[Dark Hunter]

It was my understanding that Morpheus has been initiated. They're just not able to kill off "Vishnan-influenced" people until they've won the war and secured Sol.

[TheDemon]

On the nature of the Shivans and Vishnans:

The Shivans have a Nagari network composed of "anima" which are some kind of gestalt mind entity. Their thought processes and interactions are computational, which makes sense given their bodies are supercomputers, and the Shivan Nagari network also makes sense given that you apparently need tons of processing power to send Nagari communication. Each anima is capable of independent thought and action, some have specific purposes. The Vishnans call these anima "chaos" and that they "malign" and "forget". My interpretation of the holocide anima is that it interprets the Terminal Protocol and more importantly the intentions behind that protocol. Those intentions might be what the Shivans refer to as the "Brahams' designs", or they might be something different, but whatever they are they're aimed at preventing a second apocalypse.

The Vishnans either are or ascended to be psychic beings that share what they call a "Summed Psyche". So basically, they are of one mind, or at least, one will. The Vishnans claim to be operating on "pure Protocol", which they have maintained all this time thanks to their immutable shared psyche. So whatever the Vishnan intentions are, and those intentions changed between AoA and WiH, they're probably in accordance with the strictest form of Protocol. The implied criticism the Shivans make is the Vishnans don't pay attention to why the Protocol exists in the first place.

[Dark Hunter]

It does make sense. The fractured mind built on consensus sees the basic intent and adjusts based on circumstance; the single mind with only one point of view becomes fixated on one interpretation.



Just a side note: but I think I should mention that the word "apocalypse" has a double meaning. We usually think "world-ending cataclysm", but the original meaning was simply "revelation". I wonder if we should be so quick as to think that the "Apocalypse" referred to by the Vishnans was a cataclysm. The Vishnans say the Terminal Protocol was "forged in the First Apocalypse". That may mean that there was a great destructive event that motivated the Brahmans to devise the Protocol, or it could also simply mean that there was an earth-shattering (metaphorically speaking) discovery made that an event was coming in the future.

[^Graff]

Looking around, the trees are having epileptic fits...

"Oh brothers!  Why are you so cold?  You tend to the walls..."
"Our makers blundered once and unleashed the deepness that stalks the cosmos..."
Also, of you Ctrl-Shift-S all of the techroom entries, there is an entry for something called "Great Darkness."
I think that the Vishnans are using harvesting the collective psyches of the races that they have groomed and using them to shore up reality against some kind of cosmic horror.  Races that are not "pure" enough cannot be used. 
Races that fail to meet the criteria are culled to prevent them from accidentally opening up new holes in reality through experiments in subspace.  Or something.
The Shivans have been able to hold the great darkness back, but have never been able to defeat it.  Ken has convinced them that humanity might be able to do just that.
Shambala was stated to have begun as a counter to the Shivans' ability to open collapsed nodes.  I get the feeling that whatever it is, it's BAD for the universe, and the elders should never be allowed to use it.

[docfu]

The Transcendant is probably just an easter egg. You only see evidence of him when you're insane, after all.

I think the real "universal truth" is that a bunch of fanboys can't give up a game from ten years ago and since BP is their greatest work yet, they felt the need to tie their past storylines into the current project.

I'm all for it. All of this "speculation" is better than not having a game at all.

[General Battuta]

Ransom is in no way involved with BP, though!

[Dark Hunter]

Looking around, the trees are having epileptic fits...

You're one to talk, when your tree is seizing as hard as anyone else's. 

I know there's the "Great Darkness" in the models, but we really know nothing about it, except that apparently you're not supposed to look at it (I did... I ignored Ken's advice, turned around and looked at it... and nothing happened. The mission proceeded as normal).

"Oh brothers!  Why are you so cold?  You tend to the walls..."
"Our makers blundered once and unleashed the deepness that stalks the cosmos..."

^Where did these quotes come from? I do not remember them.

