Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Singh on September 30, 2005, 11:38:49 pm
-
Ok, time to re-do the previous research, for hte sake of formatting and because I missed quite a few things in the first few missions.
Let's start with Mission 01:
Mission name: Surrender Belisarius![/u]
Brief Description:[/u]
You are deployed to assist a wing of Satis class transports as they come under assault by several NTF forces. We have to hold out till the GVD Psamtik arrives on the scene. AFter it does, we are faced with a hostile confrontation with the Belisarius, a NTF corvette.
Ships in Mission/Class:[/u]
NTCv Belisarius/GTCv Deimos
GVD Psamtik/GVD Hasheput (i cant spell it for nuts)
Iota Wing/GVFr Satis
Alpha Wing
Special Characters involved (if any):[/u]
NA
Mission Name Analysis and links:[/u]
Belisarius was an actual General in history, and one of the best, from what it seems.
Article (http://www.authorama.com/famous-men-of-the-middle-ages-9.html)
Article 2 (http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/encyclopaedia/hutchinson/m0071675.html)
Excerpt from the 1st article:
He had many wars during his reign, but he himself did not take part in them. He was not experienced as a soldier, for he had spent most of his time in study. He was fortunate enough, however, to have two great generals to lead his armies. One of them was named Belisarius and the other Narses.
Belisarius was one of the greatest soldiers that ever lived. He gained wonderful victories for Justinian, and conquered some of the old Roman provinces that had been lost for many years.
While it explains the mission name quite well, the more interesting relation is with the ship names.
Mission Ships/Class Analysis and links:[/u]
Belisarius....from the wikipedia, I managed to get quite a few interesting tidbits regarding the name and the general - he not only features in history, but in several science fiction novels as well.
(from wikipedia)
Belisarius appears in the famous alternate history novel Lest Darkness Fall (1939) by L. Sprague de Camp. There he was first the Byzantine opponent of the time traveler Martin Padway who tried to spread modern science and inventions in Gothic Italy. Eventually Belisarius became general in Padway's army and secured Italy for him.
Belisarius is also the main character of the Belisarius series of science fiction novels by Eric Flint and David Drake, an alternate history exploring what might have happened if Belisarius (and a rival) were granted knowledge of future events and technologies.
In the General series of military science fiction novels by S.M. Stirling and David Drake, the plot draws much from the life and campaigns of Belisarius; the main character, Raj Whitehall, sets out to reunite the planet of Bellevue after the fall of galactic civilization.
Isaac Asimov, who was very familiar with Roman history, seems to have loosely based the character and name of General Bel Riose, "The Last Great General" of the late Galactic Empire in the Foundation Series, on Belisarius.
This is...quite interesting, but there doesn't seem to be any connection to the other major name in this mission: Psamtik.
Article (http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/psamtik1.htm)
Psamtik appears to have been a major Egyptian king. Although there appears to be little connection with Belisarius, other than the fact that both were instrumental in the foundation of their empires. This is probably true - as we have Witnessed, the GVD Psamtik was a major destroyer that won many campiagns for the GTVA, and could be directly connected with many other victories. Although we have no way to find evidence for the same with the NTCv Belisarius. However, one has to realize - it probably WAS succesfull. The Belisarius might have managed to distract and draw off GTVA forces long enough (perhaps that is the reason it was damaged? Maybe it came in directly from another fight?) for Admiral Bosch to follow through with this plan? After all, a Terran Corvette can be a hell of a distraction - and apperantly was so, as the GTVA had lost two cruisers and nearly 15 wings of fighters prior to the mission. So, yes, in a sense it had succeeded, but where history diverges is the cause of death in this case.
Another interesting connection is between Psamtik and the Satis class freighters.
From the article on Psamtik 1
During the remaining four decades of Psammetikhos I's rule, he continued to consolidate his power and bring the country under complete unity, something Egypt had really not seen in a number of years. He undertook a number of building projects, including fortresses in the Delta at Naukratis and Daphnae, as well as at Elephantine. He also greatly expanded the Serapeum at Saqqara.
And this is from the Pantheon.org entry for Satis:
"Queen of Elephantine", who was worshipped by the ancient Egyptians on that island in the Nile. Her primary role was that of a guardian of Egypt's southern (Nubian) frontier, killing enemies of the pharaoh with her arrows. Satis was also associated with the annual inundation of the Nile. With the god Chnum and the goddess Anuket she forms, what is occasinally referred to as, the 'Elephantine triad'. On her head she wears the crown of Upper Egypt, flanked by the gazelle horns, and in her hands she holds a sceptre and the ankh.
Rather interesting connection, don't you think?
Mission events/description analysis and links:[/u]
The mission events and description here aren't much. BUT, there is yet another connection - this time between Deneb and Cygnus prime.
Deneb (http://www.astro.uiuc.edu/~kaler/sow/deneb.html)
DENEB (Alpha Cygni). One of the truly great stars of our Galaxy, Deneb serves a three-fold role among the constellations. Its very name tells the first. "Deneb" is from an Arabic word meaning "tail," as this first magnitude (1.25) star, the 19th brightest as it appears in our sky, represents the tail of Cygnus the Swan, a classical figure seen flying perpetually to the south along the route of the Milky Way. As the constellation's luminary, the star is also Alpha Cygni. The
Not much of a connection, right? But then I ran a search of Cygnus Prime, and got this:
From :v: Watch (http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/fanfic/scorpius/tie.shtml)
According to the ruins at Altair the Shivans were a species built by the Ancients using brain data of their dead rulers to manifest the shells they created. The Ancients built space faring vessels four hundred and fifty thousand years ago. They expanded to the far reaches of space. Similar ruins have been found on Cygnus Prime, Vasuda Prime and in the system of Capella. These systems have small ruins as if they were outposts.
Its still not a connection, but yes, it is relevant to the discussion at hand.
Any misc. notes as well as possible connections between the a/m three analysis.[/u]
-
Hold on a second!
That article on freespacewatch.....it's...odd....I've never actually seen it before.
Has anyone else read the article earlier? Its rather interesting, to say the least. Gives suggestions as to what looked the true nature of the shivans, as told by the Vasudan scientist.
-
Holy crap.
If you can do research this detailed for each mission, then you, sir, are my new idol. :yes: Excellent work! :D
-
Odd.. I'd never seen that before either. The problem is, I think [V] staff has also said things which contradict this. Still does answer one of the bigger FS2 questions.
-
Some great information here. I always thought those mission names carried more significance than I could see.
That FSW article is definitely not canon. I don't think it's intended to be either.
