Hard Light Productions Forums
FreeSpace Releases => Asset Releases => Topic started by: Reythan on July 05, 2022, 02:13:17 pm
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Hey all,
I first wanted to thank this community for all of their hard work.
I just started playing space sims not too long ago and I have been having a lot of fun in this genre, but none have come close to the story and lore told in Freespace which is something that keeps me engaged playing despite how a game looks.
After beating the game in steam I found out about the modding community behind this game and I have been super impressed. I decided I would like to give back by creating a mod that makes the game feel a bit more immersive, provides omni directional movement, and gliding. I am a bit of noob to this modding community so if there is anything blatantly wrong let me know, but I would love any opinions you may have as I continue to put this together.
My goal is to give each flyable ship in FS2 a unique cockpit that is also useable (meaning you can see what's going on around you without the model obstructing your view too much). I also want to give each ship omnidirectional movement and gliding, but also keep the ships balanced/true to the original design. I hope to do the same for FS1 and Blue Planet in the future.
Current ships with Cockpits: GTF Ulysses, and GTF Hercules Mark II
Current ships with thrust/glide mod: GTF Ulysses, GTF Hercules, GTF Hercules Mark II, GTF Ares, GTF Erinyes, GTF Loki, GTF Pegasus, GTF Perseus, GTF Myrmidon, GTB Artemis, GTB Artemis D.H., GTB Medusa, GTB Ursa, GTB Zeus, GTB Boanerges, GVF Seth, GVF Horus, GVF Thoth, GVF Serapis, GVF Tauret, GVB Sekhmet, GVB Bakha, GVF Ptah
The Mod is up on Knossos (Title: FS2 Cockpits, Thrust, and Glide Mod) for you to try it out. If you have any suggestions please let me know and I'll try and implement for the next update which will be regularly until I can get through all the ships. Once I have done enough bug squashing I plan on releasing a guide on how I did this.
https://fsnebula.org/mod/fs2_cp_th_gl
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Superb! I always felt FS needed something like this. :-)
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Thank you!
I’ll be working on the vasudan ships as well so if you see any improvements that can be made let me know.
I also realized I forgot to include reverse afterburners so I will be working on that too.
Edit: Added Vasudan Cockpit, lateral/vertical/reverse thrust for them, and added reverse afterburners for all modded ships
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Could these be made to work with other non-BP campaigns too? If I had my way all campaigns would have these 😎
Would you be able to create a guide that shows how you did it so players and mod creators alike could do likewise? If so I would be extremely greatfull (as would lots of other players too I imagine) 😊👍 (NB a guide to changing the flight mechanics alone would be useful too. I’m thinking these mechanics could be applied to other user made ships, FS1 ships etc.
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I don't see why not since it seems the retail game engine has the functions built in as far as thrusters go.
The bigger question would be if the ships you want to use this on have cockpits built into them. Luckily this community thought ahead and whoever remodeled these ships had the foresight to build in cockpits to look at. I can't speak for other campaigns. I am contemplating CADing up or whatever software is used to make models (just discovered SCP last week so I need to keep reading on these forums to see what architecture is preferred) 4 or 5 cockpit types that have the gauges built into them, but still true to the designs of the ships, to make them more realistic for FS2 as well with BP. Modelers can then take the cockpit model they like and place into whatever fighter/bomber they are making for any ship.
As for a guide on how to do this, I think I can attempt to do so. I come from the world of Assetto Corsa so I am not sure if there are strict rules on guides here. I know moderators take information posted on their forums seriously, and since I am not familiar with FSO modding I don't want to mislead anyone or have it break an install somehow.
It will be awhile if I do (a week and some change) since I will be busy with other things soon.
I didn't realize there was an FS1 port. Looks like I will be playing through that and modding as I go. Thank you for that!
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Awesome, thank you.
