Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: colecampbell666 on June 19, 2007, 05:55:09 pm
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Go into FRED and place a Seraphim and an Azrael. The Seraphim is bigger and it is a bomber, yet the Azrael's tech-room desc. says that it houses hundreds of Shivans. Just thought that it was kind of funny :D
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doesnt say how it houses them. maybe they just stack up 1 on top of the other
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Still, a bomber doesn't need more than three Shivans. and Shivans are huge, compared to humans/Vasudans. There is no possible way of housing 100's of Shivans on an Azrael, short of demolecularizing them, shrinking them, etc.
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i was being funny. or trying to, at least.
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The FS2 tech room says the Azrael houses "many" Shivans, does the FS1 tech room say hundreds?
Still, I question Command's knowledge of shivan ships.
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i question Command's knowledge period.
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Look at it this way: you can't put anything in the front extending pylons on the Seraphim because of ordinances. You can't put anything on half of the remaining ship because of the generator that powers the guns, turrets, sheilds, and systems. And you can't put any shivans on those random little pointy things because those are all to small. While the Azreal has no shields, no ordinances, only one more turret but no primaries, and is less massive (requires a smaller generator and less power to accelerate).
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While the Azreal has no shields
Yet the Elysium and the Azrael have shield meshes...
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And also the Elysium's and the Isis' transport capacity is a big enigma... they're too small to be transports...
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If we a assume that the Hermes can carry 20 or so humans (which a lot of people seem to accept), then it's no leap of faith to agree that the Elysium can be a transport. The Hermes is one of the smallest ships in the game.
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Well they are large enought to shuttle people around. Which is just what they're supposed to do. If you wan't to move large masses of people, the what is stopping you to stuff them in a crago container?
Isis and Elysium move handfuls of people or equipment at short distances. No need to be big and bulky...
EDIT:
Oh, and if you wan't to compare Seraphim and Azrael... Then why not compare modern day main battle tanks and APC's? Tanks are usually bigger since APC needs to be just big enought so it can carry a squad with equipment. No room for laughing (literally). Bigger also means slower, which also might not be desireable.
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Well they are large enought to shuttle people around. Which is just what they're supposed to do. If you wan't to move large masses of people, the what is stopping you to stuff them in a crago container?
Life support systems! :P
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I should have know some smart ass tries to be funny with that... :doubt:
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I should have know some smart ass tries to be funny with that... :doubt:
Hey! You asked the question, I merely answered it! :drevil:
:lol:
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Well if you're dumb enought not to invest on a oxygen tank and a heater, then you deserve to lose your profits from human trade.
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Well they are large enought to shuttle people around. Which is just what they're supposed to do. If you wan't to move large masses of people, the what is stopping you to stuff them in a crago container?
Isis and Elysium move handfuls of people or equipment at short distances. No need to be big and bulky...
EDIT:
Oh, and if you wan't to compare Seraphim and Azrael... Then why not compare modern day main battle tanks and APC's? Tanks are usually bigger since APC needs to be just big enought so it can carry a squad with equipment. No room for laughing (literally). Bigger also means slower, which also might not be desireable.
Yes, but the APC doesn't carry that many more people.
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Hey guys, game limitations at the time FS1 was created mean no superbig transports in game especially in missions like The Aftermath with a dozen of them floating around on the same screen.
lolkthxbai
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In the very famous Freespace 1 Cutscene where the soldiers find out how the Shivans really look, we know that this scene plays on an Azrael Transport (afaik), the Transport was very big, i think there is enough space for a few shivans.
In the final Bosch Monolog (FS2) we see an Azrael again, which is only a bit smaller than a Rakshasa.
But i think the relation of ship sizes to "how many peoples on it" is generally unrealistic, i mean, a Hecate has a crew of 10000 :nervous:
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it's a scaling thing, like nuclear1 said, the engine can handle large volumes of huge ships, and they just take up to much damn space. when its a comprimise between realism and playability, realism will almost always lose. think about it. would you play a game that laged like mad, and was nearly unplayable, but looked realistic?
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Well they are large enought to shuttle people around. Which is just what they're supposed to do. If you wan't to move large masses of people, the what is stopping you to stuff them in a crago container?
Isis and Elysium move handfuls of people or equipment at short distances. No need to be big and bulky...
EDIT:
Oh, and if you wan't to compare Seraphim and Azrael... Then why not compare modern day main battle tanks and APC's? Tanks are usually bigger since APC needs to be just big enought so it can carry a squad with equipment. No room for laughing (literally). Bigger also means slower, which also might not be desireable.
