[Luis Dias]

That's a bunch of things right there man. A real bunch. Of things.

[jr2]

-snip-

Le sigh.


Alright.  You might have a point.

So you are not ever going to run a Microsoft OS again?  Cause from what I hear, they're patching Windows 7 & 8/8.1 to do the same thing.

Anyways, even being paranoid enough to not allow all sorts of spying from smart devices, FB, MS, etc etc -- that puts you on a list too, I'm sure.  The people paranoid enough to categorize the entire populace based on data they illicitly obtained, will probably categorize someone who eludes their efforts as more of a threat than someone with known terrorist ties.

Want to fix it?  Vote in people like Rand Paul, who actually know what the 4th Amendment in the Bill of Rights (<-read that if any of you haven't, it's good stuff) means, and support it.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Companies spying, well, I odn't know what they are really going to do about it.  All they want to do is get money, and the best way to do that is to offer you things they you might want, and to increase their chances of that, they need to know more about you.

However, the concerning thing is, the government would be very interested in access to that some data, and wouldn't have much against taking it, either covertly (NSA scraping it from the wires or device installed in data center) or overtly (secret court order to fork over data).

Seriously, the government can't do anything to 'stop terrorism' using their current methods because they're collecting too much data for anyone to react to fast enough.  I'm thinking it is (or eventually will be) more for targeted blackmail of persons of interest, and to try to manipulate the attitudes of the populace to suit their wants.  Yeah, that's the tinfoil talking.  But if it's not true, it's not because government is benevolent, it's because it's inept.  Power breeds corruption, unfortunately.


/end ranting ramble

And yes, I use Windows 10.  Ads don't bother me.  Government does, but the solution for that is at the ballot box (and praying it doesn't ever come to anything more than that <- HEY, I'm on a list!)

[Luis Dias]

While I'm sympathetic to some level of paranoia, there are limits that are hardcoded by sanity itself.

[jr2]

Let's put it this way, I'm paranoid, but I also realize that safeguards are in-place (both in the mechanics of government, and in the sense that it'd ultimately be self-defeating) to prevent hard-core government overreach.  I'm under no illusion that a worrisome number of officials would just love to go all power-crazy if given the chance with a low enough risk factor, however.

It's common sense.  If you're a bullying asshat, and like shoving people around, but you have enough self-control and patience to realize you can't overtly do that (or you end up in jail), what do you do to feed your hobby?  You get into a position of power, of course.  Hence positions of responsibility will always have a disproportionate amount of asshats in them.

[CP5670]

Win10 core data collection cannot be stopped.

What they really mean is that Microsoft doesn't provide an "official" method of doing it. These things can be changed if you make a little effort. Look up "Destroy Windows Spying" and other similar tools, which even add the all the Microsoft telemetry servers to the hosts file. I didn't feel the need to go that far, but did shut down some services and scheduled tasks. Also, even at its worst Microsoft is doing what Apple and Google have done for years, and some Linux distributions are going the same way as well.

[Luis Dias]

Yeees, and what all these corporations have been doing for years is to build this giganormous megarobot eye that will control every single one of us and eventually directly dictate through our minds what we should think and do! Don't be naive! This is what they're doing to us! Wait. No. Not the needle again. Not the NEEEEDLE

[jr2]

Win10 core data collection cannot be stopped.

What they really mean is that Microsoft doesn't provide an "official" method of doing it. These things can be changed if you make a little effort. Look up "Destroy Windows Spying" and other similar tools, which even add the all the Microsoft telemetry servers to the hosts file. I didn't feel the need to go that far, but did shut down some services and scheduled tasks. Also, even at its worst Microsoft is doing what Apple and Google have done for years, and some Linux distributions are going the same way as well.

Does O&O ShutUp10 do all of that?  'cause it's pretty convenient & easy-to-use.

[Klaustrophobia]

Christ how can ANYONE be placated by the "it's been happening already so it's fine now" argument?  THIS is how they get away with pushing ever more intrusiveness on us, and the reason that we don't have a choice leading to the other argument of "well that's just the way it is, get used to it".

