Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: ##UnknownPlayer## on May 05, 2002, 01:13:07 am
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Has anyone tried messing around with changing things on the HUD in the source code yet? Much as I like the HUD in FS2, I still think its a little too computer game like.
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The only things I would like to say changed in the hud would be to have the escort ship list box larger and of course, a spherical "orb" radar. ;)
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Why would you want an orb radar? I prefered the Freespace radar much more than the IW2 orb...
It'd be nice to have a few things in the HUD added though... I wonder if you can add a rear-view mirror ;)
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I'm not sure if that is posable, but we may be able to add a rear veiw mirror
and, yes, I do beleve hell has frozen over, as I, Bobboau, just corected someone elses spelling
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Don't you mean "corrected"? ;)
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I somehow find that the orb system gives a better view of the surroundings in three dimensions, but I can think of some improvements to that as well. ;)
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I don't know, it does that I'll grant you - but when you've got 50 odd ships around you it can get somewhat hectic (especially trying to work out what's infront/behind you since the stalks to show the ships are all in more or less the same direction).
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Originally posted by BobboauI'm not sure if that is posable, but we may be able to add a rear veiw mirror
and, yes, I do beleve hell has frozen over, as I, Bobboau, just corected someone elses spelling
o the irony, btw i c youve change that sig pic thunder :D, i love a bit of irony ;);7
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i find the starwars radar style (with the front and rear radar) much more intuitive caompared to the wing commander style (only one radar for both rear and front), but maybe its only because i'm more used to it:)
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Originally posted by KARMA
i find the starwars radar style (with the front and rear radar) much more intuitive caompared to the wing commander style (only one radar for both rear and front), but maybe its only because i'm more used to it:)
well, I kindda like those too, but they're too small. make them bigger, and with two of them, they'll eat all the place :p
I think the WC way is the clearest and most efficient way.
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Hmm...Well what I'm thinking of (at least initially) is for a start adding in some computer-voices to alert you of things. My current idea's are to add some that alert you to things like ships targeting and locking on to you, as well as perhaps giving a missile range warning.
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I think Freespace radar is just fine. :)
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keep the current radar, an orb would just make it even more messy and thus, even more confusing. The X-Wing and TIE fighter radar setup takes up too much room. The current FS2 one works best in my opinion because of its simplicity. A longer escort list would be nice though.
And why would you want to have computer voices when you already have clean and clear hud indicators.
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Originally posted by LtNarol
keep the current radar, an orb would just make it even more messy and thus, even more confusing. The X-Wing and TIE fighter radar setup takes up too much room. The current FS2 one works best in my opinion because of its simplicity. A longer escort list would be nice though.
And why would you want to have computer voices when you already have clean and clear hud indicators.
also, being able to see more than 2 primary and 3 secondary entries.
Oh, and I'd prefer the target window to show a wireframe of the targetted ship's main lod, raher than a mapped lod 1
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The HUD is just plain and simple fine the way it is.
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Wait a minute...
Why do you need to alter the program to change the HUD?
Cant you just edit some of the files in one of the VPs?
Unless your talking about changing the behavior
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Originally posted by killadonuts
Unless your talking about changing the behavior
Yes.
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Originally posted by venom2506
Oh, and I'd prefer the target window to show a wireframe of the targetted ship's main lod, raher than a mapped lod 1
Yes! :)
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Originally posted by venom2506
also, being able to see more than 2 primary and 3 secondary entries.
Oh, and I'd prefer the target window to show a wireframe of the targetted ship's main lod, raher than a mapped lod 1
Have it toggleable :nod:
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Originally posted by venom2506
also, being able to see more than 2 primary and 3 secondary entries.
:yes: Most definitely! I wanna fly the Seraphim and be able to use all the guns!
Although primary combinations will need an overhaul. So instead of the pattern 1, 2, 1&2, we'd need something like 1, 2, 3, 1&2, 1&3, 2&3, all. How much trouble will that be to integrate?
