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Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: MP-Ryan on January 23, 2019, 10:41:28 pm

Title: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
Post by: MP-Ryan on January 23, 2019, 10:41:28 pm
So a friend of mine who was crazy enough to pre-order Anthem flipped me a code for the VIP demo, which I'll be trying this weekend.  Anyone else going to be trying it out?

HLP_MP-Ryan on Origin.
Title: Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
Post by: General Battuta on January 24, 2019, 12:53:01 am
It looks increasingly less ****ty as launch approaches, but there's no way I'm touching a Destiny-style lifestyle game until players have had a few months to bang on the endgame.
Title: Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
Post by: 0rph3u5 on January 24, 2019, 01:21:05 am
I got a code from my PR contact earlier this month, I was going to pass on it 'cause Battlefleet Gothic: Armada 2 but if we get a group going I might as well join you
Title: Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
Post by: The E on January 24, 2019, 02:17:40 am
I'm definitely in on the Anthem train, but I probably won't be part of the VIP Demo thing (unless someone wants to shoot me a code?)
Title: Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
Post by: 0rph3u5 on January 24, 2019, 04:43:27 am
(unless someone wants to shoot me a code?)

Check your PMs

(That puts my Refer A Friend tally to 1 of 3)
Title: Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
Post by: The E on January 24, 2019, 11:48:17 am
Thank you, sir! I'll use this power wisely.
Title: Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
Post by: Det. Bullock on January 24, 2019, 12:16:14 pm
I find the game throughly uninteresting just by looking at screenshots and it being a multiplayer thing doesn't endear it to me.
Title: Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
Post by: MP-Ryan on January 24, 2019, 12:46:49 pm
It looks increasingly less ****ty as launch approaches, but there's no way I'm touching a Destiny-style lifestyle game until players have had a few months to bang on the endgame.

It will have to be stunning for me to even think about buying at launch... BUT, I see nothing wrong with tinkering in the demo(s).

Hey E, I'm busy Friday night but I'll be playing here and there on Saturday/Sunday.  Hop in a Discord voice channel or make sure you're visible on Origin if you're on and I'll either hop on with you orsend you an invite if I'm in a small group.  Some of my ME:A buddies are trying this out.
Title: Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
Post by: The E on January 24, 2019, 01:14:26 pm
Gonna be away for most of Saturday, but we'll probably be able to make something happen on Sunday.
Title: Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
Post by: MP-Ryan on January 24, 2019, 07:15:12 pm
I've split out the anti-EA hate parade.  This thread is to discuss playing Anthem - and specifically the demo.  If you want to go hate on EA, well, you now have a thread to do that.
Title: Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
Post by: The E on January 25, 2019, 12:29:29 pm
This game sure is an MMO on launch day.
Title: Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
Post by: 0rph3u5 on January 25, 2019, 12:57:12 pm
Well, waiting until you get out of the server quene :)

The loading screen before you get out of the Fort is so .... 1998.

EDIT: Okay, maybe it was just the server hanging up on me mid loading.
Title: Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
Post by: MP-Ryan on January 25, 2019, 01:26:29 pm
There is the definite possibility I may be able to play tonight after all... though E (and orpheus?) I don't know if you feel like getting up at 5-6 AM
Title: Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
Post by: The E on January 25, 2019, 01:50:20 pm
I feel like I will be dead asleep at that time.

Also, at time of me posting this, the game is hilariously unstable. Server connections don't stay around for long, causing instability everywhere, and right at this moment, Origin itself seemingly went down.

From the little I played, I can see some good stuff and some bad stuff. Good stuff: Combat feels good. A lot like Andromeda.
Bad stuff: The UX design is baaaaaaaaaaaad. One of the first screens you see is a short options menu that lets you set some basic options, and the part where you'd think a "continue" button would be is instead filled with an "Exit Anthem" button. The process of inviting others into your game is convoluted as ****; you go to the mission launch screen, switch to the "roster" tab (Insert rant here about how the UI in the options menu makes it really unclear whether or not options are changeable, a similar thing happens here), you select the "invite" button, select the "Friends" tab (hoping it will populate, it sometimes doesn't), then you mark the friend you want to invite, press "T" for some reason to open a popup menu with some "actions", one of which is invite, you mark that option and press enter, and then wonder if anything happened, because the game sure as hell doesn't give you feedback. Then you hope that said friend can actually join you.
Title: Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
Post by: 0rph3u5 on January 25, 2019, 02:07:24 pm
There is the definite possibility I may be able to play tonight after all... though E (and orpheus?) I don't know if you feel like getting up at 5-6 AM

I can't tell ... just check if I am on in Origin.



