[CT27]

Judging by some of the comments I've seen, a number of people think the Aeolus cruiser was better than the Hyperion.  What does the GTVA gain by producing the Hyperion; also, would it have been better to make more Aeolus cruisers instead to fight the UEF?

[Dragon]

There's been a thread about it some time ago, it's got it's uses.

[Droid803]

maybe they're surprisingly cheap

[SpardaSon21]

With two next-gen blue beams (yes, SBlues but still blue beams) and presumably the meson reactor to power them?  They can't be as cheap as an Aeolus with two SGreens and a standard fusion plant.

[NGTM-1R]

With two next-gen blue beams (yes, SBlues but still blue beams) and presumably the meson reactor to power them?  They can't be as cheap as an Aeolus with two SGreens and a standard fusion plant.

Cheaper to crew them, quicker to build them than larger craft. Would also make use of shipyard capacity that can't build larger ships. Cruisers might fit into a bad slot tactically if you believe FS2 (and you probably shouldn't) but they do have a lot of advantages from a logistical standpoint.

[An4ximandros]

They are about as useful as a Lilith. Good for support, bad for anything else.

[SpardaSon21]

We're comparing the Hyperion cruiser to the Aeolus cruiser, not Hyperions to Chimeras.  Cruisers will always have inferior anti-capital ability compared to a corvette (unless you're the Lilith with an LRed) so they really need to be built as cheap fighter-suppression units, and its debatable as to whether or not the Hyperion is cost-effective in that area compared to the Aeolus.

[General Battuta]

They are about as useful as a Lilith. Good for support, bad for anything else.

Uh but Liliths are unbelievably good

[QuakeIV]

Yeah Liliths pretty much do anything extremely well.

[Droid803]

I wouldn't say liliths are good a killing fighters.

[NGTM-1R]

We're comparing the Hyperion cruiser to the Aeolus cruiser, not Hyperions to Chimeras.  Cruisers will always have inferior anti-capital ability compared to a corvette (unless you're the Lilith with an LRed) so they really need to be built as cheap fighter-suppression units, and its debatable as to whether or not the Hyperion is cost-effective in that area compared to the Aeolus.

Assumption: that the GTVA does not have a need for warm bodies with blue beams, no matter the size.

Answer: there are 80 goddamn Sathanas out there somewhere, the GTVA needs all the blue beams it can get its hands on.

The Hyperions are more than capable of basic ship defense, and the GTVA has largely proved able to confront Shivan fighter attack when the chips are down. It does, however, have a desperate need for all the anticapital firepower that can be scraped together. The Hyperion fills a gap in the yard sizes that can turn out new warships and the ability to build and crew them quicker than larger ships makes them attractive for the short-term needs of the GTVA, particularly if Capella meatgrindered their fleets.

[Mars]

Hyperions have a pretty good fighter screen - nearly Aeolus good, they're about as effective at taking down large targets as a wing of bombers, and they're capable of assisting in a shock jump, and they're very tough cruisers to boot! Also, taking down light cruisers would probably be a good use for them as well.

Edit: Although not strictly canon, if you played any of the HW:BP demo, you'd know that one of the easiest winning strategies is just to buy all Hyperions - they're cheap enough to buy in bulk and they have surprising firepower for their cost. Obviously Chimeras last longer, but they're relatively expensive

PPS I will say that I honestly think that cruisers are going to be exponentially cheaper than corvettes which are going to be exponentially cheaper than destroyers - simply because of the volume of materials required. For instance if a Hyperion costs 1 million Tev Credits to build, than a corvette will be 10 mil, and a destroyer 100 mil. I believe ( though I could be wrong ) that a similar principle applies to real world naval ships - not that an ultra advanced stealth destroyer doesn't have the ability to cost a lot, but it would have a tough time costing more than a super carrier and the size difference between those two classes is minuscule compared to FS scale. This is of course pure conjecture.

[SaltyWaffles]

What bothers me most about the Hyperion is that it's roughly twice the size of an Aeolus, despite featuring only small improvements in firepower and anti-warhead defense (though its pulse turrets do probably make a big difference in warhead defense).

After that, it's that the SBlue has a stupidly long fire-wait cycle, which combined with its modest damage per shot is a rather serious drawback. It would be much better off with a beam that fires twice as often but does half the damage per shot. It simply doesn't have the power to conduct effective shock-jumps against anything above a light cruiser, and given the overkill tendencies of the MBlue and BBlue against most targets, they're best supplemented by light beams that fire more often at the expense of less damage per burst.

