[BlackDove]

Originally posted by Prophet
I most certainly am not judging nor am I analyzing.

Don't contradict me on the obvious.

I have to part of some project in order to present my opinion?

You need to be part of a project to present your opinion on SAID PROJECT ONLY.

Do you see me giving educational lessons to aldo about his Lost Souls?

And who are you to decide that?

I am someone who has been with the community for 7 years. I am someone who was responsible for a squad reaching and maintaining first place in a league in Squad Wars. I am someone who is affiliated with the group and people that has its name in the "Special Thanks To" in FreeSpace2. I am someone who is working on one of the projects you use "as an example" to make your retarded point.

The question isn't who I am. Who the hell are YOU?

Go. Away.

[Getter Robo G]

Yeah CP that was me.  (what's this eccentric business though?) I "retired" from the Army after my 3 year tour (1988-1991)

I think I flew like just a few months (once I got into modding I basicly gave up PXO and began my obsession with finding meshes all over the internet, especially of anime and OLD tv shows.) But I do remember there was a good crowd back then so it was always a good experience even though I REALLY sucked (and was lagging with my 56k connection and PII400, which I continually thumbed my nose at retail "limits" for battle of endor stuff.).  

I'd fly the new FS2net but my comp won't let me
I don't mind though, I got PLENTY to keep me occupied.

[CP5670]

I think it might have been someone else, since the one I remember had a cable connection (and a very different writing style ). I was on a lousy 56k back then, so I joined his hosted games quite often.

Maybe I ran into more than one SD but can't remember now. It all seems so long ago.

[Getter Robo G]

Nope then it wasn't me I couldn't host a tea party then. Strange though PXO registered me then so I thought my name was unique (or could you have two of same name ?)... I got DSL in 2003 and cable in like 2004

[CP5670]

Now that I think of it, the guy I'm talking about was actually StarDragon, with no space. Close enough. I believe he was relatively old, in his 50s or so.

[Blaise Russel]

Originally posted by BlackDove
I am someone who has been with the community for 7 years. I am someone who was responsible for a squad reaching and maintaining first place in a league in Squad Wars. I am someone who is affiliated with the group and people that has its name in the "Special Thanks To" in FreeSpace2. I am someone who is working on one of the projects you use "as an example" to make your retarded point.

The question isn't who I am. Who the hell are YOU?

Go. Away.

Your package is indeed impressive, sir, but I remind you that this is not a urinal.

[CP5670]

I seriously burst out laughing when I read that.

[Roanoke]

Originally posted by Getter Robo G
You forgot WHO I am (Star Dragon) first registered Feb/March 2002!
(why do you think I keep practically the same sig and added the line "I am the one and ONLY Star Dragon)

Don't believe me do a member search for my info and ask the mods...
(nm in case you too lazy to look):
I take accusations of LYING or resource hijacking VERY seriously so just don't go there... I had a problem on my end and they couldn't figure it out so I chalked it up to being hacked and re-registered under the Japanese name for Star Dragon (Getter Robo G). I lost my old post count and registration date... And that is your HLP history lesson for the day.

Uh, sorry dude, I was joking. Ofcourse I remember you as your old tag. Maybe I should have included more smileys. No offence intended.

I was only on VBB for a couple of months but I miss not having the developers around. I always thought that was really cool.

[BlackDove]

Originally posted by Blaise Russel


Your package is indeed impressive, sir, but I remind you that this is not a urinal.

Some people need to be pissed on just the same.

[Blaise Russel]

Even so, sir, I would take it as a personal favour if you stopped waving it about and put it away.

You're frightening the children, sir. And people are trying to eat.

[BlackDove]

I was trying to eat too, then he came and soiled on my plate.

So I had to take it out and lay down the law. Children need to know not to mess.

[TrashMan]

tsk, tsk...

[Jal-18]

It should be a sign of the size of the community that only one member so far has resorted to waving the e-penis.

Although then again, it could be a sign of the maturity of the community.  Hmm...

[BlueFlames]

Some people need to be pissed on just the same.

