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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Bryan See on October 09, 2017, 10:49:12 pm

Title: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: Bryan See on October 09, 2017, 10:49:12 pm

Rian Johnson states we want to avoid this, really? Anyway, it's a full-length trailer for the next Star Wars film.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: Scotty on October 09, 2017, 10:50:58 pm
Rian Johnson said to avoid it if you don't want spoilers.  That's it.  There are some in there, for sure.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: Det. Bullock on October 10, 2017, 12:09:45 am
I couldn't resist, this film is gonna be weird.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: DarkBasilisk on October 10, 2017, 12:16:58 am
Spoiler:
So the novice is going to train with the old master in seclusion who gets freaked out because of their similarities with the previous student that killed nearly all the Jedi, and then who is going to go on a mission to try and reach out to the Sith apprentice who still has good in them, against the advice of their mentor. Meanwhile the Empire is upping the stakes by hitting the rebels even harder. The good news is, if they're not only treading over Empire Strikes Back but also ROTJ, they may get into some original content by the third movie?
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: BlueFlames on October 10, 2017, 12:59:35 am
The plot twist in Episode VIII is that Rey turns to the dark side and helps the New Order crush the republic.  Episode IX is then three quiet hours of watching the ruins of peaceful civilization smolder, while rats feed on the charred remains of barely-recognizable corpses.  Smell-o-Vision equipped theaters will pump in the scent of burnt wookie hair.  Grief counselling will only be provided to those who paid for premium tickets.  Cross-promotional merchandising opportunities exist in the backyard bomb shelter industry.

Okay, I'll stop before I get my post split and moved to the politics forum....
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: technopredator on October 10, 2017, 03:18:50 am
Spoiler alert: Pokemon sighted @1:32.
Tickets available this early at only 999.99$ xD
I was going to watch this just to see how JJ Abrams screws up the last movie he has to, to screw the 3rd trilogy entirely, but this second trailer gives me A New Hope hehehe, we have come full circle then, but seriously this could well restore my belief in The Force and not be like the final fight with the alien in Alien: Covenant, cheese and dumb, like these 2 last SW movies, and I really don't understand why, it has previous movies, it has a massive fan base worldwide, it has the SFXs and a rich Universe story, they just have to make it interesting and they fail at this point IMO, if they can't have a good script give it to fans or whatever, it's the story more than anything what brings you to see this movies, the awesome futuristic and cool technology is a great enhancer, but if the story is crappy there isn't much to enhance, for example Episode IV, specially the enhanced version released decades later is probably the best of all, it ends leaving you with an urge for a trilogy, and the next 2 are great and unique, interesting, unpredictable and awesome when you're watching them for the first time, or the first few times, so they have an awesome base to make something different and interesting, and this implies from small personal scale to galactic implications, which the other movies lacked, or where too slow or always small but several little thing that screws up the end result, and I have read some critics and listened to some friends, and is about the same, the second trilogy had it all in the right proportion with the right speed, and the right timing, glorious majestic movies to never be repeated again, sad, when we have even more possibilities technologically to improve we lack what's more important, the human factor: the good story; at least this is my take on these movies
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: Buckshee Rounds on October 10, 2017, 02:17:13 pm
I still liked Rogue One better than Force Awakens. It will be quite telling I think if the next anthology film is also better than the main trilogy.

EDIT: Trying my damnedest not to be cynical, but christ I can almost hear the KACHING sound when that Porg thing jumped up.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: Colonol Dekker on October 11, 2017, 12:54:17 am
I like rogue one but I don't like kyle katarn being retconned.


Han solos replacement looks like a ground type.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: technopredator on October 11, 2017, 02:06:13 am
I still liked Rogue One better than Force Awakens. It will be quite telling I think if the next anthology film is also better than the main trilogy.