With regards to cost: it does seem rather odd that the Hyperion would be cheaper than the Aeolus despite being twice as large and many years newer (along with the redesign the Aeolus already got that brought production costs down, IIRC). Especially when it comes to shipyard space, isn't that a major problem?

[Droid803]

However bad the Hyperion's SBlues are, the Aeolus's SGreens are worse.
SGreens barely pose a threat to shipping with that stupidly low sustained DPS (less than a single goddamn subach)
The SBlue is like twice as good.

[-Norbert-]

I suspect the Hyperion has major advantages in terms of subspace manouverbility, compared to the Aeolus.
While we havn't had any information about the Aeolus subspace abilities, AoA shows that the Hyperion can do incredible feats in that regard.

That manouverbility would make them very well suited for luring the enemies into a position that allows optimal use of the bigger shockjumping ships.
Of course that doesn't really work against UEF - with all their omni-directionally firing torpedoes they don't need to turn towards the cruisers to destroy them - but against the Shivans with their forward firing beams, it might be very usefull. And the Hyperion was designed as part of the specialized anti-shivan ships.

[SaltyWaffles]

I suspect the Hyperion has major advantages in terms of subspace manouverbility, compared to the Aeolus.
While we havn't had any information about the Aeolus subspace abilities, AoA shows that the Hyperion can do incredible feats in that regard.

Good point, actually. It would give cruiser-sized ships far more flexibility and viability in modern combat; their relatively frailty is made up for by their ability to get the hell out of dodge when things get too dangerous.

That manouverbility would make them very well suited for luring the enemies into a position that allows optimal use of the bigger shockjumping ships.
Of course that doesn't really work against UEF - with all their omni-directionally firing torpedoes they don't need to turn towards the cruisers to destroy them - but against the Shivans with their forward firing beams, it might be very usefull. And the Hyperion was designed as part of the specialized anti-shivan ships.

Eh...perhaps, but I'm a little skeptical. It assumes that the Shivans would never adapt to such a simple baiting method, and that the Hyperion's threat-level is sufficiently high to force a response even when a trap is suspected.

The Hyperion is actually rather well suited for fighting the UEF. While its AA capability is perhaps not as good as the Aeolus, it has far better warhead intercept capability--and the UEF loves its torpedo spam. Its SBlue's are not a big threat to Sanctus-and-up ships, but they're great for harassment and rapid raids on infrastructure and rear-line areas. Their range helps tremendously, and their slow ROF is offset by its high burst-DPS being enough to wreck the comparatively fragile rear-line and infrastructure targets. When facing warships, their firepower is valuable as a supporting element for corvette- and destroyer-level firepower--they can help to knock small chunks off of the health of a Karuna from range (even better if from the flanks) while the Kaurnas are tied up with bigger concerns. That dynamic requires good coordination though, and it's still not much more than harassment.

[QuantumDelta]

Eh, cruisers are fodder, it's best to consider cruisers working in a partnership, although this didn't happen much in canon, it's obvious which cruisers are better when you jump them in together.

Liliths' are okay because their PD turrets are decently fast (the shivan ones are far better then the FS2 GTVA ones), the fish launchers are somewhat effective against the AI, and the LRED is cool.
Aeolus are better, actually, because of the flak screen along with the better AAA coverage, the SGreens allow it to do a little bit of anti capital ship damage, but that's not really what a cruiser is there for.
The Hyperion - I must admit I haven't seen working in a pair, but as you see in BP, if it's deployed in a tactical fashion it can be very useful.

Frankly though they're all way too easy to disarm if they're solo, or even supported at a distance by other fighters/capital ships, they all need close support and a lot of attention.


Edit; I should also drop a note in here... Cruisers tend to be more fun to play around, they change the game(mission) dynamic faster than any other vessel, they shift player focus and priority on arrival, and thus have the most impact on your play.

[rubixcube]

Call me crazy, but the main problem with most cruisers is that made a right botch up of weapon balancing in FS2, the SGreen is ridiculously weak. It needs to have almost triple the power to make it effective. I bet if you asked Volition staff now they'd probably agree they made a mistake

[General Battuta]

I can think of nothing more disruptive to a sense of verisimilitude than a well-balanced set of weapons systems.

[QuantumDelta]

Quite.
Ships being different (LRed -> Lillith, for example) makes them more distinctive in the mission beyond how their polygons look too.