Author Topic: HTL Medusa  (Read 69632 times)

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Offline Hades

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The upgrades are noticable, minor things such as amount of thruster glows are not.
Why, they most certainly are. I've worked with them for a while now, changed them around, added more, etc. on many FSU ships, and believe me, they do make a difference.
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Offline Luis Dias

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Lol People are so perfectionist! You aren't going to see Medusa's full glory in-game, ever. The usage of 4 to 6 thruster glows per port is the obvious answer, and no one will ever notice that "OMG the effects only showed 10 GLOW THRUSTERS when the ship when stopped CLEARLY HAS 24 OMGWTFBBQ!!!". ... ahhhhem. And the full detail of the ship will only be noticeable when someone makes a cutscene with it flying right on the screen sideways, as the Collossus is in its own cutscene.

The model is awesome. And you'll never notice it in-game. Oh what the hell, it's awesome and that's reason enough :)

Looking at it that way,  nothing would have changed since retail.

Yeah great, thanks for that. I never had realised that either was this ubber shebang megatextured and twentythousandpoly upgrade or nuthin.

But I thank you for making me see the Truth.

 

Offline Mars

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Yeah great, thanks for that. I never had realised that either was this ubber shebang megatextured and twentythousandpoly upgrade or nuthin.

But I thank you for making me see the Truth.

That was needlessly pissy - if it weren't for the people who wanted every last detail of their work perfectly done in their eyes, models would still be very limited, the engine itself would have a lot more of the original bugs. Much of the improvements in FSO have been in large part because someone wanted their work to be JUST SO, so if the Medusa crew want to nitpick their work, I feel no need to nag them along.

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Well I disagree. But whatever rocks your boat.

 

Offline Hades

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I personally don't see how trying to get it as perfect as possible is bad, because it only means a better looking end result.

I like you, Luis Dias. Don't ruin it.
[22:29] <sigtau> Hello, #hard-light?  I'm trying to tell a girl she looks really good for someone who doesn't exercise.  How do I word that non-offensively?
[22:29] <RangerKarl|AtWork> "you look like a big tasty muffin"
----
<batwota> wouldn’t that mean that it’s prepared to kiss your ass if you flank it :p
<batwota> wow
<batwota> KILL

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Did not say that at all. I even said, just for the amazingness of it all go for it. But since there's a problem in putting all 24 thrusters in FSO, I really can't see an issue in downgrading it to 10.

But hey, if you can upgrade FSO so it will be okay, and the fps of a medusa squadron on the screen doesn't go down to 10, I guess that's fine too. I was just entertained by the perfectionality that's all ;).

One day I'll have the time and patience and revisit some cruiser model I made here that I tried so hard to get it under 10k ;). It'll have at least double, and I won't take any complaints about it! :D
« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 10:34:30 pm by Luis Dias »

 

Offline Black Wolf

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The main problem I have with modelled thrusters is that the Medusa will have a distinctly different looking engine than every other ship in the game. Personally, I'm with luis dias - if you can get 90% of the effect from a smaller number of thrusters, I'd go for that, myself.
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Offline AtomicClucker

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This is sort of a problem with consistency in the varying designs; ideally everything would follow an established style guide (yes, ima Graphic Designer) that entails the do's and don'ts for the artistic direction of a project.

However, different people are submitting work from their own time and effort; the result is a style conflict due to personal tastes. Now I'm not criticizing anyone's work or approaches, but we've got an essentially volunteer based effort that has no formal organization or guidelines for how the MVPS should look. If it looks good and works, then that's an option, my only problem is when actual gameplay balance could suffer, but that's another discussion. :D
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Offline Luis Dias

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And, Atomic, that's part of the charm of HTL anyway ;).

 

Offline Zacam

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Multiple points to address here. The only problem with having 24 vs 12 (which is the actual top value, not 10) is that there is a static number in the code that says so. A number than can be easily changed or potentially made dynamic.

As for modeled thrusters putting this ship out of the way of other ships, only if they don't get modeled thrusters as well. And anything with a circular shaped engine will probably be low on the priority scale. But lets face it, round shaped thrust balls on non-round thrust vents = not all that great. Compare the Pegasus with a modeled thruster effect vs the current, it honestly looks significantly better the old way. But the fact of the matter was that less and less models were being made with modeled thrusters because everybody wanted the Particle/Glow-point ones or something (especially on the round shaped ones). Also, compare the above shot that The E posted on the Medusa rear against what is currently in the F3 lab. It just looks better, but 24 thrusters points (while not being a performance problem) are an aesthetic problem when you have 24 AB Trails from one ship.

Despite there being a hodge-podge of members and aesthetics working on the models, there actually IS an over-laying style guide and direction. We may not be a professional studio, and our numbers may come and go, but it is there. Try applying that eye to the retail assets and tell me where it was then, because that's what we have to work with. And while there are many areas where subtle interpretations are everything, they do under go a formulation of consensus. Just because YOU don't see the organization doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And if it's output doesn't meet your aesthetic or standard, that's hardly my problem, but maybe you might share it more with us and we'll be more than happy to listen.

And nothing done should ever affect game play balance of the Retail Campaign. We test for that, and it is Verboten.
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Offline Herra Tohtori

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Well... The models in FreeSpace show a lot of variance in style depending on their design and manufacturer, actually. This is consistent with real world - even aircraft designed for the same goal can have vastly different appearance (A-10 Thunderbolt 2 vs. Su-25/39 Frogfoot, both designed for ground attack purposes), and those are limited by the laws of physics that requires them to have same basic structures (such as wings).