EDIT: Trying my damnedest not to be cynical, but christ I can almost hear the KACHING sound when that Porg thing jumped up.
Telling? I don't know, AFAIK George Lukas wrote only 9, but many people have wrote many stories around them over the years, as you might know, you can see that on games and if you ever torrent a SW library, or look for what happened before and after of each movie on each trilogy, many  stories, but controversial, some overlap, some contradict in parallel story-lines, some amateurs/fans, some claim being cannon, many websites, I gave up, maybe... but The Last Jedi doesn't seem promising specially after Luke tells on another trailer is time for the Jedi to end, we'll see...

I thought Why oh why there is always a Jar-jar bin type of character that doesn't seem to fit  :banghead:
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on October 11, 2017, 04:05:04 am
I like rogue one but I don't like kyle katarn being retconned.
As part of the EU, he never existed in this canon; there was nothing to retcon.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: Colonol Dekker on October 11, 2017, 07:43:20 am
Doesn't make it easier to stomach.   
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: Luis Dias on October 11, 2017, 08:50:54 am
I don't get why people are psyched about this. It's the crap that anyone would have predicted it to be. I see nothing "new" here.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: Bryan See on October 11, 2017, 09:08:11 am
Did you see Kylo's TIE/vn silencer flying through the Raddus to kill Leia? What about the Resistance ships besides the Raddus?
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: Buckshee Rounds on October 11, 2017, 11:25:01 am
I don't get why people are psyched about this. It's the crap that anyone would have predicted it to be. I see nothing "new" here.

There's the Porg thing? Another comic relief character that's sure to go down well with both audiences and merchandisers alike. :)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: MP-Ryan on October 11, 2017, 01:52:43 pm
Jesus, guys, could you be a more negative about a film you've seen a couple minutes of trailers for.  Honestly, this **** is entirely what's wrong with "geek culture."
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: StarSlayer on October 11, 2017, 09:37:52 pm
Jesus, guys, could you be a more negative about a film you've seen a couple minutes of trailers for.  Honestly, this **** is entirely what's wrong with "geek culture."

To be fair, I think it's a product of the internet's influence on culture in general.  If you wanted to ***** about the Ewoks or whatever back in the day you had to hop on your bike, pedal down to the Comic Book Shop and find someone to complain to (who not necessarily was going to agree with you).  Now no matter what your opinion is you can find a community just a internet connection away to stoke those fires.  I was initially disappointed by Phantom Menace for example, but I don't think I would have developed the keen edge of vehemence for it if it had opened before the internet existed.

While its generally in good fun with pop culture crap I tend to believe the overall effect to more important societal issues is becoming detrimental.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: technopredator on October 12, 2017, 03:13:26 am
Porg=Pokemon Porn
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: The E on October 12, 2017, 03:26:14 am
Jesus, guys, could you be a more negative about a film you've seen a couple minutes of trailers for.  Honestly, this **** is entirely what's wrong with "geek culture."

I'm plenty excited for this film. Part of the reason for that is that these new Star Wars films are remixes of the old ones: Sure, that means that they aren't ~original~, but it does mean that there's a solid base there that the prequels lacked. I'm looking forward to the story this trilogy tells; as Mikey Neumann said in his essay about TFA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVZGUV77aRg): This new trilogy does the right things in bringing the same feelings as the original back in a more modern format.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: Luis Dias on October 12, 2017, 05:35:58 am
can't wait for being admonished for pointing out that Star Wars XXVII is tired and clichéd, "you're what's wrong with geek culture man".

yeah.

Meanwhile Blade Runner is actually good and interesting and is getting shredded in the theathers. So excuse the **** out of me.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: The E on October 12, 2017, 06:51:59 am
A meditative film about the nature of man not being successful? What is the world coming to.....
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: Luis Dias on October 12, 2017, 07:31:24 am
lets get them pew pew thats what geek culture is all about man pew pew pew shwoink bhsszz bhszz pew pew pew cant wait for it BIG LAZOORRSZ.

wait wait. I remember a joke.

