Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Nico on June 01, 2003, 03:53:14 pm
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That's a question that has been running in my head for a few months already...
First, just take a quick pick at the hosted sections.
bare a couple campaigns, everything is dead ( yeah, that includes OTT of course ). lack of motivation, of time or anything, many reasons can be summoned, but the fact is there.
checking at the BWO forum at the VWBB kindda confirms what I believe. Even if the guys there say it's done soon, where is the enthousiasm people were showing at the begining?
which leads me to:
do people still care? there's been a few releases for the last few months ( lightning marshall, the second tBP demo, the FSport, etc ). where's the feedback, where's the proof that more than 10 people played those ( I don't ask for a count, even if it's 20 or 30 people, the point isn't there )?
the SCP: said to give a new life to FS2... people ask for stuff, and more stuff, the SCP people won't/can't listen to every request, of course. anyway where's the benefits? who uses it? probably many of those "dormant" projects? out of the SCP forum, does it have any impact?
I will probably sound like a bloody pessimistic guy to most of you, but that's how I feel about the whole FS2 story right now. Nobody wants that to be true, but... have you never asked yourself that question... isn't FS2 dead already, but nobody even noticed?
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i still play it online as much as i dare ;)
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Originally posted by Venom
That's a question that has been running in my head for a few months already...
First, just take a quick pick at the hosted sections.
bare a couple campaigns, everything is dead ( yeah, that includes OTT of course ). lack of motivation, of time or anything, many reasons can be summoned, but the fact is there.
checking at the BWO forum at the VWBB kindda confirms what I believe. Even if the guys there say it's done soon, where is the enthousiasm people were showing at the begining?
which leads me to:
do people still care? there's been a few releases for the last few months ( lightning marshall, the second tBP demo, the FSport ). where's the feedback, where's the proof that more than 10 people played those ( I don't ask for a count, even if it's 20 or 30 people, the point isn't there )?
the SCP: said to give a new life to FS2... people ask for stuff, and more stuff, the SCP people won't/can't listen to every request, of course. anyway where's the benefits? who uses it? probably many of those "dormant" projects? out of the SCP forum, does it have any impact?
I will probably sound like a bloody pessimistic guy to most of you, but that's how I feel about the whole FS2 story right now. Nobody wants that to be true, but... have you never asked yourself that question... isn't FS2 dead already, but nobody even noticed?
I personally feel that it's been dead for a while but I know I'll be re-installing when the SCP is finished and possibly for BWO. I come here more for the community anyway.
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Does it matter?
Oh, wow, Venom, it never occurred to me that FreeSpace might have declined in popularity since five years ago! Well, guess that means I'm not coming around here anymore! Or playing it!
[walks off whistling]
[ducks back in]
See what I mean? "Dead" isn't an applicable term, nor would it be relevant even if it was. Yeah, a lot of the campaign designers are lazy and bit off more than they could chew, only to lose interest as soon as the novelty wore off and stuff actually became hard to do, but that's nothing special. Yeah, the community's small, but this game was never ****in' Quake. So?
Me, I've always been a fan of officially dropping the really dead campaigns and making the staffers work on some of the ones that are still alive (if only so that some of my stuff eventually sees the light), but whatever. A few will probably make it through.
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Originally posted by 01010
I come here more for the community anyway.
Indeed. We don't much care about FS anymore, we just come here to talk about, well, stuff.:D
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I'm working on mine... slowly...
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To be blunt, i'd say so. The only reason I'm still working on Reci is because of the time I've already invested in it - in all honesty, I'd much rather be modding something else (or not atall - probably the more tempting option), and in a few months I probably will be.
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Considering Descent 3 sold 60,000 copies worldwide (which is pretty dead), and Freespace 2 sold less than 30,000, I'm surprised there is anything going on here at all. In all truth, I would say this is FAR from dead when you look at the statistics !
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Originally posted by aldo_14
To be blunt, i'd say so. The only reason I'm still working on Reci is because of the time I've already invested in it - in all honesty, I'd much rather be modding something else (or not atall - probably the more tempting option), and in a few months I probably will be.
Well do you want to decide whether or not it's going ahead? You're never going to do it if you're not enjoying it, and I'd hate to think we were keeping you working on something you didn't want to work on :blah:
Anyway, FS2 isn't dead - lookit! (www.angelfire.com/magic/diamondgeezer)
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We've been quite aware of the declining interest in Freespace, and have our eyes open for other things we can expand into, within the GS limits imposed upon us. Artwork there will always be, but as for a game? I honestly don't know. Remember that the SCP will never be truly "completed", since people will always be adding things to it.
I hold the Battlezone community in the utmost respect for their single (that I know of - not that I've looked for any more, really) completed project, the Battlezone II Community Project. IMHO they did an outstanding job on the administration and coordination of that project, with great PR and everything. It seemed like a project that the whole community was behind, as opposed to the dozens of campaign ideas that have cropped up for FS2.
Which is kinda ironic, don'tcha think?
Anyway, if I had my way, the community would all jump behind one or two projects with potential to draw the most attention from the outside world, such as the B5 and Star Wars TCs. Add to that a concentrated effort by SCP coders to capitulate to the needs of those MODs, such as cycling lasers for SW, or whatever for B5 (never saw it, really), and you'd have the best engine for SW gaming, and the only (?) engine for B5 gaming.
Just think about it: Gamespy, Gamespot, and Games Domain doing complete reviews of a completed and comprehensive Star Wars Total conversion to the now-freely available FS2 engine. They undoubtable point out the thriving, active community here, all surrounding a game that is 4 years old - unheard of! Add on perhaps a few good banner ads in the GS banner network, and various other beneficial stuff (like a truly pro website), and things would really take off.
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Originally posted by Sandwich
Add to that a concentrated effort by SCP coders to capitulate to the needs of those MODs, such as cycling lasers for SW, or whatever for B5 (never saw it, really), and you'd have the best engine for SW gaming, and the only (?) engine for B5 gaming.
Don't forget the ejectior pods for S:AAB :p
BTW, Sarnie, could you poke Windrunner for me? I asked him earlier this afternoon to pimp me website in the news, but seems to have better things to do
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FS is very much close to being dead. It's not there yet, but it's close.
Of course, many other communities made "community projects" that really boosted interest in the game, most notably Falcon 4.0.
If we could do that, and do some advertising on Gs, the FS community might have a chance. Eventually, though, the HLP forum and the HLP art forum will be the only ones that are at least semi-active.
Me? I've moved on to modding other games. FS just doesn't have that flare anymore. I mean, dumb AI, a canned campaign, dumb AI, dumb AI, dumb AI, and some mroe dumb AI. There are other space-combat games out there (older, granted) that have more to offer in terms of gameplay.
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OTT is dead? I thought Venom brought it back to finish a few missions and then release it.
That sucks :(
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Originally posted by Bri_Dog
OTT is dead? I thought Venom brought it back to finish a few missions and then release it.
That sucks :(
no, not dead, I handed it over to Woomeister
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It's hard to do anything anymore. I know, I've been trying to release whatever we had in the RT mod, but with barely any community interest, it's hard to work on it and give it a reason.
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I think the real future of the community would be something like vegastrike. a free, clean, new engine, with which we could do whatever we want.
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Wow...a lot of pesimism here...
I intend to finish my campaign even if it kills me.
And I allo intend to help those whom I promised to finish their campaigns..
DEAD!? A game is not dead as long as a single human beeing plays it.
FS lives forever!:D
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only problem is, a lot of people don't want to leave FS2 and go to a different game, because FS is probably the easiest game to mod.
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FS2 is simply not interseting to play anymore.
For instance, right now, I'm going to play a game. It will be a space combat game. However, rather than going to play FS2, I'm going to go play Macross VFX-2 on my Playstation emulator (srry if that stuff isn't allowed around here). Why? Because VFX2 offers something interesting. You get to transform, do ground missions, against AI that is at least somewhat of a challenge (even if you yourself is hampered by the game). FS2 is simply shoot, shoot, shoot, no actual skill required. All you have to do is aim at the lead reticle. There's no fancy manuevering, besides simply rotating on a dime so you can put your guns on target.
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Originally posted by Venom
no, not dead, I handed it over to Woomeister
Ah, I see now. Thanks.
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pessemism = teh bad
Ok guys, yeah facts are facts. But the better question would be: how to revive the community, give it new life. I am yet to see another space shooter that approaches FS2. The problem is people are demoralised. Its an old engine, its kinda hard to mod, and rarely anything gets completed. The first question is, do you really care if it dies. ARe you willing to put up an effort to counter this process, or are you just like whatever. It really sucks that a bunch of the best modders like Aldo and the TBP guys are loosing interest. Cause if there was a real effort, FS2 could be given new life in a new engine, game or whatever.
Thats the thing, whats your ideas for saving FS2 or giving it new life. And more importantly, do you even care.
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the only idea I have ( concerning myself, I'm not making a generalisation there ) is to just to move to something else.
that would at least get rid of all those "why do you want to do that? there's nothing like that in FS2, it would go against the spirit blablabla crap crap" **** I read in the source code and modding forums.
the FS2 universe ( and all the backward compatibility induced ) has become a bane for modding, it's a limitation more than anything else now.
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Are you talking about the FS2 engine, or the universe. If you mean egine, then yeah, we need something new and shiny, and something that will still be new and shiny 2 years from now. If you mean the universe, then I dont agree. The universe is what people like around here, thats why we're all here. So messing with that is a no no..
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[color=66ff00]I'd often thought of asking for a community effort for one particular mod, get it done and dusted, there's no doubt that the skill is here but I've always felt that people had 'better things to do'.
We all came here for a reason, to have fun and for a percentage of the people here, make something we wanted to see in the game, a scenario we thought was interesting or unique, asthetically pleasing models, an interesting plot. Art...
As everyone is painfully aware Real Life™ has an annoying habit of stepping in and halting whatever work we want to do in favour of the work we're obliged to do, that's why I personally have always kept the projects I've worked on small in scale.
I think this is a fantastic community but it currently has far less focus than it did when we got the source, everything's cooled off as we realise that what we want to see this game do involves hard work or something beyond our current skills.