Yes, but the APC doesn't carry that many more people.
IIRC tanks have a crew of three or four, while APCs varies on the model. Some are just straight APCs with no guns, so they just need a driver. Some have guns, so they need a gunner. Then there are IFVs. Usually to make it worthwhile APCs should carry at least five troops. I thought China had a main battle tank that could transport infantry, but I forget.
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Well they are large enought to shuttle people around. Which is just what they're supposed to do. If you wan't to move large masses of people, the what is stopping you to stuff them in a crago container?
Isis and Elysium move handfuls of people or equipment at short distances. No need to be big and bulky...
EDIT:
Oh, and if you wan't to compare Seraphim and Azrael... Then why not compare modern day main battle tanks and APC's? Tanks are usually bigger since APC needs to be just big enought so it can carry a squad with equipment. No room for laughing (literally). Bigger also means slower, which also might not be desireable.
Yes, but the APC doesn't carry that many more people.
IIRC tanks have a crew of three or four, while APCs varies on the model. Some are just straight APCs with no guns, so they just need a driver. Some have guns, so they need a gunner. Then there are IFVs. Usually to make it worthwhile APCs should carry at least five troops. I thought China had a main battle tank that could transport infantry, but I forget.
Western modern MBTs generally have 4 crew members: Commander, Gunner, Loader and Driver. For tanks with autoloader (most tanks of Soviet lineage), the Loader is dropped for 3 crew members only. Most Western tank crews like having 4 guys, since the loader can help with the radio and general maintenance.
APCs like the M113 (APC varient) have only 2 crew members, Driver and Commander. The Commander also operates the MG mount at the top of the vehicle himself. For IFVs like the BMP series and Bradley, there are 3 crew members, Driver, Commander and Gunner.
In terms of carrying capacity, the M113 APC (not those with more fanciful turrets like the Israeli OWS or the CIS 40/50 turrets) can carry 11 fully equipped soldiers. IFVs generally carry far fewer soldiers, usually 6-7.
The only tank that I know of that can transport soldiers is the Israeli Merkava. Incidentally, the Israelis also converted some captured T55s into (heavily armoured) APCs.
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Well Finish army Nasu ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisu_Nasu ) is a cute little thing with lots space.
Except the NA-111GT (signal station version). It's an early YVI 2 system station and I don't know how they made it so cramped, especially the control stations. A larger man is sure to pull half a dozen cables off when making his way to the computer...
But the normal version carries up to 17 angry korrrpisoturi reasonably comfortably over the greatest of snowy wastes...
And it's small and unimpressive, just like Isis and Elysium.
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Well Finish army Nasu ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisu_Nasu ) is a cute little thing with lots space.
Except the NA-111GT (signal station version). It's an early YVI 2 system station and I don't know how they made it so cramped, especially the control stations. A larger man is sure to pull half a dozen cables off when making his way to the computer...
But the normal version carries up to 17 angry korrrpisoturi reasonably comfortably over the greatest of snowy wastes...
And it's small and unimpressive, just like Isis and Elysium.
Thats not an APC. It's barely even armoured, having a Kevlar lining doesn't count as armour. It is a transport, not an APC and it is definitely not designed to be on the front like where a M203 will just make a mess out of it. If we want to talk about unarmoured transports, a 2.5/3/5 tonne truck might be more appropriate.
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Aren't we the illiterate one. Where exactly did I say it was APC?
So its barely armoured, small, carries single turret which only purpose seems to be to attract even more agro on the shooter and is a transport. How would you define Elysium?
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Aren't we the illiterate one. Where exactly did I say it was APC?
So its barely armoured, small, carries single turret which only purpose seems to be to attract even more agro on the shooter and is a transport. How would you define Elysium?
No need to be sarcastic.
My original post was a response to thesizzler's post on crew sizes. Since your earlier post came after mine and it didn't quote posts before mine, I made the assumption that your post on the Sisu Nasu was in relation to the talk on APCs. Since I made the mistake in assuming so, I accept that to be my fault.
Elysium is a transport, that is all that is said in the game. Whether it is a transport meant for operations in safe areas like trucks or armoured for front-line use, we don't know.
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Oh yes we do.
The GTT Elysium class of transports has been in service for over 40 years. Its mission hasn't changed from the time of the Great War - to transport civilian and military personnel from one star system to another. The Elysium is very poorly armed, with a single Subach HL-7 cannon, and also suffers from thin armor plating. Only desperate circumstances find Elysiums anywhere near the front lines. Assaults and dangerous transport missions handled almost exclusively by the much tougher GTT Argo class.