Lemme say it here:



"Star Wars is Geek Culture"
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: MP-Ryan on October 12, 2017, 01:11:10 pm
I'm plenty excited for this film. Part of the reason for that is that these new Star Wars films are remixes of the old ones: Sure, that means that they aren't ~original~, but it does mean that there's a solid base there that the prequels lacked. I'm looking forward to the story this trilogy tells; as Mikey Neumann said in his essay about TFA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVZGUV77aRg): This new trilogy does the right things in bringing the same feelings as the original back in a more modern format.

Wholeheartedly agree.  And since Star Wars is entirely about the whole cycle of Force balance and history repeating itself, this actually makes sense.

Meanwhile Blade Runner is actually good and interesting and is getting shredded in the theathers. So excuse the **** out of me.

Blade Runner is getting good reviews in pretty much every single review I've seen.  Not getting traction in theatres is likely due to lack of broad appeal.  A lot of people are under the impression its a reboot.

Also, my comment has to do with the fact that people are already slamming the latest SW entry on the basis of clips in a couple of trailers (which I'm betting most of aren't even in the damn film) rather than having actually seen it.  That was my criticism.  You want to argue it's bad after you actually watch it, fill your boots.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: Grizzly on October 12, 2017, 04:48:09 pm
The original Blade Runner was also well reviewed and didn't do all that well in theatres.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: technopredator on October 13, 2017, 02:30:52 am
I just saw Rogue One, again, I was trying to remember why I disliked it the first time, and I did remembered: "The Force" wasn't even there it was just intelligent living beings doing the best they could with what they have, same thing as we humans do in this Universe when religions fails every time, noting but a myth, except the blind guardian guy that even being on the "Jedi Planet" and being guardians when the Jedi Temple was operational didn't have much force use, just Kung-Fu and good "aim", nothing like actually applying a force and seeing on other movies, even in little amounts it's a demonstration of it, hence worth believing in it, the girl had a crystal to make a light saber, and she didn't just looked at it twice and when getting the tape she could have use some, at least to safe herself in the end, she just died like the rest, and her mom recommendation of trust in the force was void, many physics and realistic situations failures, crappy boring dialogs and solutions to scenes and situations, you wonder I could have wrote this, I can believe this is a SW movie, it's so simple and dumb and boring, just because is in the SW universe is good? who makes this crappy movies? who let them? Mediocre at best, but people just go for the feelings and what's showing them instead of that but also the logic of things, that creates harmony and a beautiful complete experience, wow I can't believe how little demanding are people when the hype is high and something is famous for their past glories instead for current merits, but I guess that show biz and most people just fell for it, as long as it's entertaining enough... and also true what they say: mediocrity is underrated
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: potterman28wxcv on October 13, 2017, 05:42:00 am
Jesus, guys, could you be a more negative about a film you've seen a couple minutes of trailers for.  Honestly, this **** is entirely what's wrong with "geek culture."

To be fair, I think it's a product of the internet's influence on culture in general.  If you wanted to ***** about the Ewoks or whatever back in the day you had to hop on your bike, pedal down to the Comic Book Shop and find someone to complain to (who not necessarily was going to agree with you).  Now no matter what your opinion is you can find a community just a internet connection away to stoke those fires.  I was initially disappointed by Phantom Menace for example, but I don't think I would have developed the keen edge of vehemence for it if it had opened before the internet existed.

While its generally in good fun with pop culture crap I tend to believe the overall effect to more important societal issues is becoming detrimental.
I actually loved Phantom Menace.. One of my favorite Star Wars movies
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: Buckshee Rounds on October 13, 2017, 02:14:34 pm
I actually loved Phantom Menace.. One of my favorite Star Wars movies