Agreed on both counts with The E as far UI and gameplay goes. The UI seems to be very controller optimized; gameplay however is very fluid and Iron Man'ing everywhere is a lot of fun.

However I seem to have a bit more luck with the stability of my sessions.
Title: Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
Post by: The E on January 25, 2019, 02:17:41 pm
Agreed on both counts with The E as far UI and gameplay goes. The UI seems to be very controller optimized; gameplay however is very fluid and Iron Man'ing everywhere is a lot of fun.

The thing is, I keep comparing the UI/UX with what Destiny does. That game operates under the same constraints, its UI is designed to be easy to handle with a controller, but it still feels smooth and solid on PC (minor niggles like having to hold buttons for an arbitrary amount of time before an action happens aside).
This does not feel smooth and not as well designed, on many levels.
Title: Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
Post by: Rhymes on January 25, 2019, 02:42:29 pm
It looks increasingly less ****ty as launch approaches, but there's no way I'm touching a Destiny-style lifestyle game until players have had a few months to bang on the endgame.

Having gotten both Destiny 1 (which I enjoyed for its fundamentals even as the endgame had problems at launch) and Destiny 2 (which I didn't, mostly for having learned the wrong lessons from D1), I am very much in support of this position. The setting looks neat, the combat looks somewhat interesting, but if the game doesn't have the legs to sustain it, it's not worth it.
Title: Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
Post by: MP-Ryan on January 26, 2019, 01:46:24 am
So, just got into it for about 45 minutes.  First thoughts:
-The UI is ass.  The E understated it if anything.  It is ridiculously complicated to do simple things in the menus.  Far too many button presses... and its button presses.  No mouse clicking some for you.
-It's pretty.  I mean, REALLY pretty.  Graphically it's a marvel...
-...and in terms of network performance its a flaming dumpster bin full of dog****.  The slightest lag rubberbands you to a spot.  Flying too.  Oh, and it disrupts flight control.  So that's [not] fun.
-Mouse sensitivity defaults are all over the place.  I had to crank it all to max and I'll dial it back, but with the network performance issues its hard to tell what's laggy and what's ****ty input response.  Flying, so far, is clunky.  I'm going to have to play with the settings, but the defaults are far from intuitive.  I'm not sure if they set these with a gaming mouse set to its maximum possible sensitivity in the drivers or what, but I feel like I need to bump my mouse to its highest input speed just to get this responsive in flight.  On the ground, the basic slider to max made it acceptable.
-In terms of gameplay... I did one mission, but spent so much time monkeying with controls that I didn't follow what was going on very well.  E is right that it seems to have a very MMO feel, where I was hoping more for a Borderlands-type coop experience.

I'll try some more tomorrow and Sunday.  So far, in its current state, definitely not recommended.  Just the fact that BioWare/EA did not anticipate the right level of network/sever support required for a demo has me highly concerned.
Title: Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
Post by: 0rph3u5 on January 26, 2019, 04:15:50 am
I am done with the demo missions and checked into Freeplay (roaming the overworld) this morning ... Still have not unlocked another Javelin other than the Ranger (but I've seen the Interceptor and the Storm in the wilds)

Network issues got better this morning; but the whole thing did make headlines (https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2019-01-25-all-ea-games-affected-as-publishers-server-network-struggles-amid-anthem-beta-launch) for just how little infrastructure they had for the demand.

The missions actually get better once the opposition evolves - the Dominion are just stock human-enemies with the odd enemy javelin in there (same goes for the Outlaws you meet roaming); the Scar are actually a bit more challanging with Snipers those rifle kick you out flight, Grenadiers that force you to keep moving, and Brutes Enforcers with big shields you almost have to be in team to take down (hitting the shield does 0 damage but when you get around you can shoot some weakpoints for extra damage); the Elementals are a bit in-between with smaller ones being like stock beasts, but the Titans actually need some awareness so you don't pump them full of bullets to no effect (Titans get vurnable spots when they charge their attacks).

Freeplay is actually more fun than the missions, although I wish there was a bounty board or something to structure it - right now you just go out, shoot some stuff you come across, loot ressources and gear, and do your challanges for XP. "World Events" are actually cool but I found they can't be solo'ed; a boss fight with roaming Luminary with another Ranger I happened to run into was particullarly fun (though we went down around 50% mark)
What detracts from the experience is that I frequently ran into "Leaving Mission Area"-borders when just flying around... again, maybe just a restriction of the demo content or me hanging around in the wrong areas.