**** that.  I'll keep using my 2006 XP laptop.

[MP-Ryan]

HLP appears to be in serious danger of running out of tinfoil.

Here are your options:
1.  Use an out-dated version of Windows with security flaws you can drive a truck through.
2.  Use MacOS, which does more or less what Windows 10 does.
3.  Use Linux, which does slightly less of what Windows and MacOS do but still has support issues and is moving that way anyway.
4.  Use an OS that doesn't support the majority of end-user applications.
5.  Use Windows 10 and customize its privacy settings.

Furthermore, if data exists in a digital format on a device that is physically or electronically accessible:
- Any bad guy that wants it can get it with a sufficient amount of time investment.
- Any government that wants it can do the same.
- Your own government can get it with a trivial amount of effort in the form of a warrant if they believe you guilty of wrongdoing.
- The dumbass crackhead down the street who failed elementary school math can get the machine with it on it.

Computer security is not about making things impossible; like most security issues, it's about sufficient hardening of a target to make it annoying and time-consuming as possible for an attacker to get what you don't want them to get.

Personally, I could give a **** if Google and Microsoft collect parts of my browsing history in aggregated data. I ESPECIALLY find it laughable that people worry about government access to your data.  You are a bacterium on a dirt-covered needle in one of several billion haystacks.  Nobody cares about you.  You are an anonymous number.  Privacy is important - I do my utmost to protect mine - but it is all about risk assessment versus inconvenience.  You have a far greater risk of losing something important to someone who will do things you do not want them to do with it by using outdated software in some crazy notion of privacy protection when 0days are a dime a dozen than you ever will through anonymized data aggregation.  That's just simple math.

On the other hand, if you (general you) don't want to use Windows 10 because <insert reason here>, fill your boots.  Affects me not one whit.  The purpose of this thread was to answer a question for users who hadn't made up their mind, not convince true believers to recycle their hats.

[S-99]

You might have a point.

So you are not ever going to run a Microsoft OS again?  Cause from what I hear, they're patching Windows 7 & 8/8.1 to do the same thing.

I do have a point, i have expanded my thinking toward what this spying and infrastructure are and use for. I haven't been a windows user for a long time. I don't just run any of the distributions of linux out there either. I run my own.

Anyways, even being paranoid enough to not allow all sorts of spying from smart devices, FB, MS, etc etc -- that puts you on a list too, I'm sure.  The people paranoid enough to categorize the entire populace based on data they illicitly obtained, will probably categorize someone who eludes their efforts as more of a threat than someone with known terrorist ties.

You call me paranoid while you are void and numb. Thanks for the threat that i might be on a list. The idea is that we're all on the same list. Sorry you might not like to hear what i have to say simply because it is not popular. But it is true.

Want to fix it?  Vote in people like Rand Paul, who actually know what the 4th Amendment in the Bill of Rights (<-read that if any of you haven't, it's good stuff) means, and support it.

Voting doesn't help. You tend to notice this when the new person in office after new person in office keeps upgrading and oiling the big spying aparatus.

Companies spying, well, I odn't know what they are really going to do about it.  All they want to do is get money, and the best way to do that is to offer you things they you might want, and to increase their chances of that, they need to know more about you.

Companies want money, but a lot of the time they aren't offering us what we want. Products that do what we want them to do. You're reasoning for the inclusive spying in anything just because of the money is very short sighted.

However, the concerning thing is, the government would be very interested in access to that some data, and wouldn't have much against taking it, either covertly (NSA scraping it from the wires or device installed in data center) or overtly (secret court order to fork over data).

I differ. The government has access to all of that data.

Seriously, the government can't do anything to 'stop terrorism' using their current methods because they're collecting too much data for anyone to react to fast enough.  I'm thinking it is (or eventually will be) more for targeted blackmail of persons of interest, and to try to manipulate the attitudes of the populace to suit their wants.  Yeah, that's the tinfoil talking.  But if it's not true, it's not because government is benevolent, it's because it's inept.  Power breeds corruption, unfortunately.

They could react faster if they wanted. The artificial war on terrorism is to treat us all as potential terrorists.