Small request - the current cockpit mod on Knossos prevents you from seeing backwards. If you look back - for example, with the 'hat' on a joystick - all you see is the headrest of the pilot's chair. If there is any way around this it would be great. One possible workaround would be to make the rear view transparent so you can see through the ship. Apparently, this is what the helmet used on the F35 does now - the pilot can even look down through the plane!? What the pilot sees is an overlay or similar taken from the cameras. If we can do it now I'm pretty sure we can still do it in 23XX :lol:
In fact, if the whole cockpit was transparent, this would work nicely with head tracking software such as TrakIR5. The degree of transparency could perhaps be something that could set s an option?
Just a thought, and keep up the good work :yes:
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Thanks. I’ll keep this in mind. My alpha version did just that but I had some issues with compatibility across all ships without removing the entire hull. Which then defeated the purpose of free look and took away from immersion.
I’m exploring workarounds by utilizing multiple eyepoints around the ship and binding the views to them. I actually took that idea from the F35 and Apache HUDs on how they connect to image sensors across the air-frame. So we are thinking along the same lines.
The problem I have is that freelook only binds to one eyepoint (maybe I can write a script to bypass this but I’m still exploring the library of functions on SCP to see what is possible, if you know of something let me know) so the views and free look will be different.
The next version I put out will fix this problem since in some ships left right and up view just show you a wall as well.
Any other opinions let me know. My days off will be this. So whatever is priority for the community I will work on.
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Hell of an introduction.
Thanks for your efforts bud. :yes:
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Thank you.
Just updated so that all the ships I modded have reverse afterburners (looks pretty cool since you can see the flame tails). I will be trying to figure out the pilot views today before I have to put this down for a bit.
If you come across anything wrong or have any more suggestions let me know.
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In fact, if the whole cockpit was transparent, this would work nicely with head tracking software such as TrakIR5. The degree of transparency could perhaps be something that could set s an option?
Gave this a shot while I am learning the functions built into scripting and how I can bind views to separate eye points. Coming from the world of racing sims we have access to multiple cameras. It seems things are a bit more rigid here in terms of camera definitions (or views). It could just be my interpretation of functionality so I could very well be wrong. Still learning my way around the wiki and forums here. You guys document very well.
Anyways tell me if this is what you were thinking. It is only implemented on the Perseus right now. If it's something desirable I'll consider expending effort to do it across the range or at least write a script to do it for me.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Y2hOjZmznKTEmp3E9jcZ8xaG3yRgVufs/view?usp=sharing
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Awesome, I’ll check it out tomorrow. But at the risk of sounding stupid, how do I install/use it?
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All you need to do is create a folder in your Knossos/FS2 directory call it whatever you would like and place the VP file inside.
In Knossos go to blue planet complete’s details and you can click on FSO Settings and add the custom flag -mod nameoffolder and you should be good I also like to use -fov 1.0 to widen the field of view
I have not implemented custom gauges and textures yet I am working on that now
The Perseus is the only transparent model
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Hi There.
Gave it a try. looking good so far, but I couldn't get the transparency for the Perseus to work, but I might have done something wrong? How should I install it? I tried putting it into the same folder as the cockpits mod but that didn't work, so I created a separate folder and added another -mod XXXXX folder and added that to the FSO settings, but that didn't work either. Does FSO/knossos recognise having multiple -mod XXXXXs in its command line thingy?
One more thing I would suggest adding to all ships is the 'glide' function as this can be used in many situations instead of lateral / verticle thrust and is a little easier to use for those playing with joysticks (it's only on button press/toggle)
May I make a small request? Could you create a version(s) of these with just the enhanced flight mechanics but not the cockpits? Or show how us how we can do this for ourselves? Cheers :-)
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Went ahead and uploaded the mod to knossos to make it easier to test out.
To add just the mechanics yourself you just need to adjust/make a table that applies the option to each ship for example
#Ship Classes
;======>>TERRANS<<=======
$Name: GTF Ulysses
+nocreate
$Max Velocity: 70.0, 70.0, 70.0
$Rotation time: 3.0, 2.6, 5.0
$Rear Velocity: 70.0
$Forward accel: 2.0
$Forward decel: 1.5
$Slide accel: 2.0
$Slide decel: 1.5
$Glide: YES
$Afterburner: YES
+Aburn Max Vel: 150.0, 150.0, 150.0
+Aburn For accel: 0.7
+Aburn Max Reverse Vel: 150.0
+Aburn Rev accel: 0.7
+Aburn Fuel: 300.0
+Aburn Burn Rate: 50.0
+Aburn Rec Rate: 25.0
#End
Would give the ulysses glide and thrust in all directions. You would then have to do this for every ship. If you do not want to make your own tbm, you could always adjust the .tbm/.tbl files that are used for the game though I typically stay away from that as not to mess up the base game. I plan on making a guide that explains in more detail once I make sure everything works across the board.
