[ShadowGorrath]

The player will be a pilot for the Ancients.

I'm thinking of having 2 Shivan fleets- main force ( FSPort ships, massive numbers in the story ) and another ( haven't thought of a name yet, but those are FS2 era ships, that also include unseen ones ).

And yes, I need someone to make the interface too. Or at least the HUD, as I can probably make pre-load/load/menu/mainhall images.

[General Battuta]

I love Mobius as much as the next guy, but please remember, his (very strongly expressed) opinions should not be the sole force shaping your mod.

I'm fine with it being Lucifer-centric, and many others would be to. Avoiding feature creep is a plus.

[Droid803]

What is the problem with it being Lucifer-centric? I don't see there being a problem with two or three Lucifer-class ships either. The ancients Cutscenes pretty much state that it was a Lucifer-class vessel, or something similar that did the killing. Noone follows a bunch of fighters into subspace to kill them...right?

Another topic is beam cannons: Will there/should there be any? (since they're cool and what not)
If you go by Ancienst being only slightly more advanced than GTA and PVN before meeting shivans aside from subspace tech, then they wouldn't have beams.
The Shivans, on the other hand, are a different story. The Lucifer's SSL's are meant to be beams, as evidenced by the (rather inconsistent) FS2 intro movie. Would they have beam tech 8000 years prior?

[Nuke]

isnt it the same ship?

[ShadowGorrath]

The Shivans will be the only ones to have beam cannons ( Lucifer, or maybe bigger, but I'm still doubting there's need for bigger. Unless you want a Sathanas with 4 SSLs ? ).

Ancients will use different weapons for anti-capital.

[Galemp]

Be prepared to do most of the work yourself. Ideas are cheap; labor is not.

I have a whole slew of Ancients textures I can post this evening if you wanna do some reskins. I haven't had the opportunity to make any of my own Ancients but maybe someone else can use these.

[ShadowGorrath]

Depends on what quality are they. But post them please. 

[Mobius]

I love Mobius as much as the next guy, but please remember, his (very strongly expressed) opinions should not be the sole force shaping your mod.

I'm fine with it being Lucifer-centric, and many others would be to. Avoiding feature creep is a plus.

I know my own theories about the Ancients are different from others...

I find it would be good for ShadowGorrath to consider my suggestions as I want him to have a variety of things to choose. Most people would agree with the Lucifer-centric campaign, but there's no canon evidence stating that it was the/a Lucifer annihilating the Ancients.


I'd like to see new models to make the mod original. I think you can attract the attention with an Ancient based mod...

[ShadowGorrath]

I will have more Shivan cruisers. I made Shivan and Ancient anti-capital weapons today, but they need balancing ( the Ancient destroyer with new weapons dies from a FS1 era Demon with those new weapons, though the Demon has less of them and weaker  ).

Ancients need to be retextured. But only Knossos textures aren't enough to retexture all of the ships... I think.

[Mobius]

They're fine for warships and you can always integrate them with new textures.

Fighters and bombers need more attention, however.

[ShadowGorrath]

Fighter and bomber textures look very un-Ancient ( as in - they're not even close to Knossos textures ). And there's one bomber that's huge, has a beam cannon as a turret, and has more HP than a Fenris. Nerfed it down though.

I might upload screenies of the anti-capital weapons tomorrow.

[rbxplayer]

I am no expert like you guys but I find it difficult to believe that the Shivans had FS2 ships in the Fs1 era.

What's the use of not deploying them? When they had a fleet of Sathanas available, they just sent it against the GTVA.

The Shivans took a huge blow after the destruction of the Lucifer; ie they did not have dozens of them or similar ships in the vicinity which could simply deploy; like the large fleet of Sathanas in FS2

I think that up to meeting the GTA, the Lucifer was the shivans flagship; similar to the Colossus for the GTVA. I don't think that they had any other ships with similar firepower. The Lucifer was a breakthrough 8000 years ago and the Shivans did not yet have the resources to build more. Think of stone age technology when comparing it to Man's history.

It took them quite some time to return after its destruction and made sure that they have better ships; could be that they still had to develop them or just move them from the other side of the universe... but they needed time.

