top of the boards explaining the whole FS3 situation.
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To be honest, I have always found it a bit ridiculous that people here get so pissed off with any mention of FS3, and I've been in the FS community longer than most of you. It isn't even such a common topic anymore; it's only in the last month or so that it has come up repeatedly. A sticky thread explaining the issue would do a lot to clear this up for newcomers.
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How about the FS3 FAQ Thread? Sticky it, and have a sign on it saying 'READ BEFORE YOU POST ANYTHING'. That should help. If needed, it could be locked if spam comes. I think I like that idea, it would also work pretty well. And we should also have a sign saying 'NO FLAMING'.
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To be honest, I have always found it a bit ridiculous that people here get so pissed off with any mention of FS3
Yeah, it really looks like some sort of a ritualistic tradition, rather than anything even mildly rational... pH3444R teh FS3!!!
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Which is exactly the point. Tradition. All cultures have them - Space Sim gamers have this one.
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The reason I don't like them is not because of the content, it's because they almost always end up as an argument, and as much as I like this place, I'll be damned if I'm going to spend all my time on it trying to keep a lid on those threads.
Even if it doesn't turn into an argument merely because it's FS3, I then have all the *****ing about what is 'Canon' and therefore applicable to FS3, and everyone argues about weapons and ships, let alone the story itself.
It's not that I'm anti FS3, it's just that I'm of the opinion that until we are told something one way or the other, we are not going to co-erce information out of any developer, regardless of who it is, it'd be like bugging Lionhead to reform Bullfrog so we can get a Dungeon Keeper 3, even if they were planning to do so, they wouldn't share that information with people who aren't directly involved with it until they were ready.
Personally, I think that the energy being used to discuss FS3 could be put to far better use.
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Seconded. But I still think that stickying a thread explaining the no FS3 posts attitude would be useful to the newcomers.
On the subject why this FS3 thread hasn't been locked, it's probably because it hasn't degenerated into a flamewar. I think this is a sign that people aren't tired of FS3 threads, it's just that we are sick of the arguments that result from them. We should probably include a statement in the FS3 sticky thread that FS3 threads may be permitted in a limited scope, as long as the stay away from the flamewar problems.
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No - we (me at least, and I know a few others) are definitely tired of threads asking about FS3, where it is, and bla bla bla.
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I'm with UT on this. Put everything what we know into it and lock it up. No discussion, refer to the info thread.
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Why not just create separate board for FS3 and let all of the topics just run rampant in there?
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lol.. no.
That's how rumors get started and blown out of porportion.
That's also something that would go AGAINST everything we'd work for. Like others have said, put that energy, and those ideas you have for FS3 into something for a current project being worked on or make your own!
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Why not just create separate board for FS3 and let all of the topics just run rampant in there?
That would just legitimize it. And then we'd start rumors. And before long there would be rumors making their way into magazines for game titles...and...oh wait. That happened.
Anyways probably not a good idea.
I'm fine with the occasional FS3 thread but I find it somewhat incredulous for people to post like we'd never thought of asking Volition about their plans or so forth. Of course we asked them. I was lucky enough to be in a position to talk to them in person. There was a lot of interest back a few years ago to do something more with the FreeSpace series...you can tell there is a real love for it. This was the game that got their studio rolling again after the split out of Parallax.
My guess is that the folks at Volition would go back and do another game or do something with the series because they really like it...but the market, publishers, and everything has to be right for that to happen. Stranger things have happened. Once upon a time the RPG and Adventure genre's were deader than doornails and now RPG is back and Adventure is being eyed cautiously.
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Honestly, I would like to know what plans :v: had for Freespace. Definitely not now, maybe in six or seven years after the game's modding community has slowed up, or at least until some of the mods that are in production to be finished. I'd bet that almost everyone here would want just even a little bit something official and absolute like sequel to wrap up the series.
I'd say it's a shame that it will never happen, but...
*looks at communities accomplishments
...it's not.