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Have it toggleable :nod
This is one of the main strengths of the FS/FS2 interface; just about everything can be customized to one's liking. Whenever we have a slight disagreement on something like this, we could just implement both systems and let the user choose what they want. I personally like the wireframe idea too. :) (how about a lit wireframe with some brightness added in?)
I slightly prefer the 3D spherical "orb" radar (although I haven't yet seen a game that uses the idea to its full potential; there are some improvements I could think of with that), but the FS one works very well too. :nod:
A longer escort list would be nice though.
This is the only thing I would really, really like to see changed; the escort list is simply invaluable (IMHO) during many types of missions, and the three-ship limit tends to get in the way.
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How about that you can have any number of ships in the escort list, but it brings their name to the top when their status changes (i.e. they get attacked). And if more than three ships are getting hammered, it scrolls through the list of vessels taking fire. A simple idea, no?
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i strongly dispise the way V set up the primary toggling, my suggestion: set up 4 keys (changeable in the options under weapons) so that when one is pressed, the first weapon is activated, if pressed again, it becomes inactive, if the second key is pressed, the second is activated, again it is deactivated, and so on. Another key will just cycle forward and select all banks after one complete cycle. Using this key/button on joystick after certain banks are selected automatically takes you to the begining of the cycle.
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This would be EXCELLENT! I would love to see that feature for primary, especially with four primary and secondary gun capability. :nod::nod::nod::nod::nod::nod::nod:
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i dont know if that would work so well with the secondaries, thinking of double fire, different lock times, different properties, doing the same can become a mess; but hey, if someone has a solution, great.
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That's a rather easily solved problem; you simply have extra aspect trackers for longer lock-time missiles, and only what's locked on will fire when you hit the button/pull the trigger; that's how the later Wing Commander games did it.
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Originally posted by CP5670
I slightly prefer the 3D spherical "orb" radar (although I haven't yet seen a game that uses the idea to its full potential; there are some improvements I could think of with that), but the FS one works very well too. :nod:
I happen to like the FS radar (and dislike the X-Wing front/back radars), but that's my opinion.
I can't picture a "spherical" radar -- I've seen several references to it, apparently some other games use this. Could someone post a picture of this in action (a partial screenshot would be OK, just showing the radar part.)
thx
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The G-Police radar was quite good.
Maybe something in the loadout screen to select radar type?
If you were flying an AWACS for example, you expect it's radar to be way better than a fighters.
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how about something diferent, like a 3d cube showing a low detail wireframe of all ships within a certan range. everything woulds be scaled down drasticly so you can see you in the center and all ships within 2000m, 10000m, or scaled to the farthest ship, rendered relitive to you useing a LOD2 wireframe.
all this rendering withing the space currently held by the current radar space
I have no idea how to do this though
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Like a starfury but better?
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too messy in thick dogfights if you ask me
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Even on low LOD I think bob's radar idea could also slow down the system quite a bit especially on low spec machines.
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and anyway, the range of the radar would make the fighters look like dots anyway.
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I didn't care all that much for the X-Wing games' radar system, but I absolutely loved the 3D map! If we could somehow add a 3D map like that to Freespace, and then integrate wignmen commands and such to it, it would increase the tactical aspect of battles in FS immensely.
Just imagine, you're in the middle of a tough dogfight. You call for reinforcments, and just as they warp in, an enemy capship enters the area as well. Normally, you wouldn't have the time to figure out what wing is closest to the capship and assign it to them as a target. But with a 3D map, you could open it up (which pauses the game), check to see if the new wing is anywhere near the capship. If so, they'd be the best bet to go attack it. If not, you could see what wing would be best from those currently dogfighting, and assign them to attack the capship.
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sand, I like that idea. It gives you the possibility to have more strategic integration if you want it. If you don't want it, and just wanna go shoot stuff, you can do that too!
The only problem would be multiplayer for that...