As for the other part of the denizens here, the gamers; mostly who either lurk until something interesting pops up or who just like to discuss things of interest to them, well they could do this on any board. How many games are around now that you'd prefer to play? A lot I'd guess. And how can you blame them, a game is our method of having fun, what's the point of sticking at it unless you're getting either the gratification of either winning or of increasing your skill level?
Realistically the only way that freespace can become a crowd puller is if we make it exciting, something that requires commitment and hard work. For me the question is not 'is freespace dead?', the question is 'do we want freespace to be dead?'.
I very much hope not.
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For the record, I still love to play the FS2 campaign every month or two. I usually sit and blast throuch it in two evenings. It's still great as ever.
As for the enthusiasm for modding, well - whenever I get a bit bored, I just go and watch an epsidoe or two of Space: Above And Beyond. Afterwards, I can't help but jump on my comp and work on my mod for a while (whilst listening to Johnny Cash, of course)
BTW, did I mention the website (www.angelfire.com/magic/diamondgeezer)?
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Jeez. Is everyone on a downer tonight or what? :)
I really don't know what you guys are on but I've been looking at the TBP forums over at volitionwatch and the place is buzzing with newbies making missions. I certainly don't see much sign of the TBP team getting board of FS2 so the spirit of pessimism seems to only be affecting this particular site.
If you don't want FS2 to die I suggest getting the word out that the game exists more. If only 30,000 copies we sold then there are millions of people out there who haven't ever tried the game. A little pimping of projects like the Star Wars mod and TBP could easily bring us hundreds of new fans.
As many people have said it's just a case of do we want to keep FS2 alive rather than is it dead.
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I'm not on a downer. I've got a S:AAB website (http://www.angelfire.com/magic/diamondgeezer) :)
(last pimp for today - g'night, everybody!)
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I'll give you three games, and tell you what I like about them. Some of the stuff I like about the other games, I can do in FS2, but no one seems to really actually care.
Here it is:
Independence War 2: Fun physics that require more than just shooting skills: it requires actual thinking.
Macross VFX2 (Just beat it, I think, froze up before I could save): Fast-paced battles, great universe, and very, very cool missle storms.
Macross VO: Good physics (almost as good as I-War 2, but more fun), cool universe, and cool animations.
Now, except for the animations part, I can put every single thing I mentioned into FS2. I would, too and release it to the public, except for one small problem: no one cares. If I release it, it'll get knocked down to the bottom of the page by a bunch of newbie questions, I won't bump it, because I don't want to be rude, and it will just fade into obscurity. What this community needs, if it wants this game to survive, is a centralized, highly motivated core of people working to release a collective MOD that will update FS2 to semi-new standards.
I volounteer, if that ever starts. I can do phyics, battle pacing, art, and storyline.
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Originally posted by karajorma
Jeez. Is everyone on a downer tonight or what? :)
I really don't know what you guys are on but I've been looking at the TBP forums over at volitionwatch and the place is buzzing with newbies making missions. I certainly don't see much sign of the TBP team getting board of FS2 so the spirit of pessimism seems to only be affecting this particular site.
If you don't want FS2 to die I suggest getting the word out that the game exists more. If only 30,000 copies we sold then there are millions of people out there who haven't ever tried the game. A little pimping of projects like the Star Wars mod and TBP could easily bring us hundreds of new fans.
As many people have said it's just a case of do we want to keep FS2 alive rather than is it dead.
TBP forums are indeed buzzing...with all kinds of people! I'm starting to dry up a little on this scene...having been here since early 1998...thats 5 years hanging around FS stuff. In general, TBP aside, things are probably going to dry up. I want to get BWO out the door and I'm probably going to assist a few guys get some projects done and that sort of thing but the greatest problem is that FreeSpace 2 hasn't been republished since the Space Sim of the Year Edition came out. No whitebox version, no nothing. Its virtually impossible to get your hands on FS2 because Interplay doesn't sell it. They still sell Descent: FreeSpace...but not FreeSpace 2. Ahh whatever. That company killed FreeSpace and I'll remain bitter about it :D
FreeSpace 2 is dying...so a time will come when the community starts to really dry up. But I don't think were quite there yet.
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To add to that, someone needs to make a damn banner for HLP so we can put it in the lineup!
I've tried, but my image editing is hampered by the fact that I only have MS Paint.
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Originally posted by IceFire
FreeSpace 2 is dying...so a time will come when the community starts to really dry up. But I don't think were quite there yet.
We're too close to it. That's what worries me.
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I also recommend that a concentrated effort should be made for freespace, at the moment most modders/coders are doing what they want off of their own ideas (which is sensible, it's their time). But that gets little done.
I believe it'd be helpful if coders would make more code for specific large-scale projects and focused on major things like the engine rehaul which will benefit everyone.
So maybe people need some selflessness and sacrifice to build something for the sake of the whole community? That may sound a bit arrogant of me (after all, it's your volunteer time) but it's probably the most efficient thing to do now. :nod:
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Everybody, please look at this thread:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,15470.msg295596.html#msg295596
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Do you kow what I read in this topic? An isolated community. One that is practically killing itself. In the past, I've spent time on other forums, discussing FS2, and I've seen FS2 discussions on unrelated forums in which I did not directly participate.
Never, have I once seen anybody say anything negative about FS2 except for the fact that they couldn't find it when they went to look for it. The HOTU release, if we were to directly support it and to shamelessly pimp it on other sci fi gaming boards, allows us to do what interplay wouldn't, and bring in new players.
Think abut it - we have a damned fine community here - we have a great game, plenty of history (they may seem old to us, but I think new members would be well pleased with the number of available mods/campagns/missions), a modding system that we've worked out to a T and enough people who know how to do it that getting newbs involved would be almost ridiculously simple - everything. With a bit of coordination on our part (Collecting all the campaigns together for Newbs to find, possibly putting the missing files from HOTU up for DL somewhere) and a damned lot of pimping, I know we can get more people here, and keep them.
I would also like to say one thing. I played FS2 last night. Just for fun. And I enjoyed myself. The game still looked damned fine (and this was just FS2, no glowmaps or tiled beams or anything else needed). The missions I was playing were still fun and emersive. Whether there's a community here or not to enjoy the game, I know for one that I, as an individual, will be enjoying the game for a very long time to come.
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Originally posted by Unknown Target
FS2 is simply not interseting to play anymore.
For instance, right now, I'm going to play a game. It will be a space combat game. However, rather than going to play FS2, I'm going to go play Macross VFX-2 on my Playstation emulator (srry if that stuff isn't allowed around here). Why? Because VFX2 offers something interesting. You get to transform, do ground missions, against AI that is at least somewhat of a challenge (even if you yourself is hampered by the game). FS2 is simply shoot, shoot, shoot, no actual skill required. All you have to do is aim at the lead reticle. There's no fancy manuevering, besides simply rotating on a dime so you can put your guns on target.
I think in time the SCP coders will eventually include the physics and manoeuvrability coding into the system in which the players ship will move and handle differently...but that I think will be at least a while.
Originally posted by Unknown Target
Now, except for the animations part, I can put every single thing I mentioned into FS2. I would, too and release it to the public, except for one small problem: no one cares. If I release it, it'll get knocked down to the bottom of the page by a bunch of newbie questions, I won't bump it, because I don't want to be rude, and it will just fade into obscurity. What this community needs, if it wants this game to survive, is a centralized, highly motivated core of people working to release a collective MOD that will update FS2 to semi-new standards.
This particular paragraph caught my mind - why - because it reminds me of interplay and how there advertising sector poorly promoted Freespace2...don't you think that if theres a big update in a campaign the news writers for the sites should be informed and sticky forum posts should be made - oh and there also should be a link for replies in the campaign post so that post isn't overpopulated by replies...
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Ima repeat what i said in the other thread ( http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,15470.msg295596.html#msg295596 ); and black wolf i agree entirely. i got alot of people in other forums into FS2, hell these more then we will ever know cause they dont know we EXIST!!!!!
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In my opinion, thats what the SCP is doing this very moment. it just doesnt happen as fast as alot of us would like it to go, but there doing just that. I know DAVEB just at home watching us handle our buisness and knows we;ve got something good, and when its finally acomplished, we're going to reach a level that many old games never will make.
honestly, its like the Freespace - Freelancer debate. if Freespace was in Freelancer, but Freelancer played like Freespace, ALOT OF PEOPLE WOULD BE HAPPIER THEN ANYTHING. But, that would be in a perfect world. the most we can get is the Freelancer mods, even then there limited.
Now, if someone got the bright IDEA to attempt a massive Freelancer-Freespace converstion, make EVERY freespace system planet ship species etc, then that would be an achievement for a game and a universe that has spanned 5+ years, and is so rich in story that the current FS2 engine can only hint at. and mind u, V did a good job at it.
so i dunno if anything we just need to be patient.
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From that there is still more promotion that could be done - like meta tags (for search engines), banners that run through gamespy and other game domains, more promotion the bigger the community..:nod:
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Ok, A few good points have been brought up in here.
People don't want to volunteer time to work on something they don't even enjoy anymore. I admit to not liking some things about projects and it's hard to work with something you don't enjoy. But the you feel the pressuire that the community is dying and you need to do your part, but then you don't even want to. really confusing.
My point is that what the community needs is a big [rpject, compareable to an FS3, but it'll never happen. One being, with Freespace's age and all the ideas and campaigns, you'll never get anyone to decide on a Plot. Two, there's always the thought of "But what did V actually come up with?" that would question whatever plot that was miraculously agreed on. And three, people will never come to a consesnus and will want to work on their own ****, just like now.
So the only real alternative being a project like the SCP. FS is so old and left so open ended that it can't really have an ending as far as I'm concerned. Well, that came out wrong. More along the lines of FS can't and The Ending. Too many possibilities. Which is a burden, but also the whole draw to Freespace , IMO. Yet it's also the reason why the community won't last for much longer. Twisted...
Ok, enough with the ranting. Bassically, the way you guys present it, the only way we could 'save the community' is to get word out of us (to a gaming site/mag) as a game that is extremely moddable and easy at that. That would get us the fresh meat we need. (****, we can't even get word out to 3dap though :doubt: we really need a banner). We could also use a Community (if not, then just major) project. Similiar to what I beleive Twisted Infinites started off as. The only problem would be comming up with sometihng everyone likes, but I mean, if every fredder made 1 mission, it wouldn't be that hard.