-
Mission name: The Place of Chariots[/u]
Brief Description:[/u]
We are deployed to raid an NTF cargo depot and destroy all the containers and ships present. The depot appears to be heavily protected, and this is later justified by the presence of an unknown asteroid. Within this asteroid lies the rebel leader himself; Admiral Bosch. He attempts to negotiate with Command, saying he will withdraw from Deneb if he is allowed to leave to Sirius. Command orders the installation destroyed, but is stopped when it actually turns out to be the NTF flagship - the Iceni.
Ships in Mission/Class:[/u]
NTF Iceni/Iceni Class
Unknown NTF/Boadecia Class
Capricorn 1,2 & 3/ Poseidon&Triton
Special Characters involved (if any):[/u]
Admiral Bosch
Mission Name Analysis and links:[/u]
The Place of Chariots (http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/H/history/a-b/boud5.html) was an actual place in history, and one where a major encounter between roman forces and that of rebels. The rebels vastly outnumbered the Roman forces, much like how Alpha and delta wing are outnumbered here.
Mission Ships/Class Analysis and links:[/u]
NTF Iceni/NTF Boadecia:
Surprisingly, these two are not only related to each other, but to the mission name as well. Boadecia was The Queen of Iceni (http://travesti.geophys.mcgill.ca/~olivia/BOUDICA/) and attempted to lead a massive uprising against the Romans, much like Bosch's own charge against the GTVA. She nearly succeeded....but guess what? She was defeated...none other in the place of chariots. An exceprt from the previous article on the Place of Chariots:
In her speech to her followers, Boudica echoed Paulinus's reference to women, but in a far different way:
It is not as a woman descended from noble ancestry, but as one of the people that I am avenging lost freedom, my scourged body, the outraged chastity of my daughters. Roman lust has gone so far that not our very person, nor even age or virginity, are left unpolluted. But heaven is on the side of a righteous vengeance; a legion that dared to fight has perished; the rest are hiding themselves in their camp, or are thinking anxiously of flight. They will not sustain even the din and the shout of so many thousands, much less our charge and our blows. If you weigh well the strength of the armies, and the causes of the war, you will see that, in this battle, you must conquer or die. This is a woman's resolve; as for men, they may live and be slaves.
Then the Britons charged. Some historians believe that they would have advanced to the west of the river Anker, which runs through the middle of the plain, following the path of the modern-day railway line.
The Romans unleashed their javelins down the slope. Then their infantry, moving as one unit, charged. This broke the British advance and forced them back towards the wagons. The Roman cavalry joined the battle, coming in from each side and encircling the British. At the rear of the battlefield, the British families sat by the wagons, helplessly watching the slaughter. When the legionnaires reached the makeshift camp, they killed every man, woman and child they could reach. At the end of the day, some 80,000 Britons had been slaughtered, and only 400 Romans had died.
It is said that Boudica herself survived the last battle and fled back to Iceni territory. There she poisoned herself. Not for her the prospect of being paraded through the streets of Rome in chains as Suetonius Paulinus enjoyed his triumph.
The Romans would never face another serious rebellion in Britain.
Now that is indeed a connection, to say the least.
Capricorn 1, 3 & 2.
Ok, these are the two Posiedons and a Triton respectively. They do indeed have a connection with each other, if not the mission.
In Greek mythology, Triton is a god of the sea, the son of Poseidon (Neptune); usually portrayed as having the head and trunk of a man and the tail of a fish.]
(http://www.nineplanets.org/triton.html)
Mission events/description analysis and links:[/u]
The events of the mission seem to follow the description of the place itself - right upto the destruction of Boadecia and the retreat of the Iceni. Its too uncanny a connection, and is fascinating to say the least.
Any misc. notes as well as possible connections between the a/m three analysis.[/u]
NA
-
u got waaaaaaaaay to much time on your hands dude. but still, thats pretty damn interesting. do you think someone in [V] knew alot about this and decided to just throw it in, because it seems too much of a coincidence.
anyway, if this makes u happy, keep it up. interesting stuff
-
I think it is beyond doubt that someone in [V] was a big history/mythology buff and did this all deliberately.
-
I found something related to Bosch. (http://home.actlab.utexas.edu/~litlgirlblue/SoundClass/Bosch.gif) ;)
-
Originally posted by WMCoolmon
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/Carltheshivan/85c8b853.jpg)
WTF?
-
Originally posted by WMCoolmon
I found something related to Bosch. (http://home.actlab.utexas.edu/~litlgirlblue/SoundClass/Bosch.gif) ;)
Yes, I know. I found that earlier and posted it over in the previous thread. Aken Bosch appeared to be a painter a long time ago, and a rather strange one at that.
I'll be posting more info in the next analysis, which should come in the following few days.
-
Damn...looks like Bosch threw some crazy parties :p
-
Most people should recognise this quote;
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free; send these, the homeless tempest-tossed, to me; I lift my lamp beside the golden door."
Full text;
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
The point? It's (apparently) from The New Colossus, by Emma Lazarus.
Tempest tossed; from the nebula?
The golden door; Knosso? Or Capella?
Unlikely, but you never know.......
-
'Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning'
That is either intentional, or an incredible coincidence
-
Mission name: The Romans Blunder[/u]
Brief Description:[/u]
We are deployed to intercept Admiral Bosch once more. However, the intercept plot fails, leading us to intercept several other classes of ships as well/
Ships in Mission/Class:[/u]
NTF Iceni/ Iceni Class frigate
GVD Psamtik/GVD Hasheput (i cant spell it for nuts)
Capricorn 1/GTFr Triton
Capricorn 2/GTFr Poseidon
NTF Glorious/GTC Fenris
NTF Impervious/GTC Leviathan
Alpha Wing
Special Characters involved (if any):[/u]
Admiral Bosch
Mission Name Analysis and links:[/u]
The Roman's Blunder was quite real it seems, and has a definite connection here, of sorts.
Go under the section 'The King of Kings' and look for the defeat of the roman legions (http://www.armenianhighland.com/main.html)
Excerpt:
Tigran knew that he had the support of the Army, especially the Armenian Cavalry, that was fiercely loyal to Tigran. It is interesting to note here that Plutarch considered the entry of the Roman general into Greater Armenia a military blunder, since the highlanders were prepared to fight to the death, shoulder to shoulder -- with the regular Imperial Army -- from their impregnable highlands . He wrote "He [Lucullus] seemed to be making a reckless attack, and one admitted on no saving calculation, upon warlike nations, countless thousands of horsemen, and a boundless region surrounded by deep rivers and mountains covered with perpetual snow."
