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Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: aldo_14 on February 23, 2007, 03:33:29 am

Title: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: aldo_14 on February 23, 2007, 03:33:29 am
(http://images.xboxyde.com/gallery/public/4962/1210_0006.jpg)

http://www.xboxyde.com/news_4033_en.html

On Xbox Live Arcade; I think it looks kind of messy and ugly, to be honest, a straight MP arcade game with a famous name tacked on to sell it better.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Rand al Thor on February 23, 2007, 04:52:50 am
Yeah those shots certainly don't seem to have much of a connection to the series that I've heard of. (And very rarely played. Although that'll change now that I'm home and have saga to check out).
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Tolwyn on February 23, 2007, 05:12:51 am
I couldn't care less. This is not Wing Commander that I know and care about.

Speaking of Saga - we are preparing to launch some very exciting enchancements next week :)
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Scooby_Doo on February 23, 2007, 05:31:22 am
This is definetely not wing commander. Thats like making Quake a sidescroller and then having nothing in common with the original just the names.

Those cap ships look like Imperium starships LOL
(http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/5758/emperorclassbattleshipdivinerightps2.jpg)
HAHA I'd like to see some poor crazy soul try to model that for FS2  :lol:
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Wanderer on February 23, 2007, 06:00:37 am
The few pics of the fighters looked quite ok but otherwise that doesnt seem to have Wing Commanderish feeling at all. AFAIK it is a 2D multiplayer arcade shooter. A big disappointment for me at least. I had hoped for Wing Commander to be revived but not in this manner.

Those cap ships look like Imperium starships LOL

Battlefleet Gothic mod for FS2 would be cool though  :nod:
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Flipside on February 23, 2007, 06:10:03 am
I must admit to big concerns about this. Whilst it's nice to see Wing Commanfer appearing again, from the shots above I get the feeling it is going to be everything we were afraid FS3 would be if it were on console.

I've got a nasty suspicion that rather than being the rebirth of the series, this could very well end up the final nail in the coffin.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: aldo_14 on February 23, 2007, 08:55:10 am
Video; http://kotaku.com/gaming/wing-commander/clip-wing-commander-360-239079.php

Every WC fans worst nightmare?
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Flipside on February 23, 2007, 09:03:49 am
[Vader]Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo![/Vader]
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Gai Daigoji on February 23, 2007, 09:14:54 am
I think its safe to say that after this comes out it will be the end of Wing Commander.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Tolwyn on February 23, 2007, 09:36:30 am
I think its safe to say that after this comes out it will be the end of Wing Commander.

Only over my dead body :)

*BANG*

 :snipe:
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: brozozo on February 23, 2007, 09:37:01 am
The CIC is going crazy about this. Funny, I get unbanned and the next day, this pops up. To me, it looks like like they're leaning towards the style the movie established, which is okay (I guess) with me. Some people said there were classic WC ships (I think Rapier, Broadsword, and Dralthi were the ones noticed) in the screenshots, but I didn't see them.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Tolwyn on February 23, 2007, 09:37:51 am
The CIC is going crazy about this. Funny, I get unbanned and the next day, this pops up. To me, it looks like like they're leaning towards the style the movie established, which is okay (I guess) with me. Some people said there were classic WC ships (I think Rapier, Broadsword, and Dralthi were the ones noticed) in the screenshots, but I didn't see them.

neither do I.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Col. Fishguts on February 23, 2007, 10:01:22 am
Meh, looks a lot like a spiffed up version of that multiplayer-only 2D-space-shooter from the late 90s, the name of which I forgot. It's kinda sad to watch one of the great space shooter series being mutilated in such a way.

But it's also fun to watch the CIC going absolutely ape**** over this ;)
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Polpolion on February 23, 2007, 11:02:34 am
uh oh. you know what this means!?? FREESPACE IS NEXT!!!!! AAAAAAHHHHHAAHAHAHAHAAAAAHHH!!!! AAAAHHHAAAAAAAHHHH!!!


*dies
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Deepblue on February 23, 2007, 05:12:03 pm
Looks more like subspace/continuum than Wing Commander... :(

That reminds me, Continuum on XBLA would be lovely.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Gai Daigoji on February 23, 2007, 05:23:18 pm
It's just a cheap attempt to milk the Wing Commander IP for money, and in the process they are ruining the games that came before it. Makes me lose my faith in some of the stupid choices Games companies make know-a-days.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Col. Fishguts on February 23, 2007, 05:44:49 pm
Looks more like subspace/continuum than Wing Commander... :(

Ah yes, I meant Subspace.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Scooby_Doo on February 23, 2007, 06:10:14 pm
Meh, looks a lot like a spiffed up version of that multiplayer-only 2D-space-shooter from the late 90s, the name of which I forgot. It's kinda sad to watch one of the great space shooter series being mutilated in such a way.

But it's also fun to watch the CIC going absolutely ape**** over this ;)

The one I'm thinking of is Silpheed.

Heck CiC goes ape**** for the slightest things, guess that what happens when you have rabies  :lol:
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Scooby_Doo on February 23, 2007, 06:11:21 pm
Battlefleet Gothic mod for FS2 would be cool though  :nod:

Ya that would be an interesting challenge.  Are there any models of the ships?
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Sphynx on February 23, 2007, 08:02:40 pm
Didn't someone make a top down game of a Herc II versus a Mara or something like that some time ago?
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Polpolion on February 23, 2007, 08:05:22 pm
Didn't someone make a top down game of a Herc II versus a Mara or something like that some time ago?