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+1 Ditto to TheSizzler. Course, they were kinda miaking things up as they went along... wonder if they even have a story? Probably not...
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I thought it was already posted in this thread that they don't have any material/story/anything for FS3.
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they could, with Woo's permission, use Inferno as a basis for a good plot.
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If anything, Woomeister should be asking them for permission, not the other way around. I don't think Inferno is copyrighted (is it? :nervous:).
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let's see, Woomeister asking permission for Volition to use Woomeister's storyline for Volition's storyline...... not buyin' it.
technically, Inferno can't be copyrighted because it's written for an already copywritten game. I guess it's possible, through many long hours of paper pushing with a lawyer, but IMHO, it's not worth it. Woomeister doesn't need to copyright it anyway, none of us could program as well as he could.
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technically, Inferno can't be copyrighted because it's written for an already copywritten game.
You need to take a refresher course on copyright law.
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There are certain parts he can copyright, and certain parts that he can't, that's what I meant. Hence:
I guess it's possible, through many long hours of paper pushing with a lawyer, but IMHO, it's not worth it.
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He owns the copyright on whatever he produces. However, according to the game's license terms, he can't profit from it, and :v: and Interplay have a royalty-free right to do pretty much whatever they want with it.
Whether the license is binding is quite another matter entirely, from both a legal and a moral point of view. :)
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thanks for the update Goober
sidenote: there was no intended sarcasm there.
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Don't most mission creators have a "all missions produced by the mission editor are owned by us" clause? I don't have the full version of FS2 (I use the HOTU) so I don't know what the EULA says, but I'm sure it says somewhere in there that :v: owns any missions created using FRED.
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Might be, might not i havent checXXorred but the intelectual content and copyright is ours :D
Amnywayz, its open source now.
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Well, if a remember well, I remember to see a dead link to a www.freespace3-decent.com from a page that icant remeber or something like, let me seach a little.
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Don't most mission creators have a "all missions produced by the mission editor are owned by us" clause? I don't have the full version of FS2 (I use the HOTU) so I don't know what the EULA says, but I'm sure it says somewhere in there that :v: owns any missions created using FRED.
Re-read goober's post.
Take for example, the campaign "homesick" created by Blaise Russel, is Blaise's original work. He wrote the story, crafted the missions, etc. That is his, and he sets what kind of copyright he has on it. Volition doesn't OWN the mission, but if they did like what they did with the "sim of the year" edition and include fan-made maps, they'd take some of thier favorites that users have submitted and publish them with the game. They may also take a mission or two that hadn't been submitted and include it in the pack, without having to pay the creator of the missions anything.
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Hell, it doesn't matter much. As long as they can't take say, Inferno, and make it illegal to download and then they sell it, then it makes little difference if they put it in a pack or not.
Leave the user mission free to download, and do what you like otherwise. Makes no real difference I think...
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Basically, the plot of Inferno and the models used in inferno are owned by their respective creators (or whomever they give ownership to), and that's the key point. If Volition wanted to use the plot of Inferno in FS3 (highly unlikely, for various obvious reasons), they'd need permission first.
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Honestly, I would like to know what plans :v: had for Freespace. Definitely not now, maybe in six or seven years after the game's modding community has slowed up, or at least until some of the mods that are in production to be finished. I'd bet that almost everyone here would want just even a little bit something official and absolute like sequel to wrap up the series.
I'd say it's a shame that it will never happen, but...
*looks at communities accomplishments
...it's not.
The thing is this. Most people don't want to hear this...but this is how things go.
Volition had plans to make another FreeSpace game...I think thats pretty obvious. And as I had said in the post right above yours that they'd love to do it. But thats it. There isn't really a grand scheme. I asked...there was much laughing...the reality is that they wrote a bible at the beginning for Descent: FreeSpace, wrote a very minor set of arc points, wrote FreeSpace 2 with its story and massive end point...and planned to come up with "something cool" to set off the next bit. DaveB had obviously some ideas of what would happen if they did another game and gave us his comments but I highly doubt that there were any serious discussions about future FreeSpace stories.