When in doubt, always look at the tables first. :) Now the situation in FS1 might be different as I don't have FS1 installed at the moment.
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Well Finish army Nasu ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisu_Nasu ) is a cute little thing with lots space.
Except the NA-111GT (signal station version). It's an early YVI 2 system station and I don't know how they made it so cramped, especially the control stations. A larger man is sure to pull half a dozen cables off when making his way to the computer...
But the normal version carries up to 17 angry korrrpisoturi reasonably comfortably over the greatest of snowy wastes...
And it's small and unimpressive, just like Isis and Elysium.
Just a small note its FINNISH, not Finish.
What do you think we are, Finished? :doubt:
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Well, hundred shivans would have to fight for that little toilet onboard that Azarel lol.
Maybe that heard about a shrinking device before...
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your post invited this comment.
how do we even know that shivans use toilets?
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Well, if you actually put a scale human beside a scale fs2 cruiser. You find out that the fs ships are pretty ****ing big, and can hold a lot of people.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Battlefield/FenrisWIP7.jpg)
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Oh yes we do.
The GTT Elysium class of transports has been in service for over 40 years. Its mission hasn't changed from the time of the Great War - to transport civilian and military personnel from one star system to another. The Elysium is very poorly armed, with a single Subach HL-7 cannon, and also suffers from thin armor plating. Only desperate circumstances find Elysiums anywhere near the front lines. Assaults and dangerous transport missions handled almost exclusively by the much tougher GTT Argo class.
When in doubt, always look at the tables first. :) Now the situation in FS1 might be different as I don't have FS1 installed at the moment.
heres the fs1 tech description:
Since the start of space colonization, this standard transport has been used by everyone, both civilian and military. While it has undergone minor changes time and again, it remains a simple design: A vehicle meant to transport personnel from one place to another.
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your post invited this comment.
how do we even know that shivans use toilets?
Let's use some basic logic here. Shivans don't use gravity, there flying all over the place in an azrael in no gravity. Flying all over the azrael doing acrobatics and stuff like birds. So i deduce that shivans are like birds; they **** everywhere.
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If they **** everywhere, the boarding party on the FS1 cutscene would of said, "Pew, this place stinks."
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Apparently the smell of shivan dung isn't that much different from the smell of terran marine dung.
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If they **** everywhere, the boarding party on the FS1 cutscene would of said, "Pew, this place stinks."
Good point lol
Since the start of space colonization, this standard transport has been used by everyone, both civilian and military. While it has undergone minor changes time and again, it remains a simple design: A vehicle meant to transport personnel from one place to another.
Is this the tech description of the Azarel or an Elysium?
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Elysium obviously.
Also people, bear in mind that many does not equal thousands/hundreds. It could have 10 or 20 shivans and it would still be many.
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Still, a bomber shouldn't be bigger. Look at a support ship. They are the size of a bomber and hold dozens of bombs. The Seraphim is way too big for the bomb load that it carries.
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Nope. Support ships are too small for the bomb load they carry.
And I prefer bombers to be big and menacing. Nephilim and Seraphim just scream "death and destruction at a large scale" at you. On the other hand a pitiful little ****e like Nahema shouldn't have the firepower to take on nothing more than a cruiser...
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Nope. Support ships are too small for the bomb load they carry.
And I prefer bombers to be big and menacing. Nephilim and Seraphim just scream "death and destruction at a large scale" at you. On the other hand a pitiful little ****e like Nahema shouldn't have the firepower to take on nothing more than a cruiser...
The Nahema has the same payload as the Artemis (I haven't checked the tables so don't rape me or anything).
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Was that just a boring little ramble on your part, or are you having a point of some sort? :nervous:
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So it has a smaller payload. Sue me.
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:wtf:
What has smaller payload? And does that matter in which way?
I'll need to start from the beginning. I expressed my dislike on Nahema. Because it's a small and cute(ish, for a Shivan). Yet it still carries enough bombs to be a threat to destroyers. It looks like a heavy fighter, flies like a heavy fighter and is shot down easily like a (shivan) heavy fighter. Hence it should be a heavy fighter.
You responded by saying it has the same payload as Artemis. Which is moderately over sufficient for Artemis (which I think should have only two secondary slots). You then elaborate by saying something (Artemis?) has a smaller payload than... what?
This a makes a no sense at all. :hopping:
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I corrected myself.
The Nahema has a smaller payload than the Artemis. Okay?
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I corrected myself.
The Nahema has a smaller payload than the Artemis. Okay?
Ah, the Nehema. Such mediocrity, bundled up in something so small.