... Seems I've lost track of what I was saying... reminds me of this thread. :blah:
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AND LASTLY! THERE SHOULD BE NO REASON WE START TRYING TO FLAME EACH OTHER OVER OPINION! MY MATRIX REVIEW THREAD HAD ALOT OF GOOD KNOWLEDGE GOING ON, CAUSE THERE IS SO MUCH PHILOSOPHY IN IT, THAT WE AS A COMUNITY TRIED TO DECRYPT THE DAMN THING. AND BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE CANT REFRAME FROM ACTING CHILDISH, THE BOSS CAME DOWN AND WARNED THEM MORE THEN ONCE, AND CLOSED A DAMN GOOD THREAD. THERE SHOULD BE NO REASON WE GET AT EACH OTHER NECKS! IF WE FALL OFF HLP, THEN WE START FALLING OFF THE GAME, THE PROJECTS, THEN THE SCP, THE SOURCE CODE WE FAUGHT FOR SO LONG TO GET, AND WE;LL LOOSE IT DUE TO BORDEM AND INPATIENTNESS AND OVER PROUD PEOPLE WHO JUST DONT KNOW HOW TO RESPECT EVERYONES OPINION. ----->:hopping:
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now my happy side, look im tired of the bickering. the worst thing that can happen in a family, is the fighting and petty drama. we start loosing our key member's, then were going to loose entire communities, projects, then, the SCP as well... and in the end, i know i wouldnt keep in touch with half of the peeps for whatever reason in here, and end up probrbaly on a freelancer forum.... cause atleast there they got some decency to apreciate the others opinion.
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
We could also use a Community (if not, then just major) project. Similiar to what I beleive Twisted Infinites started off as.
That was a piss off - if F2S hadn't gone comatose when it had I honestly believe that TI could have at least partially filled the nieche for a high quality community based project. But F2S did die, and now it's become just another campaign. Ah well. Such is life.
That doesn;t mean I'm gonna stop making it though :p
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i agree KT
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What about Paradigm Shift? That campaign VW was gonna do after BWO. IIRC it was supposed to be a campaign to wrap up the FreeSpace storyline. I think if we can end the FS story and do a good job at it FS2 will be able to die happy.:sigh:
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You know, this is an awful lot of fine sentiment, but I get the feeling that this isn't exactly the first time someone's stood up and said "I know! We can save the game with a community project!" and everyone got together and said "Yes!" and exactly ****-all happened. Unless something's actually done about it- and by that I mean the admins laying the smack down and deleting any campaign that isn't actively, and heavily, worked on, regardless of lame excuses and screaming by project leaders about how their baby is getting killed, exactly ****-all is about to happen again. And the way this forum's going, I don't see that happening. Everyone's gotten too comfortable doing nothing and then going on about how important it is, and the admins are no longer, ah, junta-like enough to make this **** happen (no offense:D ). Hell, most other forums I woulda gotten a month's ban for the David Copperfield thing- not that I'm recommending it now or ever, I'm just saying that I was surprised when nothing happened then, that Razor's never been properly taught to show respect, that the admins themselves are among the major spammers now. Anarchist that I am, I love what it's done for the forum, but amateur historian and psychologist that I am, I know dictatorships are the way to get people to do ****.
But whatever it is, it needs to be enforced. Turn HLP, as a Freespace modding forum like it used to be, into just that- think forced labor camp, and you'd have a project. Set deadline(even generous ones) and make everyone on staff work or get cut off from their HLP supply for a month (plus time, if they don't finish it by then), you'll get stuff done ahead of schedule. There's enough skill and more than enough free time to get a dozen campaigns going, it's just that everyone (me included) is bone idle and won't do **** until they feel they have to. Summer's coming up, and for me at least it's the last summer I might be able to do this ****. Now or never.
The first step, I believe, is to get rid of this God-damned language filter.
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Welp, I personally don't think FS2 is dead, not yet. Given that interest is declining, there are still several big projects hanging around, and TCs still hold quite a bit of interest. Keep in mind though, nothing big and new has happened to the FS community over the last few years save for Inferno's first release.
Now, if only I could find a few dedicated fredders, I have a decent demo on the frying pan. ;)
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*strangely aggrees with Stryke*
iCool idea! get FS2 on downloads.com . :D
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I'm going to agree with Stryke (although I'm sure he'll claim he doesn't need any agreeing, he knows he's right ;) ) and push that if a project like the community project is done it be rather rigid and serious and the admins back it with their support. I want to feel that our community can actually get some real **** done ;7
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Strykes idea has some Merit, but it is fundamentally impractible for several reasons. First off, most of the very best modders, FREDders etc. are already doing campaigns here, or at least staff on them. You start deleting at the first slow downs, then you're gonna piss people off, and pissed off people don't make the best volunteers. Again on the harsh crackdowns to make people work - pissed off people, refuse to work, get banned/leave voluntarily because of the new Dictatorial regime that's taken over. F2S will still offer hosting, so will VWatch probably, even Angels Graveyard is providing campaign forums now, and there's always Stealths server, and if all else fails angelfire and EZboard. You can't force peoplle to work on a community project. It just wont happen.
Ultimately the only way to really get campaigns out there is to start having people make some tough descisions - to voluntarily leave campaigns and offer their services to some of the larger/more likely to be completed campaigns. I've spread myself too thin, and any day now I'm going to have to starty dispatching sorry but emails. Again, this can't be forced, and has to be voluntary.
And even if this were to happen, it still probably wouldn;t solve the bigger problem of dwindling community interest, as campaigns are almost never pimped outside the community, and the game itself is almost impossible to find outside the community. More people, fresh blood demanding updates and new stuff, increased community interest in coming campaigns, intense peer pressure - that's probably the best way to speed up work, not threats and punishments for failure.
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Perhaps some campaign leaders should admit defeat, give up their faltering projects and allow their staff to turn their attention to other mods? (see Aldo's previous post)
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why not try n' wrap them up or something? I can see some campaigns just cutting their losses and such (OTT) but after all that work, wouldn't you want to show something?
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
You know, this is an awful lot of fine sentiment, but I get the feeling that this isn't exactly the first time someone's stood up and said "I know! We can save the game with a community project!" and everyone got together and said "Yes!" and exactly ****-all happened. Unless something's actually done about it- and by that I mean the admins laying the smack down and deleting any campaign that isn't actively, and heavily, worked on, regardless of lame excuses and screaming by project leaders about how their baby is getting killed, exactly ****-all is about to happen again. And the way this forum's going, I don't see that happening. Everyone's gotten too comfortable doing nothing and then going on about how important it is, and the admins are no longer, ah, junta-like enough to make this **** happen (no offense:D ). Hell, most other forums I woulda gotten a month's ban for the David Copperfield thing- not that I'm recommending it now or ever, I'm just saying that I was surprised when nothing happened then, that Razor's never been properly taught to show respect, that the admins themselves are among the major spammers now. Anarchist that I am, I love what it's done for the forum, but amateur historian and psychologist that I am, I know dictatorships are the way to get people to do ****.
But whatever it is, it needs to be enforced. Turn HLP, as a Freespace modding forum like it used to be, into just that- think forced labor camp, and you'd have a project. Set deadline(even generous ones) and make everyone on staff work or get cut off from their HLP supply for a month (plus time, if they don't finish it by then), you'll get stuff done ahead of schedule. There's enough skill and more than enough free time to get a dozen campaigns going, it's just that everyone (me included) is bone idle and won't do **** until they feel they have to. Summer's coming up, and for me at least it's the last summer I might be able to do this ****. Now or never.
The first step, I believe, is to get rid of this God-damned language filter.
Scarily enough, I agree 99% - the language filter will remain in place.
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Well, SA is proceeding quite nicely. I am quite happy with the work my staff is doing.
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Yeah, I would too if I had GE producing that kind of work for me :p ;)
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One idea. If we really need a community project why on Earth is everyone talking about starting something new that will take ages to finish?
If we are going to do a community project we should get behind an existing project rather than trying to reinvent the wheel by starting again from nothing.
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hear hear. What is the point in starting afresh, the project will only die like all the others.
We need to get more people onto the large projects, like the StarWars conversion, the TVWP, and even TAP! And all the others, Inferno, Reciwhatever, and so on.
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right, there's some logic to that, but then, which project does everyone get behind? And then, doesn't that take away hal of what the project is? I mean, some of the campaigns around here, let's say Machina Terra for example. (they've been around since before I was born and I've been interested in them for just as long) Frankly, I wouldn't want to know anything about them, wether it be story or ship or plot. I don't know if my feelings are misplaced or not, but some things I just want to be suprised by.
Then there's the problem of where we draw a line to that. I mean, do we make campaigns to try to show people a story that will invoke shock and awe (haven't heard that term for 3 weeks) or do we do it just to test are mettle? Or is a truely good project a bit of both?
EDIT: After reading Petrarch's reply I realised something. It's comming to terms with the ending that I don't like being spoiled. I just realised, something like TVWP, there's nothing really to spoil (in the way of suprise).
To make a point, I think half the fun of Freespace 2's open ending is seeing what people can come up with to solve the puzzle. Seeing the full picture before it is put together just doesn't seem right in my head I guess. :blah:
bah. All this discussion is making me feel old. Must. Regenerate.
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On the other hand, the FS2 ending as it is seems way too inconclusive to stand. I mean, after killing the Lucy you knew it wasn't the end, but it still had an air of finality, like something was accomplished and the GTVA was safe for a time at least. FS2, there's none of that. Shivans could come roaring round the bend ten minutes later and kill everyone- and in general it just left a bad taste in the mouth, like they weren't expecting to have finished it then but had to cut it short. An ending we make wouldn't have to be final, it wouldn't even be technically "official", it'd just be getting something out the door- which isn't gonna happen at all, at this rate. If we finish it fast enough, hell, we can work on another. And so on. It would, in the end, be no more canon than, say, Derelict is- it's popular, lots of people integrate the events into their plot, but it's not obligatory (for that matter, nothing is entirely. Anyone who wants to make a campaign where the Shivans are sentient bananas and everyone flies around in a magical donut is free to, they'll just have an accordingly more difficult time convincing other people it's a good idea. We're a pretty conservative bunch.)