Desktop freespace? (http://www.game-warden.com/desktopfs/index.html)
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Ace on February 23, 2007, 08:23:56 pm
The fighters do look sort of like Arrows and Rapiers, but why not have the capships also look like WC1 ships?
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: neoterran on February 23, 2007, 08:33:42 pm
Freespace SCP for 360 would mop this up.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Scooby_Doo on February 23, 2007, 09:01:23 pm
Lets see if it has banner ads in it, bugs galor, horrible controls and limited support.  ;)
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Unknown Target on February 23, 2007, 09:27:56 pm
What.
The.
****.
Is.
That.


EDIT: And seeing this game definitely lowers my hopes for the BSG game for Xbox Live Arcade.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Ace on February 23, 2007, 10:49:37 pm
I am *really* surprised how well CIC is receiving this. It almost seems like a neglected child finally receiving some love from a long-lost parent.

But really... it's not Wing Commander by any stretch of the imagination.

A 3rd person dogfight game focusing on the fighters without 'powerups' or 'destroy asteroids' and oversized space stations would seem better to me.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Deepblue on February 23, 2007, 11:58:34 pm
What.
The.
****.
Is.
That.



EDIT: And seeing this game definitely lowers my hopes for the BSG game for Xbox Live Arcade.

Is it being made by EA?
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: NGTM-1R on February 24, 2007, 01:00:52 am
Ya that would be an interesting challenge.  Are there any models of the ships?

The problem is that Gothic is really not suitable for such a mod from a gameplay standpoint; and besides, the greebles would make your computer scream in agony.

Now, if you want to talk suitable mods that need to come back, let's talk about the AeroTech 2 one.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Scooby_Doo on February 24, 2007, 01:23:49 am
I have found some at http://www.scifi-meshes.com/meshes/index.php?cid=10 (http://www.scifi-meshes.com/meshes/index.php?cid=10), but they don't look the same.
Ya with full detail they would be murder to do, never-the-less it could be fun to get something working  :)
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Wanderer on February 24, 2007, 01:38:49 am
The problem is that Gothic is really not suitable for such a mod from a gameplay standpoint; and besides, the greebles would make your computer scream in agony.

Now, if you want to talk suitable mods that need to come back, let's talk about the AeroTech 2 one.

But... But..  :( Then i wouldn't get my flying gothic cathedrals  :(


Though its true that BFG is not be suitable for space fighter sim.. HW2 (without resourcing) would fit a lot  better.

AeroTech 2 might be doable though.. Only downside is that some of models are really, really ugly. Might be cool though.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: DaBrain on February 24, 2007, 04:40:02 am
My first thought: "Wow cool a new Wing Commander game! Weeee!"

My second thought: "Omg wtf!?!?"


This is a bad joke. Maybe it will be a nice game to play for a half hour or so, but calling it Wing Commander is a crime. You can't do that.

I mean... I could replace some sprites in Worms with Gordon Freeman and call it "Half Life: The Battle!"
Could that possibly upset some players?  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Sphynx on February 24, 2007, 01:44:55 pm
Didn't someone make a top down game of a Herc II versus a Mara or something like that some time ago?

Desktop freespace? (http://www.game-warden.com/desktopfs/index.html)

Yes, that's the one! Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you Freespace 2: Arena.  :D It's not what you hoped for  :nervous: dare I say it?  :nervous: F*S*3*  :nervous: but here it is!

To be fair, Arena looks like a fun little game in and of itself. Nothing too deep, mostly fluff, but fun. I don't think I'd have any reservations about it if it wasn't presenting itself as Wing Commander. It reminds me more of Lunatic Fringe, actually.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Sphynx on February 24, 2007, 01:51:23 pm
I am *really* surprised how well CIC is receiving this. It almost seems like a neglected child finally receiving some love from a long-lost parent.


Well... that may have something to do with the fact that those who voiced opposition got banned pretty quickly and the thread got closed...

I can undestand that for LOAF and Chris and some of the other big players this is a big thing, and they don't want anybody raining on their parade. They've waited a long time for a new WC tite, and seeing other WC fans dripping with dissapointment is going to come as a bit of a shock to them. Honestly, I don't have a problem with someone else being excited about this, I just can't bring myself to get excited about it, that's all. I'm open to the idea that some people will think this is the best thing since sliced bread: I'm just not one of them.

Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Desert Tyrant on February 24, 2007, 02:48:51 pm
I'm sorry, but I have to respond to this monstrocity.
 This is notthing more than a cheap kimmick to ruin our childhoods :doubt:
 :mad2: :mad2:  ****ing EA ruin things they shouldent
 :snipe:
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Ulala on February 26, 2007, 04:13:45 am
I expect nothing less from them.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: DaBrain on February 26, 2007, 01:32:58 pm
If you wan to laugh, watch the interview on CIC.

http://www.wcnews.com/news/2696

"You choose to be either Kilrathi or you choose to be human, and that's something you couldn't actually ever do in any of the previous Wing Commander titles."