I will get on today and tomorrow and see if how the dungeons play and try my hand at the Stronghold-group mission.

EDIT: Just saw a Collossus during Freeplay ... for 5 seconds, then he pulverized an outlaw camp with his mortar and jetted off

Also just got mangled by an Ursix during a world event, aka "the reason you will be glad for your ability to fly" - due to event's victory condition I has to put my feet on the ground and got cornered.
Title: Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
Post by: 0rph3u5 on January 26, 2019, 06:01:14 am
Went out on the Stronghold-Mission ... and it CTD'ed after the mission was over. (My progress was logged, so now I am proud owner of an Interceptor Javelin, but I my loot was lost my loot wasn't unpacked)

Until the crash however the mission was really fun - except for the short segments where we had to go underwater, and it got disorienting (underwater turning was a bit of drag to it). Might be even more fun, if the team had coordinated gear.

"Next time, I expect big-ass bugs to be in the mission briefing." :D
Title: Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
Post by: MP-Ryan on January 26, 2019, 09:47:41 am
Yeah, I played some more after my post last night and the network connectivity improved quite a bit.  Biggest issue is still stability; I completed a bunch of freeplay challenges, then got crashed out of freeplay mid-battle and then the game locked up at 95% loading back to Fort Tarsis.

If it wasn't for the network problems, I think it would be a lot of fun to just tinker with, but the instability right now is what's killing the experience for me.
Title: Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
Post by: MP-Ryan on January 26, 2019, 05:09:16 pm
Okay, today is MUCH better network and play wise.  Here's my thoughts so far.

-Pretty.
-Combat is responsive and quite fun.  MEA-like in some respects as The E said.
-Flight and swimming sensitivity controls on PC are a hot mess.  I still can't get them to a comfortable level.  What's responsive on the X axis is hypersensitive on the Y, and its far too easy to end up flying straight up or down and simply crash to get out of it.  Flight is NOT intuitive on the M+K.  I've tried inverted Y mouse and standard Y axis, and neither feels comfortable.  Basic flight is an integral part of the game, so it really should not be this clunky on any control scheme.  It's pretty apparent this was designed for a console controller and the PC mouse+keyboard option was an afterthought.
-The UI/UX is, if anything, worse as you spend more time in it.  It's like they looked at MEA and went "you know, I think people's complaint about too many menus was just that they aweren't visually stimulating enough.  6 layers of dense menus are an excellent design choice, it's just a visual problem."  HOLY **** NO.

Encouragingly, this thread is a fantastic summary and a BioWare employee did make a response to it: https://www.reddit.com/r/AnthemTheGame/comments/ak0g9g/no_spoilers_the_pc_version_is_an_afterthought/
Title: Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
Post by: 0rph3u5 on January 27, 2019, 03:01:12 am
It's pretty apparent this was designed for a console controller and the PC mouse+keyboard option was an afterthought.

I always wonder why that suprises people. Shooters are by genre-definition about quick reaction and in the design phase steamlining the controls to single scheme is easiest way to achive a baseline for input time by the user, which then helps you nail down other aspects of gameplay to the second.

Basic flight is an integral part of the game, so it really should not be this clunky on any control scheme

To me, when starting out, the problem quickly became that there is no tutorial to teach you which mode of mobility the game wants you to employ when.

Flight is very much defined by its strong fowards momentum and slow turn rate (which is also slighty de-coupled from actually turning the camera, so you can look around) and is mostly useful for traversal when you can see the road ahead clearly. It is generally advantageous to start form an elevated position or a ramp, if not avalible you will have to spend some time simpling rising straight up. In combat, Flight is only useful in short bursts to escape or maneuver, like hoping over an Enforcer's Shield (hoping its flamethrower doesn't overheat your engines) and then go into Hover to shoot down on it.
Hover outside of combat is useful to make the sharp turns, in a Flight-to-Hover, then turn, then Hover-to-Flight maneuver. The transition takes a lot of gauge, so often it is more useful to just drop into Walking and go for a bit.

I had a hard time until I got that Walking/Spriniting isn't just there for when your Flight Gauge runs out.

Swimming is a different beast, esspecially due to the physics simulation. I haven't played any recent shooters that did underwater traversal but the physics of the Javelin underwater are signficant. You experience drag and when you enter a body of water you have to let the intial momentum wear off or you will widly overcorrect. I wish there was a reset camera button like in Gravity Rush 2 (where you "fly" by redefining "down" for falling).

ps. I was able to secure time in the communal laundry room of my building last minute. I am home all day today, so just hit me up before the demo ends.
Title: Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
Post by: MP-Ryan on January 27, 2019, 11:12:35 am
I always wonder why that suprises people. Shooters are by genre-definition about quick reaction and in the design phase steamlining the controls to single scheme is easiest way to achive a baseline for input time by the user, which then helps you nail down other aspects of gameplay to the second.