I think lots of folks would love to hear that there is this hidden script in a closet somewhere with all the details of FreeSpace 3. But thats not likely to be the case.
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Don't know if this will make anything more interesting, but... copied from my PM logs:
Just an update... the following was a few e-mail exchanges I had with :v: that you might find of interest.
Yes, I'm afraid I was looking for FS1 renders... :(
But, on a positive note, any information from Volition about anything Freespace (1 or 2) is like gold on the HLP. It's almost a cult, lol. So, although they could have used a Galatea or Bastion mainhall render, they (HLP) would be extremely grateful for anything (FS1 & FS2) they could get their hands on, I'm quite sure. BTW, they did manage to get the mainhall working, using a lower resolution... it just doesn't look the same as it would have.
Thanks for answering, BTW. :)
- Vol v-webmaster <[email protected]> wrote:
You’re looking for Freespace 1 renders, correct? Not FS2? It doesn’t look good for FS1 L Some of the tapes are damaged and we need to evaluate whether or not it’s worth sending to a data recovery specialist.
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From: Joshua Richards [mailto:______________@yahoo_com]
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 4:30 AM
To: - Vol v-webmaster
Subject: RE: Clarification :)
Hi,
This is Josh checking back in. Just wondering if you finished all those projects you were busy with. If you are, could you check into that old FS data you have on tape? If you're still busy, though, I don't mean to be a bother, I was just wondering if you had the spare time yet. :)
Thanks,
Josh
PS If you've got time and are interested, they've got screenies of the work they've been doing with the new graphics... and even these are outdated!
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,35998.0.html 3.6.8 Screenies Thread
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,25406.0.html A Celebration of Freespace
- Vol v-webmaster <[email protected]> wrote:
It's not a simple process to get all the data off the tapes. It would
require hours and hours of work, something nobody has the time to do at this
stage :(
To be more specific, I'd be doing the work and I'm totally and utterly
swamped. Try me in a couple months after I've knocked down some of my
workload. I have quite a number of time sensitive, major projects that need
to get underway.
I do need to get the data off those tapes before long, and it's nice of you
to offer to buy the equipment, but that's not necessary. It's not the cost
of the equipment - it's the timesink and the possibility of needing a data
recovery specialist.
Even then I can make no promises about whether or not the original source
art to produce the renders will be on those tapes.
I'm really not trying to cop out here, although it certainly does look that
way ;)
-----Original Message-----
From: Joshua Richards [mailto:________________@yahoo_com]
Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 10:51 AM
To: - Vol v-webmaster
Subject: Clarification :)
Hi, guys,
thanks for the response! (I was afraid everything was
dead up there, as the "Contact" page wasn't working
for a few weeks when I tried the first time.)
I was just wanted to clarify, though,
a) exacly what *kind* of tape drive would you need?
(What kind of tape would it have to be able to
handle?)
b) And, if I can get the answer to a), what's you
guys' mailing address? (If you guys have any time and
are agreeable to doing that sort of thing)
c) If I get a & b, would you guys be able to upload
that content, or get it to one of us (HLP) somehow? I
don't want to be a bother, but I figure it can't hurt
to ask, you can always say "no" ;-)
The reason for my asking all of this is that I'm
pretty sure the folks at HLP ( www.hard-light.net )
would love to get that stuff, (specifically in this
case, they're trying to port the FS main hall for the
FSPort project [they already have one version, but I
think they'd like the high-res renders, as it'd look
prettier]
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,22550.0.html
) As I said, the original FS stuff would probably help
them alot for other FS Source Code Project designs. (
homepage: scp.indiegames.us , but it's usually more
cutting edge at www.hard-light.net/forums under Source
Code Project, they've got the recent CVS builds and
such there).