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Hi there. Did you post a video showing this in action? I can't find it now. I liked the transparent one better, even better if it also had the 'hole' in the headrest to see backwards clearly.
PS - I can't see it on Knossos unless I overlooked it (there are so many on there now it is easily done.) What did you call it?
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I must have removed the link when I modified the post. Here it is again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7nkhQ_wSBA&t=11s
The mod is called FS2 Cockpits, Thrust, and Glide Mod
I modified the very first post I made to reflect.
This is the link from knossos
https://fsnebula.org/mod/fs2_cp_th_gl
Only ships with cockpits are ulysses and herc 2 all the others have the thrust and glide mod applied
The transparency is a bit trickier to get right since I can't apply it locally, it's applied to the entire texture but I can give it another go and see how it comes out. Just need to settle in on an approach and then begin modeling for the rest of the ships.
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Superb! Having now rewatched the video on a big screen I can say:
Flight mechanics look superb!
The open cockpit looks good but the rear view looks kinda odd. Also it looked like there was a big hole in the floor of the cockpit between the pilots legs.
The transparent one looks better, although I couldn’t see the targeted ship in the viewer thingy.
Are the cockpits compatible with this? https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=95180.0
And the HD hud icons?
If getting the cockpits to look right proves to be too much of a headache then perhaps release the flight mechanics as a separate addon / mod as this is arguably what would have the greatest positive impact on gameplay. Outstanding work BTW, IMO this is exactly what FS should have had back in ‘98 😎👍
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Thank you!
For the wingmen and HD Icons I can make them compatible with those mods.
Getting the cockpits to look right is not a headache just want to take the best approach.
As for the thrust mod I can drop the tbm file here but is there a better place that people would have easier access to it?
I also figured out local transparency that is not difficult. Check out my updated Ulysses and Herc 2 cockpits and let me know if this strikes better the balance of immersion, but practicality of viewing all around you clearly.
https://youtu.be/cboZNFKyb8w
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Re where to place the thrust tables. How about making two separate mods on Knossos. One for the flight mechanics, one for the cockpits, then mod creators can set either or both as dependencies as they see fit? This raises a good point in general, where should files that are not specifically mods ‘live’ where they can be easily found. I’ll ask around.
As for the cockpits - not sure. Getting cockpits to work right in FS has always been a pain I think, probably because retail FS wasn’t set up for it. The BSG themed mods do a good job with a fairly minimalist cockpit, but they have the advantage of only having a few ship classes to model.
https://youtu.be/KFQ8AfibsVc
Metal destroyer’s videos show lots of cockpit mods from a while back. I think they are part of HLP so they might be worth chatting to.
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL871C571E7A6BF290
Just stumbled upon this too. Might prove handy if you haven’t seen it already. https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=71151.0
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Just gave the knossos version a go. Absolutely superb!
Quick question, if the flight mechanics mod has ships in its table(?) that a campaign doesn't, will that cause a problem? I'm guessing not since FS2 doesn't have the BP ships in it and it worked fine - or did you take the BP ships out of the one on knossos? I ask, as I can see myself creating a file that adds EVERY playable ship in every campaign including those that make heavy use of non-retail ships - Exile, Shadow Genesis, Reunion, etc etc. which I can point any campaign to, since I really can't see myself playing any FS campaign without this now :cool:
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Me again :p
Re where the table should live where it could be found easily - create a new post on here: https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?board=265.0
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Sorry for the delayed reply. I have been busy lately.
As to whether or not a ship can be in a table that is not specifically part of a campaign, I am not sure of that. Simple thing to test so I will definitely give it a go later this week. If it just so happens that it works out I will happily share a table that spans quite a number of mods that could be built upon. If it returns the error I think it might, I may have a workaround to still make it possible to build only one table.