And yes, I use Windows 10.  Ads don't bother me.  Government does, but the solution for that is at the ballot box (and praying it doesn't ever come to anything more than that <- HEY, I'm on a list!)

The way you talk, dismiss, reduce, and ignore leads many to find you contradictory. You want to be deceived, and be deceived.

HLP appears to be in serious danger of running out of tinfoil.

Here are your options:
1.  Use an out-dated version of Windows with security flaws you can drive a truck through.
2.  Use MacOS, which does more or less what Windows 10 does.
3.  Use Linux, which does slightly less of what Windows and MacOS do but still has support issues and is moving that way anyway.
4.  Use an OS that doesn't support the majority of end-user applications.
5.  Use Windows 10 and customize its privacy settings.

Furthermore, if data exists in a digital format on a device that is physically or electronically accessible:
- Any bad guy that wants it can get it with a sufficient amount of time investment.
- Any government that wants it can do the same.
- Your own government can get it with a trivial amount of effort in the form of a warrant if they believe you guilty of wrongdoing.
- The dumbass crackhead down the street who failed elementary school math can get the machine with it on it.

Computer security is not about making things impossible; like most security issues, it's about sufficient hardening of a target to make it annoying and time-consuming as possible for an attacker to get what you don't want them to get.

Personally, I could give a **** if Google and Microsoft collect parts of my browsing history in aggregated data. I ESPECIALLY find it laughable that people worry about government access to your data.  You are a bacterium on a dirt-covered needle in one of several billion haystacks.  Nobody cares about you.  You are an anonymous number.  Privacy is important - I do my utmost to protect mine - but it is all about risk assessment versus inconvenience.  You have a far greater risk of losing something important to someone who will do things you do not want them to do with it by using outdated software in some crazy notion of privacy protection when 0days are a dime a dozen than you ever will through anonymized data aggregation.  That's just simple math.

On the other hand, if you (general you) don't want to use Windows 10 because <insert reason here>, fill your boots.  Affects me not one whit.  The purpose of this thread was to answer a question for users who hadn't made up their mind, not convince true believers to recycle their hats.

Is there anything else you have to say that isn't just the maligned usual FUD?

[The E]

Dude, if there is a source of FUD here, it's you.

[Luis Dias]

Never antagonize a religious person, they might end up becoming radicalized and that's something we all want to avoid in current year.

[Phantom Hoover]

Personally, I could give a **** if Google and Microsoft collect parts of my browsing history in aggregated data. I ESPECIALLY find it laughable that people worry about government access to your data.  You are a bacterium on a dirt-covered needle in one of several billion haystacks.  Nobody cares about you.  You are an anonymous number.  Privacy is important - I do my utmost to protect mine - but it is all about risk assessment versus inconvenience.  You have a far greater risk of losing something important to someone who will do things you do not want them to do with it by using outdated software in some crazy notion of privacy protection when 0days are a dime a dozen than you ever will through anonymized data aggregation.  That's just simple math.

I just find it extremely uncomfortable seeing everything I do tracked, packaged, sold off to advertisers and used to leverage me into buying things. I can't browse Youtube outside incognito mode simply because my skin crawls when I see 'recommended videos' clearly based off something I watched the other day. I have very little interest in using an entire operating system built around doing that.

[CP5670]

Win10 core data collection cannot be stopped.

What they really mean is that Microsoft doesn't provide an "official" method of doing it. These things can be changed if you make a little effort. Look up "Destroy Windows Spying" and other similar tools, which even add the all the Microsoft telemetry servers to the hosts file. I didn't feel the need to go that far, but did shut down some services and scheduled tasks. Also, even at its worst Microsoft is doing what Apple and Google have done for years, and some Linux distributions are going the same way as well.

Does O&O ShutUp10 do all of that?  'cause it's pretty convenient & easy-to-use.

This tool is quite nice. I used it turn off a few more things. It also does things that the OS already supports in the sense of having registry flags for it (not necessarily control panel options), while DWS does things like modifying the hosts file or deleting programs. One thing I'm reading is that major upgrades, like RS1 coming out next week, may reset some of these options, so they should be checked periodically.