Now, the roman's blunder can easily be tied in with the mission events, especially command's actions and the position we started in. Bosch escape into Sirius can be linked to the NTF control in that system, which would have brought massive casualties for the GTVA. That one blunder cost them the war, since eliminating Bosch would have essentially won it for them. The GTVA, in essence, had made Sirius an even greater beehive now that Bosch had escaped into it. NTF special forces (at least, the ones that normally accompanied Bosch) would be there, fighting to the death, shoulder-to-shoulder (or in this fighter-to-fighter) alongside what forces were already there.
Mission Ships/Class Analysis and links:[/u]
I've brought forward some of the details from the previous mission analysis, and have included it for lesser confusion.
Psamtik:
Article (http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/psamtik1.htm)
Psamtik appears to have been a major Egyptian king. Although there appears to be little connection with Belisarius, other than the fact that both were instrumental in the foundation of their empires. This is probably true - as we have Witnessed, the GVD Psamtik was a major destroyer that won many campiagns for the GTVA, and could be directly connected with many other victories. Although we have no way to find evidence for the same with the NTCv Belisarius. However, one has to realize - it probably WAS succesfull. The Belisarius might have managed to distract and draw off GTVA forces long enough (perhaps that is the reason it was damaged? Maybe it came in directly from another fight?) for Admiral Bosch to follow through with this plan? After all, a Terran Corvette can be a hell of a distraction - and apperantly was so, as the GTVA had lost two cruisers and nearly 15 wings of fighters prior to the mission. So, yes, in a sense it had succeeded, but where history diverges is the cause of death in this case.
Iceni:
NTF Iceni/NTF Boadecia:
Surprisingly, these two are not only related to each other, but to the mission name as well. Boadecia was The Queen of Iceni (http://travesti.geophys.mcgill.ca/~olivia/BOUDICA/) and attempted to lead a massive uprising against the Romans, much like Bosch's own charge against the GTVA. She nearly succeeded....but guess what? She was defeated...none other in the place of chariots. An exceprt from the previous article on the Place of Chariots:
In her speech to her followers, Boudica echoed Paulinus's reference to women, but in a far different way:
It is not as a woman descended from noble ancestry, but as one of the people that I am avenging lost freedom, my scourged body, the outraged chastity of my daughters. Roman lust has gone so far that not our very person, nor even age or virginity, are left unpolluted. But heaven is on the side of a righteous vengeance; a legion that dared to fight has perished; the rest are hiding themselves in their camp, or are thinking anxiously of flight. They will not sustain even the din and the shout of so many thousands, much less our charge and our blows. If you weigh well the strength of the armies, and the causes of the war, you will see that, in this battle, you must conquer or die. This is a woman's resolve; as for men, they may live and be slaves.
Then the Britons charged. Some historians believe that they would have advanced to the west of the river Anker, which runs through the middle of the plain, following the path of the modern-day railway line.
The Romans unleashed their javelins down the slope. Then their infantry, moving as one unit, charged. This broke the British advance and forced them back towards the wagons. The Roman cavalry joined the battle, coming in from each side and encircling the British. At the rear of the battlefield, the British families sat by the wagons, helplessly watching the slaughter. When the legionnaires reached the makeshift camp, they killed every man, woman and child they could reach. At the end of the day, some 80,000 Britons had been slaughtered, and only 400 Romans had died.
It is said that Boudica herself survived the last battle and fled back to Iceni territory. There she poisoned herself. Not for her the prospect of being paraded through the streets of Rome in chains as Suetonius Paulinus enjoyed his triumph.
The Romans would never face another serious rebellion in Britain.
The Iceni has been on the run in this case, and hence probably continuing the a/m description in this case?
NTC Impervious/Leviathan Class
The Impervious is the first Leviathan class cruiser we encounter in the game. I ran two searches, one on the ship's name, and one on the ship's class name.
The ship itself has a precedent in history. Surprisingly, it's based on US naval fleet records, as opposed to British ones.
The USS Impervious (http://home.earthlink.net/~mso449/)
Some of the more interesting quotes on the hisory. These are just snippets, and not the entire thing. She has quite a proud history, to say the least.
The IMPERVIOUS was under construction by Tampa Shipbuilding Company in Tampa for service as (AM-449) during WWII, but was cancelled on June 6, 1944. With the outbreak of the Korean War her keel was laid down on November 18 1951 at the Martinolich Shipbuilding Company in San Diego, and she was launched on August 29th the following year. She was commissioned on July 15th, 1954 and following shakedown and mine warfare training off the California coast, IMPERVIOUS was reclassified MSO-449 on 7 February 1955 and assigned to MINDIV 92. She sailed 1 July with her division for duty in the Far East with the 7th Fleet, arriving Sasebo via Pearl Harbor 5 August. During this deployment, she operated with ships of the Republic of Korea and Nationalist Chinese navies. Following visits to Hong Kong, Taiwan and Korea, IMPERVIOUS departed Yokosuka, Japan in January 1956 and arrived at her homeport of Long Beach via Midway Island and Pearl Harbor on 15 February 1956. During the next two years she operated out of Long Beach.
In January of 1966 the Impervious left Long Beach headed for Viet Nam via Hawaii, Guam and Japan. During the time off the coast of Viet Nam the ship's company conducted searches of over 1000 junks and were involved in several firefights with no casualties. Hundreds of suspected Viet Cong were detained as a result of these efforts. During that period the ship was also caught in a severe typhoon. Communications with the Seventh Fleet were lost for approximately four days. After the seas had calmed IMPERVIOUS found herself in the midst about 15 ships that were searching for her. At the the completion of her successful deployment IMPERVIOUS returned to homeport in November 1966.
In 1989 IMPERVIOUS deployed several times to the Caribbean as part of drug interdiction effort with the Coast Guard. The ship underwent a Supply Management Inspection, for which they were awarded the blue Supply " E" for supply excellence, rarely seen in a minesweeper. IMPERVIOUS also successfully completed an INSURV, MCM/MTT basic and advanced inspections and an ORE given by Mine Warfare Inspection Group. The culmination of the year's effort was the awarding of the Battle "E" for battle efficiency. In mid-1989 IMPERVIOUS entered an extensive drydock and overhaul period in Charleston. During this time she was forced to ride out Hurricane Hugo tied up to a pier unable to get underway. Following the hurricane many IMPERVIOUS crewmen donated their time to relief and clean-up efforts in the Charleston area.
In the first week of July 1990 IMPERVIOUS sailed up the Potomac River to Washington D.C. for a liberty call before being deployed to the Persian Gulf for participation in Desert Shield/Desert Storm. After the port visit in Washington, she sailed to Norfolk where she was loaded on the Dutch heavy-lift ship Super Servant 4 along with the ADROIT (MSO-506), LEADER (MSO-490) and AVENGER (MCM-1) for transit to the Persian Gulf. At that time the crew was separated from the ship except a small detachment made up of selected crewmen from the four minesweepers to maintain the ships while transiting the Atlantic. During the ship's transit, the crew was sent to Charleston for firefighting training along with medical training for all hands. The crew met the ship in Bahrain on 1 October for a short shake-down before commencing operations. While deployed during Desert Storm IMPERVIOUS continually conducted mine exercises in conjunction with the other American sweeps as well as the British and Saudi Arabian Navies.
