Author Topic: Epic Tev vs. UEF discussion from IRC [SPOILERS]  (Read 20198 times)

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Re: Epic Tev vs. UEF discussion from IRC [SPOILERS]
Staying OT and completely in-character:

If Tevs sucked, they wouldn't be winning. :P

I bet the UEF are thinking along this line:



Any hint on the big project they're working on?
An neverending battle shall begin (BITEFIGHT.org): http://s8.bitefight.org/c.php?uid=128547

 
Re: Epic Tev vs. UEF discussion from IRC [SPOILERS]
Not until WiH2, most likely.
17:37:02   Quanto: I want to have sexual intercourse with every space elf in existence
17:37:11   SpardaSon21: even the males?
17:37:22   Quanto: its not gay if its an elf

[21:51] <@Droid803> I now realize
[21:51] <@Droid803> this will be SLIIIIIGHTLY awkward
[21:51] <@Droid803> as this rich psychic girl will now be tsundere for a loli.
[21:51] <@Droid803> OH WELLL.

See what you're missing in #WoD and #Fsquest?

[07:57:32] <Caiaphas> inspired by HerraTohtori i built a supermaneuverable plane in ksp
[07:57:43] <Caiaphas> i just killed my pilots with a high-g maneuver
[07:58:19] <Caiaphas> apparently people can't take 20 gees for 5 continuous seconds
[08:00:11] <Caiaphas> the plane however performed admirably, and only crashed because it no longer had any guidance systems

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Epic Tev vs. UEF discussion from IRC [SPOILERS]
Not until WiH2, most likely.

There are some hints in R1. I wish I could say more.

 

Offline FireSpawn

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Re: Epic Tev vs. UEF discussion from IRC [SPOILERS]
The main reason I'm with the UEF is because the GTVA instigated hostilities the moment they reached Sol. Even after all the **** with the Shivans and the Vishnans and the parallel universe of doom.
No attempt at diplomacy. No knowledge of who or what they are dealing with, aside from seriously outdated information and/or their own theories. If it wasn't for that fact, I'd be able to sympathise with the Tev's reasons, but they instigated a war with a technically unknown group, with the idea to subjugate or eradicate. No middle ground. IMO this is a 'stupid-as-F**K' thing to do. If they had at least attempted a half arsed go at diplomacy then i wouldn't care and would follow orders and say 'oh, that's pretty' everytime something important blows up.
If you hit it and it bleeds, you can kill it. If you hit it and it doesn't bleed...You are obviously not hitting hard enough.

Greatest Pirate in all the Beach System.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

 

Offline Ravenholme

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Re: Epic Tev vs. UEF discussion from IRC [SPOILERS]
The main reason I'm with the UEF is because the GTVA instigated hostilities the moment they reached Sol. Even after all the **** with the Shivans and the Vishnans and the parallel universe of doom.
No attempt at diplomacy. No knowledge of who or what they are dealing with, aside from seriously outdated information and/or their own theories. If it wasn't for that fact, I'd be able to sympathise with the Tev's reasons, but they instigated a war with a technically unknown group, with the idea to subjugate or eradicate. No middle ground. IMO this is a 'stupid-as-F**K' thing to do. If they had at least attempted a half arsed go at diplomacy then i wouldn't care and would follow orders and say 'oh, that's pretty' everytime something important blows up.

You missed a part of the story - they did know what they were up against, they had had probes in sol for weeks before the 13th battlegroup transitted. It's what caused them to formulate the idea to attack, the knowledge of what Buntu and the Feds were. Though, it was originally supposed to be 'distribute the 13th throughout sol in strategic locations and demand the surrender of the UEF'. Read 'The Reunion' on the WiH moddb, it explains what was supposed to happen and what went wrong
Full Auto - I've got a bullet here with your name on it, and I'm going to keep firing until I find out which one it is.

<The_E>   Several sex-based solutions come to mind
<The_E>   Errr
<The_E>   *sexp

 

Offline Qent

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Re: Epic Tev vs. UEF discussion from IRC [SPOILERS]
It's also in the techroom database. BTW, FreeSpace apparently has problems rendering apostrophes.