I’m glad your enjoying it! Did you get a chance to test out the cockpits for either the Ulysses or Herc 2? Is it more along the lines of what you were originally thinking? If it’s the right approach that gives you the feeling of being in the ship without removing visibility I plan on applying the approach to all FS1 FS2 and BP flyable fighter and bombers including the Vasudans and the SF Mara, designing custom Cockpit models where necessary.
Thank you for the links you provided. They were definitely a big help.
Once I settle in on an approach for just having one large table I will post and share where you mentioned along with a guide for adding to the table as other mods are released or updated.
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Hi there, good to hear from you, and no worries, real life must come first.
A flight mechanics table that covers everything would be awesome, but I was warned by Orph that having too many ships in one table might make FSO crash and cry, so if that happens we would need to split it into several smaller ones - probably one for 'general' FS campaigns that would also include the smattering of non-standard models that those campaigns use; Vassago's Dirge, Uncharted territory etc., then one for BP, one for Shadow Genesis, one for Exile, one for Just Another Day etc. I'm already starting on doing this for Reunion and it seems to be working well so far.
As for the cockpit mods. The Herc 2 looked ok until I looked backwards, then it looked kinda goofy. I think what I was seeing was the engine exhaust grills 'through' the rest of the ship, but it lacked a sense of depth so it is hard to be sure. The Ulysses honestly looked terrible from every viewing angle, due, I suspect, to the relatively lower polly model it uses. This would presumably be a problem for other lower polly ship models too, of which there are still quite a few kicking around in various campaigns.
A minimalist generic cockpit might be a better way to go and definitely much easier. The poster of this video basically ported the Viper cockpit from Diaspora (BSG) which seems to work well enough without being obtrusive. I have asked him how he did it and I'm waiting to hear back (true at the time of writing) https://youtu.be/puU3ugrleWo
TBH, I'm going off cockpit mods and I'm beginning to think that FSO simply isn't set up to do them properly, since they always seem to have major issues.
The updated flight mechanics, however, are an absolute godsend and make a tangible improvement to gameplay. So far I have only really used glide and reverse thrust, but even these have made FS far more enjoyable by eliminating some of the biggest bugbears I had with FS since the first FS came out in '98. Thank you :)
I'm more than happy to keep helping you this so let me know if there is anything I can do :yes:
All the best,
Iain
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Hi there, any updates on this?
I tried using the perseus transparency download with Reunion and it works well - except the myrmidon cockpit was a mess :lol:
Is there a way to separate out the cockpit mod part of it to leave only the flight mechanics? If I use VPView32 I can see the individual folders and files, and I can edit the tables in notepad, but I'm guessing I would need to turn these edited files back into a VP to get the -mod NAME command line thing to work? If so, do you know how to turn things into a VP and what program I would need to do this? Cheers :-)
Again, if there is anything I can do to help let me know :-)
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Hi Yes.
I am working on a mechanics only mod that will allow you to have one single tbm file that will work for any mod even if the ships are not in the mod. I have found a work around by creating a ship at the start of the tbm file read at before the game is booted but without overwriting it if it's already existing. It has worked on quite a few mods, but I get some bugs in others. I know exactly how to squash them, and why its happening but my work on this effort slowed to a crawl for the moment.
When I am back at my workstation in a week I will be picking right up where I left off. I want to be able to create a single growing tbm file that will be compatible with any mod for just the mechanics and separate out the cockpit mod for dedicated releases.
I still plan on making a guide on how to do all of this once I am back.
I took your criticisms and I have updated and AI upscaled the maps and models of the cockpits and tried to make them more true to what they would look like if you were actually inside one without looking too blocky. Still a lot more work to be done, but it’s moving at least in a decent direction. Let me know your thoughts. Here is a current sample https://youtu.be/w_-etHwehJk
Tough to model and texture from my laptop so once I get back I'll be able to clean things up more. Don't mind the missing hud info on the dash I will be fixing that soon.
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Fantastic news, thank you.