IMPERVIOUS was decommissioned 12 December 1991 and was stricken 18 March 1992. Sold for scrapping 15 April 1995, the purchaser defaulted and the contract for sale was cancelled 8 October 1996. We received confirmation in February 2002 that she was scrapped along with ENGAGE (MSO-433), EXULTANT (MSO-441), FORTIFY (MSO-446), AFFRAY (MSO-511) and EXPLOIT (MSO-440)s. The last of the U.S. MSOs are now gone.
None of it matches with the history we saw in FS2. However, her purpose was as an MSO, primarily, so I figured, there had to be another connection - perhaps to the ship class? There is a precedent in history. one of course, you know, is the mythological one. The Mythological Leviathan bears extreme similarities to the cruiser's nature and role, not to mention the mythological defeat was at the hand of one of the gods. The URL is here. the articles that follow are too long to post here, so you may want to got here and read up on it.
Leviathan (http://www.deliriumsrealm.com/delirium/mythology/leviathan.asp)
However, I did run a search for the HMS Leviathan and the USS Leviathan, and I got matches.
The HMS Leviathan (http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/Ships/LEVIATHAN.html) was the aircraft carrier that never was, while the USS Leviathan (scroll down to the bottom) (http://1-22infantry.org/history/hoboken.htm) was first a German ship, which was redesignated by american forces and converted into a passenger liner later on. She was the largest ship of her kind afloat from 1914-1921, so there is something there. Draw from these what you will.
NTC Glorious/Fenris
Like the Impervious, I ran a search on the name and hte class name.
The HMS Glorious (http://college.hmco.com/history/readerscomp/ships/html/sh_038900_hmsglorious.htm) was a carrier that sank in WWII to the German ships Scharnhorst and Gneisenau. Here is the article:
HMS Glorious
Courageous-class aircraft carrier (1f/1m). L/B/D: 786 × 90.5 × 24 (239.7m × 27.6m × 7.3m). Tons: 22,500 disp. Hull: steel. Comp.: 1,245. Arm.: 16 × 4.7; 48 aircraft. Armor: 3 belt. Mach.: geared turbines, 90,000 shp, 4 shafts; 30.5 kts. Built: Harland & Wolff, Belfast, Ireland; 1917.
Originally commissioned as a light cruiser with four 15-inch guns, HMS Glorious was converted to an aircraft carrier between 1924 and 1930. Stationed first in the Mediterranean and then with the Home Fleet during World War II, she made five patrols to Norway during and after the German invasion in April 1940. In early June she aided in the evacuation of northern Norway, sailing from Scapa Flow to carry RAF Hurricanes and Gladiators to Britain; it was one of the first times that high-performance monoplane fighters ever landed on an aircraft carrier, without arrester hooks. At about 0300 on June 8, she sailed for Scapa Flow with the destroyers HMS Acasta (Commander Charles Glasfurd) and Ardent (Lieutenant Commander J. F. Barker). At about 1600 that afternoon, the German battlecruisers Scharnhorst and Gneisenau appeared on the horizon. At 1632, Scharnhorst opened fire at 28,600 yards, and scored a hit on Glorious's flight deck with her third salvo; 24 minutes later another shell killed Captain Guy D'Oyly-Hughes and many on the bridge. A smoke screen forced a lull in the fighting between 1658 and 1720, when Glorious was hit again in the engine room. She sank half an hour later (in 68°38N, 4°11E), with the loss of all but 37 of her crew. Ardent had sunk at 1725 (68°56N, 3°51E), and Acasta went down at 1820 (68°40N, 4°19E), though not before she landed a torpedo under Scharnhorst's main after turret. There was only one survivor from each of the destroyers.
Howland, "Loss of HMS Glorious." Winton, Carrier "Glorious."
Rather interesting, I think. The Glorious in FS2 was lost to the Vasudans - the Psamtik in particular. From Psamtik's history, the king was regularly known to employ slaves, and the upper hierarchy was very well known to be cruel and not unlike the Nazis in some manner or the other. Could this, somehow, be a subtle hint as to the true nature of the Vasudans? Perhaps not, but it is good to think about it a bit.
There is no USS Glorious in the american navy, sadly.
As to the ship class itself; it is fairly straightforward and simple enough.
Fenris (http://www.pantheon.org/articles/f/fenrir.html)
Fenrir (or Fenris) is a gigantic and terrible monster in the shape of a wolf. He is the eldest child of Loki and the giantess Angrboda. The gods learned of a prophecy which stated that the wolf and his family would one day be responsible for the destruction of the world. They caught the wolf and locked him in a cage. Only the god of war, Tyr, dared to feed and take care of the wolf.
When he was still a pup they had nothing to fear, but when the gods saw one day how he had grown, they decided to render him harmless. However, none of the gods had enough courage to face the gigantic wolf. Instead, they tried to trick him. They said the wolf was weak and could never break free when he was chained. Fenrir accepted the challenge and let the gods chain him. Unfortunately, he was so immensely strong that he managed to break the strongest fetters as if they were cobwebs.
After that, the gods saw only one alternative left: a magic chain. They ordered the dwarves to make something so strong that it could hold the wolf. The result was a soft, thin ribbon: Gleipnir. It was incredibly strong, despite what its size and appearance might suggest. The ribbon was fashioned of six strange elements: the footstep of a cat; the roots of a mountain; a woman's beard; the breath of fishes; the sinews of a bear; and a bird's spittle.
The gods tried to trick the wolf again, only this time Fenrir was less eager to show his strength. He saw how thin the chain was, and said that was no pride in breaking such a weak chain. Eventually, though, he agreed, thinking that otherwise his strength and courage would be doubted. Suspecting treachery however, he in turn asked the gods for a token of good will: one of them had to put a hand between his jaws. The gods were not overly eager to do this, knowing what they could expect. Finally, only Tyr agreed, and the gods chained the wolf with Gleipnir. No matter how hard Fenrir struggled, he could not break free from this thin ribbon. In revenge, he bit off Tyr's hand.
Being very pleased with themselves, the gods carried Fenrir off and chained him to a rock (called Gioll) a mile down into the earth. They put a sword between his jaws to prevent him from biting. On the day of Ragnarok, Fenrir will break his chains and join the giants in their battle against the gods. He will seek out Odin and devour him. Vidar, Odin's son, will avenge his father by killing the wolf.