So, I'm trying to see how much it would cost to get
that drive for you guys, assuming
1) It wouldn't cost a million bucks
2) You guys wouldn't mind getting it to us somehow
3) There's no legal issue with all of this (please, no
:( )
PS I've let three of the HLP members know that I've
contacted you, they'd probably know alot more (about
the project as well as which other members' projects
could use the stuff) as they're admins and such. But
I just decided to see if anything was possible to get
that stuff into circulation. The three knowing about
this are Goober5000 , karajorma , and WMCoolmon .
They said it couldn't hurt for me to try.
Any info appreciated, and if what I'm asking isn't
possible, feasible, or desirable for you or me/us,
sorry for bugging & wasting your time! :)
Thanks again.
Josh
(jr2)
--- - Vol v-webmaster
wrote:
> Sorry, all our old Freespace data is on some tapes
> that we don't have a
> reader for ;) They're nice and safe, but we can't
> get the data off them
> until we buy the right device. And we don't really
> have a need for it.
>
> Sorry to disappoint!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: _______________@yahoo_com
> [mailto:________________@yahoo_com]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 3:49 PM
> To: - Vol v-webmaster
> Subject: Question
>
> Name: jr2
> Email: _______________@yahoo_com
> Comments: Hi, do you guys have any old FreeSpace
> renders lying around that
> haven't ever been published? Specifically, I'm
> looking for the Galatea and
> Bastion mainhalls in high-res.
> I appreciate any help
> Thanks
> jr2
>
>
>
-
Wow, actually buying a tape drive for Volition? That's actually pretty nice, but everyone over there probably IS too busy to do something like that. Besides, tapes over time do degrade, and whatever's on them might not be readable. I had an old set of QIC-80 tapes that sat in my closet for about 10 years, when I went to fire them up, the tapes snapped in half when I tried a retension. Somehow, the tape just kinda.. melted onto itself to be sticky enough to cause it to pull apart when the retension was run. So, putting it simply, they'd probably have to send it to a data recovery center to get the data off, and that's gonna cost huge buckaroos. I was disappointed because the tapes had a lot of old DOS games on there, and a lot of old stuff I was into when I had my first computer.
Just a ballpark figure though on a modern Ultrium tape drive, you're looking at thousands of dollars just for the drive itself. Remarkably, the media is dirt cheap ($30-50 for a 100-200 gb tape I believe) and the older the tape, the harder it would be to get a drive that reads such a tape, and the higher cost you'll probably pay, unless you go ebay, which very well may destroy exactly what you want to save.
It's late, I didn't mean for that to rhyme.
-
+1 Ditto to TheSizzler. Course, they were kinda miaking things up as they went along... wonder if they even have a story? Probably not...
What's wrong with making it up as you go? Big companies do it all the time...prime example is Square Enix and the Final Fantasy VII Compilation.
Okay, that's a horrible example, as the Compilation storylines have just ruined the original FFVII story, IMO.
-
I didn't say there was anything wrong with it, just that it was likely that they were doing just that.
It's how I write English class essays. Make it up as I go along. Earn consistent A's, too. 8)
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+1 Ditto to TheSizzler. Course, they were kinda miaking things up as they went along... wonder if they even have a story? Probably not...
What's wrong with making it up as you go? Big companies do it all the time...prime example is Square Enix and the Final Fantasy VII Compilation.
Okay, that's a horrible example, as the Compilation storylines have just ruined the original FFVII story, IMO.
because that's what soap opreas do.
I don't like soap operas.
:P
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This debate is going nowhere. It's proof positive that they have no story for FS3, no materials, no anything. I still scream the question though: "Why does it HAVE to be FS3". We can make the story up any way we want! There doesn't have to be a FS3 to make people happy.
Somehow, I feel the people who've been round here longer than a year who've been through this over and over again will still know the truth, and the newbies will never be convinced that V just doesn't have anything for FS3. Face it, people.
I'll say it again. We are the future for Freespace. Make it as good as you want, about whatever you want.
-
...tapes over time do degrade, and whatever's on them might not be readable. I had an old set of QIC-80 tapes that sat in my closet for about 10 years, when I went to fire them up, the tapes snapped in half when I tried a retension. Somehow, the tape just kinda.. melted onto itself to be sticky enough to cause it to pull apart when the retension was run.