WTF? Of course you couldn't play the Kilrathi. Origin would have had to create a whole new plot, FMVs, everything... in other words,  a whole second game!
In a simple arcade game you just change the player shipmodel.  :rolleyes:

"It's an arcade game, so you want people to be able to just pick it up and play it, but it is a Wing Commander title, it is a space combat game, so you want to add some depth to it. So it's pick up and play, but there's layers of depth.

"Pick up and play" is good, so would be layers of deep, but they don't seem to be in the game. Unless there is a hidden story mode nobody told me about yet.

" [...]so with the right stick you can do barrel rolls, you can do flips, you can do immelman turns, you can do 180s and different ships have different special maneuvers that they can do."

Barrel roll?... wasn't that StarFox?...
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Starman01 on February 26, 2007, 02:25:06 pm
At least WCS had some influence into it, take a look at the name of the fighter/player on the left :D

http://www.wcnews.com/newestshots/full/arenainterview5.jpg
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Tolwyn on February 26, 2007, 02:27:37 pm
"You choose to be either Kilrathi or you choose to be human, and that's something you couldn't actually ever do in any of the previous Wing Commander titles."[/b]

I never really played Armada, but I believe that you could play as Kilrathi. So that statement is false :)
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: NGTM-1R on February 26, 2007, 02:46:02 pm
Tolwyn is correct.

Selective memory?
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: DaBrain on February 26, 2007, 03:34:33 pm
At least WCS had some influence into it, take a look at the name of the fighter/player on the left :D

http://www.wcnews.com/newestshots/full/arenainterview5.jpg

That's what I thought too.

Looks like the developers played WCS. If they are really Wing Commander fans, that wouldn't surprise me. ;)

Gaia Industries  +1 sympathy


I wouldn't blame the developers too much anyway.
Working for EA on a WC title is a pretty good chance... although they they where forced to work on a cheap concept with a (likely) very low budget...
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: aldo_14 on February 26, 2007, 04:07:48 pm
Tolwyn is correct.

Selective memory?

Heh, more likely they were given the barest of background material to work from.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Flipside on February 26, 2007, 04:33:15 pm
It looks like Gaia Industries use a standard graphics engine for their games...

http://uk.media.xbox360.ign.com/media/857/857555/img_4161482.html

That's a shot from Street Trace NYC. And while I'm on the subject, why does their texture artist outline everything in black?
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: DaBrain on February 26, 2007, 06:03:15 pm
I blame the coder!  :P

Doesn't look like something an artists could do.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Commander Zane on February 26, 2007, 06:10:48 pm
I think its safe to say that after this comes out it will be the end of Wing Commander.
Yeah, I'd have to agree. The movie did enough damage, this will just kill what's left... :doubt:
Too bad, Wing Commander was the greatest of its time...
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: redsniper on February 26, 2007, 06:47:23 pm
And while I'm on the subject, why does their texture artist outline everything in black?
looks like cel-shading to me...
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Flipside on February 26, 2007, 06:53:31 pm
I blame the coder!  :P

Doesn't look like something an artists could do.

I'm not so certain, look at the building behind the skater in that picture, what would you say the resolution of that image is? 64 x 128 maybe? That speaks of either poor mipmapping or an inexperienced texturer, though there is always the possibility of specification error at the design stage.

I've never played these guys games, so I'll reserve judgement on them, retro isn't always a bad thing, my guess is that EA feels that 'Unreal Tourney in Space' is a good way to attract new faces to the WC franchise (Also, I'll be interested to see whether the multiplay contains the usual EA requirement of streaming ad capability - The other reason EA likes multiplayer).

Personally, I don't like the look of it, the capship battles talk of completing 3 'layers' of capship, after which it explodes, sort of like fighting the Bosses in old 2D side-shooters, fun in the short time I don't doubt, but not really using the environment to the full. It's a quick-reflex arcade game, with power-ups etc. My concern is that the release of Arena, using the Wing Commander name, could actually damage the label 'Space Combat Sim'.

Edit : Yeah Cel Shader is a strong possibility, on inspection, those black lines go around the character model as well, which suggests post-processing rather than texture.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Bobboau on February 26, 2007, 09:03:40 pm
I've got a nasty suspicion that rather than being the rebirth of the series, this could very well end up the final nail in the coffin.

ARGGG!!! WC kiled teh genrah!!!
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Flipside on February 27, 2007, 06:00:16 am
:lol: That would be strangely ironic, all things considered....
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Sphynx on February 27, 2007, 10:58:56 am
Tolwyn is correct.

Selective memory?

Perhaps. Sloppy work is also another possibilty. They also made some other misakes, saying that in the original WC you could upgrade your armor, shields, weapons, etc. That was only possible in Privateer and Privateer 2, and the closest thing you could do to that in othe WC titles was choose your missile loadout in WC3 and 4. I was a little surprised that some of the "big gun" WC fans who jump on other inaccuracies like a junk yard dog on a T-bone steak let these errors pass by without so much as a warning shot across the bow.

Another bit of irony: among some hard core WC fans, some of the biggest critiques of FS has been a lack of characters and shallow story line. As far as I can tell, Arena has no characters and no real story line to speak of. Even Academy had some characters you were familiar with, and even Armada had a bit of a plot. But from what I am seeing it is just missing here.