No such limitations in FreeSpace.
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Offline Dragon

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The perfect solution would be coding in some kind of system which would allow to detach AB trail spew points from thruster glows (optinally, of course). It could be difficult, but it could come in handy for a lot of models. Unfortunately, it'd most likely require a major change in code.
Thruster cones are fine, as long as they'll be on all ships. The ones with circular engines can be handled by modelling a cone with a circualr base and scaling it in PCS2.
Of course, I wouldn't be against bumping the trail limit by the way. In fact, I know a place where it'd be really welcome.

 

Offline Destiny

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Well, I just flew a Medusa. It uses four small...well, those small engine...thingies...exhaust, yeah.. I don't see why it can't be done with this model. If that doesn't satisfy you...




Why not go for broke and use a single large engine glow-thingy for each engine, then technobabbling it in the top of the wiki article? Something like this...umm...

Quote
The GTB Medusa is a class of heavy bomber which was developed during the Great War. It was the only Terran bomber at the time of its introduction capable of mounting the Tsunami anti-cruiser warhead. A respectable secondary capacity allowed the Medusa to play a pivotal role in several key battles of the Great War. The engines of the Medusa developed by Han-Roland Corp. combines the exhausts of each engine pod, into two, making it more efficient <something> for afterburning or stealth or something, really.
I know it's rubbish and totally nonsensical but, better something than nothing.


Just making my point though...hah. Don't take it too seriously. Dragon's idea is quite good too.

 

Offline mjn.mixael

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The perfect solution would be coding in some kind of system which would allow to detach AB trail spew points from thruster glows (optinally, of course). It could be difficult, but it could come in handy for a lot of models. Unfortunately, it'd most likely require a major change in code.
Thruster cones are fine, as long as they'll be on all ships. The ones with circular engines can be handled by modelling a cone with a circualr base and scaling it in PCS2.
Of course, I wouldn't be against bumping the trail limit by the way. In fact, I know a place where it'd be really welcome.

Simply put, if done right, modelled thrusters look better. We've seen examples and screens from several places. Ask Hades if you want to see them again because I can't be arsed to look them up right now.

Now, switching to thruster glows like we did a while back is an *easy* chore comparatively. Ships already mostly had all the points set up, they may have needed some sizing, but we could make thruster changes in one fell swoop.

It's very unlikely we could ever do that if we wanted to add modelled thrusters to all ships again, because most HTL models never got them at all. It is a much bigger task to undertake. With that in mind, if we blanket the whole thing and say "all or none" then it's quite unlikely we'll ever get around to switching to something better than our current system. We don't have the staff or time to go through all the ships and add modelled thrusters right now.

I don't know what our plans are in FSU yet, things are still being worked out. However, modelled thrusters are currently OFF in the species table. There is absolutely no reason why we shouldn't add modelled thrusters to the Medusa, even if only for future compatibility. Let's take a chill pill here people. There are many options and all of them point toward a better looking Freespace experience.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2011, 02:31:43 pm by mjn.mixael »
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Offline Luis Dias

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I'm all for a "better looking Freespace experience" myself.

 

Offline AtomicClucker

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Quote from: Zacam
Despite there being a hodge-podge of members and aesthetics working on the models, there actually IS an over-laying style guide and direction. We may not be a professional studio, and our numbers may come and go, but it is there. Try applying that eye to the retail assets and tell me where it was then, because that's what we have to work with. And while there are many areas where subtle interpretations are everything, they do under go a formulation of consensus. Just because YOU don't see the organization doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And if it's output doesn't meet your aesthetic or standard, that's hardly my problem, but maybe you might share it more with us and we'll be more than happy to listen.

No offense meant, but I'm used to keeping things unified or under a common sail or having all of the art elements gathered together in a "group" thinking session. However,  I think it's not a good idea to enforce any unity on the FSU especially since this is a community of volunteers. HLP reminds me of the Debian developers, who are essentially a loose confederacy (yes, Debian is awesome). On top of that, this ins't a studio like Valve which spends tremendous time on making look and feel a priority.

So I'll just say that it's stupid to try and place professional standards on community driven projects. Henceforth my little quip about ideally.
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Offline Zacam

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Quote from: Zacam
Despite there being a hodge-podge of members and aesthetics working on the models, there actually IS an over-laying style guide and direction. We may not be a professional studio, and our numbers may come and go, but it is there. Try applying that eye to the retail assets and tell me where it was then, because that's what we have to work with. And while there are many areas where subtle interpretations are everything, they do under go a formulation of consensus. Just because YOU don't see the organization doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And if it's output doesn't meet your aesthetic or standard, that's hardly my problem, but maybe you might share it more with us and we'll be more than happy to listen.

No offense meant, but I'm used to keeping things unified or under a common sail or having all of the art elements gathered together in a "group" thinking session. However,  I think it's not a good idea to enforce any unity on the FSU especially since this is a community of volunteers.
...
So I'll just say that it's stupid to try and place professional standards on community driven projects. Henceforth my little quip about ideally.

Then why'd you mention it in the first place?

And just because we're NOT a Professional Studio, doesn't mean we can't aim for (and achieve) or should desire less than Studio level pride in accomplishing our goals.

In any case, starting to get Off Topic here. Again. Model is under going testing.
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[08/01 16:53:11] <sigtau> EveningTea: I have decided that I am a 32-bit registerkin.  Pronouns are eax, ebx, ecx, edx.
[08/01 16:53:31] <EveningTea> dhauidahh
[08/01 16:53:32] <EveningTea> sak
[08/01 16:53:40] * EveningTea froths at the mouth
[08/01 16:53:40] <sigtau> i broke him, boys