Kinda funny how they're supposed to be for backup, y'know, a fail-safe? I think that burning CD or DVDs would be better, they are supposed to last 50-100 yrs, if you store them in a good place. Too bad they weren't around when :v: made their backups...
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Well, people still use tape-based backup today, it's just that there's better technology available to do backups on. Like Ultrium, and such. The only problem is that they're all very susceptible to heat damage. You can leave them in the sun in a hot day and have the edges melt against each other. CD's and DVD's were definetly around at the time, it's that they probably did what any other company did and backed up all data that they could onto a massive 10+ GB tape (mind you, that'd be massive back in the day) Hell, when FS1 came out, I still used my QIC-80 a bunch. I had four tapes, but I soon upgraded to a machine that had such an enormous hard drive, I couldn't use the QIC-80 anymore. The QIC-80 does 400mb uncompressed, 800 compressed. I had an 8 GB hard drive, which is still in service today in the dos machine I use.
And Ive heard horror stories about modern DVD's lasting no more than 5 years, even if they're burned once, read a few times, put in a dark drawer or box, and later fired up again to find that they won't read worth a darn. That, and some discs in extreme humidity conditions might actually split, if they're dual layer. I've had one commercial DVD do that to me, and it's hella easy to do it to a DVD-DL. Just be a dumbass like me and drop it on it's edge. It was like cracking an egg, split right in two!
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That, and some discs in extreme humidity conditions might actually split, if they're dual layer. I've had one commercial DVD do that to me, and it's hella easy to do it to a DVD-DL. Just be a dumbass like me and drop it on it's edge. It was like cracking an egg, split right in two!
just duct tape the halves back together. It won't destroy your drive or anything... :drevil:
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And Ive heard horror stories about modern DVD's lasting no more than 5 years, even if they're burned once, read a few times, put in a dark drawer or box, and later fired up again to find that they won't read worth a darn. That, and some discs in extreme humidity conditions might actually split, if they're dual layer. I've had one commercial DVD do that to me, and it's hella easy to do it to a DVD-DL. Just be a dumbass like me and drop it on it's edge. It was like cracking an egg, split right in two!
I've heard other horror stories about burned CD's and DVD's splitting, warping, or otherwise deforming. I used to have a magazine article on what causes discs to deteriorate faster than normal, excepting the common causes. One of the more unusual ones was a case where a CD had warped because it had been written on with a Sharpie marker. Apparently the ink in those babies is corrosive/acidic and will seep into the disk causing the parts to separate -- even if it is a single layer CD. Kind of a big problem when a lot of people I know use Sharpies to label their discs.
-
...so why is it that, in the year 2006, all of those techie nerd engineers out there haven't yet been able to come up with a storage system that's fast, reasonably large, reasonably-priced, and can last more than a paltry five years? Honestly, from the way everyone talks about storage media, it feels like the only safe way to keep my files around is to chisel their code bit-by-bit into stone tablets. :p
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it feels like the only safe way to keep my files around is to chisel their code bit-by-bit into stone tablets. :p
Erosion FTW!
I've yet to have a normal hard drive fail badly enough that I couldn't get the data off of it by myself.
-
I have, a conner perhiperals 810mb hard drive. It sat in the back of my closet for over 5 years without power being applied to it, and once it was powered on, the drive was riddled with bad sectors.
Today, about the only promising thing is to keep everything on hard disk, then move it around whenever you get a bigger hard disk. I've done that with data I've had since I've started home computing back in '94.
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I have, a conner perhiperals 810mb hard drive. It sat in the back of my closet for over 5 years without power being applied to it, and once it was powered on, the drive was riddled with bad sectors.
Today, about the only promising thing is to keep everything on hard disk, then move it around whenever you get a bigger hard disk. I've done that with data I've had since I've started home computing back in '94.