You know, I might even feel a little differently about it if it had actually been made 3D. Even that little change would have helped. It still would have felt more like Star Fox than WC, but it would have made a difference. But each time I try to like it, the flat space concept just comes back to haunt me and reminds me that it will be very hard for a WC video game to feel like WC to me if it isn't 3D.

Maybe if they marketed it as an arcade game that people from within the WC universe play when they are off duty, I might be able to bend my mind... I have really tried to like the concept, and every now and then I will get a spark, but it just fades away. I tried, I really tried.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: gevatter Lars on March 01, 2007, 10:12:14 am
Some of the fighters look ok, when viewed in the selection screen. The caps look awefull. The Midway has way to much strange details added to it. Its has become also quite fat.
Well we will see what explanation they will have for that.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Flipside on March 01, 2007, 12:53:56 pm
Middle Age Spread ;)
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: gevatter Lars on March 01, 2007, 04:33:16 pm
Ah yes that explains it ^_^
Takeing a look again at the Midway...I could life with it except these spiky things and the round boxes I can't make any use of.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: DaBrain on March 01, 2007, 04:43:30 pm
Some of the fighters look ok, when viewed in the selection screen. The caps look awefull. The Midway has way to much strange details added to it. Its has become also quite fat.
Well we will see what explanation they will have for that.

Hehe, I just wrote the same thing on CIC before I've checked this thread.

Weird/useless details = No no
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Commander Zane on March 01, 2007, 09:24:44 pm
Some of the fighters look ok, when viewed in the selection screen. The caps look awefull. The Midway has way to much strange details added to it. Its has become also quite fat.
Well we will see what explanation they will have for that.
It's not that it's too fat, it's that it's now a short, stubby P.O.S. And the fighters are absolutely terrible...They ruined the Rapier design AGAIN just like the movie did. The game's just going to finish the damage the movie caused. I'd hate to see the Bengal Strike Carrier's design now...
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on March 02, 2007, 06:35:45 am
not to mention the sillyness they did by mentioning that whole Pilgrim-thing-turd.

I don't know why but people don't get it: The movie may have been Wing Commander, but it is to remain seperate from the games.

and incidentally: the CIC chiefs are fanboys.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 02, 2007, 02:22:24 pm
and incidentally: the CIC chiefs are fanboys.

No, they're sellouts. Any fanboy worth his salt would be screaming pure bloody murder.
/me is far more familar with fanboy behavior then he'd like.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Commander Zane on March 02, 2007, 04:33:41 pm
not to mention the sillyness they did by mentioning that whole Pilgrim-thing-turd.

I don't know why but people don't get it: The movie may have been Wing Commander, but it is to remain seperate from the games.

and incidentally: the CIC chiefs are fanboys.
It can't be seperate from the games if the movie had nearly every character from Wing Commander 1. The story (If I'm right.) also had the same plot: Kilrathi attack in Vega, Confederation pushes them back away from Vega.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Sphynx on March 02, 2007, 08:35:30 pm
Well, in some ways that is true. In other ways it ripped glaring contradictions into the story. For example, in the movie Bossman died before Blair ever met him. In the game, Blair and Bossman flew quite a few missions together and became friends. In the movie, Paladin was already in special ops when Blair came to the Tiger's Claw. In the games, that didn't happen 'till WC2, Paladin was a pilot aboard the Claw in WC1. In the game, Rapiers are not jump capable, in the movie they are. In the movie, Hunter and Blair don't get along. In the game, they are friends and take out a Kilrathi station together. In the movie, Knight dies very early in Blair's career. In the game, he is still their in the second secret missions part. That is not to mention that the Tiger's Claw looks different, there was a total re-visioning of the universe, etc. I could go on.

I know some people who would fight me to the deat h on this, but it I think the movie was more of a re-visioning of the game universe than a coherent part of the game universe. Nothing wrong with that in principle, it just gets sticky if you try to make the two stick together.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Commander Zane on March 02, 2007, 09:24:50 pm
I remember that much from what little of Wing Commander 2 I played. And yes, I know the Tiger's Claw looked different...it looked like a green paper towel roll...that opened up to let Rapiers take off and land...
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Ace on March 02, 2007, 11:43:22 pm
not to mention the sillyness they did by mentioning that whole Pilgrim-thing-turd.

Yeah... that was... stupid...

Honestly the movie would have been quite a bit better if:
It focused on say the McAuliffe missions of WC1.
Keep the ship designs like WC1, but have them a lot more darker, worn, and grittier. (so the bright greens are very... very... drab) Similarly uniforms and sets somewhat similar to the cutscenes in-game but made darker.

Having the Kilrathi ships look more like the ones in WC3 was fine... but the cats themselves needed to keep the overall red coloring and a look similar to WC3. Use armor to make them more menacing...

Ditch the submarine movie "shh! be quiet in space" crap. The whole hiding in a crater and 'depth charges' bit was somewhat fun and clever, but really the whole sequence should have been reworked into a cat and mouse game around a gas giant system and its closest moon. If some 'submariner' stuff was needed having the ships duking it out in the outer atmosphere of a gas giant (fighters inside the ship, say this is done as a desperate move due to losing too many bombers) would have worked.