 

Offline Mongoose

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Re: Epic Tev vs. UEF discussion from IRC [SPOILERS]
Yeah, some of the intelligence entries from the website seemed to have formatting issues in-game.

 

Offline noodle

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Re: Epic Tev vs. UEF discussion from IRC [SPOILERS]
The whole concept of the GTVA as the aggressors is, frankly, retarded. I understand where the writers are coming from, I even agree with some points like the devastating encounters with the Shivans would have a profound impact on the psyche of the Alliance and would harden them. But the idea that they would wage a war on a faction that was not threatening them is absurd in the extreme, especially a war on ****ing Earth, which is practically deified by Galactic Terrans (even if its status as a lost promised land has diminished of late). The fact that a huge chunk of the battlegroup flat-out mutinied at the end of AoA speaks volumes.

And from a strategic point of view it's complete idiocy. If they are so paranoid about the Shivans returning why would they be bleeding away their military strength in a needless war? Yes, yes, I know the infrastructure in Sol is extensive, you could argue that they figure any losses they incur capturing that infrastructure would be easily made up for by what it could produce for them. But the fact is that they can have access to all those shipyards and things without losing a single fighter. The UEF wasn't hostile to them, and is well aware of the threat the Shivans pose (I've always been surprised Sol got so little mention and played virtually no role in FS1, outside of the finale). They would certainly be willing to join with the GTVA in a military alliance, and since the only threat outside of pirates that the UEF would face would come from outside the system, and if allied with the GTVA the only external threat would be the Shivans, the GTVA would have the aid of the entire UEF military machine essentially (though the UEF would likely insist on keeping a few fleets permanently stationed in Sol).

As for being paranoid that Ubuntu will spread through the GTVA, that would never happen. The fact that it's childish "let's all be friends and get along happy happy joy joy" philosophy gained such a following even just in an isolated Sol is highly suspect to begin with.

The whole conflict is just too contrived. Maybe that's the point, after all the story isn't finished yet, but I find that GTVA vs Sol stories only work when the Earth forces are the aggressor.

Oh, and I still hate the horrible 'cosmic balance' stuff you're doing with the Shivans and the Vishans.

 

Offline Shivan Hunter

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Re: Epic Tev vs. UEF discussion from IRC [SPOILERS]
If you tried reading some of the material in the Tech Room, there's a great explanation of the GTVA's decision and original plan for the war. If you still don't get it I'm sure the BP team can help explain.

Battuta has heavily implied, and there is significant evidence to the fact that, the 'cosmic balance' stuff is... well, not what it seems. Everything in BP can be explained logically as a point of fact, not mysticism, and neither the Vishnans or the Shivans should be trusted so readily.

[EDIT] w.r.t your concerns about wasting military resources- again, if you'd read the tech room entries, you'd know that the GTVA didn't plan on a war (at least not a drawn-out war of attrition with heavy losses), they intended to take up positions around Earth and other population centers and initiate a takeover with as little conflict as possible. The delay while they were in the alternate universe getting their catharsis, and the subsequent mutiny of a large portion of the battle group that caused, rendered this impossible.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2010, 04:17:31 pm by Shivan Hunter »

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Epic Tev vs. UEF discussion from IRC [SPOILERS]
The whole concept of the GTVA as the aggressors is, frankly, retarded. I understand where the writers are coming from, I even agree with some points like the devastating encounters with the Shivans would have a profound impact on the psyche of the Alliance and would harden them. But the idea that they would wage a war on a faction that was not threatening them is absurd in the extreme, especially a war on ****ing Earth, which is practically deified by Galactic Terrans (even if its status as a lost promised land has diminished of late).

Ah, yes, in retrospect it does seem retarded that if your best social scientists (this in a time when social science has become vastly more rigorous and accurate) told you that the continued integrity of your government depended on securing Earth and then you learned that Earth had been taken over by a bunch of pacifist hippies who would philosophize away your military and were stupid enough to NOT have turned Sol into a massive anti-Shivan war machine you would declare war on these idiots since the alternative was basically surrendering to them and watching your population flee into their arms and

hang on a second

that doesn't seem retarded at all.

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The fact that a huge chunk of the battlegroup flat-out mutinied at the end of AoA speaks volumes.

