[General Battuta]

Fix please! Particularly awkward when the player is a capship.

[Spoon]

I remember asking this way back in the day and all I got back then were dumb response like "intended behavior lol"

[m!m]

According to the code it is intended behavior (https://github.com/scp-fs2open/fs2open.github.com/blob/master/code/hud/hudtarget.cpp#L5295) but that restriction doesn't make any sense.
Any objections against removing it (patch attached)?

[attachment deleted by nobody]

[The E]

None from me.

[AdmiralRalwood]

According to the code it is intended behavior (https://github.com/scp-fs2open/fs2open.github.com/blob/master/code/hud/hudtarget.cpp#L5295) but that restriction doesn't make any sense.
Any objections against removing it (patch attached)?

Assuming it doesn't cause any errors elsewhere (and I can't imagine why it would, but hey, this is Codethulhu we're talking about), it sounds good to me.

[m!m]

Committed to trunk in revision 11294.

[General Battuta]

You guys are the best, thanks.

[Goober5000]

If you know something was discussed in the past, it's worth searching to see if you can find the old discussion.  If you make a habit of blithely changing things in the code you run the risk of shooting yourself in the foot eventually.  Keep in mind the principle of Chesterton's Fence:

In the matter of reforming things, as distinct from deforming them, there is one plain and simple principle; a principle which will probably be called a paradox. There exists in such a case a certain institution or law; let us say, for the sake of simplicity, a fence or gate erected across a road. The more modern type of reformer goes gaily up to it and says, “I don’t see the use of this; let us clear it away.” To which the more intelligent type of reformer will do well to answer: “If you don’t see the use of it, I certainly won’t let you clear it away. Go away and think. Then, when you can come back and tell me that you do see the use of it, I may allow you to destroy it.

Three members of the SCP posted in this thread and said "I don't know why this restriction exists, but rather than doing research on it I'm just going to assume it's wrong."  That is disappointing.

Here is the old discussion:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=66467.0

The point raised in that thread was that the callsign code is used for more things than just messages.  Do you want to look at your escort list and see "Admiral Calder  97%"?

[AdmiralRalwood]

The point raised in that thread was that the callsign code is used for more things than just messages.  Do you want to look at your escort list and see "Admiral Calder  97%"?

...Yes? If you don't, you just won't give the ship a callsign in the first place.

[Spoon]

Goober... 

[The E]

If you know something was discussed in the past, it's worth searching to see if you can find the old discussion.  If you make a habit of blithely changing things in the code you run the risk of shooting yourself in the foot eventually.  Keep in mind the principle of Chesterton's Fence:

In the matter of reforming things, as distinct from deforming them, there is one plain and simple principle; a principle which will probably be called a paradox. There exists in such a case a certain institution or law; let us say, for the sake of simplicity, a fence or gate erected across a road. The more modern type of reformer goes gaily up to it and says, “I don’t see the use of this; let us clear it away.” To which the more intelligent type of reformer will do well to answer: “If you don’t see the use of it, I certainly won’t let you clear it away. Go away and think. Then, when you can come back and tell me that you do see the use of it, I may allow you to destroy it.

Three members of the SCP posted in this thread and said "I don't know why this restriction exists, but rather than doing research on it I'm just going to assume it's wrong."  That is disappointing.

Here is the old discussion:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=66467.0

The point raised in that thread was that the callsign code is used for more things than just messages.  Do you want to look at your escort list and see "Admiral Calder  97%"?

Except that the escort list is not using callsigns, apparently. The only gauges that are are the message brackets, the target and target box gauges. Personally, I feel like allowing capship callsigns to pop up there is not a big deal, and making the behaviour for callsigns the same everywhere is better than having an intransparent restriction on them.

[NGTM-1R]

The point raised in that thread was that the callsign code is used for more things than just messages.  Do you want to look at your escort list and see "Admiral Calder  97%"?

Of course, even a cursory attempt to actually play a campaign using callsigns would have taught you that this is not something that actually happens when you assign something with one to escort list, even a fighter.

Three SCP members posted because they've probably played campaigns that use callsigns recently. Have you? It's all well and good to pretend you're some kind of code-memorizing genius but you must not lose touch with what the game actually does when you boot it up and play it. The code exists to create the end product.

Or maybe I'm the only guy who ever assigns named wingmen characters to my escort list. But I kind of doubt that.

[The E]

That's a bit uncalled for, NGTM1R. Let's focus on solving the issues, not go all ad hom.

[Spoon]

That's a bit uncalled for, NGTM1R. Let's focus on solving the issues, not go all ad hom.

NGTM-1R posted what I was going to say, but ended up not doing. It would... help... if Goober could get with the times on these things.

[Goober5000]

The point raised in that thread was that the callsign code is used for more things than just messages.  Do you want to look at your escort list and see "Admiral Calder  97%"?

...Yes? If you don't, you just won't give the ship a callsign in the first place.

Fair enough then.

Goober... 

If you have something to say, then say it.

Except that the escort list is not using callsigns, apparently. The only gauges that are are the message brackets, the target and target box gauges. Personally, I feel like allowing capship callsigns to pop up there is not a big deal, and making the behaviour for callsigns the same everywhere is better than having an intransparent restriction on them.

You're right, I just checked and they're not on the escort list.  I based my comment on what I said in the old thread.  Either I was mistaken at the time or the behavior has changed since then.

And you're also right, it's not a big deal.  However, given how cavalierly the issue was being addressed, I wanted to use this to make a more general point about understanding the consequences of changes.

Three SCP members posted because they've probably played campaigns that use callsigns recently. Have you? It's all well and good to pretend you're some kind of code-memorizing genius but you must not lose touch with what the game actually does when you boot it up and play it. The code exists to create the end product.

It is precisely "losing touch with what the game actually does" that I am addressing.  Three SCP members posted "it is intended behavior that doesn't make sense", "no objections", and "assuming it doesn't cause errors elsewhere".  None of the three of those statements indicated that they had bothered to investigate the issue.