A tight, coherent story tied around Confed's protecting a single planet (The Tiger's Claw having to draw off Kilrathi capital ships which could bombard it, etc.) and Blair's hitting the front lines and realising how bad the war actually is going would have been much better.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Unknown Target on March 03, 2007, 07:45:37 am
I actually liked the WC movie. What bothered me most about it were the stupid physics mistakes, such as gravity in space and the whole quiet thing. BTW, Sphynx, in the movie the Rapiers aren't jump-capable, when Blair jumped he went through some sort of gravity worm-hole distortion thingy.

And Ace, I'm going to have to disagree with your "better" storyline. That storyline would work only if people had some familiarity with the Wing Commander storyline - which most don't (I don't, I've only played WC4 and that was years ago).

I think the storyline they used was alright, just could've been done a whole lot better (minus the whole Pilgrim bull**** thing as well). If they had made it tighter, with less extraneous BS, and focused a lot more on creating likeable, believable characters rather than cookie-cutter "badass female lead," "hot shot pilot" "outcast hero" and "racist XO" then they might've had something that would've been recieved better.

And for the record, I also liked the ship designs in the movie. The Kilrathi fighters were rather uninspired (although we never really saw them), but the Rapiers were quite interesting (albeit a little cartoony). Again, with some minor adjustments we could have had a classic.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Mr. Vega on March 03, 2007, 10:29:26 am
I can't imagine LOAF being pleased with this game.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: DaBrain on March 03, 2007, 01:01:10 pm
and incidentally: the CIC chiefs are fanboys.

No, they're sellouts. Any fanboy worth his salt would be screaming pure bloody murder.
/me is far more familar with fanboy behavior then he'd like.

They are insane... The mods will insult you if you don't agree if them. And ultimatly ban you if they can't convert you.
First they tell you that only devs could decide what's best, but when a real developer shows up and has a different opinon, they 'attack' him anyway...

I've never seen a board like this before.

I don't even really think they like Arena. Hosting enough critical content that would be probably enough for EA to take down the site, they probably just worry about C&D letters.
Or they hope for 'something' from a few EA guys who were visting CIC.

If you don't like Arena or EA, you'll just get banned...
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Desert Tyrant on March 03, 2007, 02:21:22 pm
The reason they are so happy at the CIC is because of the fact its been ten long years since a Wing Commander game out, VS 8 years for Freespace.  Another reason they're attcking you, DaBrain, was because you came off as ass to them. Besides, they wont ban you if you dont like it.(they didnt for me)

On the actuall topic, I will wait for this game and I will buy it, just to see how well it turns out.(The new Midway model actually looks cool IMO.  The Battlecrusiers, hell no.  And I can live forever with just seeing the Rapier models from Wings 1 and 2, not the ****ty movie Rapiers)
Also, the  movie Rapiers were different from the Game ones, The game one had F-44A/B/C/G models, and was the second rapier.  The Movie one is the CF-117, and was over a hundred years old.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Wanderer on March 03, 2007, 02:50:02 pm
I guess i am of 'older generation' gamers as though i really would like to see WC:Arena to succeed (so that there might yet be a real WC game) i wont touch that game at all... It has far too many things that i really dislike, arcadish game (with freaking powerups) combined with multiplayer from which you might actually gain M$ points almost ensures fraghunting and extreme 'powergaming' which i both hate. That and it being a XBLA title..
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: DaBrain on March 03, 2007, 03:20:17 pm
The reason they are so happy at the CIC is because of the fact its been ten long years since a Wing Commander game out, VS 8 years for Freespace.

Does that really count? Pretty much all Wing Commander fans are really disappointed with Arena.
CIC is the only place I found multiple postive comments at once at.

Another reason they're attcking you, DaBrain, was because you came off as ass to them. Besides, they wont ban you if you dont like it.(they didnt for me)

I saw some closed threads there about the 'I don't like Arena' topic. Of course I knew they were going to do something act like this.
Still I never intended to start a war there and I've been very calm and patient with them. It was pretty hard. I never got so many stupid answers before... How would you deal with that?
When Loaf excused for beeing a jerk, I even thought that CIC might be ok when you stay away from the mods.
 
I don't really care about getting banned there. CIC just isn't a community where you can post your opinon. So whether they ban me or not, I probably won't go there anymore anyway.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Desert Tyrant on March 03, 2007, 04:11:37 pm
The reason they are so happy at the CIC is because of the fact its been ten long years since a Wing Commander game out, VS 8 years for Freespace.

Snip

Another reason they're attcking you, DaBrain, was because you came off as ass to them. Besides, they wont ban you if you dont like it.(they didnt for me)

I got so many stupid answers before... How would you deal with that?
When Loaf excused for beeing a jerk, I even thought that CIC might be ok when you stay away from the mods.
If I got a stupid answer for a legit question, i'd defenatly raise some hell.  Also, the reason why Jesus was banned in the "grave reservations thread" was because he (apparently) insulted the admins.  Fatcat got banned because he asked why in officialt channals. Meh, the whole thing is kind of ludicus.  The Admins are rather trigger happy these days. (Also, LOAF insulted HLP one time. Quote goes like this,  The only separating us from HLP is the fact we can keep a server up for more than an hour and sell your personal informantion to the Russians.  Yeah, uncalled for.  Also, doesent HLP have to run both HLP and Gamewarden on the same server at the same time?)
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: brozozo on March 03, 2007, 07:38:49 pm
Don't be so hard on the CIC. It's a nice place if you don't run afoul of the admins.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Scooby_Doo on March 03, 2007, 09:00:54 pm
Don't be so hard on the CIC. It's a nice place if you don't run afoul of the admins.