The fact that they wouldn't have if they hadn't gone through what they did speaks bigger volumes.  :)

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And from a strategic point of view it's complete idiocy. If they are so paranoid about the Shivans returning why would they be bleeding away their military strength in a needless war? Yes, yes, I know the infrastructure in Sol is extensive, you could argue that they figure any losses they incur capturing that infrastructure would be easily made up for by what it could produce for them.

Indeed, the latter statement is correct. The GTVA has in fact kept most of its mainline forces on Shivan alert; the UEF war is - while basically using as many forces as they can fit and support in Sol - not eating up THAT much of their overall strength.

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But the fact is that they can have access to all those shipyards and things without losing a single fighter. The UEF wasn't hostile to them, and is well aware of the threat the Shivans pose (I've always been surprised Sol got so little mention and played virtually no role in FS1, outside of the finale). They would certainly be willing to join with the GTVA in a military alliance, and since the only threat outside of pirates that the UEF would face would come from outside the system, and if allied with the GTVA the only external threat would be the Shivans, the GTVA would have the aid of the entire UEF military machine essentially (though the UEF would likely insist on keeping a few fleets permanently stationed in Sol).

And then the GTVA government would collapse in an enormous civil war as mankind began a massive immigration (rout, some might say) to Sol and the economies of both GTVA and UEF collapsed under the strain. How's that for undermining defense against the Shivan?

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As for being paranoid that Ubuntu will spread through the GTVA, that would never happen. The fact that it's childish "let's all be friends and get along happy happy joy joy" philosophy gained such a following even just in an isolated Sol is highly suspect to begin with.

You're right. Never in history has a collectivist, alternative philosophy taken route in a discontented, suffering populace and led to massive socioeconomic change

wait

omg what happened to china what's up with all these red things where's the han dynasty gone D: D: D:

Your superficial understanding of Ubuntu betrays great fear. A more accurate mockery of their tenets would be 'let's all be friends and get along in a freakishly effective socially engineered unit that spews out scientific and industrial innovations at a godawful rate and might, if convinced to go to war, be the most ****ing devastating sociopolitical unit of all time but in the meantime is busy making all its citizens fat, rich and very happy'.

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The whole conflict is just too contrived. Maybe that's the point, after all the story isn't finished yet, but I find that GTVA vs Sol stories only work when the Earth forces are the aggressor.

I think your commentary on the Cuban Missile Crisis probably would've been similar. 'If they just team up they could make so much MONEY and establish the WORKER'S PARADISE it's so contrived that these two groups are separated by mere ideological and intellectual differences when the threat of NUCLEAR WEAPONS IS OUT THERE'

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Oh, and I still hate the horrible 'cosmic balance' stuff you're doing with the Shivans and the Vishans.

Pay more attention.

Troll harder or read the techroom before trolling.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2010, 04:16:04 pm by General Battuta »

 

Offline Quanto

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Re: Epic Tev vs. UEF discussion from IRC [SPOILERS]
I am of the opinion, that Noodle, is full of **** and dicks.

His value as a poster, and human being, is lower than that of a slime mold.
00:41:58 <DarthGeek>: I might do it, I need to build a reputation of someone who doesn't suffer fools
(DarthGeek on: "Relentless")

 

Offline Snail

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Re: Epic Tev vs. UEF discussion from IRC [SPOILERS]
Guys, everyone is entitled to speak their mind.


So lol gtfo noodle, srslah




<_<

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Epic Tev vs. UEF discussion from IRC [SPOILERS]
I am of the opinion, that Noodle, is full of **** and dicks.

His value as a poster, and human being, is lower than that of a slime mold.

I think that may be going a bit far, but on the other hand, when you dismiss thousands of words of carefully honed worldbuilding penned by psychologists and political scientists as 'retarded' and 'contrived', you're reaping a pretty bad harvest.  :rolleyes: BP's setting isn't above reproach, but I daresay it's a level above that of most space opera's in terms of plausibility.

And hey, in 1945 the USA was the good guys; in 1965 we were...not so black and white. Governments change and change fast.

 

Offline Snail

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Re: Epic Tev vs. UEF discussion from IRC [SPOILERS]
And hey, in 1945 the USA was the good guys; in 1965 we were...not so black and white. Governments change and change fast.
Eh, it's never really "black and white".