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would be like in a few other games: opening the window wouldn't pause the game in multi, that's all. Well, I think it shouldn't even in multi. more realistic, just like in real life, if you want to check a map, you'd make sure nobody's shooting at you. Of course, sound should go on so you hear if someone just launched a missile at you ;7
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Originally posted by Bobboau
I'm not sure if that is posable, but we may be able to add a rear veiw mirror
and, yes, I do beleve hell has frozen over, as I, Bobboau, just corected someone elses spelling
Since when is view spelled "veiw"? It seems to me you've just misspelled what Thunder spelled correctly :).
As for the HUD...
I like the radar as it is. I find it much easier to use than the Star Wars-style radar.
The primary weapon change would be *excellent*. It would be so much easier to select. On the other hand, I think secondary weapons should be left the way they are; allowing different secondary weapons to be fired at the same time would change the game, not just the HUD.
A larger escort list would be great. An adjustable-size list would be even better.
A 3D map would be interesting, but I'm not sure it would actually see very much use. On the other hand, doing something like that would go a long way to creating a Homeworld-style RTS, so it could be a stepping stone to a more advanced project.
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the hud is fine the way it is, I just had the idea,
now here is another idea, how about a beam lock warning, flashes "warning beam lock" in the hud and shows a simple cylindrical wire frame of were the beam will fire, you have about 1/16 a second to do somethng about it, also shows a wireframe around were bigger beams are about to fire
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I definitely like the idea of a beam lock warning. Short enough that only good pilots can act on it, but enough that you *might* avoid it.
As for the 3D map...I love it!! It would be much better then simply telling wingman to destroy your target, you could tell them how to do it (i.e. set up an attack run). However, I think the AI would need a lot of improvement so if fighters approach it will break off and engage them if its in danger. Additionally, something like homeowlrd tactics either with this or by itself would be nice so that when on attack runs against large ships they cover each other automatically.
Hmm....
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Originally posted by venom2506
would be like in a few other games: opening the window wouldn't pause the game in multi, that's all. Well, I think it shouldn't even in multi. more realistic, just like in real life, if you want to check a map, you'd make sure nobody's shooting at you. Of course, sound should go on so you hear if someone just launched a missile at you ;7
In multi, obviously the window wouldn't pause the game. In single, I think it should be an option to pause the game...I personally can't handle and will never use a map that doesn't pause the game. If the game is paused, however, and one can still issue orders (perhaps popping up a little list of the orders issued as they're being issued to keep the player straight), that would be mucho cool.
An option to allow the game to continue whilst the player is in the map would appeal to other players, though - ones who prefer a tough uber-challenge. (-: Also - if one enters the map without the game pausing, it would be useful to be able to enable/disable AI takeover of your ship while you're looking at the map. Since flight controls will most likely become map view controls, it's kinda stupid to have your fighter just flying straight. Even a routine that just puts your fighter into a perpetual outside loop while you're looking at the map would be useful.
--TurboNed
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Battlezone in space with the FS universe; that would be my dream game. ;) :D
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Originally posted by CP5670
Battlezone in space with the FS universe; that would be my dream game. ;) :D
Yeah baby! :)
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Thermal imaging for foggy nebulas... :D
Actually, being able to real-time witch between maps on ships would be useful... like swapping a fighter skin for an inivisble 'cloak' skin, or for a thermal outline type thing.
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now here is another idea, how about a beam lock warning, flashes "warning beam lock" in the hud and shows a simple cylindrical wire frame of were the beam will fire, you have about 1/16 a second to do somethng about it, also shows a wireframe around were bigger beams are about to fire
Kickass Bobboau! That sounds really cool.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Thermal imaging for foggy nebulas... :D
Actually, being able to real-time witch between maps on ships would be useful... like swapping a fighter skin for an inivisble 'cloak' skin, or for a thermal outline type thing.
I don't think you need an invisible cloak skin, you just tell the game to not render the fighter.