(http://cdn2us.denofgeek.com/sites/denofgeekus/files/styles/article_width/public/2016/01/invasion-of-the-body-snatchers-final-scene.jpg?itok=7lUH3HV3)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: Mongoose on October 13, 2017, 03:44:08 pm
I just saw Rogue One, again, I was trying to remember why I disliked it the first time, and I did remembered: "The Force" wasn't even there it was just intelligent living beings doing the best they could with what they have, same thing as we humans do in this Universe when religions fails every time, noting but a myth, except the blind guardian guy that even being on the "Jedi Planet" and being guardians when the Jedi Temple was operational didn't have much force use, just Kung-Fu and good "aim", nothing like actually applying a force and seeing on other movies, even in little amounts it's a demonstration of it, hence worth believing in it, the girl had a crystal to make a light saber, and she didn't just looked at it twice and when getting the tape she could have use some, at least to safe herself in the end, she just died like the rest, and her mom recommendation of trust in the force was void, many physics and realistic situations failures, crappy boring dialogs and solutions to scenes and situations, you wonder I could have wrote this, I can believe this is a SW movie, it's so simple and dumb and boring, just because is in the SW universe is good? who makes this crappy movies? who let them? Mediocre at best, but people just go for the feelings and what's showing them instead of that but also the logic of things, that creates harmony and a beautiful complete experience, wow I can't believe how little demanding are people when the hype is high and something is famous for their past glories instead for current merits, but I guess that show biz and most people just fell for it, as long as it's entertaining enough... and also true what they say: mediocrity is underrated
I don't even understand what you're on about here, but Rogue One was the best Star Wars movie besides ESB.  Like, I was legitimately shocked by how good it turned out.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: The E on October 13, 2017, 03:53:49 pm
I don't even understand what you're on about here, but Rogue One was the best Star Wars movie besides ESB.  Like, I was legitimately shocked by how good it turned out.

Yeah, Rogue One is the sort of adult Star Wars movie that could've been a massive disaster but instead turned out really good. Its focus on the grunts of the setting (instead of going for all that high and mighty Jedi stuff), and its showing of how the Force was treated by the non-Force users out there was just great. It showing us Vader at his most intimidating also helped to fill out a piece in the Anakin Skywalker storyline that was sort of missing. As a companion piece to ANH, it makes ANH better by establishing Vader as a holy terror that mere mortals just can't handle (something that ANH kiiiinnnndaaaaa fails at), and by showing us just how far the Republic has fallen since the end of Episode 3.

This movie didn't need to exist, but I am glad that it does.

Also, it features the single best space battle sequence of the Star Wars movies so far (the best overall battle sequence is still ROTJ's; nothing else matches the way that film intercuts the space, ground and emotional battles perfectly).
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: Colonol Dekker on October 13, 2017, 05:20:23 pm
It's my favourite terror sequence (vader boarding the command cruiser) true and I salute all involved in securing the plans.



#katarndiditfirstthough


Edit- autocorrect spelled vader wrong.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: Buckshee Rounds on October 13, 2017, 05:21:30 pm
Highly agreed. The battle scenes were phenomenal. My favourite sequence is when the rebels try to escape only for Vader's star destroyer to warp in and just utterly shred them.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: Det. Bullock on October 13, 2017, 08:34:34 pm
It's my favourite terror sequence (vara boarding the command cruiser) true and I salute all involved in securing the plans.



#katarndiditfirstthough
Before katarn the guys in X-wing set up a fake imperial satellite grid to intercept the plans, everybody knows that.
#katarndiditsecond