Fairly straightforward, and perhaps, nothing special here.....
-
(continued - lol, my posts are getting too long!)
Mission events/description analysis and links:[/u]
Ok, mission events here are straightforward and match with the title and the b/m analysis. Alpha 2 can be seen as the main force behind the assumption that Command blundered, allowing bosch to escape. What is more interesting is the question, was it a blunder, or was it deliberate? There is no clue in the mission for such a thing, however, it can be rest assured that it is definately a mystery that would be made clear in FS3.
Bosch, like Queen Boadecia, succesfully managed to get away into Sirius.
Sirius, itself, is an actual system. Source: http://www.astro.uiuc.edu/~kaler/sow/sirius.html
SIRIUS (Alpha Canis Majoris). From Orion, look south and to the east to find brilliant Sirius, as if one really needs directions to find the brightest star in the sky. Its name comes from the Greek word for "searing" or "scorching," certainly appropriate for a star that shines at the bright end of the "minus-second" (-1.47) magnitude. Sirius is the luminary of the constellation Canis Major, the Greater Dog, which represents Orion's larger hunting dog, and as such is commonly referred to as the "Dog Star." So great is its prominence that it has two "announcer stars" that from the mid- northern hemisphere rise before it, Procyon and Mirzam. Famed from times long past, the first glimpse of Sirius in dawn announced the rising of the Nile in ancient Egypt. (It no longer does because of precession, the 26,000-year wobble of the Earth's axis.) Sirius is also part of a large asterism, the Winter Triangle, the other two stars of which are Betelgeuse in Orion and Procyon in the smaller dog, Canis Minor. Because of its brilliance, Sirius is the champion of all "twinklers," the effect caused by variable refraction in the Earth's atmosphere. The star, a white class A (A1) hydrogen-fusing dwarf with a temperature of 9880 Kelvin, is bright in part because it is indeed rather luminous, 26 times more so than the Sun. But it is also bright to us because it is nearby, a mere 8.6 light years away, just double that of the closest star to the Earth, Alpha Centauri. The star is "metal rich," its iron content triple that of the Sun, most likely from some sort of elemental diffusion. Sirius's greatest claim to fame may be its dim eighth magnitude (8.44) companion, Sirius B, which is visually nearly 10,000 times fainter than the bright star, Sirius A. Sirius B, however, is actually the hotter of the two, a blue-white 24,800 Kelvin. Though typically separated from each other by a few seconds of arc, Sirius B is terribly difficult to see in the glare of Sirius A. The only way the companion star can be both hot and dim is to be small, only about nine-tenths the size of Earth. The two orbit each other with a 50.1 year period at an average distance of 19.8 Astronomical Units, about Uranus's distance from the Sun, a large orbital eccentricity carrying them from 31.5 AU apart to 8.1 AU and back again. The two were closest in 1994 and will be again in 2044, while they will be farthest apart in 2019. From the orbit, we find that Sirius A and B have respective masses of 2.1 and 1.0 times that of the Sun (the radius of Sirius A coming in at 1.7 solar, in agreement with the measured angular diameter). Sirius B is a classic "white dwarf" that packs an average of a metric ton into a cubic centimeter, roughly a sugar cube. White dwarfs are the end products of ordinary stars like the Sun, tiny remnants that have run out of nuclear fuel. Most are balls of carbon and oxygen whose fates are merely to cool forever. To have evolved first, Sirius B must once have been more massive and luminous than Sirius A. That its mass is now lower is proof that stars lose considerable mass as they die, Sirius B clearly cutting itself at least in half. Given the 250 million year age of the system, Sirius B was once a hot class B star that lost at least two-thirds of itself back into interstellar space. Studies of other white dwarfs show that Sirius B in fact should have contained as much as 6 or 7 solar masses to be as massive as it is now, suggesting a class B3 star at birth. (Thanks to Steve Ash for prompting a rewrite.)
Draw what conclusions from it as you may.
Any misc. notes as well as possible connections between the a/m three analysis.[/u]
Nothing that hasn't been explained already.
-
Stickied... for now. >..>;
-
I found something related to Bosch.
ACK! PORNOGRAHPY!!
-
hmm... interesting to say at least. carry on
-
I remember being quite disappointed that the odd behaviour of Bosch and Command during the NTF arc of FS2 was never addressed. Bosch openly tried to negotiate with Command, and Command ignored it until it became obvious Bosch WAS in fact there - and Command let him escape. Just how much did they know, and where did the orders/coordinates come from? FS2 sure as **** doesn't tell you.
-
Would this sort of thing fit best on the FS Wiki? :)
-
If you want it, yeah sure. But I find it easier to update a thread as opposed to the Wiki :P
No updates yet - posting from Genting on my vacation atm! I have pictures and stuff that ill post later when I get back to Singapore :D
-
Ok, I just read the Shivan Manifesto thread (well, actually just the recent updates and bumpage to it) and got a few thoughts running.
Rather than mill on them, I went on the net again and did another search for Aken Bosch, this time finding a vastly more detailed article on his life and what-not. And then I read through it. The similarities are startling to say the least.
I was going to post this large reply to the thread when my connection went out. Goober then locked the thread (darn you!) so I couldnt post there, so instead, I will post here.
So many theories...so much speculation.
And yet, there is but one probability.
The Shivans were part of a much larger problem, Volition said...
The key here, I believe....is not race... nor species but problem...
From Dictionary.com:
prob·lem ( P ) Pronunciation Key (prblm)
n.
A question to be considered, solved, or answered: math problems; the problem of how to arrange transportation.
A situation, matter, or person that presents perplexity or difficulty: was having problems breathing; considered the main problem to be his boss. See Usage Note at dilemma.
Problem
n
1: a state of difficulty that needs to be resolved;
2: a source of difficulty;
3: a question raised for consideration or solution
The question here should not be who the shivans are...or why they do what they do...or even whom they work for (if applicable). But, rather what is the nature of the larger problem at play against humanity?
There is a hidden hint here....one within the way the Vasudans have thrived, and how humanity was still struggling comparitively. Then comes the Bosch enigma.
http://www.morbidoutlook.com/art/articles/1999_00_bosch.html
This is a very interesting article on Bosch's nature and paintings of the time. Pay close attention to the details of the time in particular:
"Bosch lived during unsettled and anxious times. The old medieval order imposed by the Church was cracking under the growth of cities, the power and commerce of capitalism, the rise of national states, demands for religious reform and the beginnings of science. Minds were growing curious, analytical and adventurous. Historians point to this time as the beginning of the modern world.