The problem with this is the inputs are corrected to a controller stick, like a joystick, which reverts to neutral when you stop applying input to it.  A mouse doesn't do that.  As the reddit thread points out, BioWare has tried in part to handle this by implementing negative mouse acceleration, but given the fast response time of the mouse (even when turned down), that makes the problem worse if anything.  The solution is, as numerous people also said in the thread, fixing the controls so mouse input is 1:1, eliminating the corrections necessary for a controller stick.

The real problem here is PC-based controls are infinitely more precise than a controller is capable of being, especially with modern mice, and they require dedicated support, not a half-baked attempt to map an entirely different set of inputs to controller malarky.

This goes double for the "press and hold" idiocy in menus, etc, and the UI generally.  Just let us ****ing click on menu items directly, why do I have to click separately into the submenu when I can already see the content.

---

On the plus side, flight and swimming controls aside, which are fixable, the gameplay with a group is fairly fun.  The demo content is extremely shallow so its not a good indication of what the game will actually be like, but the core gameplay definitely has promise.
Title: Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
Post by: The E on January 27, 2019, 11:21:43 am
This game plays so much better with a controller, it's amazing.

So I got to play some more today; we did the story missions and the dungeon-ish thing, and yeah: Game is fun...

... when it works. Which it frequently doesn't; I ran into several infinite load screens and other bugs that were quite vexing. Definitely gonna jump into the full game when it releases, but probably not on launch day.
Title: Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
Post by: General Battuta on January 27, 2019, 12:23:47 pm
God I ****ing hate press and hold! Even MGS5 is infected!
Title: Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
Post by: 0rph3u5 on January 27, 2019, 02:47:32 pm
The real problem here is PC-based controls are infinitely more precise than a controller is capable of being, especially with modern mice,

PC controlls are field of targets from a technical standpoint because of this. Controllers are not.

Unless you want to correct miniscule details and test how they snowball over and over again, you have at one time or another focus on a baseline instead of chasing the whole range of possibilties.

Maybe that's just me appricating the economics of it....
Title: Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
Post by: General Battuta on January 27, 2019, 03:03:40 pm
So how's the writing and loré
Title: Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
Post by: The E on January 27, 2019, 03:13:46 pm
So how's the writing and loré

Seems okay? I haven't really delved into the lore writing, but the pre-, in- and post-mission stuff seems fine.
Title: Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
Post by: 0rph3u5 on January 28, 2019, 07:06:33 am
So how's the writing and loré

I didn't really bother with the Lore-pickups in Freeplay other than for their XP-value ... but aside from the Site-makers most of this stuff went straight into the Cortex (your enclopedia) anyway. Site markers give you a little pop-up window to read but you can just look it up in the Cortex later if you just want to get on (and I really wanted to get on, being in motion was felt best about the game after all)

Envoirmental story telling is a thing, but there is a lot context missing in the Demo; in the Freeplay area there was something like a Scar Settlement (including a Dungeon) but it is just there; Similarly near most spawn points there are small camp sites and structures that serve as indicator of the Enemies that might spawn; there are also neutral camps where you get your lore pick-ups but again context is lacking. And there are sometimes NPCs out there too, mostly for the World Events but also not e.g. there are always Sentinels outside the Fort's walls.
The whole world is dotted with what seems to be part of the large singular structure which I guess has implications for the lore but is not explained in the Demo.


As far as the in-mission stuff goes, you basically got 6 scenes with one character for missions, none of which is a proper introduction - he is just your "science guy" -, it got a little more interesting as by the second scene something interesting happens:
Spoiler:
The artifact you were collecting does some reality bending and splits your science guy into 3 versions of himself (cause the artifact is called "Manifold"), each basically one of his main character traits made dominant. The rest of the questline is then to explain what happened and to prevent the trio from dying due to side effects.
It wraps up neatly as a sequence but is kinda "there" in term of an overall narrative that is supposed to be happening; there is no explaination why we are fighting the Dominion in one mission other then "they got the codes we want" or the Scar in the next other than "they kidnapped the people we are looking for".


The Stronghold (think a Destiny-Strike) was actually a bit more lively and explained itself somewhat through the banter of your three mission handlers (Regular Handler, Guide Handler, Mission Giver Handler) and your Freelancer; some it was quite humanistic, e.g. a running thread that the Mission Giver Handler is disgusted/has a phobia related the insectoid Scorpion-enemies, which make up the opposition during the second half of the Stronghold.