The original Blade Runner was also well reviewed and didn't do all that well in theatres.
From what I gather reception was mixed, many critics found it boring only to course correct later when it became a cult movie.
It's a bit like what happened with ESB, the critics didn't consider it the "one of the best sequels ever" like today and lamented that it wasn't as "fun" as the first, ROTJ was reviewed better at the time because of that.
In general I feel many critics then and now have trouble with judging sci-fi, fantasy and the fantastical in general and only after a couple of decades get a better perspective.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: technopredator on October 14, 2017, 01:15:27 pm
Hwat I'm about, well I'm about of what I wrote before, how much Rogue One and Episode VII The Force Awakens sucked for me, and this is all subjective, for you it was the best for you accomplish your expectation for me not. so there is no best, implying general consensus, there are critics for these movies at least on the points I made, but you clearly don't even consider those points, as I wrote you people that liked it go for the feeling and willing to forgive instantly if anything doesn't make much sense or just go for whatever plot and visuals that are not too much incoherent or forced, if it looks smooth enough and keeps your emotions at certain height then it's good, but I'm those people that are most of the time checking the coherence of something and if a movies is has flaws probably I'll spot them and here there are many, but I guess everyone needs a degree of denial and fantasy, specially when you're going to watch for 2 hours something that doesn't exist at all, I seem to have lost pretty much that, for now at least
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: Mongoose on October 14, 2017, 04:25:47 pm
If you're trying to claim I'm the sort of person who doesn't take a critical approach to consuming entertainment, then you're grossly mistaken.  You claim Rogue One had logical flaws, so cite them in a clear manner, and we'll see if they hold up.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: The E on October 14, 2017, 04:42:24 pm
I'm those people that are most of the time checking the coherence of something and if a movies is has flaws probably I'll spot them and here there are many

I'm just going to take this statement and contrast it with this earlier statement of yours:

I just saw Rogue One, again, I was trying to remember why I disliked it the first time, and I did remembered: "The Force" wasn't even there it was just intelligent living beings doing the best they could with what they have, same thing as we humans do in this Universe when religions fails every time, noting but a myth, except the blind guardian guy that even being on the "Jedi Planet" and being guardians when the Jedi Temple was operational didn't have much force use, just Kung-Fu and good "aim", nothing like actually applying a force and seeing on other movies, even in little amounts it's a demonstration of it, hence worth believing in it, the girl had a crystal to make a light saber, and she didn't just looked at it twice and when getting the tape she could have use some, at least to safe herself in the end, she just died like the rest, and her mom recommendation of trust in the force was void

Now, if I understand the above correctly, you disliked Rogue One because the Force was something that was reduced to merely a religious belief, not an active thing people could use as it was in the prequels.
Consider this: In Episode 4 (and, to an extent The Force Awakens), the Force was reduced to something of a religious thing. You had a high-ranking imperial officer doubting the existence of the Force in Vader's presence, despite said officer almost certainly coming of age during the latter days of the old republic. You had Han Solo doubting its existence as well, despite the same fact being true.

What does that tell us? That, for the vast majority of sentient beings in the Republic, the Jedi were not an actual presence they ever encountered in real life. If they did, their reluctance to actually use the Force in any flashy way would reduce them to being what amounts to overhyped warrior monks in the eyes of the populace.
Thus, we get people who, despite presumably having access to the official history of the Republic, have no reason to believe that the Force is anything more than a religion.

Rogue One, then, treating the Force as something that seemingly doesn't exist except to fuel Chirrut's beliefs and as something that Jyn Erso uses as a confidence building tool, is perfectly in line with (or, to use another word, perfectly coherent with) the state of the galaxy as we know it during A New Hope.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: technopredator on October 14, 2017, 09:31:12 pm
@Mongoose I'm not going to do that, people that don't see them tend to deny them and are biased for their discussion, it's a waste of time, they're in the movie if you appreciate realism and harmonious coherence or realistic plots, you clearly don't, and you're happy with your liking of them, you might be a critic when someone pointed out but clearly not when you're emotionally invested in a movie like you have demonstrated to be; why don't you watch the movie again, this time with more realistic perspective in mind? And it's way too much to go watch it again and take note of all the flaws, they're many more than dozen I once tried to calculate and lost count.