The age was marked by violence and pessimism. Kings and dukes were murdered, soldiers pillaged and killed, cruelty to the poor and the animals were prevalent. The future seemed dim with visions of demons, darkness and hell. Opposing the current times, Bosch portrayed his message with a visual impact so fierce, it chilled his contemporaries and fascinates us five hundred years later. "
Bosch mentioned in his monologues, in his logs, the feelings he ahd of the Vasudans (especially the 4th log)...thing is there are correlations to some of hte monos and his paintings.
An example of this could be Mono 3 - the Iceni...which has some similarity to 'our' Bosch's "A ship of fools". However, it is more matching of Bosch's abandonment of the Iceni, and all of it's crew. A ship of fools and cattle that had followed him around blindly, worrying only about revenge and their hatred of the Vasudans....
"In The Ship of Fools, we see that all of humankind is sailing through the seas on a ship that is representative of humanity. Everyone represented here is a fool in Bosch’s eyes; people that eat, drink, flirt, cheat and pursue unattainable objects. Meanwhile the ship drifts aimlessly and never reaches the harbor. The sinister and monstrous things that he brought forth are our hidden forms of self-love, and the ugliness from within."
But hte overall theme one gets from 'our' Bosch could be summarized by the article:
"In an analysis done about forty years ago, the Dutch scholar Dirk Bax concluded that Bosch was a moralist with contempt for the lower classes. He had no sympathy for the poor and used bitter symbolism to satirize beggars, monks, nuns, soldiers, peasants, pilgrims, whores, gypsies, vagrants and jesters. He occasionally lashed out an emperors and nobles as well, but rarely against burghers like himself and others of the wealthy middle class. He vented his anger the most on the excess of lust, license, drunkenness, gluttony, folly and stupidity. Some art historians have since interpreted Bosch’s paintings as displaying less pessimism and more understanding of the difficult plight of his fellow human beings. "
A rather starkling parralel (or at least, a similarity in course) to the Bosch in Freespace 2.
What does this bode for the Shivans, however? Or indeed...how is it even related? The religious undertones that govern the existance of Bosch, indicates that the Shivans could indeed be governed by such undertones as well. From the article, the time at the period was potrayed as one of much darkness and strife, with the shadow of demons on the horizon. This could easily have been the description of the time in Fs1 when we started out - with the shadows of the Shivans in Ross128.
The main difference between real history and our paradigm here, however, is in events. In real history, this period of strife made way to capitalism, economy and the modern era.
In freespace, however, the Volition team appear to have taken a different tangent. This may be the main difference - could the so called 'demons' have appeared in the form of the Shivans? This could be equally possible in either FS1 or FS2. Judging from the trend, there is a more than likely chance that FS3 would have even more significant religious undertones and currents driving it along - the only question is which religion's?
In FS1, the Shivans were potrayed mostly from Eastern Hindu mythology. One thing about hindu mythology - it has hte largest number of dietys around, which probably allowed the devs from flexibility in naming conventions, so its probably not very in-depth than one may think...FS2 however, saw the naming conventions change to that of Demons in general.
Taking into account this fact, and that of Bosch...could the Shivans in essence, represent the inner demons that we fight everyday? Or perhaps, teh guardians or vassals of a representative hell itself?So many theories...so much speculation.
And yet, there is but one probability.
The Shivans were part of a much larger problem, Volition said...
The key here, I believe....is not race... nor species but problem...
From Dictionary.com:
prob·lem ( P ) Pronunciation Key (prblm)
n.
A question to be considered, solved, or answered: math problems; the problem of how to arrange transportation.
A situation, matter, or person that presents perplexity or difficulty: was having problems breathing; considered the main problem to be his boss. See Usage Note at dilemma.
Problem
n
1: a state of difficulty that needs to be resolved;
2: a source of difficulty;
3: a question raised for consideration or solution
The question here should not be who the shivans are...or why they do what they do...or even whom they work for (if applicable). But, rather what is the nature of the larger problem at play against humanity?
There is a hidden hint here....one within the way the Vasudans have thrived, and how humanity was still struggling comparitively. Then comes the Bosch enigma.
http://www.morbidoutlook.com/art/articles/1999_00_bosch.html
This is a very interesting article on Bosch's nature and paintings of the time. Pay close attention to the details of the time in particular:
"Bosch lived during unsettled and anxious times. The old medieval order imposed by the Church was cracking under the growth of cities, the power and commerce of capitalism, the rise of national states, demands for religious reform and the beginnings of science. Minds were growing curious, analytical and adventurous. Historians point to this time as the beginning of the modern world.
The age was marked by violence and pessimism. Kings and dukes were murdered, soldiers pillaged and killed, cruelty to the poor and the animals were prevalent. The future seemed dim with visions of demons, darkness and hell. Opposing the current times, Bosch portrayed his message with a visual impact so fierce, it chilled his contemporaries and fascinates us five hundred years later. "
Bosch mentioned in his monologues, in his logs, the feelings he ahd of the Vasudans (especially the 4th log)...thing is there are correlations to some of hte monos and his paintings.
An example of this could be Mono 3 - the Iceni...which has some similarity to 'our' Bosch's "A ship of fools". However, it is more matching of Bosch's abandonment of the Iceni, and all of it's crew. A ship of fools and cattle that had followed him around blindly, worrying only about revenge and their hatred of the Vasudans....
"In The Ship of Fools, we see that all of humankind is sailing through the seas on a ship that is representative of humanity. Everyone represented here is a fool in Bosch’s eyes; people that eat, drink, flirt, cheat and pursue unattainable objects. Meanwhile the ship drifts aimlessly and never reaches the harbor. The sinister and monstrous things that he brought forth are our hidden forms of self-love, and the ugliness from within."
But hte overall theme one gets from 'our' Bosch could be summarized by the article:
"In an analysis done about forty years ago, the Dutch scholar Dirk Bax concluded that Bosch was a moralist with contempt for the lower classes. He had no sympathy for the poor and used bitter symbolism to satirize beggars, monks, nuns, soldiers, peasants, pilgrims, whores, gypsies, vagrants and jesters. He occasionally lashed out an emperors and nobles as well, but rarely against burghers like himself and others of the wealthy middle class. He vented his anger the most on the excess of lust, license, drunkenness, gluttony, folly and stupidity. Some art historians have since interpreted Bosch’s paintings as displaying less pessimism and more understanding of the difficult plight of his fellow human beings. "
A rather starkling parralel (or at least, a similarity in course) to the Bosch in Freespace 2.
What does this bode for the Shivans, however? Or indeed...how is it even related? The religious undertones that govern the existance of Bosch, indicates that the Shivans could indeed be governed by such undertones as well. From the article, the time at the period was potrayed as one of much darkness and strife, with the shadow of demons on the horizon. This could easily have been the description of the time in Fs1 when we started out - with the shadows of the Shivans in Ross128.