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for nebula missions, it would be nice if ships were drawn in 2d on the hud in green lines...or perhaps make it a feature you can turn on and off with the touch of a key. Ships hidden behind other objects (asteriods or other ships) can be drawn in red lines, or atleast use red for the parts that are hidden.
as for how these lines are drawn, they can be separate models that only show the sides you're facing, these will be clear on surfaces but green for the outline of major surfaces. This will also allow the person making the ship to determine which lines show up. The red lines can just be a hud generated thing, swaping out the green for red in the pixels that are covered by another ship/other object.
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Originally posted by LtNarol
for nebula missions, it would be nice if ships were drawn in 2d on the hud in green lines...or perhaps make it a feature you can turn on and off with the touch of a key. Ships hidden behind other objects (asteriods or other ships) can be drawn in red lines, or atleast use red for the parts that are hidden.
as for how these lines are drawn, they can be separate models that only show the sides you're facing, these will be clear on surfaces but green for the outline of major surfaces. This will also allow the person making the ship to determine which lines show up. The red lines can just be a hud generated thing, swaping out the green for red in the pixels that are covered by another ship/other object.
Cool idea, but I think it would make more sense to use IFF colors - green = friendly, red=hostile, etc. Maybe gray, or a different shade of the IFF color, for hidden objects...
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about the 3dmap i remember an old game using it, it was "epic".
there was just the top and bottom face of the cube, seen in long perspective, but the mess was to understand the z axis position (the relative high).
Personally i still prefer,maybe just beacuse i'm more used at it, the front/rear radar style, cause i find it more intuitive, but if we want a 3d solution this may work better: a circle seen in perspectiv (that represent x and y axis, like a map), a flshing central dot -our position- and the dots of the otherships around us with a line that connect the dots to the base of the radar, the circle i was talking about. The lines would probably help a lot to understand the z axis position, but the all stuff should be anyway enough big or it will become just a mess
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You mean, the way it's done in FRED, with an XZ plane and lines attaching all the ships to it...
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well, i thought about using iff colors, but that would be more coding, not to mention the fact that gray doesnt show up well in nebulas, red tends to fly out and hit you in the face. Not to mention florescent green :D
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Originally posted by IceFire
Kickass Bobboau! That sounds really cool.
Ditto :nod:
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The beam warning sounds great. :nod::yes:
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Originally posted by ##UnknownPlayer##
I don't think you need an invisible cloak skin, you just tell the game to not render the fighter.
Nah....because you want to have cloak effects, which can be imitated by - for example - an invisible green map with black bits in it, so it's noty entirely transparent.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Nah....because you want to have cloak effects, which can be imitated by - for example - an invisible green map with black bits in it, so it's noty entirely transparent.
would be dull, flying black dots :p
I'd rather have the actual map with opacity at 10%, ala wing co 4
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Are you kidding? Flying against a black ship would be almost impossible because of the whole blackness of space thing.
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until you get to the nebulas :D black dots against pink or blue...that'd be fun. Good idea aldo, in a regular starfield, it would look like its invisible but still distorting the space around it, brilliant.
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Originally posted by penguin
I happen to like the FS radar (and dislike the X-Wing front/back radars), but that's my opinion.
I can't picture a "spherical" radar -- I've seen several references to it, apparently some other games use this. Could someone post a picture of this in action (a partial screenshot would be OK, just showing the radar part.)
thx
I like the XWing radar more, but it might just be because xwing was the first space sim I played so I got used to it. Its the only one where I can actually visualize the battle since it doesn't disort anything. The radar in FS is useless to me since I can't imagine the entire battle stretched out.
One minor thing I would like changed would be to remove the arrow pointing to which way the target is, so that the radar would be more important.(like in the X-Wing games before Alliance).
btw, heres a picture of the "spherical" radar in IW2:
(http://www.geocities.com/radioactiveyeti/radar.txt)