@The_E Yes you got my point right, and your analysis IMO is correct, but as I have read in the synopsis of some games and books derived from the 3-trilogy saga, there are several types of Jedi, so the diffent light saber colors, with different types of Force use and non-Jedi Force users, and even the other extreme, Jedi with little use Force but extremely good at fencing, so it's a vast range of combinations and degrees of strength of each, so at least a small degree/ability from the Force would be there, at least the statistical bell said so, given these derived stories that assure this is the case, so yes Force Users/Jedi were rare/untrained, but in Episode 3 you see there were many Jedi, so that and many more should be around but untrained, so at least 1 character should have force use in a bare minimum, I thought was the daughter of the scientists, since she had a Light Saber crystal about the right size to start building 1, but yes it's possible that what you describe could happen, but given strong presence and influence of the force in several degrees throughout the Galaxy shouldn't be probable, so it doesn't make sense, at least not to me.

Anyway, it's sci-fi and I've been disappointed often enough to never take them for granted until they deliver and have little to no expectation to be objective about the message and delivery of it, to appreciate the effort by its merits, but I take the first released trilogy, they had almost no lack of logic, it was the way the general structure should be, not exactly, not a derivative but a the characteristics, the timing of the scenes, the speed of them, the coherence of them and their advancement, and so many details escape me now that leaves someone that tends to analyze things as they happen, convinced enough to give way to emotional investment and enjoy the movie, but so many little flaws just when they were doing OK several minutes into some parts of the movie, lazy writing or lack of creativity, anyway, as for my standards/Episode 3 standards, they're inferior quality, so this is not something we can agree on by checking the logic, in the end is subjective, you saw the same movie for me was disappointing at best, for you and others was a master piece, we clearly have different entertainment standards. People tells me I'm a perfectionist and look for even insignificant details, but it's a small thorn that even when I can't see it, it bothers you, it's there and will keep hurting until you search for it and see what why, and I know there are many small details, I don't want to go into them.

Something similar with the latest Star Trek movie, analyzing later on the story was a cliche that an amateur would pull out to compensate lack of creativity and imagination, what it could have been a great movie, some movies took years even 10+ or decades to come up with a good sequel because the candidates weren't along the storyline, and generally result in great movie series, but SW case people wanted more SW, wanted the last trilogy done badly, but George Lucas was burned out and old, so something for sure was missing from the second released trilogy, so they put JJ Abrams in the pilot seat and he did what he could on his own way, not really SW and not really Star Trek, and now we have this Star Trek Black Ops called Discovery, OK, I'm sleepy and can't think clear anymore, cheers
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: Buckshee Rounds on October 15, 2017, 07:29:24 am
@Mongoose I'm not going to do that, people that don't see them tend to deny them and are biased for their discussion, it's a waste of time, they're in the movie if you appreciate realism and harmonious coherence or realistic plots, you clearly don't, and you're happy with your liking of them, you might be a critic when someone pointed out but clearly not when you're emotionally invested in a movie like you have demonstrated to be; why don't you watch the movie again, this time with more realistic perspective in mind? And it's way too much to go watch it again and take note of all the flaws, they're many more than dozen I once tried to calculate and lost count.

You're willing to claim Rogue 1 has logical flaws, but you're not willing to cite at least one to back up your argument? If there are so many, as you claim, then surely it wouldn't be so difficult to bring up just one example to prove your point?

Rogue One, then, treating the Force as something that seemingly doesn't exist except to fuel Chirrut's beliefs and as something that Jyn Erso uses as a confidence building tool, is perfectly in line with (or, to use another word, perfectly coherent with) the state of the galaxy as we know it during A New Hope.

Very much agreed and in all honesty I think I prefer it this way. It makes a force-user that much more rare and awe-inspiring. The Vader scenes had so much weight behind them because of this.

Part of the problem of the prequels was that it didn't get this point across. At least half of the action scenes had the lightsabers coming out and jedi doing flashy force feats. There's nothing necessarily wrong with that, but it should be done in such a way as to show that this is not a common occurrence, that any involvement of the jedi means **** is getting very very serious, which I suppose it was in the context of the prequels.

Attack of the Clones was the worst offender with the Jedi spam on Geonosis. I preferred seeing Anakin and Obi-Wan having to fight off the pit beasts using nothing but skills and guile (Padme was...also there...I guess). In this sense I think Phantom Menace actually had a better balance since it was limited to the Obi-Wan Qui-Gon duo.