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Epic Tev vs. UEF discussion from IRC [SPOILERS]
And hey, in 1945 the USA was the good guys; in 1965 we were...not so black and white. Governments change and change fast.
Eh, it's never really "black and white".

More chiaroscuro?

Did I spell that right?

 

Offline -Norbert-

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Re: Epic Tev vs. UEF discussion from IRC [SPOILERS]
Just ignore that guy. He tried to troll the Wings of Dawn forum too.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Epic Tev vs. UEF discussion from IRC [SPOILERS]
Just ignore that guy. He tried to troll the Wings of Dawn forum too.

He actually seems like a pretty smart dude, but his philosophy seems to be 'Find something that somebody spent months of painstaking effort on for no reason except to allow me to enjoy it, then say it sucks, then drive off trollolololulating.'

 

Offline Shivan Hunter

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Re: Epic Tev vs. UEF discussion from IRC [SPOILERS]
In fact, going back through his posting history, nearly every single post of his contains some (usually poorly rationalized) h8. He either needs to stop trolling or learn some basic tact.

[EDIT] ninja'd by Battuta

 

Offline noodle

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Re: Epic Tev vs. UEF discussion from IRC [SPOILERS]
Just ignore that guy. He tried to troll the Wings of Dawn forum too.

He actually seems like a pretty smart dude, but his philosophy seems to be 'Find something that somebody spent months of painstaking effort on for no reason except to allow me to enjoy it, then say it sucks, then drive off trollolololulating.'

All I'm doing is pointing out things that are stupid as stupid. I'm not trolling, you're the ones who are getting massively butthurt and defensive. I have read the tech room, all of it, and it's still ****ing stupid. One of the great things about the Shivans is that you never know anything about them other than that they (apparently) want you dead. That's how aliens should be, completely alien. In some ways I'm glad FS3 was never made, because it would have likely revealed what the Shivans were up to and it would have been lame and disappointing.

And General Battuta, you really can't compare Ubuntu to Chinese Communism, which mainly gained power through a. the mass killing of everyone who disagreed, and b. exploiting the fact that the Chinese are traditionally mindless sheep who do what they're told (thanks Confucius).

EDIT: This forum censoring is inane as hell. If you're offended by words something is seriously wrong with you.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Epic Tev vs. UEF discussion from IRC [SPOILERS]
Just ignore that guy. He tried to troll the Wings of Dawn forum too.

He actually seems like a pretty smart dude, but his philosophy seems to be 'Find something that somebody spent months of painstaking effort on for no reason except to allow me to enjoy it, then say it sucks, then drive off trollolololulating.'

All I'm doing is pointing out things that are stupid as stupid.

more like TROLLING amirite

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I'm not trolling, you're the ones who are getting massively butthurt and defensive.

Pff by this point our butts would have to be like solid armor plate. We've had this discussion and corrected so many people so many times.

Our backstory is basically one enormous hunk of badass consistency and plausibility by this point. It would take a combination of Noam Chomsky and Colin Powell formed into some kind of Voltron-esque hybrid to effectively criticize it.

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I have read the tech room, all of it, and I'm still ****ing stupid. Also I suffer rectal prolapse :( :( :(

FIXED

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One of the great things about the Shivans is that you never know anything about them other than that they (apparently) want you dead. That's how aliens should be, completely alien. In some ways I'm glad FS3 was never made, because it would have likely revealed what the Shivans were up to and it would have been lame and disappointing.

You still don't know anything about them. Way to take the Vishnans on their word, man. You are just like so totally ACCEPTING omigod

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And General Battuta, you really can't compare Ubuntu to Chinese Communism, which mainly gained power through a. the mass killing of everyone who disagreed, and b. exploiting the fact that the Chinese are traditionally mindless sheep who do what they're told (thanks Confucius).

gb2/m/

ubuntu gained power through the mass enrichening of everyone who disagreed and exploiting the fact that people are traditionally mindless sheep who enjoy eating and having job security

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EDIT: This forum censoring is inane as hell. If you're offended by words something is seriously wrong with you.

lololololololol turn off your obscenity filter
« Last Edit: October 08, 2010, 06:17:58 pm by General Battuta »