The main difference between real history and our paradigm here, however, is in events. In real history, this period of strife made way to capitalism, economy and the modern era.
In freespace, however, the Volition team appear to have taken a different tangent. This may be the main difference - could the so called 'demons' have appeared in the form of the Shivans? This could be equally possible in either FS1 or FS2. Judging from the trend, there is a more than likely chance that FS3 would have even more significant religious undertones and currents driving it along - the only question is which religion's?
In FS1, the Shivans were potrayed mostly from Eastern Hindu mythology. One thing about hindu mythology - it has hte largest number of dietys around, which probably allowed the devs from flexibility in naming conventions, so its probably not very in-depth than one may think...FS2 however, saw the naming conventions change to that of Demons in general.
Taking into account this fact, and that of Bosch...could the Shivans in essence, represent the inner demons that we fight everyday? Or perhaps, teh guardians or vassals of a representative hell itself?
-
Oh, just to indicate how evil the damn thing is. After my post; the number of times read that appeared correlates with a well-known Christian belief.... :eek: :
(no joke - real screenshot...)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v107/anandraj/evilness.jpg)
-
Wasn't '666' deemed a mis-translation, and the number '616' deemed more accurate to the original writings on the subject...?
-
I dont remember reading that, yet it seems vaguely familiar.
In any case, time to move on. I did some more research and digging - this time into the destruction of Capella. Most of the answers so far have come from google, so why not just try and search for a familiar event? I typed in Destruction of Capella, and found little except for a neat entry down at Science-fiction database. Check it out (http://optibrain.co.uk/sfdb/viewer.php?view=entries/502&returnpage=sfdata_user.php&PHPSESSID=9e0b4fb6a718ef55201e88a7dbf3c826). I then tried searching for just Capella instead.
I found This. (http://www.astro.uiuc.edu/~kaler/sow/capella.html) It is a real system, albiet different. Also, Capella is known as 'she-goat' in Roman mythology, and is said to be the bringer of destructive storms, as gleamed from Here (http://www.winshop.com.au/annew/Capella.html)
Some interesting quotes:
History of the star: Capella, "small goat" or the "Little She-goat", is a white star in Auriga marking the goat that the Charioteer is carrying on his left shoulder.
There are many ancient stories relating to Capella, the 6th largest star in the sky.
A previous name of this star was Amalthea, which referred to the goat that suckled the baby Zeus (Jove/Jupiter). Amalthea was mother of the Haedi (the two stars depicted as kid goats - Zeta, Hoedus 1 and Eta Auriga, Hoedus 11), which she put aside to accommodate her foster-child, and with her sister Melissa, she fed the infant god with goat's milk and honey on Mount Ida and this star is appropriately positioned in the Milky Way; and for which Manilius wrote: The Nursing Goat's repaid with Heaven.
From this came the occasional Jovis Nutrix.
Others said that the star represented the Goat's horn broken off in play by the infant Zeus and transferred to the heavens as Cornu-copia, the "Horn of Plenty", a title recalled by the modern Lithuanian "Food-bearer".
The words Keren-happuch, the "Paint-horn", or the "Horn of Antimony", of the Book of Job xlii, 14, — the Cornus tibii of the Vulgate are all said to be connected.
"Capella's course admiring landsmen trace, but sailors hate her inauspicious face". This star, along with the Haedi, were known for their stormy character throughout classical days and this was called the "rainy Goat-star". The word "goat" was analogous to a "Storm Wind".
Pliny and Manilius treated it as a constellation by itself, also calling it Capra, Caper, Hircus, and by other hircine titles. Our word is the diminutive of Capra, sometimes turned into Crepa, but this star was more definitely given as Olenia, Olenie, Capra Olenie, and the Olenium Astrum of Ovid's Heroides. In the present day it is Cabrilla with the Spaniards, and Chevre with the French.
The Arabic had various names; Ayyuk, Alhajoc, Alhajoth, Alathod, Alkatod, Alatudo, Atud, Alcahela. Al 'Anz, "Goat". The early Arabs called it Al Rakib, the Driver. The Tyrians called it 'Iyutha.
Capella's place on the Egyptian Denderah zodiac is occupied by a mummied cat in the outstretched hand of a male figure crowned with feathers; while, always an important star in the temple worship of the great Egyptian god Ptah, the Opener (of the year), it is supposed to have borne the name of that divinity and probably was observed at its setting 1700 BCE from his temple, the noted edifice at Karnak near Thebes, the No Amon of the books of the prophets Jeremiah and Nahum. A sanctuary of Ptah at Memphis also was oriented to it about 5200 BCE. There is believed to be at least five temples oriented to its setting.
It served, too, the same purpose for worship in Greece, where it may have been the orientation point of a temple at Eleusis to the goddess Diana Propyla.
In India it also was sacred as Brahma Ridaya, the "Heart of Brahma".
It was the Akkadian Dil-gan I-ku, the "Messenger of Light", and Dil-gan Babill, the "Patron star of Babylon",
One Akkadian cuneiform inscription, supposed to refer to Capella, is rendered by Jensen Askar, the "Tempest God"; and the Tablet of the Thirty Stars bears the synonymous Ma-a-tu; all this well accounting for its subsequent character in classical times.
The ancient Peruvians identifying this star with Colca, the Shepherd's Star as was the title in Mediterranean countries and with English poets.
In astrology Capella portended civic and military honors and wealth. (Allen).
An interesting thing about Ptah (http://www.pantheon.org/articles/p/ptah.html). His name means "Creator".
From the Memphite Theology:
"Thus it is said of Ptah: 'He who made all and created the gods.' And he is Ta-tenen, who gave birth to the gods, and from whom every thing came forth, foods, provisions, divine offerings, all good things. Thus it is recognized and understood that he is the mightiest of the gods. Thus Ptah was satisfied after he had made all things and all divine words."
(Ancient Egyptian Literature, Volume I: The Old and Middle Kingdom translated by Miriam Lichtheim)
From the lines I underlined in the passage above, one must note that Bhrama was known as the creator as well, in Indian mythology. This connection....it is simply too fascinating to ignore. I do not know if Volition did this delibrately or not, and it sparks significant thoughts on various religious connections.
The backbone behind the Shivans actions...was it to get back at the creator? Are we really seeing, veiled behind a heavy mask, a very massive and gargantual battle between good and evil, with humanity caught in the middle? It would certainly fit with what was found earlier about Admiral Bosch, and of how he tried to conspire with the demons. But then, one must ask - where is the evidence of the creator, the 'good' side that the Shivans were supposedly fighting? Perhaps this was supposed to be the climax in FS3 - the penultimate and epic battle between the traditional good and evil...or is it something far more sinister, something far, far deeper?