And you claim your attitude is so different than mine.  Pfft.

I'll also note that being a part of a winning squad doesn't automatically make you great management material.  In fact, throwing you gameplay resumé around, like it means anything in regards to your development management ability, kind of says that you don't have any relevant experience, so you need a crutch.

And, keep in mind, that when you ask who the hell we are, we're your audience.  When we're the one's you're supposedly designing the project for, it's bad form to turn around and say, "That may be true for everyone waiting[, but the] truth is, nobody on the staff cares when it's going to be released."

(By the way, BD, when I quote a chat log, as I did earlier in the thread, I make a point not to truncate at a point that omits part of the conversation.  I'm still waiting for that vaunted explanation you promised a couple lines down after your cut.)

To clarify, I'm not asking for a half-baked campaign from anybody.  I'm asking for campaigns that follow their original design plans, so that they might get released some time before 2050.  I can wait a couple years for a campaign, and tolerate delays due to real-life occurances.  I can understand when a campaign is held up because the staff lacks somebody with a particular skill set.  My complaint isn't with such issues of circumstance.  My complaint arises from poor management of a project.  When an add-on becomes a mandatory feature for release, and new technologies suddenly must implimented, just because they're there, the delays become nonsensical.  So many 'professional' projects in the gaming industry have fallen prey to this kind of feature creep, that I really hate to see it happening to the community projects here, hence my hateful fervor against such silliness.

[BlackDove]

Yeah, going into the details of me managing a squad is really the way to discredit me. Truly because of that aspect, I must know nothing about development.

Wow. Staggering stuff. What's next? Are we going to be generalizing which country and race is stupid?

Also, I cut that part because it wasn't relevant to your catastrophic line of thought. Feel free to quote it. I explained everything to you. If you didn't get that my explanation was "It's none of your damn buisness", that'd be your fault.

And keep in mind, when I say "who the hell you are to judge something that isn't your buisness", I actually mean "Go away and come back when you grow up".

I wasn't aware these things needed to be spelled out.

As far as "e-penis'" go, it was meant to illustrate the point that I know what I'm talking about in contrast to someone who has been here for only a few months. However, they also represent my work (because that WAS work, like it or not) in and with the community in one way or another.

It is also a fact, that many of you cannot display your achievments here, but then again, that's not my problem.

Also BF, I never asked you to be my audience or to not be my audience. I asked you not to act like an imbecile. There is a difference. Audience or not, it does not excuse you from acting like a moron.

[Kie99]

This thread is heading for lockage.

[BlueFlames]

You resort to name-calling, BD, and I need to grow up, eh?  Intriguing.

On the note about the audience, nobody gets to choose their audience.  Hollywood doesn't choose who goes to the movies; Broadway doesn't choose who partakes in stage routines; Valve doesn't choose who plays Half Life 2; campaign developers typically don't choose who plays their campaigns, and specifically, you don't have much say over who does or doesn't take interest in BWO's development.

Your so-called explanations aren't explanations at all, and that's another huge problem.  You make declarations, such as, 'You want this upgrade and that upgrade,' but you don't say why, and don't even consider the possibility that you're wrong.  If the voicepack and SCP upgrades are going to tack on another six to twelve months of development time, I would rather see them done as an add-on.  Other members of the BWO audience, that you so casually cast aside, seem to agree, judging from this thread.

"It's none of your damn business," again, is a declaration, not an explanation.  You say I'm not privy to any information whatsoever about development decisions because I'm "not involved" in the project, but when the project is being hyped as the next best thing to sex, you've involved your audience.  We don't need to know the day-to-day stuff, like what mission bug a FREDer needs to debug next, granted, but when you make a development decision that could come with another twelve month delay, your audience deserves to know why that decision is so important.  If a significant chunk of your audience disagrees with the decision, it's generally a sign that you should take note and take some time out to reconsider.  If Valve says that the next patch for Half Life 2 will change it into a third-person RTS game, people will disagree, and Valve will probably reverse the decision.  You wouldn't regard them as maintaining a professional standard if they brushed off their detractors, so why do you simultaneously regard yourself as working at a professional level while engaging in such unprofessional behavior?