Jedi are rare. We should not be seeing any great number of them outside of the academy unless there's like a horde of Sith trying to genocide some race or other.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: Mongoose on October 15, 2017, 01:52:36 pm
@Mongoose I'm not going to do that, people that don't see them tend to deny them and are biased for their discussion, it's a waste of time, they're in the movie if you appreciate realism and harmonious coherence or realistic plots, you clearly don't, and you're happy with your liking of them, you might be a critic when someone pointed out but clearly not when you're emotionally invested in a movie like you have demonstrated to be; why don't you watch the movie again, this time with more realistic perspective in mind? And it's way too much to go watch it again and take note of all the flaws, they're many more than dozen I once tried to calculate and lost count.
So in other words, you can't cite any concrete examples of flaws and are admitting that you don't have a leg to stand on in this discussion.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: technopredator on October 16, 2017, 12:05:44 am
@Mongoose I'm not going to do that, people that don't see them tend to deny them and are biased for their discussion, it's a waste of time, they're in the movie if you appreciate realism and harmonious coherence or realistic plots, you clearly don't, and you're happy with your liking of them, you might be a critic when someone pointed out but clearly not when you're emotionally invested in a movie like you have demonstrated to be; why don't you watch the movie again, this time with more realistic perspective in mind? And it's way too much to go watch it again and take note of all the flaws, they're many more than dozen I once tried to calculate and lost count.
So in other words, you can't cite any concrete examples of flaws and are admitting that you don't have a leg to stand on in this discussion.
And now you're trying to bite me into it, by falsely accusing me of something, same way you probably BS yourself into thinking that movie had 0 flaws and it's a great movie because you wanted to believe so, I already gave my reasons and you just validated them, I'm not going to write anymore about it
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: The E on October 16, 2017, 04:20:59 am
And now you're trying to bite me into it, by falsely accusing me of something, same way you probably BS yourself into thinking that movie had 0 flaws and it's a great movie because you wanted to believe so, I already gave my reasons and you just validated them, I'm not going to write anymore about it

You cannot have it both ways. You can't accuse us of something and then abandon the thread when we're asking for clarifications on what you meant by claiming that we are falsely accusing you of something. That's not how civilized discussions work.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: technopredator on October 16, 2017, 06:21:37 am
Well, I thought people were commenting about it and given their takes on SW movies, not actually wanting confirmation on things, and civilized discussion work up to 1 of the parties don't want to discuss it, I don't, so it's over, see? specially in a shallow subjective subject of how did I liked a movie, The same way E, you didn't wanted to continue our conversation about the CCleaner subject, I respected that, civilized conversation doesn't mean I'm going to answer whatever you want the way you want it as much as you want it, you might request I might accept or decline, and on this subject I decline, period, I'm having it both ways. Also I'm giving my opinion what you're not seeing and I'm not asking you to prove me why you're right, your opinions why you're right are given and are cherry picked, but I'm not challenging them, I read them I disagree and I move on. I suggested to watch it again and try to be logical about it to find the errors, more often than not people forgive a lot of BS on series and movies to keep them coherent and liking them, so it's more common than not, not noticing the errors, so how about you fans go make the effort to by yourselves see what's wrong with it? odds are against you, so you're probably very biased about it

Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: Luis Dias on October 16, 2017, 06:43:24 am
That's all fine, except you also did accuse others of "bias" and liking "incoherent" plots and so on and I guess that rustled their feathers. It would irritate me as well.

I'm personally getting more and more tired of this "franchise". It can go some ways, all bad. One, they can try to create more stories that "glue" everything together in a "coherent" way, but given the baggage of bull**** that has been accrued for all these decades, more things like midichlorians become almost inevitable, turning the entire thing into ****stain after ****stain. Two, they can try to just ignore everything, ala JJ, which makes the whole SW universe into a charade, lacking any sense of limitations and coherence, everything becomes just what the plot demands it to be, instead of being governed by a set of rules clearly established beforehand, with sharp and clear concepts (so, for instance, the opposite of having a 30 year old armed force protecting your republic being called "The Resistance"). It may well be "emotionally" rollercoasty, but after the rush and the climax, you kinda realise that's not the girl you really wanted to make love to and you feel slightly ashamed and bad about it.

