[CP5670]

Again, I can't agree... I don't know if ATI cares about "old games" and OpenGL... But at least nVidia should. And there are ENOUGH gamers that want to play "old" games. Old AND new games. And I don't think that they're only a few people...

The fact is that neither company cares about old games. Driver updates on both sides frequently break stuff in old games and the problems often never get fixed. I can list many examples of this. There actually aren't that many people who play older games on a regular basis. Most of us here do, but this is after all a forum for an older game.

In any case, I don't see OpenGL going anywhere. It will continue to be supported by the GPU companies to at least some degree because it's still dominant outside the Windows gaming scene. The other markets are all much smaller of course, but still significant enough that they can't afford to neglect it completely.

[karajorma]

Actually MS may have opened the door for OpenGL wider than it's been in a long time. The fact that DX10 only works on Vista basically means that the newest features are not available to users on XP via Direct X.

Right now it's commercial suicide to develop Vista only games and cut out 90% of your userbase. Similarly it's commercial suicide to not have the best graphics hardware will allow. Sticking to DX9 means they can't use shader model 4. Moving to OpenGL would cut out a lot of problems for developers in both respects. Especially since programming for Direct X is one of the major barriers preventing developers milking a successful title by porting it to Mac OS.

Will the companies abandon DX? Doubt it.
Will they start using OGL a bit more in light of what I've just said? Could happen. Depends on if they think of it, if OGL lets them do tricks that look as good as DX10 (or at least better than DX9) and if it's cost effective to do it.

[DaBrain]

Will they start using OGL a bit more in light of what I've just said?

Depends on the other platforms they develop it for.

If it's for the PS3, or maybe the Mac, there will be a DX9 a DX10 and an OpenGL Renderer. I guess some developers might think about switching to OpenGL.

If it's for the Xbox360, I doubt the PC version would get OpenGL support, even if it's also for the PS3.

[blackhole]

Will they start using OGL a bit more in light of what I've just said? Could happen. Depends on if they think of it, if OGL lets them do tricks that look as good as DX10 (or at least better than DX9) and if it's cost effective to do it.

The primary reason the new DX10 features aren't being used is because no one has the hardware - this carries over to openGL.

[Mehrpack]

The FIRST UT IS old... But ALL UT-Series had OpenGL! Even UT2004!

hi,
yeah, right, forget it, sorry.

Oh... So gamers don't use Modelling-Programs? So the FSO-People that made the High-Poly Models are all professional CAD-Users or something like this?
Believe me. There are ENOUGH Programs that are relevant for gamers that use OpenGL! And there STILL are enough OpenGL-Games. And, by the way, the Quadro-Drivers are only slightly modified "normal" nVidia-Drivers, AFAIK.

ok, persuaded.

afaik the quadro and ragefire driver a speratly development with total other focus.
but maybe in the meantime they have chance thier development structor, that information is a little bit old and they are so open about informations how they development thiere driver.

Well... I can't agree with that... As I said: There are enough programs and games that are using OpenGL. And I think that these WILL be further used/developed in the future.

yeah i forget the programms in the middle .

Again, I can't agree... I don't know if ATI cares about "old games" and OpenGL... But at least nVidia should. And there are ENOUGH gamers that want to play "old" games. Old AND new games. And I don't think that they're only a few people...

but not the mass and often people doesnt know 3 oder 4 years old games, and for the mass only are grafic important.
often you had trouble with older games, in the past ATI was with support of older games a bit better as Nvidia, but today maybe its chance the situationen or both on the same level.

Well... I don't see this problem. At least not in the "near future".

yeah no problem, sometimes i see a little more black in the world as the rest, but sometimes im right 
i think we will see, but i dont hope that im right.

Actually MS may have opened the door for OpenGL wider than it's been in a long time. The fact that DX10 only works on Vista basically means that the newest features are not available to users on XP via Direct X.

Right now it's commercial suicide to develop Vista only games and cut out 90% of your userbase. Similarly it's commercial suicide to not have the best graphics hardware will allow. Sticking to DX9 means they can't use shader model 4. Moving to OpenGL would cut out a lot of problems for developers in both respects. Especially since programming for Direct X is one of the major barriers preventing developers milking a successful title by porting it to Mac OS.

Will the companies abandon DX? Doubt it.
Will they start using OGL a bit more in light of what I've just said? Could happen. Depends on if they think of it, if OGL lets them do tricks that look as good as DX10 (or at least better than DX9) and if it's cost effective to do it.

in the first place i had so think too, but in the meantime i had chance a bit my mind.
why?

first to development games need time.
thats mean the first real games they use really the features of D3D 10 will came in the end of this year, but the mass will released in 2008/2009. (i doesnt count only games they use D3D 10 only for more speed or only use the rendering but have the same effects)

the next thing is, in this time are sells pc, the new pcs are selling with vista and the most causal games buy complett pc, so imho in the next 2 years will come to the most causal gamers vista over a new pc.

and then the time is money thing, the most modern engines have a 3.0 or a 2.0 render.
i think the most coders havent the time to code two new renders in the engine, a 4.0 and OpenGL, maybe thats wrong, but if we take a look at the markt and how many games in the last time released with bugs and how small in a serie sometimes the grafic chances are be, then i think thats a realistic szenario.

i think only the situation of 4.0 ak Direct 3D 10 only for vista will not itsself bring a boom of OpenGL used engines.

but i think that over a long time it will help that the solds of Mac`s are rise and thats today the crossplattform development more and more are important.
i hope thats enough to bring OpenGL back in the focus of the decision maker in the gaming industrie, so that in the future the gaming titels with OpenGL support will rise and thats we will someday have a complettly alternativ to direct X itsself, that will run on Mac and Linux.
i believe if we have a counterpart to direct X thats open to other system will help to break the monopol of microsoft.
today entertainment a important and games part in the use of pc and thiere have at the moment alternativs to windows problems.

Mehrpack

[Mehrpack]

The primary reason the new DX10 features aren't being used is because no one has the hardware - this carries over to openGL.

hi,
yes at the moment is the saturation of hardware really low, they can handle SM 4.0.
i think they are so by 2%, not more as 5% by pc they used for gaming.

but i think this christmas the percent will rise, at the latest are killergames like crysis or the next unreal tournament will released, because i think a lot of people plan thiere hardware / computer upgrade on the base of such games.

Mehrpack