But no. We aren't going to have everyone do the TVWP, Petrarch. It's a nice campaign, but it's your campaign, not everybody's. Never mind that that'd be a turnoff for participating, it'd mean that everything was already preset, that it'd just be a lot of uncreative **** work- the very uncreative **** work you haven't done, likely partially because it's so dull- modding isn't supposed to be just slave labor for you, dude, we don't get paid enough to be bored. And it wouldn't be fair to the other campaign workers- after all, a lot of them are pretty decent, and just as or even more than deserving of completion. BUT. If one gets selected for this whole schmazola, then all of them would have to or you'd have a lot of very angry project leaders storming out. And those project leaders sometimes have a degree of skill, even reliant on the rest of us staffers as they are.:D
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
right, there's some logic to that, but then, which project does everyone get behind? And then, doesn't that take away hal of what the project is? I mean, some of the campaigns around here, let's say Machina Terra for example. (they've been around since before I was born and I've been interested in them for just as long) Frankly, I wouldn't want to know anything about them, wether it be story or ship or plot. I don't know if my feelings are misplaced or not, but some things I just want to be suprised by.
You could make pretty much the same arguement against a new community project. After all if we do build a fantastic community project together who will want to play it? We'll all know the plotline. Twisted Infinites would have worked because large parts of the community ignore F2S and so would be unaware of the plotline but anything at HLP would be known by the whole community.
Sticking with working with an existing project, one idea would be to get behind a project that would attract people from outside the community. That means that TBP, Star Wars and even the SG-1 project currently being discussed on VWBB are good ones to get behind.
Even better you can't really spoil the storyline for that kind of mod because all you have to do is recreate something from the show.
Look at the missions from TBP for an example of what I mean. Knowing what was going to happen wouldn't have spoiled that mod much because there aren't any mods in it we haven't already seen and most of the plotline is also well known so there are only little surprises.
Secondly once the mod has been completed many people start making new missions for it themselves. The spin off's are where those of us who contributed to the project get to play something that we don't know the plotline to.
Again I'm using TBP as an example cause if you look at the forums you'll see lots of missions being made by people who are newbies. If we want to keep FS2 alive we need to bring in new blood.
People are crying out for a B5 game. The sad fact is that very few of them know about the existance of TBP and most of those who do can't play it cause they don't have FS2 and the FS2_open is quite at the stage where it supports it seamlessly.
The SG-1 project over at VWBB is at an early stage but would also be another good one to get behind. As far as I know there aren't any space shooters for that universe. I'm sure the fans wouldn't mind playing one.
Finally any community project can't be based in the FS2 universe. That sort of thing won't draw in much new blood. Most of the newbies won't have played FS2 and will have a hard time following the heavily detailed plotline. If the community decides to make something new it has to be set in a universe differnet from FS2 so that we can attract newbies.
In that way we can advertise it as a completely new game. Once they are here we can explain how this wonderful new game can be easily modded to play FS2 on it. :)
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Think of it this way: will you bother to play this game in another year? With all the new games coming out, will a new campaign for a 5-year-old game really pull you back in?
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Originally posted by Unknown Target
Think of it this way: will you bother to play this game in another year? With all the new games coming out, will a new campaign for a 5-year-old game really pull you back in?
Almost certainly. I've been waiting for some of those campaigns for years.
Besides if you can point out a better space shooter that will be out by next year I might be playing that instead but until something better than FS2 comes along I don't have anything to replace it with.
I ditch a game when it ceases to be fun. I don't care how old it is.
Besides why are you bothering to drum up support for your newer version of FS : forever if you don't think anyone will be around in a year to play it?
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Space games without a movie connection dont seem to sell that well. PC games sell dramatically less than console games.
The chances of a good PC combat based space sim making freespace obsolete is not that likely as far as I can see.
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Originally posted by karajorma
...Sticking with working with an existing project, one idea would be to get behind a project that would attract people from outside the community. That means that TBP, Star Wars and even the SG-1 project currently being discussed on VWBB are good ones to get behind.
Even better you can't really spoil the storyline for that kind of mod because all you have to do is recreate something from the show.
Look at the missions from TBP for an example of what I mean. Knowing what was going to happen wouldn't have spoiled that mod much because there aren't any mods in it we haven't already seen and most of the plotline is also well known so there are only little surprises.
Secondly once the mod has been completed many people start making new missions for it themselves. The spin off's are where those of us who contributed to the project get to play something that we don't know the plotline to.
Again I'm using TBP as an example cause if you look at the forums you'll see lots of missions being made by people who are newbies. If we want to keep FS2 alive we need to bring in new blood.
People are crying out for a B5 game. The sad fact is that very few of them know about the existance of TBP and most of those who do can't play it cause they don't have FS2 and the FS2_open is quite at the stage where it supports it seamlessly.
The SG-1 project over at VWBB is at an early stage but would also be another good one to get behind. As far as I know there aren't any space shooters for that universe. I'm sure the fans wouldn't mind playing one.
Finally any community project can't be based in the FS2 universe. That sort of thing won't draw in much new blood. Most of the newbies won't have played FS2 and will have a hard time following the heavily detailed plotline. If the community decides to make something new it has to be set in a universe differnet from FS2 so that we can attract newbies. ...
This is eerily similar to what I posted in the staff forum... :nervous:
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Hell, if you want a community project to get behind TIs always looking for permanant FREDders:p.
More seriously you do have to consider the pitfalls as well as the benefits of a community project. It locks up a lot of talent for one thing, and could result in a massive even drier spot for the year or so its in development when nothing would get released. Equally, getting behind currently existing campaigns would mean you'd be percieved as favouritism - plus I doubt there's a single talented individual not already working on some campaigns - who exactly would be doing this getting behind?
TCs are good to get behind yes, but without ca campaign, they're pretty models, nothing more (and if they're designed to look like familiar models anyway, it's noit exactly something new, is it?)
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I might seem to be pessimistic, but I'm not trying to be - instead I'm being realistic - if you're willing to risk being accused of favouritism, then get behind a few campaigns of your choice, and offer your services (and I'm talking to every single person on the board, as individuals, not some supposed untapped group with a tonne of free time). If not, pimp FS2 on other boards, bring them here. We need them (BTW - does the HOTU release have FRED2? If not, we may want to make it (and the [V] walkthrough) readily available)
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*has applied to be Inferno Fredder a few days ago*
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
You know, this is an awful lot of fine sentiment, but I get the feeling that this isn't exactly the first time someone's stood up and said "I know! We can save the game with a community project!" and everyone got together and said "Yes!" and exactly ****-all happened. Unless something's actually done about it- and by that I mean the admins laying the smack down and deleting any campaign that isn't actively, and heavily, worked on, regardless of lame excuses and screaming by project leaders about how their baby is getting killed, exactly ****-all is about to happen again. And the way this forum's going, I don't see that happening. Everyone's gotten too comfortable doing nothing and then going on about how important it is, and the admins are no longer, ah, junta-like enough to make this **** happen (no offense:D ). Hell, most other forums I woulda gotten a month's ban for the David Copperfield thing- not that I'm recommending it now or ever, I'm just saying that I was surprised when nothing happened then, that Razor's never been properly taught to show respect, that the admins themselves are among the major spammers now. Anarchist that I am, I love what it's done for the forum, but amateur historian and psychologist that I am, I know dictatorships are the way to get people to do ****.
Bing. You beat me to it. The one trend I've picked up since being here is that things here are so relaxed. That's nice for a forum, but not for a production team.
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Originally posted by Black Wolf
More seriously you do have to consider the pitfalls as well as the benefits of a community project. It locks up a lot of talent for one thing, and could result in a massive even drier spot for the year or so its in development when nothing would get released. Equally, getting behind currently existing campaigns would mean you'd be percieved as favouritism - plus I doubt there's a single talented individual not already working on some campaigns - who exactly would be doing this getting behind?
TCs are good to get behind yes, but without ca campaign, they're pretty models, nothing more (and if they're designed to look like familiar models anyway, it's noit exactly something new, is it?)
.
I might seem to be pessimistic, but I'm not trying to be - instead I'm being realistic - if you're willing to risk being accused of favouritism, then get behind a few campaigns of your choice, and offer your services (and I'm talking to every single person on the board, as individuals, not some supposed untapped group with a tonne of free time). If not, pimp FS2 on other boards, bring them here. We need them (BTW - does the HOTU release have FRED2? If not, we may want to make it (and the [V] walkthrough) readily available)
I take your point BW. In fact I don't agree with community projects largely for the reasons you've stated. However it sounds like a lot of people do want to do one.
What I'm basically asking is that instead of trying to get together some new community project which will never help the community from dying we simply stop carping on all the time at the SCP to implement this new function or that new function.
Instead we point them at any project which will draw in new blood and say "Make that work first - I'll wait until they draw in new people to play my mod before I start asking for large amounts of your time"
Anything we do implement in FS_open for B5 or Star Wars will be very useful for the rest of us anyway.
If you want a community project that's what you should do rather than splitting the valuable time of everyone here even further for no large effect.
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Originally posted by karajorma
Besides why are you bothering to drum up support for your newer version of FS : forever if you don't think anyone will be around in a year to play it?
Oh, so it's my project. Sorry, I thought it was the community's. I just started the thread for it, because I'm trying to take the first steps in order to continue the Freespace line. A newer version of FS would draw MORE players, because of the fact that it has a new engine (don't fool yourself, most people only look at screenshots to judge a game, especially the armchair 12-13 year old who just wants to blow stuff up), and more cool-looking ships.
FS is getting old, and it's only getting older. Don't believe me?
Here's an example of an old game that eventually decayed into nothing:
Jane's Fleet Command.
Here's two examples of old games that got more than a couple of MODs, it got a whole community project behind them:
Falcon 4.0
Battlezone 2
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And, on a side note, please excuse me for not being a pessimest, but what I say is true. I've seen it happen elsewhere.
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Originally posted by Hunt Smacker
Considering Descent 3 sold 60,000 copies worldwide (which is pretty dead), and Freespace 2 sold less than 30,000, I'm surprised there is anything going on here at all. In all truth, I would say this is FAR from dead when you look at the statistics !
Freespace 2 sold nearly 100 000 units. 93 000, AFAIK. I've seen the statistics for it on a page posted here about a year ago. (btw, FS1 made only 150 000)
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Interesting discussion here, but I am not sure why this has suddenly become such an urgent issue. Progress as of late seems to be just fine; the SCP has been coming along nicely, the three Freespace-related forums are fairly lively and I see a good bit of activity in some of the project forums too. This is sort of the exam period for the students among us, so the speed of things should pick up noticeably in a week or two.
I don't think that we can realistically have a single big campaign however. One of the reasons for the numerous disparate campaign projects instead of one big community effort is the heavily open-ended storyline of FS2, which causes everyone to have their own ideas on what should happen next. Notice that the source code editing, which does not need any story or such things, has essentially become centered in one community-wide project and we don't have ten major SCPs out there. Having everyone work on one of the existing projects wouldn't work for the reasons already given about which project to choose.
As for my own project, PI, things have been coming along slowly due to less free time for me but it's certainly still progressing forward. I have no intention of giving up on this; I have come much too far to turn back on this now and I enjoy building these missions anyway. One thing I would like to know is an estimate of how many people would play any of these campaigns when released. I for one have played the things released so far a number of times each and will continue that but what about everyone else?
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I know I'll keep playing FS2 until it's so old it won't work on any modern computers
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Righty, bin thinking about this today, and here're some points (mainly for the HLP admins to think about, if you please):
1. Try searching for 'FreeSpace 2'. I doubt you'll find HLP on the first page of results. That could really use fixing, though it might need V's help since most results are the V site
2. HLP needs major, shamless pimpage, in as many places as possible. I'm no intarweb expert, but you admins are - however you do it, you should spam the **** out of the gaming community with HLP adverts
3. The HOTU thing needs a massive great 'Get FS2 for free here!!!!' banner or something, on the HLP mainpage. Make it bloody obvious to any casual surfers that they can get the game engine for free and mod the **** out of it
4. Thinking about it some more, the voices and hi-res art at least should be made available somehow. Perhaps you admins should seriously look in to that P2P idea, or find someone with, say, twin T3 lines who could spare the bandwith
5. All mod websites need to make a similar effort to majorly pimp the HOTU download. Like a huge banner advertising it.
6. The HLP mainpage needs more regular updating. Windrunner says he reports all the news that's PM'ed to him... well to be honest a bit more effort of everyone's part would be handy. Tiara, your Azrael skin should have been a news item. Or the crops of screenshots that have sprung up lately. Every new skin, mission or model should be mentioned on the main page, and reviews would be cool too, like a skin of the week section. And a little bit more info in news items, rather than one line saying 'click here' (note, this is nothing against you personally, Windruner). Even something purely spammy, like a weekly grudgematch, would help to keep HLP ticking over and looking fresh up front. I'm not even going to start about the pic of the week...
[EDIt]
7. Oh yes, just thought of another one - what about that jobs/request board? Not a forum to be spamemd and flamed, but simply a board of adverts. Fancy some FREDding but not sure who's in need of staff? Check the board under 'wanted'. Looking for a texturer? Check the 'for hire' section. Want someone to model a ship you saw in a movie? Place an ad in under 'requests'. You see an ad that interests you, you click it and get a brief description with clear and easy contact details. People can delete their adverts whenever they like (ie when the advert is answered or no longer valid), and ads can be deleted automatically if not renewed by the placer every X number of weeks. I personally think this is a bloody good idea.
K, that'll do for now. More to follow, perhaps...
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
'Tius just up there - go look you lazy buggers
These are some excellent Ideas.
*Goes to add HOTU anner to the TI site*
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I keep pimping FS on the PCGamer forums, but they're not interested, set of bloody Quake-Heads.:mad:
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Originally posted by Black Wolf
These are some excellent Ideas.*
Thanks. I had them while I was at work, instead of concentraing on not bandsawing my fingers off.
Originally posted by Petrarch of the VBB
I keep pimping FS on the PCGamer forums, but they're not interested, set of bloody Quake-Heads.:mad:
There's no hope for some people
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(http://www.westnet.com.au/gweber/images/HOTU.gif)
Will be going up (linked to http://www.the-underdogs.org/game.php?id=4150 ) on the TI site tomorrow. Feel Free to add it to your own campaign sites as well if you want to.
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I shall indeed. And I've added my site to the S:AAB webring as well. Hoo-rah!
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Righty, bin thinking about this today, and here're some points (mainly for the HLP admins to think about, if you please):
1. Try searching for 'FreeSpace 2'. I doubt you'll find HLP on the first page of results. That could really use fixing, though it might need V's help since most results are the V site
2. HLP needs major, shamless pimpage, in as many places as possible. I'm no intarweb expert, but you admins are - however you do it, you should spam the **** out of the gaming community with HLP adverts
3. The HOTU thing needs a massive great 'Get FS2 for free here!!!!' banner or something, on the HLP mainpage. Make it bloody obvious to any casual surfers that they can get the game engine for free and mod the **** out of it
4. Thinking about it some more, the voices and hi-res art at least should be made available somehow. Perhaps you admins should seriously look in to that P2P idea, or find someone with, say, twin T3 lines who could spare the bandwith
5. All mod websites need to make a similar effort to majorly pimp the HOTU download. Like a huge banner advertising it.
6. The HLP mainpage needs more regular updating. Windrunner says he reports all the news that's PM'ed to him... well to be honest a bit more effort of everyone's part would be handy. Tiara, your Azrael skin should have been a news item. Or the crops of screenshots that have sprung up lately. Every new skin, mission or model should be mentioned on the main page, and reviews would be cool too, like a skin of the week section. And a little bit more info in news items, rather than one line saying 'click here' (note, this is nothing against you personally, Windruner). Even something purely spammy, like a weekly grudgematch, would help to keep HLP ticking over and looking fresh up front. I'm not even going to start about the pic of the week...
[EDIt]
7. Oh yes, just thought of another one - what about that jobs/request board? Not a forum to be spamemd and flamed, but simply a board of adverts. Fancy some FREDding but not sure who's in need of staff? Check the board under 'wanted'. Looking for a texturer? Check the 'for hire' section. Want someone to model a ship you saw in a movie? Place an ad in under 'requests'. You see an ad that interests you, you click it and get a brief description with clear and easy contact details. People can delete their adverts whenever they like (ie when the advert is answered or no longer valid), and ads can be deleted automatically if not renewed by the placer every X number of weeks. I personally think this is a bloody good idea.
K, that'll do for now. More to follow, perhaps...
1. Yeah, I know. Sad, ain't it? I emailed V about being included on their fansite list, but haven't gotten a reply. I'm also going to be educating myself on the varagries (sp?) of search-engine optimisation for some work-related stuff, but that's knowledge I'll be able to put to good use on the HLP site, for sure. :)
2. We will probably be putting up ads in the Gamespy ad ring or whatever it's called when we get around to making a good one. :D
3. Very good point. I think I'll actually do that tonight. :)
4. Why can't we make the ISO's available through a Fileplanet/3DDownloads link that can't be found by simply browsing the available downloads (to answer the Liscence Agreement requirement that it can be freely copied for friends and aquaintances, etc etc)?
5. *cracks whip over MOD site webmasters*
6. The issue is known, and we're addressing it. Worry not.
7. Hmm... I was integrating that into the main site a while back, but I think the army interfered or something and I forgot about it. I'll try to get back into getting it to work ASAP. Thanks for the reminder.
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[glow=blue]LiberCapacitas duo quiasemper[/glow]
(FreeSpace 2 Forever)
I am (hopefully) always going to be a fan of FS2. I think it's one of the major space combat sims ever to hit shelves. Not only is the game great but it is also (if you are working with the orginal file by :V: ) easy to make missions/campaigns for. I know of no other game that is so simple to do that with.
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Originally posted by Black Wolf
(http://www.westnet.com.au/gweber/images/HOTU.gif)
Will be going up (linked to http://www.the-underdogs.org/game.php?id=4150 ) on the TI site tomorrow. Feel Free to add it to your own campaign sites as well if you want to.
I'd like to publically thank Black Wolf for the great banner, which now features prominently on the main page. :D
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We need to find some way of reducing the division of effort in the community, without forcing people to stop working... I'd suggest setting a set of recommendations (from the community 'luminaries') about staffing levels for a campaing, i.e.
5 new ships, 20 missions - 3 FREDers, 1 modeller, 1 weapons maker, 1 animator
To try and encourage people to join with existing campaigns, rather than start overly ambitious and ultimately impossible projects - I've learnt this through my work on Reci.
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Yo, admin dudes - how about updating this (http://www.3dap.com/hlp/freespace/community.shtml)?
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Ya know, instead of just advertising the HOTU download- which few people are gonna care about- if we stuck with my old plan and sent them a modified care package including the SCP, the cutscenes captured and compressed in MPEG-4, and maybe some better-resolution ships, you'd get a lot more customers. The SCP is better looking, more versatile, and a lot more attractive to all sorts of gamers- in its current ripped state it'll appeal only to people who already know how cool it is and the abandonware crowd- a big 'un but not a group that seems too interested in our line of work- I'd know, I've spent a long, long time in the HOTU community and none of this sort of **** ever crops up.
It appears you need to change the extension somehow in the code or campaign for it to recognize them, which is why I couldn't do it myself. If someone could just work out a fix for this or something, the actual movie bit is child's play and would take at most a week. The higher-poly ships... aren't there some somewhere? Thought I saw 'em a year back. Anyway, that'd be GREAT PR, because it would both make the game more of an enticing option and show off our, ah, virtuosity and provide impetus to join. Simple little starter before we move on to bigger things, nyet?
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Its not dead.. its just.... slow.. it'll pick up again once one of the big projects releases something significant...
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
The higher-poly ships... aren't there some somewhere?
tried that, it's of no use. currently, a highly detailled ship looks like crap, because the engine can't handle that. Until the clipping is fixed, the details on ships can't be improved, it's that simple.
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We have a week. Go to it.:p
Er... yeah. That's a fix that needs to be done rather soon, anyway. How hard is it?