The best indication for World Building was actually chatting up the NPCs is Fort Tharsis, but that felt rather inconsequential - esspecially since it basically sitting there listening and at one point during the dialogue making a binary agree-disagree choice, which doesn't seem to change anything but what lines come next.
However the dialogue writing is actually quite humanistic ... despite the NPCs avalible being rather architypical; e.g. there is conversation with your Mechanic you can have about how all the other Lancers (=Javilin Pilots) doesn't appricate the comfort features she can and will install into the Javelins (its all rather mischiefious, instead the usual "complaint about roughing it"). They seem to have put some effort into the in-universe perspectives instead of just sanding down the archetypes until they fit, at least in what was on offer. It's not helped by the animations that are supposed to give each a distinct mannerism not being quite there-there - the clash between the mostly-realistic style and the technical flaws is bit too obvious (Maybe I am just fishing for another "See that why you don't go with Realism as a style"-argument).
Title: Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
Post by: MP-Ryan on January 28, 2019, 07:44:42 am
Personally, I found the Lore/writing "just there."  Didn't get me excited, mostly because so much of the demo is about figuring out how to execute the basic mechanics than I suspect few people paid much attention to the rest.

Really, the way I described it when chatting with my buddies while playing is "shallow." Of the questing types you get, it's all fetch quests pretty much. They work, but the lore really doesn't matter in the slightest. Even the mission you play, while competently done, doesn't generate a lot of interest in the character, but this is likely because the character is someone you should (but don't) know.  There are hints at a rich backstory and some mysteries behind what's going on, but for the purposes of the demo none of it is a compelling motivator.

I don't think the demo is something we can judge the full game by in this respect. It's too much of a slice of the gameplay to really develop anything.

I agree with Orpheus too - the freeplay world is just kind of "there."  While pretty, and detailed, it's pretty much just a pretty version of Borderlands maps - it exists only really to run around and get into fights.

I hope the full game is a complete reversal of this. I will not buy this title in launch until I can confirm two things:

1.  They fix the PC flight and swimming controls (because in god everything wrong with flight goes triple for swimming).

2.  Other players are able to give significant reviews of the writing and lore-building from a cohesive playthrough, or at least a partial one.

I'm cautiously optimistic. I sunk quite a bit if time into Borderlands, this light be a decent successor.

Oh, and I really hope they do something about the menus and social controls; party making for freeplay is a freaking mess too
Title: Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
Post by: The E on January 28, 2019, 09:08:47 am
I can only repeat that the game felt much better to play once I picked up a pad. That's not to excuse the inadequacy of the M+kb controls, just that when played as designed, the game gets much better.
Title: Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
Post by: MP-Ryan on January 28, 2019, 01:00:37 pm
I can only repeat that the game felt much better to play once I picked up a pad. That's not to excuse the inadequacy of the M+kb controls, just that when played as designed, the game gets much better.

This is going to come off as grumpy, because I am grumpy about this, an it's not directed at you personally but at BioWare and the mindset they likely had on this topic:

I'm sure it did.  However, I - and probably most PC-only game players - neither own a controller nor have any desire to learn to use one (I'm abysmally-bad at console games as a result).  If you're going to release a title on PC, you bloody well make sure it works with a mouse and keyboard.  Otherwise, it's as the reddit thread is titled:  PC is an afterthought.  In which case, I'm not paying them a cent.  In its current state, I cannot recommend the game to anyone who does not own a controller.  Hopefully the final build (and maybe the next demo, please please please) will correct this issue.

EDIT:  If it's not fixed in the next demo, I might shell out $5 for a 1 month subscription to Origin access to try a few hours of the final build's gameplay and see if they fixed this bull**** or not.
Title: Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
Post by: Grizzly on January 28, 2019, 03:35:16 pm
Tbh if you're going to spent 5$ on Origin Access basic to see if Anthem is good you could also just spent your time playing, say, Titanfall 2 which is on Origin Access Basic.

Or Duskers, The Sexy Brutale, Shadow Tactics, Tyranny, Burnout Paradise Remastered...

Just don't be that guy that pays money to play a demo.
Title: Re: Anthem Demo - Anyone else?
Post by: MP-Ryan on February 01, 2019, 03:33:01 pm
So, not in time for this weekend's demo, but this is promising news:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AnthemTheGame/comments/am3lvf/pc_controls_update_aiming_and_flight/

Looks like they've made a serious attempt to fix the PC mouse controls.