I'm not going to grovel at your feet for making a campaign, no matter how many times you tell me to shut up and get back in line.  You're the so-called professional, so maybe you need to learn to take the bad feedback with the good.

[aldo_14]

If you don't like it, what are you going to do?  Not download?  Whine on the forums about it?  Because all your unhappiness... doesn't affect the developers in the slightest.  There's no sales to worry about, after all.

There is doing professional quality content, and working like professionals.  The latter is just stupid.... pros only explain what they do when it's needed for PR and the eventual sales.  Hell, I'd bet the only reason titles are announced prior to release is to get that publicity bandwagon on the road, and sometimes when the have still to attract publishers.  (the main reason for announcing campaigns is really to get staff)

Although... how many developers actually make their development docs public?  How many say 'we're thinking off adding this, but we can't make our minds up'?  

Isn't the one thing that annoys people more than anything else, when a developer releases something half-baked, buggy and behind the curve ("patch it in later!"), just to get the money-men off their backs?  And these are the people whose livelihoods depends on it, too.

EDIT; worth noting.  Half Life, one of the most succesfull games in history, was postponed for about 8 months or so because the developers decided it needed more work.

[BlackDove]

Originally posted by BlueFlames
You resort to name-calling, BD, and I need to grow up, eh?  Intriguing.

On the note about the audience, nobody gets to choose their audience.  Hollywood doesn't choose who goes to the movies; Broadway doesn't choose who partakes in stage routines; Valve doesn't choose who plays Half Life 2; campaign developers typically don't choose who plays their campaigns, and specifically, you don't have much say over who does or doesn't take interest in BWO's development.

Your so-called explanations aren't explanations at all, and that's another huge problem.  You make declarations, such as, 'You want this upgrade and that upgrade,' but you don't say why, and don't even consider the possibility that you're wrong.  If the voicepack and SCP upgrades are going to tack on another six to twelve months of development time, I would rather see them done as an add-on.  Other members of the BWO audience, that you so casually cast aside, seem to agree, judging from this thread.

"It's none of your damn business," again, is a declaration, not an explanation.  You say I'm not privy to any information whatsoever about development decisions because I'm "not involved" in the project, but when the project is being hyped as the next best thing to sex, you've involved your audience.  We don't need to know the day-to-day stuff, like what mission bug a FREDer needs to debug next, granted, but when you make a development decision that could come with another twelve month delay, your audience deserves to know why that decision is so important.  If a significant chunk of your audience disagrees with the decision, it's generally a sign that you should take note and take some time out to reconsider.  If Valve says that the next patch for Half Life 2 will change it into a third-person RTS game, people will disagree, and Valve will probably reverse the decision.  You wouldn't regard them as maintaining a professional standard if they brushed off their detractors, so why do you simultaneously regard yourself as working at a professional level while engaging in such unprofessional behavior?

I'm not going to grovel at your feet for making a campaign, no matter how many times you tell me to shut up and get back in line.  You're the so-called professional, so maybe you need to learn to take the bad feedback with the good.

Stupid is as stupid does. Name calling isn't my purpose of insulting you. It is the best and quickest way to describe your behaviour on this particular matter.

No matter how many paragraphs you write, you will only get the "declarations" which you should treat as explanations.

None of your buisness. No matter how much you try to provoke a response on the subject of "why" - which you are clueless to - you will not obtain it. There isn't any feedback for you to give, unless on specifically released material.

Other than that, it's none of your buisness. Development doesn't concern you. Bye.

[Martinus]

[color=66ff00]I think a few of you guys need to ignore this thread and go take a breather.

Aldo's pretty much covered everything in a sane manner with his posts. I'd also like to reinforce the fact that this is a community of volinteers, if you want to see a campaign sooner then I'd advise you to start paying or start contributing.

As someone who sees all of the internal forums I can quite comfortably tell you all that the people working on these projects are attempting to make the very best of Freespace that they can. They don't have to share the end result with you, they do so out of kindness.

Think about that.
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