.... and keep your rabids shots up to date  :D
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 04, 2007, 03:43:19 am
Don't be so hard on the CIC. It's a nice place if you don't run afoul of the admins.

Which you do pretty much by being a thinking human being.

Oh the horror.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: DaBrain on March 04, 2007, 03:48:07 am
I didn't want to start a CIC bash thread here... that would be a very CIC thing to do.

@d3r3k
I guess. The Final Fantasy topic wasn't that bad. It was only weird that all mods that had to say so much about FF, when I mentioned the connection to Arena, never posted anything there. Not that I'd mind that. ;)
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Desert Tyrant on March 04, 2007, 01:31:56 pm
Don't be so hard on the CIC. It's a nice place if you don't run afoul of the admins.
Agreed, it is actually a decent place, but some of the guys there kind of act like dicks.  Although Loaf and Quartro are actually good guys.(You REALLY dont want to piss off Loaf though)  Speaking of which, d3r3k, why did you get banned from the CIC for a long time?
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Ace on March 04, 2007, 05:19:48 pm
And Ace, I'm going to have to disagree with your "better" storyline. That storyline would work only if people had some familiarity with the Wing Commander storyline - which most don't (I don't, I've only played WC4 and that was years ago).

The reason to use something like McAuliffe would be that 1) WC fans drool. 2) It has a simple, clear, strategic objective which gives the idea of it being part of a larger war.

Having the Tiger's Claw doing missions and hiding from capital ships to protect a Confed world as part of the bigger plans in Vega as a whole would convey more of a Wing Commander feel than the plot they did use.

- - -

On the Arena capships: My main issue is the coloration. The darker hull and red makes it look too Kilrathi. You don't get as good of a "at a glance" idea of what side the ship is on. The greebles are also too big, if they were say 25% of their current size it'd maintain the overall profiles of the capships better. Even if the red bits are for team colors, the general hull coloration doesn't seem different enough from the Kilrathi.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: brozozo on March 04, 2007, 05:57:49 pm
Don't be so hard on the CIC. It's a nice place if you don't run afoul of the admins.
Agreed, it is actually a decent place, but some of the guys there kind of act like dicks.  Although Loaf and Quartro are actually good guys.(You REALLY dont want to piss off Loaf though)  Speaking of which, d3r3k, why did you get banned from the CIC for a long time?

I ran afoul of the admins. We were talking about the Halo 3 super special edition, and my opinion was that it was not worth the money. Then the subject of a similarly priced ($100) WC super special edition came up, and I said I wouldn't buy it. Somehow, this turned into a very weak argument between ChrisReid and I, and I was promptly banned for a few months.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: DaBrain on March 04, 2007, 05:58:59 pm
Well the story is a big problem.

Not using a storyline isn't a solution though...

If you go for an indepenant storyline, the Wing Commander fans won't like it.
And if you continue the old storyline, some new people won't understand some things.


I'd still go for the Wing Commander targetgroup. You can't create a Wing Commander game and completely ignore the old players.
No, you'd have to do it the hard way and try to 'tell' the new players the old storyline too, without annoying the players that already know it... Might be quite a challange for a developer. ;)

Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Sphynx on March 05, 2007, 12:20:24 pm
I can't imagine LOAF being pleased with this game.

Actually, he is very excited about it.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: DaBrain on March 05, 2007, 12:44:59 pm
I don't think so.
He has a reason to push it, but I doubt that's the game he has waited for.

In the discussion with me, he admited that I'd prefer a WC game with FMVs too.

I don't think a real hardcore WC fan could like something like Arena. At last not as Wing Commander game.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Sphynx on March 05, 2007, 12:55:50 pm
Interesting. I hadn't picked up on that from him, although what you are saying makes more sense to me.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Flipside on March 05, 2007, 03:13:38 pm
Just watched that video again, is it me or does the player seem to take more damage in those scenes from bouncing off of stuff than anything else?
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: DaBrain on March 05, 2007, 03:19:14 pm
Well, I played subspace a few times.

It was fun, but pretty hard to control your ship... and aiming, by 'rotating' your ship was even harder.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Commander Zane on March 05, 2007, 04:29:56 pm
Just watched that video again, is it me or does the player seem to take more damage in those scenes from bouncing off of stuff than anything else?
What's funny is how every in-game demo is like that. Watch the demos from the Descent games and the devs don't last more than two minutes.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Unknown Target on March 05, 2007, 06:52:50 pm
The CIC has a full-body pic of the new Midway...wtf? It looks...evil.

EDIT: And reading about people's thoughts on it in the CIC...creepy how much they're falling for this game. And one of LOAF's comments was interesting...

 Originally Posted by XXXXX
I read that and had high hopes. I was expecting WC1 using the prophecy engine, or better. I was not expecting Zaxxon controls on a game that would play on a super nintendo.