Three, they can try and continue what they did 40 (THAT'S FORTY) years ago with the least amount of changes so that everyone keeps being happy, both the most emotional part of our brains and the coherent logical inquisitor that rests in the other part of our brains. It will also break no new grounds whatsoever and just be what it was already, the exact same movies that we had already seen 40 (THAT'S FORTY) years ago.

Needless to say, TFA and Rogue both did (differently) a combination of all three of these, and failed pretty much at being culturally interesting.

But they did well money wise. And there are lots of Star Wars lego. Which is very cool. Very very cool. Pretty cool. So that's what matters.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: technopredator on October 16, 2017, 07:46:56 am
I know but I justified my claims enough for them to have content, they say no it's all good, OK we agree to disagree.
Somthing that might help you see what I mean and understand you fan bias:
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: Scotty on October 16, 2017, 06:19:00 pm
technopredator, do you seriously not realize how irritating (and poor debate form) it is to walk into a thread, claim something without providing any evidence, then declare that people asking for evidence is proof that they're biased and that you don't need to provide evidence because of that bias?

Because that's really irritating, and basically the definition of arguing in bad faith.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: technopredator on October 16, 2017, 07:00:30 pm
It's not the claiming, it's the accusation I made saying they didn't saw the flaws, movies have flaws, that you don't see it, doesn't mean you're immune to the accusation of not seeing them, and I provided anyway a honest trailer video, but you still want me to give my thoughts on it, well tough, I don't care what you or anyone else here wants it, you won't get it, insisting for the 4th time after I gave you some input, that's really irritating, go read all the posts I made before posting, how about that? stop being crybabies about it
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: Mongoose on October 16, 2017, 07:33:56 pm
Yes, essentially all movies have flaws.  What a shocking revelation.  However, you've made absolutely no case that this particular movie's flaws are a notable detriment to its overall quality, instead accusing us of "not seeing them."  What exactly were you hoping to achieve here?
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: Luis Dias on October 17, 2017, 04:04:17 am
Guys could you knock it off? I don't even understand what you're trying to achieve either, Mongoose? He didn't like it and probably sees the flaws in it in a way that is fatal to the enjoyment of the movie, you clearly don't?

Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: technopredator on October 17, 2017, 04:24:24 am
Yes, essentially all movies have flaws.  What a shocking revelation.  However, you've made absolutely no case that this particular movie's flaws are a notable detriment to its overall quality, instead accusing us of "not seeing them."  What exactly were you hoping to achieve here?
Read my previous posts, I'm not going to repeat myself, I'm off this thread, too many dramma queens that cannot be accused of not seeing flaws, they see everything, they're perfect, pfffff please
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: Buckshee Rounds on October 17, 2017, 07:48:40 am
Accuses others of melodrama -> ragequits.

I guess that's one way of winning a debate. Now I'll never know why I'm so biased. :(
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: Colonol Dekker on October 17, 2017, 03:17:59 pm
 :rolleyes:

This isn't what GD is supposed to be...........the great founders will not sleep well this night.


We should all think very hard about what happened here and strive to better ourselves lest it come to pass again in the generations to come.

 :nono:
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: BlueFlames on October 17, 2017, 03:21:33 pm
Okay, I guess the politics subforum needs to be expanded to include politics, religion, and sci-fi franchises.  Then, Gen Disc will be properly detoxified.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: Luis Dias on October 18, 2017, 04:11:45 am
tbf, star wars should count as a religion itself.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi 2nd trailer
Post by: MP-Ryan on October 18, 2017, 01:11:28 pm
Then, Gen Disc will be properly detoxified.

 :wakka: