Author Topic: Bosch as Alpha 1 in ST:R  (Read 11679 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline blowfish

  • 211
  • Join the cult of KILL MY ROUTER!!!!!!!!!!1
Didn't the Orff go boom in ST?
* Colonol Dekker can't remember that far back. as he hasn't played it since before the great fall.

IIRC it did.  Died under a swarm of Lokis :P

 

Offline Mongoose

  • Rikki-Tikki-Tavi
  • Global Moderator
  • 212
  • This brain for rent.
    • Minecraft
    • Steam
    • Something
It either does or doesn't depending on how that mission plays out.  I think I managed to keep it nice and healthy last time I played through the Port.  There isn't really any acknowledgment of its destruction if it does go up, so I feel like it's ideally supposed to survive.  Plus, I don't really want the thing to die. :p

 

Offline Mars

  • I have no originality
  • 211
  • Attempting unreasonable levels of reasonable
The only ship smaller than a destroyer that the player has a chance to get attached to.

 

Offline Mongoose

  • Rikki-Tikki-Tavi
  • Global Moderator
  • 212
  • This brain for rent.
    • Minecraft
    • Steam
    • Something
I always had a thing for the PVC Mecross in FS1.  You have to haul its ass out of the fire in Exodus, then it delivers a helping hand in return in Last Hope.

 

Offline Androgeos Exeunt

  • Captain Oblivious
  • 212
  • Prevents attraction.
    • Wordpress.com Blog
I liked the Orff, yeah.

However, if you count the time between ST and FS2, isn't Bosch a bit too...young to be given command of a warship? In FS2, he looks like he's only about forty to fifty.
My blog

Quote: Tuesday, 3 October 2023 0133 UTC +8, #general
MP-Ryan
Oh you still believe in fairy tales like Santa, the Easter Bunny, and free market competition principles?

 

Offline Galemp

  • Actual father of Samus
  • Moderator
  • 212
  • Ask me about GORT!
    • Steam
    • User page on the FreeSpace Wiki
However, if you count the time between ST and FS2, isn't Bosch a bit too...young to be given command of a warship? In FS2, he looks like he's only about forty to fifty.

You underestimate the future of the age-defying cosmetics industry.
"Anyone can do any amount of work, provided it isn't the work he's supposed to be doing at that moment." -- Robert Benchley

Members I've personally met: RedStreblo, Goober5000, Sandwich, Splinter, Su-tehp, Hippo, CP5670, Terran Emperor, Karajorma, Dekker, McCall, Admiral Wolf, mxlm, RedSniper, Stealth, Black Wolf...

 

Offline Androgeos Exeunt

  • Captain Oblivious
  • 212
  • Prevents attraction.
    • Wordpress.com Blog
You underestimate the future of the age-defying cosmetics industry.

:eek:

I didn't underestimate; I just forgot. :D
My blog

Quote: Tuesday, 3 October 2023 0133 UTC +8, #general
MP-Ryan
Oh you still believe in fairy tales like Santa, the Easter Bunny, and free market competition principles?

 

Offline Stormkeeper

  • Interviewer Extraordinaire
  • 211
  • Boomz!
The only ship smaller than a destroyer that the player has a chance to get attached to.
:lol:

Ancient-Shivan War|Interview Board

Member of the Scooby Doo Fanclub. And we're not talking a cartoon dog here people!!

 
Eh, here's my thoughts.

Bosch as Alpha 1 = Interesting
Bosch as anyone else = BORING

       Why would the ST take such an awesome story point and throw it out the window? There's so much potential in that, so much so that the only thing that would make them not do that story is if it was too intimidating and they wussed out.

 

Offline Polpolion

  • The sizzle, it thinks!
  • 211
    • Minecraft
Eh, here's my thoughts.

Bosch as Alpha 1 = Interesting
Bosch as anyone else = BORING

       Why would the ST take such an awesome story point and throw it out the window? There's so much potential in that, so much so that the only thing that would make them not do that story is if it was too intimidating and they wussed out.

I disagree completely. Alpha 1 should always remain anon. Just like Freespace 1 and Freespace 2.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2008, 12:36:07 pm by thesizzler »

 

Offline Aardwolf

  • 211
  • Posts: 16,384
    • Minecraft
Eh, here's my thoughts.

Bosch as Alpha 1 = Interesting
Bosch as anyone else = BORING

       Why would the ST take such an awesome story point and throw it out the window? There's so much potential in that, so much so that the only thing that would make them not do that story is if it was too intimidating and they wussed out.

Because they might not have even had the story for FS2 planned out yet when they made ST, and because ST:R isn't going to completely change the style of the campaign by making the player someone who matters?

 
I disagree completely. Alpha 1 should always remain anon. Just like Freespace 1 and Freespace 2.

      I'm not saying they should have "Ensign Bosch, welcome" in the briefings. Just that, you can create the story, and the missions with the idea that the anonymous Alpha 1 is in fact bosch

 

Offline Polpolion

  • The sizzle, it thinks!
  • 211
    • Minecraft
I disagree completely. Alpha 1 should always remain anon. Just like Freespace 1 and Freespace 2.

      I'm not saying they should have "Ensign Bosch, welcome" in the briefings. Just that, you can create the story, and the missions with the idea that the anonymous Alpha 1 is in fact bosch

Then what's the point if you wouldn't be able to tell? They could easily create the same exact game with the idea that Alpha 1 is Ensign Petrarch.

 

Offline Galemp

  • Actual father of Samus
  • Moderator
  • 212
  • Ask me about GORT!
    • Steam
    • User page on the FreeSpace Wiki
It leaves the possibility open, neither confirming nor denying. The player can choose to believe he is Bosch, or not, as he pleases.
"Anyone can do any amount of work, provided it isn't the work he's supposed to be doing at that moment." -- Robert Benchley

Members I've personally met: RedStreblo, Goober5000, Sandwich, Splinter, Su-tehp, Hippo, CP5670, Terran Emperor, Karajorma, Dekker, McCall, Admiral Wolf, mxlm, RedSniper, Stealth, Black Wolf...

 
I disagree completely. Alpha 1 should always remain anon. Just like Freespace 1 and Freespace 2.

      I'm not saying they should have "Ensign Bosch, welcome" in the briefings. Just that, you can create the story, and the missions with the idea that the anonymous Alpha 1 is in fact bosch

Then what's the point if you wouldn't be able to tell? They could easily create the same exact game with the idea that Alpha 1 is Ensign Petrarch.

       What's the point? Because it's fun.
       One of the books I have, how to write science fiction, the author in there says something to the effect of "anyone can write a sex scene, sex scenes are easy. Writing a love scene though, that takes skill."

        It's easy to give something raw to the audience. To tell them flat out what the story is, who the characters are and so forth. But in something like a love scene, the emotion is much harder to communicate. How the characters express something so strong without saying "I love you, I love you" lalala. Express it through action, their adoration of one another, so forth.

        Similarly, the authors of ST:R can take the story, and start to think . . how do the events of the GTI rebellion influence Bosch? Assuming that Bosch is alpha 1. How do his motivations change, where does the alliance with the Shivans come from? If you take the premise, that Alpha 1 is Bosch, you can tailor every mission to not only tell the story of the GTI rebellion, but to tell the story of Bosch's transformation from young fighter pilot to life long idealist. And hell, if the story's REALLY good, the player might end up believing in Bosch's ideals themselves. To tell the player something, without ever actually telling them that something.
 
         And why? What's the point? Because it's hard andchallenging, and because it's fun. There are one dimensional characters, and there are one dimensional stories. Some people want to create both characters, and stories with multiple dimensions. And for the people that don't care about depth of story, they can play through from start to finsih and feel content. But the people who want to read deeper into things, they can appreciate the subtleties and see the true vision beneath surface. Or at least, what they think is the true vision, the true story. And of course, people will have different opinions, which in turn stimulates both interest and debate.  I mean, how much debate has raged throughout the years about the end of FS2? About Bosch's effect on the story. It happens again and again, and each time a new perspective is introduced.

      
        So yeah, it's worth it.

 

Offline Polpolion

  • The sizzle, it thinks!
  • 211
    • Minecraft
I disagree completely. Alpha 1 should always remain anon. Just like Freespace 1 and Freespace 2.

      I'm not saying they should have "Ensign Bosch, welcome" in the briefings. Just that, you can create the story, and the missions with the idea that the anonymous Alpha 1 is in fact bosch

Then what's the point if you wouldn't be able to tell? They could easily create the same exact game with the idea that Alpha 1 is Ensign Petrarch.

       What's the point? Because it's fun.
       One of the books I have, how to write science fiction, the author in there says something to the effect of "anyone can write a sex scene, sex scenes are easy. Writing a love scene though, that takes skill."

        It's easy to give something raw to the audience. To tell them flat out what the story is, who the characters are and so forth. But in something like a love scene, the emotion is much harder to communicate. How the characters express something so strong without saying "I love you, I love you" lalala. Express it through action, their adoration of one another, so forth.

        Similarly, the authors of ST:R can take the story, and start to think . . how do the events of the GTI rebellion influence Bosch? Assuming that Bosch is alpha 1. How do his motivations change, where does the alliance with the Shivans come from? If you take the premise, that Alpha 1 is Bosch, you can tailor every mission to not only tell the story of the GTI rebellion, but to tell the story of Bosch's transformation from young fighter pilot to life long idealist. And hell, if the story's REALLY good, the player might end up believing in Bosch's ideals themselves. To tell the player something, without ever actually telling them that something.
 
         And why? What's the point? Because it's hard andchallenging, and because it's fun. There are one dimensional characters, and there are one dimensional stories. Some people want to create both characters, and stories with multiple dimensions. And for the people that don't care about depth of story, they can play through from start to finsih and feel content. But the people who want to read deeper into things, they can appreciate the subtleties and see the true vision beneath surface. Or at least, what they think is the true vision, the true story. And of course, people will have different opinions, which in turn stimulates both interest and debate.  I mean, how much debate has raged throughout the years about the end of FS2? About Bosch's effect on the story. It happens again and again, and each time a new perspective is introduced.

      
        So yeah, it's worth it.

Then why on Earth do you have to do anything special to the game? What's preventing the ST:R team from just making the game and you imagining Alpha 1 being Bosch?  :rolleyes:

 
Then why on Earth do you have to do anything special to the game? What's preventing the ST:R team from just making the game and you imagining Alpha 1 being Bosch?  :rolleyes:

      ST:R team is free to do what they want. If they want to do something special it's up to them.
      I can play Freespace 2 and pretend I'm really a drunken kangaroo in a pink speedo, but the story won't support it so my delusion will erode pretty quickly.

 

Offline Polpolion

  • The sizzle, it thinks!
  • 211
    • Minecraft
Then why on Earth do you have to do anything special to the game? What's preventing the ST:R team from just making the game and you imagining Alpha 1 being Bosch?  :rolleyes:

      ST:R team is free to do what they want. If they want to do something special it's up to them.
      I can play Freespace 2 and pretend I'm really a drunken kangaroo in a pink speedo, but the story won't support it so my delusion will erode pretty quickly.

What? First you said that you want to play as Bosch and that ST:R would stink if you couldn't, then you said that they shouldn't make it all that obvious that you're Bosch, and then lastly you said that you want to play as Bosch because it makes the story better.

Hypothetically, let's say that the ST:R dev team made ST:R without any thoughts given specifically to Bosch. What's preventing you from pretending that you're Bosch? But I could just as easily pretend that I'm not Bosch. In essence, we're both happy, and practically speaking the main character is whoever you want it to be.

Now let's say (hypothetically) that they make it obvious that you're Bosch. They just lost one of the feelings that made Freespace what it is (Note how I never said that you can't still enjoy it). But at least one person will still be a little disappointed.

 
What? First you said that you want to play as Bosch and that ST:R would stink if you couldn't, then you said that they shouldn't make it all that obvious that you're Bosch, and then lastly you said that you want to play as Bosch because it makes the story better.

       Eh, all I ever said is that the idea of Bosch, as Alpha 1 in ST, is a glorious opportunity to enrich a story that ST:R would be silly to ignore.

       You don't seem to get it.
       It's not about pretending to be Bosch or not pretending. It's about shaping the story such that Bosch could be the anonymous Alpha 1. For example, Bosch thinks the Vasudans are a waste of time. Why? Did something happen in the past? Bosch is essentially just the Hammer of Light, but rather than aid the Shivans in an alliance they never agreed to he wants to form an alliance and bring humanity on equal terms. But why just humanity? Why not humanity and the Vasudans?
       Or what prompts him to think an alliance with the Shivans is a good idea in the first place? Just eTak? Only the research? There can be more to it than that.

 
       Here' a very simple comparison.
       Let's say we have Game A - where some NTF ship Captain with a name hates the Vasudans

       Then we go back to some Great War era. And say we play a campaign where that Captain with a name is unnamed Alpha 1. Then maybe we have a mission where, Vasudan allies fail to protect some civilians against the Shivans. Alpha 1 is there, but has other responsibilities. Let's say we have another mission where Hammer of Light forces destroy the player's ship. Or let's say we have another mission where vasudan reinforcements never arrive and leave Alpha 1 against hopeless odds. And maybe, Alpha 1's wingmen spout a LOT of Vasudan rhetoric. Maybe his wing leaders in particular spout a lot.

        So someone could play that campaign and figure, "wow, this Alpha 1 could be that captain!"

        Whereas what you're saying is that, a person should go into a Great War era campaign and say "I'm NTF Captain Bollox as the anonymous Alpha 1!" and then you play the campaign and mission after mission there are helpful vasudans, and command your wingmen speak highly of them . . then at some point you think "Well, CAptain bollox hates vasudans, but, if I'm him, then . why would I? I love my Vasudan allies. They saved my ass a few times". See, it doesn't really work.

      That's the difference.

 

Offline Polpolion

  • The sizzle, it thinks!
  • 211
    • Minecraft
Oh jesus god, of course I don't get it.

Your first post said that the ST:R devs would be wusses if they didn't make "Bosch as Alpha 1" (to quote you exactly), then you said that no one would actually tell you that Alpha 1 is Bosch, but that you would still be playing as Bosch.

And then you said that they should do it because "it's hard andchallenging and because it's fun", even though the first part doesn't apply to you because you're not a dev, and the rest of the post just described how it would make the Devs be better Devs and it would make Bosch seem like a cooler character (ignoring the fact that there are better ways of doing it).

Then in your next post, you proceed to describe Bosch as someone who hates Vasudans (while Monologue #2 strongly suggests that he doesn't actually hate the Vasudans), you mocked both the Dev's skill and my intelligence while simultaneously contradicting your previous paragraph and making an incomplete analogy.

And because I just can't understand what you're saying all that well, I suggest we get back onto a less-combustible topic.