--------
That's just the thing, this is far above and beyond anything that would be possible on the Super Nintendo. If that's what you really think, you're missing a huge part of what Wing Commander Arena is. All the high definition screenshots, positive first-hand previews, multiplayer details and such should make this apparent. This video interview/transcript we posted today does a good job of starting to get into this. What few screenshots and videos are available now also should give you a good idea of all the research EA did to get things right in a Wing Commander sense.
--------

Oh my god! It's better than what could have been done on the Super Nintendo! Bow down and praise! :p
On top of that...it looks like they missed a huge chunk of research. Namely that Wing Commander was, you know, 3D.


NOTE: This comment was not supposed to turn this thread into a LOAF-bashing-fest. I was just pointing out something that I found was funny.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: CatBomb on March 05, 2007, 07:31:54 pm
Quote
NOTE: This comment was not supposed to turn this thread into a LOAF-bashing-fest. I was just pointing out something that I found was funny.
It's not especially funny, because the comment is clearly replying to a post talking about the Super Nintendo... and it wasn't written by loaf: http://www.crius.net/zone/showpost.php?p=326900&postcount=6
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Unknown Target on March 05, 2007, 07:39:30 pm
Ah, my bad. I saw LOAF's name nearby and my brain fused the two posts :p

Still, 'tis a funny comment :p If you look, you'll see that I included the originally quoted post.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Flipside on March 05, 2007, 07:49:58 pm
I'm in two minds about it to be honest....

If it does well, then it could lead to one of two things, it could either re-open the doors of interest in Space Combat Sims, or it could forever brand them as a kind of Unreal Tournament in semi-2D.

I really don't like the idea of power-ups. That's way too arcadey for me to take it seriously, all it needs now is a 'Super!!!!' in huge Comic-Font flashing red letters when you collect them all.

'Must save Tiger Claw!'
'Tiger Claw in Safe Hands'

But then, on a more serious note, there are very few names that could carry Space Sims back out into the market, I would say the two most powerful of those names are Star-Wars and Wing Commander (though, admittedly, the gulf between them is massive).
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Unknown Target on March 05, 2007, 07:56:58 pm
People keep saying that space sims are dead, but man, I keep seeing two or three of them released each year, and those are the major ones...
And anyway, as a knock-off "arcade" title, I think that any hope of it bringing the space sim genre back in any way at all (or even be noticed) is just wishful thinking.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Flipside on March 05, 2007, 08:05:38 pm
The thing is though, they are getting released, but NOT being carried out into the market, they are an area of games you have to search for.

As an example, I bought City Life the other day, which is more or less Sim City for 2007. I haven't seen a Space Combat sim in just about any shop for years. There's actually more demand for City Simulators than Space Combat Simulators, at least in the eyes of the market.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Commander Zane on March 05, 2007, 09:23:12 pm
I read that and had high hopes. I was expecting WC1 using the prophecy engine, or better.
Wing Commander 1, 2, 3, or 4 with Prophecy's graphics would look awesome.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Col. Fishguts on March 06, 2007, 03:00:19 am
The CIC frontpage and forums are turning into a giant XBOX-Live advertising machine. They're giving Deepblue a run for his money ;)

It's sad and amusing at the same time...
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Sphynx on March 06, 2007, 10:54:14 am
I read that and had high hopes. I was expecting WC1 using the prophecy engine, or better.
Wing Commander 1, 2, 3, or 4 with Prophecy's graphics would look awesome.

Or with Saga's engine.... Have you played Saga's WC3 Tech Demo release yet? It really made me hope that there will be some effort to recreate all of the WC missions in the engine. (Not trying to toot our own horn or anything, just sharing a personal reaction).
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Unknown Target on March 06, 2007, 11:15:22 am
You mean the FSO engine? :p
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Flipside on March 06, 2007, 12:09:31 pm
Just read through CIC, first time I've been there in about 4 years....

Having read the moderators attitude to anyone who doesn't agree whole-heartedly with their own, I'm glad I've been away for so long....
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Ace on March 06, 2007, 03:45:31 pm
I'd love to get the WC1 models made by the guy doing the WC: Pioneer game and make versions compatible with FSO, and doing it as a WC1 game.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: DaBrain on March 07, 2007, 12:07:58 pm
If it does well, then it could lead to one of two things, it could either re-open the doors of interest in Space Combat Sims, or it could forever brand them as a kind of Unreal Tournament in semi-2D.

It's not a space sim. So if it does well, EA will either don't care, cause it's just an XBLA tile, or try to use more of it's IPs to create arcade games.


The CIC frontpage and forums are turning into a giant XBOX-Live advertising machine. They're giving Deepblue a run for his money ;)

It's sad and amusing at the same time...

Yeah, the forum never really interested me, but the news were ok. I took a look there a few times in a year.
Now the news aren't news anymore, but simple ads for XBLA, Arena and EA.

Saga was way more interesting for WC fans, but disappeared from the CIC news pretty quickly... :(
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: CatBomb on March 07, 2007, 02:04:17 pm
The CIC frontpage and forums are turning into a giant XBOX-Live advertising machine. They're giving Deepblue a run for his money ;)

It's sad and amusing at the same time...
I just checked the front page at wcnews and I see one Xbox Live Arcade news post.  I see one about Standoff, one about the HW2 mod, one about paper models, one about a WC Facebook group, one about a FiringSquad article, one about the previous poll, one about an unreleased Origin game, and one about Fatman's WC music CD.

Doesn't look so bad to me.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Scooby_Doo on March 07, 2007, 06:37:47 pm
You should have checked earlier then... UGH so much EA kissups.... must.... recover...... sanity.....
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Col. Fishguts on March 07, 2007, 06:58:25 pm
I was mostly referring to the numerous "News" on the frontpage in the recent weeks, that focused on the site admins playing XBOX games via XB Live, which struck as somewhat strange on a WC themed site.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Sphynx on March 07, 2007, 07:56:23 pm
You mean the FSO engine? :p

Yes, of course. Just a slip of the tongue. FSO looks good wearing Wing Commander, Babylon 5, Battlestar Galactica, even Starfox! It is very versitile. :) Still, if you haven't tried our WC3 mission tech demo, go give it a shot. :)
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: CatBomb on March 08, 2007, 06:38:30 am
So you're angry because the Wing Commander website posted about... the new Wing Commander game? That's kind of strange.

Didn't EA start the site years ago? This bitterness here seems extreme. I lurk at their forums, and don't find that appealing at all... but the page itself has always been very professional.  They've been doing that kind of "Xbox" update for years -- here's one about playing Ghost Recon from last April: http://wcnews.com/news/update/7038

I don't think it's so much that they're advertising (because, really, Has Microsoft been paying Chris Reid a percentage on every XBox 360 they sell?) as it is that they're trying some community building in the absence of new Wing Commander games.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Col. Fishguts on March 08, 2007, 07:01:15 am
I'm neither angry nor bitter. It's just that those XBOX updates made me scratch my head, wondering my such things were considered news-worthy on the page that is widely considered as the main hub for all things Wing Commander.

I'm not saying the CIC is involved with EA or Microsoft in any form, but the forums have definitively taken a step towards the 'GameFAQ'ness', if you catch my drift.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: aldo_14 on March 08, 2007, 09:42:50 am
So you're angry because the Wing Commander website posted about... the new Wing Commander game? That's kind of strange.

Didn't EA start the site years ago? This bitterness here seems extreme. I lurk at their forums, and don't find that appealing at all... but the page itself has always been very professional.  They've been doing that kind of "Xbox" update for years -- here's one about playing Ghost Recon from last April: http://wcnews.com/news/update/7038

I don't think it's so much that they're advertising (because, really, Has Microsoft been paying Chris Reid a percentage on every XBox 360 they sell?) as it is that they're trying some community building in the absence of new Wing Commander games.

It's scrabbling in the dust to resurrect a dead brand.....

....but if you reversed the positions and made it 'FS Arena', I have no doubt it'd be more or less the same sort of situation here. :)
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Unknown Target on March 08, 2007, 10:28:56 am
I doubt it. We'd ride it just as much as we're riding arena - when DS tried to revive FS, we all went nuts - I don't see how EA's any different.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Sphynx on March 08, 2007, 12:52:43 pm
I think they are prehaps just trying to generate excitement for Arena, and since there is only so much to say about arena so far, they might naturally talk about related issues (such as the X-box itself or the Arcade) to "keep up the momentum," so to speak.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: aldo_14 on March 08, 2007, 01:45:41 pm
I doubt it. We'd ride it just as much as we're riding arena - when DS tried to revive FS, we all went nuts - I don't see how EA's any different.

That's why I said 'more or less'.  Sure, the hard-core peeps such as you or I might moan, but ultimately we'd have to face up that the only hope of a true sequel would be for, ummm, our hypothetical FS:Arena to suceed.  From what I understand the WC admins are rather zealous with regards to a dissenting opinion, so we'd see less dissent crushed, but I think ultimately the optimistic 'maybe it'll lead to a proper game' viewpoint would settle in.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: brozozo on March 08, 2007, 06:26:13 pm
Didn't EA start the site years ago?

Nope, it's a fansite through and through.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Bobboau on March 09, 2007, 06:08:09 pm
That's why I said 'more or less'.  Sure, the hard-core peeps such as you or I might moan, but ultimately we'd have to face up that the only hope of a true sequel would be for, ummm, our hypothetical FS:Arena to suceed.  From what I understand the WC admins are rather zealous with regards to a dissenting opinion, so we'd see less dissent crushed, but I think ultimately the optimistic 'maybe it'll lead to a proper game' viewpoint would settle in.

correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they current 'correct' opinion in the CIC is that WCA _IS_ a proper game.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: aldo_14 on March 09, 2007, 06:11:48 pm
That's why I said 'more or less'.  Sure, the hard-core peeps such as you or I might moan, but ultimately we'd have to face up that the only hope of a true sequel would be for, ummm, our hypothetical FS:Arena to suceed.  From what I understand the WC admins are rather zealous with regards to a dissenting opinion, so we'd see less dissent crushed, but I think ultimately the optimistic 'maybe it'll lead to a proper game' viewpoint would settle in.

correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they current 'correct' opinion in the CIC is that WCA _IS_ a proper game.

Ok, then they would be nuts if they think a throwaway arcade game is anything beyond a tidy cash-earning spinoff.
Title: Re: Wing Commander Arena
Post by: Bobboau on March 10, 2007, 08:49:48 am
hence the 5 page thread. don't believe me go over there and ask them yourself,