[Grizzly]

Personally, I could give a **** if Google and Microsoft collect parts of my browsing history in aggregated data. I ESPECIALLY find it laughable that people worry about government access to your data.  You are a bacterium on a dirt-covered needle in one of several billion haystacks.  Nobody cares about you.  You are an anonymous number.  Privacy is important - I do my utmost to protect mine - but it is all about risk assessment versus inconvenience.  You have a far greater risk of losing something important to someone who will do things you do not want them to do with it by using outdated software in some crazy notion of privacy protection when 0days are a dime a dozen than you ever will through anonymized data aggregation.  That's just simple math.

I just find it extremely uncomfortable seeing everything I do tracked, packaged, sold off to advertisers and used to leverage me into buying things. I can't browse Youtube outside incognito mode simply because my skin crawls when I see 'recommended videos' clearly based off something I watched the other day. I have very little interest in using an entire operating system built around doing that.

You can set firefox to delete cookies every time you close the browser, that should get rid of that.

[MP-Ryan]

I just find it extremely uncomfortable seeing everything I do tracked, packaged, sold off to advertisers and used to leverage me into buying things. I can't browse Youtube outside incognito mode simply because my skin crawls when I see 'recommended videos' clearly based off something I watched the other day. I have very little interest in using an entire operating system built around doing that.

I hear you.  I use browser extensions like NoScript, AdBlock, Privacybadger, and HTTPSEverywhere.  I turn on Do Not Track.  I clear cookies and browsing history.  I customize security settings in every application I install.  I run EMET.  I've combed through every Windows 10 personalization and privacy setting and adjusted everything I'm not comfortable with.

It's possible to be security conscious, prudent, and retain application compatibility (and security fixes!) without crossing into the realm of irrational.  For any "regular" end user, the risk-reward is always going to be a lot better on the latest OS receiving the latest security patches than it is on older hardware.  If you don't have a corporate security team behind you and a compelling need to remain on it due to driver/application support, staying on Windows 7 is a really bad idea at this point.  Windows 8/8.1 doubly so because it's simply a terrible UI experience.

The majority of the user-specific data collection in Windows 10 can be readily turned off.  The rest, at least from my perspective, isn't really worth getting worked up about at this point.

[S-99]

Dude, if there is a source of FUD here, it's you.

Linux is better than the popular misinterpretations of it that help prevent it's adoption

Never antagonize a religious person, they might end up becoming radicalized and that's something we all want to avoid in current year.

Who says i'm religious?
I just wonder if there's anything more than ignorance and dismissal you guys have to throw at me.

I know it's about in one ear, out the other. Are people this concerned with that much of a preference of hearing only what they want to hear that it keeps them from evolving a thought to form a what if possibility to see reality through many different scenarios to provide understanding.

Spying on everybody 24/7 is more than just about the money. I choose not to use an OS where spying is the main center piece of it's function.

[Mongoose]

Dude, if there is a source of FUD here, it's you.

Linux is better than the popular misinterpretations of it that help prevent it's adoption

I once tried to get a build of Ubuntu running on my old ****box Dell just to get a stupid penguin item in Team Fortress 2.  Many hours of frustration and pulled-out hairs later, the basic desktop environment still ran like a snail because (as far as I could tell) my video card drivers never managed to play nice.  Once was enough for me.

[Luis Dias]

I know it's about in one ear, out the other.

"Nobody listens to me! The fools!"

[Phantom Hoover]

I hear you.  I use browser extensions like NoScript, AdBlock, Privacybadger, and HTTPSEverywhere.  I turn on Do Not Track.  I clear cookies and browsing history.  I customize security settings in every application I install.  I run EMET.  I've combed through every Windows 10 personalization and privacy setting and adjusted everything I'm not comfortable with.

Sure. And Windows 10 crosses a(n entirely subjective and arbitrary) line for me, because I've used Facebook and I know how the "we've made some small updates to the privacy settings" dance goes, and because it can actually index all my files and searches rather than my interactions with one ****ty website.