Re the Uly’s cockpit: It definitely looked better than before. Which got me thinking, if the ships textures have been AI upscaled, does this mean the world model looks better too? If so, it might be worth releasing that as an asset too 👍
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I had not that about actually applying the upscaling to the pof files visible in the world. I assumed someone already handled official model updates. My focus was mainly just the cockpits on that effort but if it’s something that’s really needed I can do that in the process of making all the cockpits. It would be a simple step to add. I can post some before and after pictures later and if it’s something worth pursuing I could tack it on the back end of my modding todos.
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That’s a good idea. I was thinking of doing the AI upscalling thing myself once I figure out how. I was mainly thinking of the older ship models that haven’t been updated in a while, such as the Uly, Lucifer, Argo etc as a stop-gap until true high-polly PBR versions get made. May I ask what AI software you used, how you did it etc.? PS - I have been using the file you shard before as a base for the reunion upgrade. Combining six-degrees of freedom movement with Fury AI creates some spectacular results - the shivans are almost moving like they do in Bem C (only without the overclocked shields that make a basilisk as hard to kill as a seraphim and a seraphim about as resilient as a fenris :lol:
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Hi there, just a nudge. How are you getting on with this? The flight mechanics section in particular?
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I fly back home next week, my tour got extended by almost two months so I'll finally be able to get back to this and wrap up the flight mechanics mod and make it a growing document that you can add to for all of your mods.
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Welcome back dude. I wondered why you went dark, now we know 👍 how was it?
FYI there have been some developments since we last spoke. I have been busy creating similar flight mechanics ship tables, (I’ll send them over) and Herkie is about to create one that combines the ships from FS1, FS2 and Reunion for me.
There is also a guy called Serial Mascot who is creating something similar with fully rendered cockpits and GXYZ flight mechanics.
https://youtube.com/channel/UCd3am0mJwO4XRXIoQbNu71w
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Hi dude, any updates on this? I have been trying to replicate this to create versions for the other campaigns - Exile, Reunion, FSPort, ST:R etc etc.
I have had mixed results - probably because I don't really know what I'm doing. Do you think you could give me a hand, since you seem to know what you are doing better than I?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
All the best,
Iain.
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Sorry about the super late reply. My work is off grid or out at sea so I haven't been available. I have been working on the models on my down time though.
I am going one ship at a time and am creating custom cockpit interiors and updating exterior textures with upscaling and touch ups. Since texture painting takes forever I'm just using colors to make my texture maps to get through all the modeling. Once I get through all of the modeling for the terran fighters I'll release a v0 mod and I'll slowly update it as I complete the bombers and vasudans. I as well am going in and updating the ship tables to allow for thrust in all directions and gliding. Once I complete the ships I'll go back and make the custom texture maps for the interiors.
Should have the fighters done in a month or so. For now here is a video of where I am at. https://youtu.be/T5AYG7See08
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As for the ship table to add thrust in all directions and glide if it helps I'll attach a document here that has every ship adjusted for FS2.
To use it just go to knossos>FS2 and create a folder (Call it whatever you like). In my case the file path is like so D:\Games\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\Freespace 2\Knossos\FS2
Inside that folder create another folder titled data.
Inside of data create another folder titled tables
Inside of tables copy and paste the document attached in there.
To use it in FSOs FS2 open up knossos and click the details tab of the mod in this case Freespace upgrade media VPs
click on options
then click on FSO settings
then in custom flags box go all the way to the end and add -mod Enter name of folder you made with table here (in my case -mod ThrustMod)
Then in game you need to bind the newly added controls
To do this with other mods you will need to follow a similar process for the ships contained within that mod
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step-by-step guide to adding it to different campaigns and how to tweak the flight parameters can be found here: https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=98671.0
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Hi there, I just had a peak at the upscaled Ulysses in the F3 ship lab thingy. It’s certainly an improvement over the standard version. May I ask how you did it and how long it took?
Can I put in a request for what to upscale next? If so, then the Lucifer needs a bit of TLC. I know oddgrim is creating a new high polly version but that may be a while off and an upscaled Lucy might be just the thing as a stop-gap 👍