[chief1983]

Even if the Lucifer was the flagship in FS1, who says they had any of them at all, or anything resembling it 8000 years ago?  I don't know about depressions, but I would imagine that the Shivans have changed ship designs over the years.  I wouldn't expect to go back in time that far and see anything vaguely resembling FS1 and FS2 Shivan tech.  We know that the ancients probably had similar technology to the GTA, in that they were able to use it to conquer a vast empire.  We don't know what exactly that was, or what the Shivans were able to use to defeat them.  Maybe they had a completely different type of superweapon.  It's definitely completely up to the imagination.  Assuming they have the same technology 8000 years later though implies they've neither developed new technology themselves nor taken any from other species they've encountered.  I'm not saying that's bad, I'm just saying that those assumptions would be drawn if you have a technologically-stagnant race.  That could play into the campaign though.  Why do the Shivans even have this technology in the first place?  If they're not improving it now, how'd they get to that level in the first place?  Are the ancients and the GTVA really the most advanced factions the Shivans have encountered in 8000 years?  A lot of this campaign should be coming up with explanations for those questions, and possibly more about the Ancients as well.

[ShadowGorrath]

The Lucifer will be the biggest and toughest Shivan capital ship.

[Mobius]

I am no expert like you guys but I find it difficult to believe that the Shivans had FS2 ships in the Fs1 era.

What's the use of not deploying them? When they had a fleet of Sathanas available, they just sent it against the GTVA.

The Shivans took a huge blow after the destruction of the Lucifer; ie they did not have dozens of them or similar ships in the vicinity which could simply deploy; like the large fleet of Sathanas in FS2

I think that up to meeting the GTA, the Lucifer was the shivans flagship; similar to the Colossus for the GTVA. I don't think that they had any other ships with similar firepower. The Lucifer was a breakthrough 8000 years ago and the Shivans did not yet have the resources to build more. Think of stone age technology when comparing it to Man's history.

It took them quite some time to return after its destruction and made sure that they have better ships; could be that they still had to develop them or just move them from the other side of the universe... but they needed time.

1) FS is a game. The creators wanted to add better looking/armed Shivan stuff in FS2 and added it. It's so normal.

2) The FS1 Shivan fleet was a reletively small force...obviously, many designs didn't appear at all. You could find a Terran battlegroup without Boanerges, Perseus, Aeolus, Hecate and whatsoever classes of ships/spacecraft. It doesn't mean the Terrans don't have such units in other fleets.

[Galemp]

Here's the package with all my ancient textures... if you're still interested. Clicky clicky

[blowfish]

You can probably do tables yourself, but if not, or if you need extra help, I have experience with tables (especially ships and weapons).

[ShadowGorrath]

I have the tables covered ( Me with the wiki open in the background, and Flaming_Sword helping me a bit ).

Thanks for the textures. Now I just need to get back from school when the lessons finish . . .

[Hellstryker]

You want to know the reason the shivans did not send a massive sath fleet in FS 1? They wern't the same damn shivans, or at least it makes the most sense: The Ross 128 Shivans and the Nebula shivans are two branches of the same species that got seperated thousands of years ago, sharing similarities in only the weakest of craft. The Scorpion, Shaitan, Lucifer, and Trident belong to the less advanced branch, the Cain, Lilith, Demon, Nehema (Must be, due to the HoL developing the Sekhmet), Dragon, Manticore, Nephilim, Seraphim, Basilisk, Azrael, Mephisto, Asmodeus Being relitively old developements before the shivans split off from each other, and beam tech and newer ships belonging to the larger more powerful branch...

[ShadowGorrath]

Like seen in FS1 to FS2 and in Their Finest Hour, the Shivans start with weak ships, and then raise their strength depending on their enemy success ( Cain > Rackshasa > Lilith > Ravana > Sathanas ; no beam cannons and biggest ship is a superdestroyer > very heavy beam cannons, biggest ships are 80+ juggernauts ). Knowing that the Ancients were only slightly advanced than the GTA/PVE, but a huge nation, the Shivans sent weaker ships ( FS1 era ) but in large numbers ( very large ) due to no need for stronger ones, and it seems that the Shivans work that way. The Ross128 shivans were probably one of the leftover fleets from the Shivan-Ancient war. That's just my opinion. . .

P.S. Nothing to do with the mod story.