[Jellyfish]

From the 'Ken' mission in War in Heaven Act I. A bunch of cargos will appear and that phrase will appear if you scan them.

[Dark Hunter]

*facepalm*

I totally forgot about those! I need to go back and write down all the crap there so I can puzzle over it!

[General Battuta]

Looking around, the trees are having epileptic fits...

You're one to talk, when your tree is seizing as hard as anyone else's. 

I know there's the "Great Darkness" in the models, but we really know nothing about it, except that apparently you're not supposed to look at it (I did... I ignored Ken's advice, turned around and looked at it... and nothing happened. The mission proceeded as normal).

well that's odd 

[Drogoth]

I played through it again and turned around when Ken said not too. I got the weird spaz attack and then the debriefing about limbless bodies.

I'm kind of lost, was there a deeper meaning behind the limbless body metaphor? Did an insane Laporte wake up and kill all the crew and rip their limbs off?

Was creeped out either way haha.

[TheDemon]

Just synthesizing some points we know:

There's a tech room entry that goes by The Vishnans - What We Know. Looks like it's written by the GTVI. In it, it states that the Vishnan Great Psyche is an entity in subspace (this is also stated in the debriefing for Act 3's Universal Truth). The tech room entry also states that subspace surrounds all universes. We know from the Ken mission that the Vishnans maintain the walls. What are walls? The thing that surrounds something else. The Vishnans therefore maintain subspace itself.

Not only do walls keep things out, they keep them in. This is supported by the entry for The Great Darkness which hypothesizes that humanity lives in a quarantine zone of some kind.

The tech room entry also states that from subspace, the Summed Psyche entity ought to be able to observe all space-time in our multiverse in some limited manner. The data packet for Shivan Origins state in Shivan mindspeak "selective pressure for resumption of panoptic function". What's a panoptic entity we're aware of? The Summed Psyche. Furthermore, panoptic can also refer to a certain design of prison or institution. The data packet for The Great War stated in Shivan mindspeak "retrajectorize for mass upload to safe strata", which I take to mean influence the Humans and Vasudans so they become ready to enter the Summed Psyche. The conclusion is that within our multiverse-prison the Gardeners (Shivans), by the direction of the panoptic observers (Vishnans), attempt to cultivate life capable of meeting the requirements (enlightenment) to enter the Summed Psyche. This system and the rules it follows (Protocol) was set down by the Brahams, but is now failing.

edit: OH. Just had a revelation about the "selective pressure for resumption of panoptic function". This is from the Shivan ORIGINS module, which displays their mindspeak as they entered our multiverse. We know the Shivans preceeded the Vishnans. We know the Vishnan Summed Psyche now fills a panoptic function. Maybe this shows the Vishnan origins, as a species who were cultivated by the Shivans into developing their Summed Psyche, so they could fulfill this objective.

[docfu]

Oh, just a big middle finger to Ken in this one...

Turn on Track IR, set camera to rotate 180, thrust forward, see the "darkness", fly to safety...

Suck on that...

[^Graff]

You're one to talk, when your tree is seizing as hard as anyone else's. 

I was referring to *my* trees.

[Dark Hunter]

I played through it again and turned around when Ken said not too. I got the weird spaz attack and then the debriefing about limbless bodies.

I'm kind of lost, was there a deeper meaning behind the limbless body metaphor? Did an insane Laporte wake up and kill all the crew and rip their limbs off?

Was creeped out either way haha.

I believe it's a reference to Marathon Infinity.

You're one to talk, when your tree is seizing as hard as anyone else's. 

I was referring to *my* trees.

Ah, I see. Sometimes it's hard to tell on the Internet.

[-Sara-]

Or why is it that Falconer knows a lot, she taught Noemi to not look back, to never look behind you at the past. Was it all in preparation for her Nagari moment? Are Falconer, Kovacs and Vidaura also all Al-Da'wa? Is Al-Da'wa a manifestation of Cassandra, which manifests only in the minds of those it wishes, like Ken told the Shivans can do. Then Noemi was on an empty ship all along, imagining all those people, who all are Al-Da'wa. The greek myth tells that Cassandra hears the future, but is cursed that none will listen. But Noemi listens to Al-Da'wa, and people in turn are drawn to listen to Noemi.