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Probably would require rewriting most of the graphics engine just to figure out what the hell causes it...
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Uh... crap?
Well, that can come in a later release, anyway. Important thing is, if it's an SCP-modified version of Freespace up at HOTU, then it's props to us on the page and a potential viewing of about 100,000 people a year. If 5% of those people see FreeSpace, 10% of those come through to here (a fair guess, since aside from FSW we're basically the only big fansite in town), and a quarter of those join us and are any good... ****, I need a calculator. It's a fair bit more than we're getting now, I'll tell you that.
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Repeating Question, but is there any chance that we're going t be able to find a host who can set up downloads of the magniude we'd need to make Voice actig and Hi Res stuff available? I've been pimping the HOTU release (well, have pimped - one forum so far :)) and come up with these as the major complaints...If there's any chance we could get these files out there, 'twould be most cool.
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Actually I'm aware of someone willing to host all three FS2 CD's as ISO who didn't want to post the link here because it would be regarded as warez.
If the general opinion is moving towards not caring about that then I'll say who it was.
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I thought there was legal problems not with the game itself, but with the cutscenes. Something to do with the mve player I believe. Putting them into a better format would make more sense anyhow, they take up a lot of disc space.
Does anyone know the exact legality of releasing FS? Can we legally put up the entire three CDs for download, or can we only spread parts? I can't condone illegally putting it up for download, because of my position.
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If the problem is only with the cutscenes then we could post everything but together with a copy of FS2_open. That should be more than enough to get the newbies into the game.
That said HotU has had the last 3 cutscenes up in their rip for months now and nobody seems to care.
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I officially offer my voice acting to any campaign that currently needs it. This thread is scary. Thank you, goodnight.
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Actually I'm aware of someone willing to host all three FS2 CD's as ISO who didn't want to post the link here because it would be regarded as warez.
i wonder who that could be :cool:
Originally posted by Sandwich
1. Yeah, I know. Sad, ain't it? I emailed V about being included on their fansite list, but haven't gotten a reply. I'm also going to be educating myself on the varagries (sp?) of search-engine optimisation for some work-related stuff, but that's knowledge I'll be able to put to good use on the HLP site, for sure. :)
i'll educate you right now
the first thing you can start by doing is putting some "Keywords" in the main page of HLP, the forums main page, etc.
If you look at other big sites (i.e. Volitionwatch, Interplay, and even massive sites, such as Yahoo, MSN, Ebay, Gamespy, etc.) you'll notice (view the source) at the top of (most) of their pages they have the TITLE, BODY, HEAD, etc. and META tags, ... one META function is the "KEYWORD" tag, another, the "DESCRIPTION" tag. Here's how they work.
Ex:
{META TYPE="KEYWORD" CONTENT="HLP, HARD, LIGHT, FREESPACE, FREESPACE 2, MODDING, INTERPLAY, VOLITION"}
{META TYPE="DESCRIPTION" CONTENT="HLP is the biggest Freespace Modding Community in the world, sporting over 20 user-made campaigns and hundreds of FS Mods"}
Remember, they're to be placed between the HEAD tags at the beginning of the HTML document.
I'm not sure exactly how they work... never got into the theory of them, but i'm pretty sure (it's my best guess) that search engine spiders, when they visit a site, take note of the META keyword and description tags, and when someone types in something in a search engine, it will bring up whatever closely matches those keywords.
See, has it ever happened to you when you search for something, and it comes up with the site URL, and beneath that it has like 25 words of sentences that come from random parts of the page? wouldn't it be nice to be able to designate your description instead of the search engine randomly finding it? that's what the description tag is for. keyword is what the engine looks for though.
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Originally posted by Shrike
I can't condone illegally putting it up for download, because of my position.
you can't, but i can.
here's my thoughts:
If Volition released the SOURCE CODE to the game, that's the same as actually making a game freeware right? And Freeware can be distributed in any form, as long as (correct me on this) credit is given to the correct author (i.e. you can backedit it, etc.)
i think it would be cool to give people the URL to the 3 FS2 CDs.
couldn't they be uploaded to FilePlanet though? even better, why doesn't someone hosted on HLP upload the CD to one of their folders, and someone else upload the second CD, and another person upload the 3rd CD, so that 3DAP won't be suspicious when they see 2 GB in one person's folder. 700 MB is a lot less conspicuous, don't you think? :D
JUST KIDDING JUST KIDDING JUST KIDDING *shocked* DON"T BAN ME I WAS JUST KIDDING!
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But the problem, as I remember it, was not with FS itself, but the associated media. It would be neat to have the entire thing up for download, but we'd really have to get ahold of one of the [V] guys and see if they can clarify the situation. Things might have changed vis a vis the legality of it all... but I'd prefer to avoid anything that might draw flak.
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Originally posted by Shrike
But the problem, as I remember it, was not with FS itself, but the associated media. It would be neat to have the entire thing up for download, but we'd really have to get ahold of one of the [V] guys and see if they can clarify the situation. Things might have changed vis a vis the legality of it all... but I'd prefer to avoid anything that might draw flak.
yeah i didn't think of that though.
uhmmmmm... what if someone *hehehe* uploads it, and everyone in the community keeps it on the low-key... and if someone wants it, they can contact someone *hehehe* and that someone can give them a temporary URL to the three ISOs. however, if you're talking about making it PUBLICLY available, like, advertised, then i doubt you'd like that, and i doubt i would like all the bandwidth :(.
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Originally posted by Stealth
yeah i didn't think of that though.
uhmmmmm... what if someone *hehehe* uploads it, and everyone in the community keeps it on the low-key... and if someone wants it, they can contact someone *hehehe* and that someone can give them a temporary URL to the three ISOs. however, if you're talking about making it PUBLICLY available, like, advertised, then i doubt you'd like that, and i doubt i would like all the bandwidth :(.
[color=66ff00]You see if we could actually encode those files in another format and have FS run them as normal, we could simply upload them to Fileplanet for DL completely legally as I understand it...
[/color]
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Originally posted by Stealth
If Volition released the SOURCE CODE to the game, that's the same as actually making a game freeware right? And Freeware can be distributed in any form, as long as (correct me on this) credit is given to the correct author (i.e. you can backedit it, etc.)
It's not really the same thing. Although some companies make the entire game freeware when they release the code some don't. One reason for this is so as to increase the sales of the game to other platforms.
If FS2 had been ported to Linux, AmigaOS, MacOS etc. people on those platforms would have bought the PC version of the game so as to play it on their own OS.
I doubt that this was the reason for releasing the source code to FS2 (since the game is pretty much impossible to find anyway) but it has had an effect previously with games like Quake, Hexen and Descent.
So for that reason you can't automatically assume the rest of the game is also freeware just cause the source is released.
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Funny how people like talk about all this ****, but when the simple option entails doing something here and now, it's too complex.
Listen guys, we don't need to host the voice acting, ISO, or any of that ****- UD will take care of it if we just get the ****ing size down a little. I already talked her into letting in the really important cutscenes- she wants to have as complete a game as possible, she just doesn't want to have to sacrifice a gig of space and the accompanying bandwidth cost to do it. Trimming the movies heavily will go a long way towards that- long enough that we'll be able to fit in the voice file on the HOTU main site. That means a lot more people looking at it, since anyone who downloads it from an HLP site will, necessarily, already know all about Freespace and HLP and thus almost invariably will have it. There's just no point. We don't have the exposure or the audience, and in fact to do what y'all are talking about to legalize it basically entails doing just the same work anyway.
So, uh, yeah. Anyone into actually doing some work and figuring out what's up with the file tag thing? Hell, I'll videocapture the movies myself, already offered to, I just need someone a little more familiar with the workings of the game to take a look and see what's what. You can talk all year, it won't get any more likely to happen, or someone can spend five seconds, I'll tinker it up, package it, and it'll be on the HOTU main site in a month.
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good job Stryke.
i saw your name on the under dogs "special thanks to" thing... really impressed man. thanks a lot :yes:
EDIT: i was thinking... your goal is to get the total file size down to less than a GB, right? now i'm thinking hmmm... it's 3 semi-full CDs, which adds up to almost 2 GB. without the movies, you're probably looking at around 1.2 or 1.3 GB. if you need any help finding and removing files yet still allowing the game to run with all features (except of course cutscenes) let me know, i'm willing to help with that.
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I think right now the hi-res textures and all that are gonna stay out, I figure if we just get the voices packed in there it'll be enough.
The cap she gave me initially was 250MB. The file's closer to 220- and most of that's movie- some 160MB for the three, according to the copy I kept here. The voice VP file is 169MB. If we compress the movies by about 80% (about what I get from MPEG-4 compression, though sound might affect that- in which case we can still shrink 'em down a bit by reducing the resolution somewhat), and put in stripped-down versions of the sound effects... hell, I'm no mathematician, but it'll be within a close shave of 250MB.
If you want, we can then offer an addon pack of all the nonessential stuff- the hires texes, animated techroom, and some toys that work with the SCP modifications but naturally don't get face time in the original campaign- which UD will probably be happy to link to, and which can be hosted relatively painlessly from here. Most of that stuff is optional- you don't lose any of the atmosphere of FreeSpace by not having it, even though it's nice. Same can't necessarily be said of the movies and voices (do you really want to deprive everyone of the experience of falling out of their seat in In the Lion's Den?), so I want to get those in.
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AFAIK, the voice and music files in the *ahem* unorthodox FS2 version I first got (before I bought the legal one), were MP3'd, making a 30 kb voice file about 4 kb in size. Idea, no?
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A lot of stuff to compress (hundreds of sounds as opposed to eight movies), but if anyone can do batch compression that'd be very cool.
or if you still have your VP from that one.
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I think I have that compressor that came with the package around here somewhere. A little DOS utility. Want it?
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Er... sure. It do batching, or do I have to do 'em all individually?
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'course batching.
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Aight then. [email protected] .
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:blah:
In the HOTU version there are movies as well. The end scenes. and they are still in .mve format. I think that could prove that they are legal.
(Forgive me if this point has been brought up before)
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"forgives Tiara"
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Alright, so Peanuts and Stryke have the sound issue in hand. Has anyone converted the MVEs to AVI? I hear there is some interesting software about that some people have...
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Originally posted by Venom
"forgives Tiara"
Weakling :p
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Ses: CAMstudio does fine, you just need to be able to cut the opening loading bit off. I was gonna do that, but if anyone else wants to handle it, it's freeware and pretty simple to use.
Tiara: Depends how generously you take the law. Some 85% of the copyrights on games HOTU has for free are still valid, so they're all technically illegal. However, generally either the company doesn't care or they're in no position to complain about anything, being defunct, or else they send off a letter to UD and she takes it down.
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yeah. if you wanted to have an "addon" pack, i'd be willing to host it for you, the lower the filesize the better.
i can do the movies if you want
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Originally posted by Tiara
Weakling :p
ah lala...
as they say:
"feed the dog, it will crap"
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Originally posted by Shrike
I thought there was legal problems not with the game itself, but with the cutscenes. Something to do with the mve player I believe. Putting them into a better format would make more sense anyhow, they take up a lot of disc space.
Does anyone know the exact legality of releasing FS? Can we legally put up the entire three CDs for download, or can we only spread parts? I can't condone illegally putting it up for download, because of my position.
Have you forgotten the clause in the Liscence Agreement about being (and I'm writing this from memory) "free to make copies of the SOFTWARE for friends and aquaintances on a no-profit, non-commercial basis"? I'm trying to verify this with DaveB ATM, but I don't think anyone can sue us for providing "internal" links (ones that can only be handed out to "friends and aquaintances" (read: forumites). And if Inteplay goes ballistic and wants to go after us, we show them the clause, say "this is why we did this", and take the files down if they insist. But if we keep the links non-publicized, I doubt they'd be discovered for by Interplay a very long time.
So yes, it's legal until proven otherwise/revoked.
Originally posted by Stealth
i'll educate you right now
the first thing you can start by doing is putting some "Keywords" in the main page of HLP, the forums main page, etc.
If you look at other big sites (i.e. Volitionwatch, Interplay, and even massive sites, such as Yahoo, MSN, Ebay, Gamespy, etc.) you'll notice (view the source) at the top of (most) of their pages they have the TITLE, BODY, HEAD, etc. and META tags, ... one META function is the "KEYWORD" tag, another, the "DESCRIPTION" tag. Here's how they work.
Ex:
{META TYPE="KEYWORD" CONTENT="HLP, HARD, LIGHT, FREESPACE, FREESPACE 2, MODDING, INTERPLAY, VOLITION"}
{META TYPE="DESCRIPTION" CONTENT="HLP is the biggest Freespace Modding Community in the world, sporting over 20 user-made campaigns and hundreds of FS Mods"}
Remember, they're to be placed between the HEAD tags at the beginning of the HTML document.
I'm not sure exactly how they work... never got into the theory of them, but i'm pretty sure (it's my best guess) that search engine spiders, when they visit a site, take note of the META keyword and description tags, and when someone types in something in a search engine, it will bring up whatever closely matches those keywords.
See, has it ever happened to you when you search for something, and it comes up with the site URL, and beneath that it has like 25 words of sentences that come from random parts of the page? wouldn't it be nice to be able to designate your description instead of the search engine randomly finding it? that's what the description tag is for. keyword is what the engine looks for though.
Uhh... hate to break it to ya, but the META Keywords are not used anymore for search rankings - they haven't been for years nw, ever since they started to be abused. The description META tag, however, is sometimes what the search engine displays as a summary of a page in a list of search results.
And I'm not trying to brag, but I know quite a bit more about this stuff than you seem to think I do. Thanks for the helpful reply, anyway. ;)
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Originally posted by Sandwich
Uhh... hate to break it to ya, but the META Keywords are not used anymore for search rankings - they haven't been for years nw, ever since they started to be abused. The description META tag, however, is sometimes what the search engine displays as a summary of a page in a list of search results.
And I'm not trying to brag, but I know quite a bit more about this stuff than you seem to think I do. Thanks for the helpful reply, anyway. ;)
really? wow, never knew that. i knew they were abused, but i thought they still used them to an extent
i know, the "tutorial" wasn't directed primarily at you ;) but with all people (diamondgeezer, etc.) making webpages suddenly, i thought that'd help them :D
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since we're talking about shortening or getting rid of some of the movies, thought this might help. now Shrike, don't get mad, cause this program looks legal in what it does and is intended to do. also, most of what we're discussing at the moment is not quite legal.
http://www.19.5degs.com/fmv12.php?source=195
This might be the best way to extract the actual movies, although other programs, like what Stryke mentioned, should be used to cut them down
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Originally posted by Stealth
i know, the "tutorial" wasn't directed primarily at you ;) but with all people (diamondgeezer, etc.) making webpages suddenly, i thought that'd help them :D
By website do mean www.geezersoft.co.uk?
[EDIT] You --> By (why the hell I put 'you' in the first place I have no idea...)
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
You website do mean www.geezersoft.co.uk?
Oh, the pain.... ;)
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Stealth: Been there, done that. Somehow, even the proper FS movie extractor didn't cut it. Which is where video screen capture comes in.
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Sarnie: I hope that wasn't a jab at either Johnny Cash or my two thousand dollar a year domain name...
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Johnny Cash?!
Where?
*sings*"I fell in to a burning ring of fire......
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Bob?
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It says so in plain english, Stryke
[EDIt] Go hitcounter, go!
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Sarnie: I hope that wasn't a jab at either Johnny Cash or my two thousand dollar a year domain name...
Your website is 50% adverts.
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See, people keep telling me that, but all I ever get is a banner at the top of each frame (which rarely loads) and one popup. Unless you mean the banner for the FS2 download as well, in which case :wtf:...
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The right frame was covered in a Angelfire advert before, its gone now though.
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Could you replace that with Ghost Riders in the Sky?
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Originally posted by Zeronet
The right frame was covered in a Angelfire advert before, its gone now though.
Oh yes, that. See, if the frame doesn't load quick enough you see an Angelfire page instead. A few taps of F5 should sort it out a treat :nod:
And Petrarch - no. Raymond T Butts went down that black hole listening to Walk The Line, so that's what goes on the page. Hoo-rah!
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Sarnie: I hope that wasn't a jab at either Johnny Cash or my two thousand dollar a year domain name...
No, t'was my eyes crying out for mercy in the face of evil angelfire 404 not found pages in frames! :p
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Ah, but I have outwitted you via the post above yours. :ha:
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Ah, but I have outwitted you via the post above yours. :ha:
True. :p You need to fix the first link to refer to the frame, as well as give it a dark BG for the sake of readability and sanity. :p
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are YOU talking about sanity???? :eek2:
"runs"
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Originally posted by Unknown Target
FS2 is simply not interseting to play anymore.
For instance, right now, I'm going to play a game. It will be a space combat game. However, rather than going to play FS2, I'm going to go play Macross VFX-2 on my Playstation emulator (srry if that stuff isn't allowed around here). Why? Because VFX2 offers something interesting. You get to transform, do ground missions, against AI that is at least somewhat of a challenge (even if you yourself is hampered by the game). FS2 is simply shoot, shoot, shoot, no actual skill required. All you have to do is aim at the lead reticle. There's no fancy manuevering, besides simply rotating on a dime so you can put your guns on target.
Sounds to me like there is a lot of uninspired or unimaginative FREDers ...
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Ayuh. I haven't played a mission without bells and whistles in a year.
'Course, it could stand to be expanded a little (as in I-War), but it's far more than just shooting if you've got or are a competent FREDer.
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Originally posted by Unknown Target
Think of it this way: will you bother to play this game in another year? With all the new games coming out, will a new campaign for a 5-year-old game really pull you back in?
Let's see.
How many games have I played during the last 12 months?
Oh... about 15 or so. Off the top of my head: Quake 3, NOLF 2, Half Life, Jedi Knight, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Betrayal at Krondor, Baldur's Gate 2, Diablo II, Emperor: Battle for Dune, Raven Shield, Freelancer, Allied Assault.
Excellent games, all of them.
Now, why, in the name of Arnold Schwarzhenegger's left biceps, have I come back and played through the FS 1&2 main campaigns in every 5-6 months or so.
Even worse, I've actually modded **** for that game. I've released a frickin' big campaign! :eek2: Unbelievable! I must be mad!
Or, I could just be reliving the sense of awe I caught from the excellent storyline, wonderful voice acting (come on, not even NOLF can beat Robert Loggia's ol' gaffer.), various missions, the one moment in gaming history that actually had me jumping in my chair and yelling "WHAT THE HOLLY ****!" Face it, UT, Freespace is the Half-Life of Space combat sims. It may be old, but it's still new.
And so the AI is laughable, the graphics are dated, and... okay, so there's no 'and'.
Half-Life graphics were laughable even when it was released. In Morrowind every person says "Say what you want, but make it quick" when I'm passing them. NOLF 2 has ridiculously short cut-scenes (one thing I miss from the original game - character development. You don't get much of that in a game). MOHAA is scripted heavier than a B5 episode. Diablo II's single player is non-existant. Freelancer is just plain average. Daggerfall is well... old. But they're all excellent games, and I still play them.
And I play freespace.
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I have read every single reply on this thread and I have come to only one conclusion: People are starting to wake up. It is just a game. A diversion from the real world around us. I stopped caring about BWO months ago. I stopped playing FS2 soon after that. Like the old Mario games, FS has been played to death. The game has simply lost its fun and will die a slow and dis-honourable death.
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Originally posted by killadonuts
I stopped caring about BWO months ago. I stopped playing FS2 soon after that. Like the old Mario games, FS has been played to death. The game has simply lost its fun and will die a slow and dis-honourable death.
Why? We're releasing this summer...
:p
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And in other news today, I crap pure 14k gold!
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Originally posted by killadonuts
I have read every single reply on this thread and I have come to only one conclusion: People are starting to wake up. It is just a game. A diversion from the real world around us. I stopped caring about BWO months ago. I stopped playing FS2 soon after that. Like the old Mario games, FS has been played to death. The game has simply lost its fun and will die a slow and dis-honourable death.
Meh, I still play Final Fantasy 1 released 1990 and still like it. It even has a fanbase as large as HLP. Age means exactly **** when you are talking about a game. Freespace is unique, and it will probably always be unique unless someone gets a huge friggin' brainfart and comes up with a new superb space combat sim.