Get a large external hard drive, and have two computers with equally large internal hard drives. Keep all of you stuff in a few folders that you always will remember, (eg, with me, \backup, \Copied CDs, \My Music, \Downloads, \docs <- dump "My Documents" there when using external HDD on the go.
use xcopy /e /h /i /c /k /v to copy 'em, and keep folders w/ dates in subfolders, eg \Downloads\CD burning progs\new 11-20-6 .
That's what I do anyways...
Oh, and use PD5's File Finder to search. Beats the crap out of Windows' Find File system.
ftp.uni-koeln.de/pc/win32/shell/pd5free.exe
I guess v-com doesn't have it on their site anymore, but they do have the free trial of pd6... haven't tried that though.
If you want to, just extract pdfind.exe out of the archive and use it.
-
I'm a Ghost 2003 man myself. Actually liked Drive Image a lot better though.
-
...so why is it that, in the year 2006, all of those techie nerd engineers out there haven't yet been able to come up with a storage system that's fast, reasonably large, reasonably-priced, and can last more than a paltry five years? Honestly, from the way everyone talks about storage media, it feels like the only safe way to keep my files around is to chisel their code bit-by-bit into stone tablets. :p
Thats why academics have the popularized concepts pertaining to space and time sensitive media. It seems that whatever is least portable and least practical (i.e. a stone tablet) is best at lasting through time. Whatever is space portable...like a portable hard drive or a CD...is most prone to damage and not lasting very long. Murphys law.
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There's also the law of resale. Basically, the original CD making technique made disks you could do all sorts of horrible things to and they'd still work fine, but that meant that once a CD was sold, it was money lost. In the UK, it's sometimes known as the 'Rule of the Lightbulb', since it would be very easy to make lighbulbs that never blew, but that would mean a loss of profit.
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CDs, peh. Use floppy disks. ;)
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There's also the law of resale. Basically, the original CD making technique made disks you could do all sorts of horrible things to and they'd still work fine, but that meant that once a CD was sold, it was money lost. In the UK, it's sometimes known as the 'Rule of the Lightbulb', since it would be very easy to make lighbulbs that never blew, but that would mean a loss of profit.
That, and making something like that is in itself expensive to mass produce. More money lost there. Kinda like the LS-120, the mega floppy disk made by Imation right around when Iomega's Zip disks started getting popular. They were way more durable than regular 3.5 inch floppies, could work in just about every environment (whereas at the time, Zip only worked in Windows environments, now they work just about everywhere, even DOS) but were hellishly slow and expensive to the end user. People didn't adopt the standard, and even more money was lost.
Can someone tell me this though, I mean it's ridiculous, and I might just be a dumbass, Why does a DVD-DL disc cost so much more than a single layer DVD? A Single layer DVD has two substrates, one a clear "dummy" substrate, where the other one is the dye layer. DL's have two dye substrates, yet are almost twice to in some cases nearly 5 times the cost?
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Can someone tell me this though, I mean it's ridiculous, and I might just be a dumbass, Why does a DVD-DL disc cost so much more than a single layer DVD? A Single layer DVD has two substrates, one a clear "dummy" substrate, where the other one is the dye layer. DL's have two dye substrates, yet are almost twice to in some cases nearly 5 times the cost?
I have read that the process of manufacturing for both DVD-14 and DVD-18 (17 GB) is really more complex and not comparable with the manufacturing process of a DVD-5, maybe the same is happening to the DVD-9.
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That makes sense with a higher capacity DVD, but it doesn't make sense with a DVD-9. Both layer's capacities are the same, and the process is just about the same as assembling a DVD-5. Sure, you've got to line up the layers properly, etc, I dont know the exact process on how a disc is made, but it seems like it'd be way easier to do.
My conspiracy module says that they might keep the prices prohibitive because it's fairly easy to strip a DVD of it's encryption and burn it to a DL DVD.
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My conspiracy module says that they might keep the prices prohibitive because it's fairly easy to strip a DVD of it's encryption and burn it to a DL DVD.
It's probabily. The only difference is that the DVD-9 adds a semi-reflective first layer, the second and deeper layer is the reflective one.