[Jellyfish]

Are Falconer, Kovacs and Vidaura also all Al-Da'wa?

Or different aspects of her shattered psyche?

[docfu]

I've got a few ideas about Shambala, they aren't that hard...

Capture the Carthage -> Clash of the Titans 3

(I.e. Carthage/Orion based destroyer being used to disable the Sol jump node...again...ending with Laporte screaming "AND STAY OUY!" over the intercom as she detonates a meson bomb...)

Back to the Void

(Everyone packs up on Sanctuary...again and goes back out to hide in the nebula...only to be found by a different GTVA group in alternate universe and then the story just loops from there...nice Twilight zone ending there...)

Return of the Bosch

We find out Ken is actually just using Laporte to destabalize the UTF in the last days of the war. Project Nagari is all just a big information war to tie up black ops people and keep them busy while the regular ground forces mop things up. Then the cylons show up with Guyass Baltar in season 3 and everyone is like "what the hell..."

Oh wait, I mean Bosch shows up with the Shivans, er, I mean, the Shivans show up with Bosch...or at least...what's left of him...in an urn...

And then they kill everyone.

or...

Return of the King

The elders unleash Alpha 1 in a refitted Apollo fighter. That's right...THE Alpha 1. The undisputed champion of the original great war...who...somehow was also the undisputed champion in...the second great war...

And all sides of the battle, including the Vasudans, Vishnans and even the Shivans...stop and bow to the player who's trigger is actually linked to...the power switch of the computer

[PsychoLandlord]

I have a thought on Shambhala. It may well be outside the UEF's capability normally, but considering that the power players of this project have been influenced by Vishnans in the past, and they have commandeered not one but two Anemoi Logistics ships, which we've already established are capable of some pretty impressive feats of engineering, has anyone contemplated the possibility that Shambhala is intended to accelerate the Nagari process in Humanity?

It was already established that Humans are not born Nagari sensitive - it takes an outside force to create Nagari potential in a human brain. However, the UEF is in possession of at least two individuals who, by now, are aware of the Nagari phenomenon and have the best understanding of how it functions available to them. It is also implied that the Elders want the UEF to approach the Vishnan ideal - and part of that is a linking of psyches between beings, shades of which are arguably already present in Ubuntu. So, could Shambhala be an attempt to create some sort of device that would allow Nagari sensitive individuals to interact with the minds of those without sensitivity, and even induce the Nagari process in said minds?

If one wanted to get really out there, it could even be an attempt to pull all Humans in it's effective range (assuming it has one) into a primitive, rudimentary version of the Vishnan Summed Psyche - since being part of a noosphere appears to be an ideal in the Brahman Protocol. The implications of that would certainly be terrifying enough to drive a certain elder to seek out alternatives, methinks.

Just a thought. Admittedly, it's late/early here and I'm likely not thinking this through very well.

[Dark Hunter]

I've been doing some thinking about Ken and Capella.

When the Shivans refer to the Capella incident, they refer to engineering a "transabyssal gate". No real idea what that means, but then look at Ken... more specifically, where you meet Ken in the Nagari network: Capella.

When you finally reach Ken in the Nagari network, he says "Welcome to Capella", and there's a supernova going on in the background. Earlier on, Ken says "I hoard my secrets in the graves of suns."

I think whatever this "transabyssal gate" is, it's connected to Ken's creation. Ken is connected to Capella. Maybe in order to create Ken, the Shivans had to blow up a star to make a gate? The "transabyssal gate" may refer to bridging the gap between human consciousness and Shivan consciousness, which is exactly what Ken is meant to do.

In short, what if Ken is the transabyssal gate... and therefore the real reason the Shivans blew up Capella was to facilitate his creation?