Hell, I even take out my old gameboy game "Pong" to kill time. And I even like it (for 10 minutes) :p
Ow, and I still like Mario :D
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Every one likes Mario. And nuff respect for owning a NES.
Killdonuts: if that's your opinion about FS2, why are you still here?
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indeed.. hell i play Wolf3d for nostalgia's sake...;) (full version too, all 60 levels)
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Every one likes Mario. And nuff respect for owning a NES.
no, as some people can't stand plateform games :p ( as myself, for exemple :p )
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Originally posted by Tiara
Meh, I still play Final Fantasy 1 released 1990 and still like it. It even has a fanbase as large as HLP. Age means exactly **** when you are talking about a game. Freespace is unique, and it will probably always be unique unless someone gets a huge friggin' brainfart and comes up with a new superb space combat sim.
Couldn´t have said it better myself.
Again, I point out: Half-Life is two years older than FS2, and it's the third best-selling game in the world. Because it's a damn good game.
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Killdonuts: if that's your opinion about FS2, why are you still here?
I dunno, I still check back often to see what is new. I am not saying the FS is a bad game now. I'm just saying that it's not getting any younger. One of these days I will play it again. I haven't shot down my last shivan yet. :)
Likewise, I haven't stomped my last goomba or koopa shell either :D ;)
My point is that I consider FS in the same category as these classics. Descent was in this list before that and I can still see myself playing that. Except the damn computer is too fast for the old ones now :blah: . I can only play D3.
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
And in other news today, I crap pure 14k gold!
*goes to redirect flow of Stryke's toilet*
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
Why? We're releasing this summer...
:p
That's what you people told us LAST year :ha:
Come on now :doubt:
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Originally posted by killadonuts
My point is that I consider FS in the same category as these classics. Descent was in this list before that and I can still see myself playing that. Except the damn computer is too fast for the old ones now :blah: . I can only play D3.
:wtf:
I have a AMD3000+ and all games run fine here. All Descent games, older games etc. Meh :p
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Originally posted by killadonuts
That's what you people told us LAST year :ha:
Come on now :doubt:
Yes, but I wasn't working for them last year. :ha:
Really, as big fan of them who decided to help get it out this summer, they are pretty close to release. The only thing I can see that may hold them up is Voice Acting.
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The only thing I can see that may hold them up is Voice Acting
SAVAGE. If they want I can hook them up with those guys myself. I got 90+ excellent lines from one dude in less than two weeks (including rerecordings and editing.)
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The original Descent runs way too fast for me (the rate at which your ship "bounces" while floating makes it look like an earthquake :p) but there is a 3dfx version of that which works perfectly. Descent 2 goes at the same speed as D1 on 320x200 but works great on 640x480; in fact, I just finished playing through all the main missions, the addon missions and some of the user-made expansions for this about a week ago.
By the way, on the topic of old games, I just completed Beneath a Steel Sky (without any walkthroughs ;7); it had an excellent story and a good bit of humor but the ending seemed somewhat rushed.
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Actually, IIRC, ICe has already talked to them or been refered :)
(to tell the truth, I forgot that we had them for a sec, but I was genearlly reffering to dealing with voices n' **** also. Either way, hopefully we can have it out Late summer/ Fall)
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
.....hopefully we can have it out Late summer/ Fall)
Yeah, of what year? :p
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696.
Seriously, if you're that goddamn skeptical, why not get out and do something productive and help out?
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Originally posted by Venom
are YOU talking about sanity???? :eek2:
"runs"
:wtf:
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it took 17 years to confirm it, but FS2 is indeed confirmed dead...
...after we get those new Orion and Demon models
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Haven't used this beam in a while, and this certainly calls for it:
:necro:
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(http://www.quickmeme.com/img/2a/2a7ca037f21dd8b3f14aff352a332a2ba6b8f50f83a4cc28643dabe7bdc57b82.jpg)
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spart you are hereby the forum's honorary necrodancer
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That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.
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checking at the BWO forum at the VWBB kindda confirms what I believe. Even if the guys there say it's done soon, where is the enthousiasm people were showing at the begining?
:D
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Sure shows how much the forum climate's changed over the past almost 2 decades.
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It has changed?
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Definitely.
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*Guy on page 3 talking about "forced labour" and cancelling solo projects in favour of larger community projects.*
*People agreeing with him*
:wtf:
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They were not enlightened times.
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Finally any community project can't be based in the FS2 universe.
*Laughs in Blue Planet, Between the Ashes, ST:R, Inferno, Derelict. . . .
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Derelict was already released for 3 years or so when the topic was started.
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*Guy on page 3 talking about "forced labour" and cancelling solo projects in favour of larger community projects.*
*People agreeing with him*
:wtf:
Ah yes, let's all dump our own aspirations and motivations and creativity just to bring out the big content for the players because modders are just work slaves.
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The interesting thing about old discussions such as the one we're posting in right now is the fact that - judging from what I see here - people used to have this sort of obsession for delivering a mod that was supposed to serve as a substitute to FS3.
By the time I joined this community (May 10th, 2006), forum climate had changed completely. Right now, it's even further away from these obsessions.
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Finally any community project can't be based in the FS2 universe.
*Laughs in Blue Planet, Between the Ashes, ST:R, Inferno, Derelict. . . .
None of those are a community project. The idea of a community project was to get everybody to work on the same project together. The fact that there are so many good FS2 campaigns is actually pretty much what I'd argued FOR, not AGAINST.
Besides if you can point out a better space shooter that will be out by next year I might be playing that instead but until something better than FS2 comes along I don't have anything to replace it with.
I am both happy and disappointed that this statement is just as true now as it was when I said it in 2003.
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The interesting thing about old discussions such as the one we're posting in right now is the fact that - judging from what I see here - people used to have this sort of obsession for delivering a mod that was supposed to serve as a substitute to FS3.
By the time I joined this community (May 10th, 2006), forum climate had changed completely. Right now, it's even further away from these obsessions.
These sort of campaigns and mods would probably exist as isolated solo projects, since they don't seem to garner as much traction in the community as they used to.
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To be honest I'm glad that attitude seems to have finally gone away. I love the way the community has basically decided that all visions of a post-Capella campaign are equally valid and ruthlessly stomp out any claims that some (such as Blue Planet) should be thought of as being the community's vision of what FS3 would be like.
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Old as this thread may be, I find the question humorous. FS2 isn't an MMO or anything; it's one those games that's supposed to die out. The release of the source code along with expansive modding tools and the emergence of a dedicated community kept it alive well later than is normal for these types of game.
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Old as this thread may be, I find the question humorous. FS2 isn't an MMO or anything; it's one those games that's supposed to die out. The release of the source code along with expansive modding tools and the emergence of a dedicated community kept it alive well later than is normal for these types of game.
I find the idea of Freespace being dead especially humorous in light of the fact that we have all of the recent graphics upgrades as well as Mjn's new and improved versions of almost ALL the cutscenes in both FS1 and FS2. My own opinion (FWIW) is that Freespace is not dead at all but is in fact experiencing a revival of sorts. Hell, it may be a revival appreciated only by a small group of longtime Freespace fans, but it's a whole hell of a lot more than anyone would have gotten if Freespace was just an ordinary space sim that never got its source code released or never had a modding community.
I just had a conversation with an old friend of mine who played Freespace with me back in 1998 and 1999 and told him about the recent developments here, especially the new MediaVPs and Mjn's new cutscenes. He hasn't played the game in years, but he did seem intrigued enough to check out the stuff here soon. I can't wait to point out my particular easter eggs in the new Colossus cutscene to him. :D
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Old as this thread may be, I find the question humorous. FS2 isn't an MMO or anything; it's one those games that's supposed to die out. The release of the source code along with expansive modding tools and the emergence of a dedicated community kept it alive well later than is normal for these types of game.
I find the idea of Freespace being dead especially humorous in light of the fact that we have all of the recent graphics upgrades as well as Mjn's new and improved versions of almost ALL the cutscenes in both FS1 and FS2. My own opinion (FWIW) is that Freespace is not dead at all but is in fact experiencing a revival of sorts. Hell, it may be a revival appreciated only by a small group of longtime Freespace fans, but it's a whole hell of a lot more than anyone would have gotten if Freespace was just an ordinary space sim that never got its source code released or never had a modding community.
I just had a conversation with an old friend of mine who played Freespace with me back in 1998 and 1999 and told him about the recent developments here, especially the new MediaVPs and Mjn's new cutscenes. He hasn't played the game in years, but he did seem intrigued enough to check out the stuff here soon. I can't wait to point out my particular easter eggs in the new Colossus cutscene to him. :D
That's a good point, and also something (I think) true of most any game released with modding capabilities. Communities for these games by and large remain extant to some degree, long after native development has ceased. Other examples I can point to would be Skyrim and... that's about all I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more.
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I think FS was actually closer to dying 10-15 years ago than it is today. At the time this thread was created, I think we had lots of campaigns hosted here but barely anything had been actually released, while today there are tons of campaigns and content people have made. There are more media articles on FS and its community in the last few years than I've ever seen in past, like this (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiYno3g0LnrAhUsTt8KHe_TDnoQFjAAegQICBAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.engadget.com%2F2020-03-04-freespace-2-knossos-mods-irl.html&usg=AOvVaw1cpJID9zxhAkcLNSpaVapb) and this (https://www.kotaku.com.au/2019/09/get-freespace-2-for-free-then-get-these-mods/), and there seems to be increased interest in old games in general with a lot of remasters coming out. FS also has no modern successor that improves upon it in every way, unlike many other games of that era, which has kept up interest in the game.
The interesting thing about old discussions such as the one we're posting in right now is the fact that - judging from what I see here - people used to have this sort of obsession for delivering a mod that was supposed to serve as a substitute to FS3.
We all had our own ideas of how the FS story was supposed to continue. The game was fairly easy to mod and came out right around the time when internet forums were first becoming popular and led to communities built around specific games. The story was captivating back then but had a cliffhanger ending, which sparked a lot of discussion on here (and the VBB before it) that inspired people to create whatever vision they had in mind.