[Luis Dias]

They have a sufficient number of Zods to pull a much better economy and apparently a much more effective and powerful fleet than their terran GTA counterparts. I think that's all we need to know so far.

[Drogoth]

They have a sufficient number of Zods to pull a much better economy and apparently a much more effective and powerful fleet than their terran GTA counterparts. I think that's all we need to know so far.

Hardly. We have zero idea what the Zod colonization levels were at prior to the Great War. Allthough again, based on the reason for the colonization efforts I expect they are higher then Terran levels.

About half of the TOTAL Terran population was concentrated on Sol, and the Terran colony worlds may well have been much more sparsely populated and developed then their Vasudan counterparts.

Also their better economy/fleet seem to have a lot more to do with Terran fixation on the Sol portal, as well as the disproportional losses borne by Terran fleet elements in the second incursion, as well as hey you know, the straight up explosion of a Terran system.

There are enough competing factors, and too little information on Vasudan colonization levels to draw any kind of assertion of the population density on Vasuda Prime based on Vasudan economic performance during BP.

[qwadtep]

We don't know for sure, but considering what the Shivan bombardment turned Earth into, in the other universe, it seems likely that the same would have happened to Vasuda prime.

I want to point out that the "other" Earth was probably bombarded by more than a single ship unlike Vasuda Prime (which was only attacked by the lucifer itself if I remember correctly) And with that I doubt Vasuda Prime is as heavily devestated as the Earth we seen in the parallel universe. Though some could say that the Lucifers main firepower and a continued bombardment over serveral hours turns everything to ash.

From AoA:

Earth as we knew her is no more. Her proud cities, forests, countless animal species and ecosystems are gone. Our stations and ships, including the 1st Fleet, are nowhere to be found. Instead, a debris field rings our planet, while nothing but scorch marks are all that is left on the ground. By all appearances, our Earth and her colonies throughout the system have suffered the same fate as Vasuda Prime.

[Drogoth]

We don't know for sure, but considering what the Shivan bombardment turned Earth into, in the other universe, it seems likely that the same would have happened to Vasuda prime.

I want to point out that the "other" Earth was probably bombarded by more than a single ship unlike Vasuda Prime (which was only attacked by the lucifer itself if I remember correctly) And with that I doubt Vasuda Prime is as heavily devestated as the Earth we seen in the parallel universe. Though some could say that the Lucifers main firepower and a continued bombardment over serveral hours turns everything to ash.

From AoA:

Earth as we knew her is no more. Her proud cities, forests, countless animal species and ecosystems are gone. Our stations and ships, including the 1st Fleet, are nowhere to be found. Instead, a debris field rings our planet, while nothing but scorch marks are all that is left on the ground. By all appearances, our Earth and her colonies throughout the system have suffered the same fate as Vasuda Prime.

Which could mean anything from 'exact replica' to 'also got roflpwned by shivans'

[Luis Dias]

They have a sufficient number of Zods to pull a much better economy and apparently a much more effective and powerful fleet than their terran GTA counterparts. I think that's all we need to know so far.

Hardly.

What do you mean "hardly"? Give me a reason I should bother so much about the past effective events on Zod worlds? All I care is that they have, for a variety of undisclosed (and probably unimportant) and disclosed factors, a much wealthier and powerful economy and war machine. The only important factors we should focus on is the (1) Vasudan mindset (which allowed them to move on) and (2) their focus on rebuilding their economy and war machine instead of a white elephant project like the Sol Gate. Does it matter really how many billions survived Vasuda Prime? Really.

[Drogoth]

My apologies Luis, I read your 'all we need to know' as saying they evidently evacuated a lot of people rather then it simply being an unimportant consideration.

[CT27]

A while back there was a thread on here about the range of possibilities about how WIH could end.

What is the most realistic best-case scenario for the GTVA?  Is a non-pyric victory possible?

[CT27]

Since it looks like there's a possibility of Shivans/Vishnans intervening, is there any hope for the GTVA if/when Byrne dials 1-800-VISHNAN?

[General Battuta]

Man, you are really keyed up about the GTVA's chances, given that all current evidence points to an overwhelming military victory on their part.

[CT27]

But that could basically go out the window in an instant if the Vishnans or Shivans make an appearance in WIH as many are speculating.

[SaltyWaffles]

Man, you are really keyed up about the GTVA's chances, given that all current evidence points to an overwhelming military victory on their part.

*Military* victory. It would be right up the Federation's alley to play things out in a way in which the *military* victory is less significant than the other aspects--the cultural, political, or fantastical (i.e., Nagari and Shambala). That, and GTA's growing problem is that they're struggling to beat a Federation that they've claimed is so weak and unable to adapt that its mere survival would fatally compromise humanity's security against the Shivans. If you have to resort to bringing in a huge portion of your forces to overwhelm the enemy with sheer numbers (not because of a qualitative disadvantage, but because it would take far too long and be too risky otherwise), maybe their adaptability and military strength isn't nearly as weak as you've been led to believe.

The Tevs--and the Alliance--are extremely powerful, but they have a number of deep, growing cracks that, if hit with the right angle and force, could break the Alliance apart. The Tevs seek to quickly crush the UEF before those cracks grow further, all the while preventing the existing cracks from being struck. The UEF seeks to strike those cracks and wear at them, and buy time for them to continue to do so.

[Phantom Hoover]

Man, you are really keyed up about the GTVA's chances, given that all current evidence points to an overwhelming military victory on their part.

that's what's called 'tempting fate'

[CT27]

I apologize if people think I'm posting too much. 

Yes, I know the GTVA 'currently' holds a military advantage.  I started this thread after the first WIH release.  At the end of Tenebra it looks like supernatural intervention may not be out of the question, that's why I asked what I did.  I wasn't trying to be a GTVA fanboy, but this is a thread meant to be on what the GTVA can do to win so I didn't think I was out of line.

[General Battuta]

Supernatural intervention is totally out of the question.

[Phantom Hoover]

:/ You know what he means.

[Gray113]

Supernatural intervention is totally out of the question.

That sucks I wanted vampires (how else could the elders have lived so long? )

Maybe Steele to come back as a space zombie in BP3 as well..

[Luis Dias]

Shivans are zombies or at least zimbos.

[SaltyWaffles]

I have to admit, an all-in attack on Earth seems...unnecessarily risky to me.

Bringing in just the first two destroyer groups, an attack on Mars seems like a much safer bet. Byrne would be very hesitant to commit much force to defend just Mars, allowing Second and Third Fleet to be whittled down significantly in a short time. Then, rotate out the two destroyer groups, and bring the other two in to finish the job with the grand battle at Earth.

With the Hecate destroyers, put their main advantages to bear on suppressing UEF fighter dominance while countering the UEF bomber corps. Trebuchet spam from Herc's, lots of Perseus fighters (also with a bank of Trebs each), flying in close proximity to allied warships.

[Klaustrophobia]

i think most people greatly overestimate trebs.  they aren't automatic kills.  they're not even particularly likely kills, except maybe against bombers (that the UEF doesn't frequently field, and almost certainly not in a fashion that would be vulnerable to a dedicated treb strike).  fighters can rather easily dodge them.  if there's cover (and the pilots aren't idiots), there is ZERO chance of a kill.

[Terminator]

As an armchair deep space tactician, I would envision treb spam to be used more frequently for the purpose of disarming capital ships. I suppose you could fire trebs at fighters on purpose in order to force them to dodge the trebs, or take cover, all of that being a distraction while your bombers move in for the kill.