-
this is getting seriously complicated, and you deserve a fecking medal for this :)
-
More connections. I ran a search for the term "The Great Destroyers" and came accross these related articles. The first, and most direct is from the Bible. however the only connection here is related to teh other connections to teh bible. Many of the Christians would no doubt be aware with the four horsemen of the apocalypse?
Quote, from Here (http://www.concordsfirstchurch.org/050204.htm)
"This is grand enough, but take note of the place where this vision shows up in the Revelation. In the chapter right before today's passage, the Lamb began breaking the seven seals on the scroll. The first four seals unleash the four horsemen of the Apocalypse -- war, violence, famine, and death-- the great destroyers of human life and civilization. Breaking the fifth seal reveals the cries of faithful people who had been martyred for their faithfulness. The sixth seal initiates a series of catastrophes greater than the damage that the four horsemen had accomplished. Reading through this series of tales of what happens as the seals are broken is a terrifying tour of widening disaster made more dreadful by the feeling that the worst is yet to come.
Six seals broken, only one left to go. Warfare and famine and death and global upheaval and cries for vindication-- what's next? What's next, as Revelation recounts it, is a pause in the drama. Instead of a seventh broken seal bringing things to an inevitable end of final judgement, what John saw was a vision of the Church of Jesus Christ -- his faithful followers, first those on earth, and then, the great company in heaven. Here's what Professor Boring has to day about this: "Instead of seeing the expected End, what we see is the church. This is ... a reflection of the experience of fist-century Christianity. They looked for the End and what came was the church, not as a substitute for the act of God but itself a dimension of God's saving activity."
The interesting thing is could there be a connection with the breaking of the seals, and the coming of the apocalypse, in this case? Could one of the seals have been delibrately broken in FS1, bringing about the great destroyers? What about the Trinity, and Bosch's gambit? Was this too, what the ancients did and suffered for it?
The first freespace's seal would have to be war - war with the Vasudans, primarily. The second seal would hav ebeen the NTF, and the voilence that ensued, most poetly described in Bosch's own description of himself - "A butcher of innocents."
A similar parrellel could have gone with the Anceint's fate. They started first with war against the civilizations and the second being voilence (from Ancients Monologue 1, the sentence "We crushed them or we subdued them." would be applicable of this.) The third seal would have been the siege of their homeworld...and finally, the last one being death as they were slowly hunted down by the shivans. A rather rought parralel, but plausable nonetheless.
In relation to it, though, I ran a search for "Sathanas"
Most of the results came from a black metal band that arose in the 80's and weren't very succesfull. Then I ran a search for it on dictionary.com and got this result:
1 entry found for Sathanas.
Sathanas
\Sath"an*as\, n. [L. Satanas. See Satan] Satan. [Obs.] --Chaucer. Wyclif.
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.
Rather interesting, don't you think? But unfortunately, not THAT related to the four horsemen.
Then of course, came the other result for the great destroyers. This one fits in far better to Volition's theme and overall plan. Someone on the team obviously knew Chinese culture as well as indian and christian/jewish.
http://www.artmediaresources.com/item.cfm/100075
The entombed terracotta army of China's First Emperor, accidentally discovered in 1974, was hailed as 'the archaeological find of the century.' What manner of man built so grandly for the afterlife? Over 2,000 years after his death, Qin Shihuangdi is still vilifed as one of the great destroyers of history. Yet, by annihilating the warring states, he unifed China; while burning books and executing scholars, he also standardised the written script; after dismantling fortifications and city walls, he ordered the Great Wall to be built. Concisely written and handsomely illustrated, this is an account of the paradoxical tyrant and reformer behind that astonishing mausoleum.
Eeeenteresting. The quest for more insight continues....
-
The first seal may have been the opening of subspace, in conection with the ancients monolouges.
-
Interesting thing.
Aken - as in Aken Bosch - was patron of the boat that carried souls into the underworld. (http://touregypt.net/godsofegypt/aken.htm)
[q]Patron of: the ferryboat that carries the souls of the dead to the underworld.
Appearance: A man dressed in the garb of a sailor, standing in the stern of a papyrus boat.
Description: Aken was the custodian of the ferryboat in the Underworld. However, he was somewhat amusing, for he had to be woken from slumber by the ferryman Mahaf to provide the boat for travel on the celestial waters.
Worship: Not truly worshipped, but mentioned in many hymns and passages of The Book of the Dead.[/q]
Note; dressed as a sailor (Admiral Bosch, military uniform similar to a naval officer). Also, 'had to be woken from slumber' - can be considered a reference to either waking the Shivans, or whatever revelation in the GTI rebellion led to his plan and the NTF. Additionally, by the time Bosch left it, the Iceni was effectively a ship of the dead; although the passage to the underworld would seem a more apt reference for the NTF hierarchy departing with the Shivans.
Note2; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aken_(god) Ra - the sun god - was apparently connected to Aken. Specifically Ra used Akens boat to cross the underworld (possibly referencing the Capellan supernova and wherever the Shivans went afterwards; perhaps Bosch provided a key to that). Also, Aken was considered having the head of a ram; IMO the Iceni design loosely resembles that.
It's considered Aken may have led to other similar mythologies, such as Charon.
Joseph van Aken was a flemish painter. I haven't found any specific details on him, though; I'd suggest the symbology and Egyptian mythology makes the prior source more likely (especially as van Aken seems quite obscure).
-
Except, of course, in connection with the name Bosch...that puts a bit of a different spin on Flemish painters.
-
Except, of course, in connection with the name Bosch...that puts a bit of a different spin on Flemish painters.
From what little I've found on Van Aken, he seems to be fairly bog-standard landscape; there doesn't appear to be the inner meaning of Hieronymous Bosch there.
EDIT; er, that could be because he changed his name to Hieronymous Bosch. :nervous:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/ww2/A871391
-
\Sath"an*as\, n. [L. Satanas. See Satan] Satan. [Obs.] --Chaucer. Wyclif.
aww man... ANOTHER ship class that means 'devil' :ick: (lucifer, demon, hades[sorta])
-
Interesting thing.
Aken - as in Aken Bosch - was patron of the boat that carried souls into the underworld. (http://touregypt.net/godsofegypt/aken.htm)
[q]Patron of: the ferryboat that carries the souls of the dead to the underworld.
Appearance: A man dressed in the garb of a sailor, standing in the stern of a papyrus boat.
Description: Aken was the custodian of the ferryboat in the Underworld. However, he was somewhat amusing, for he had to be woken from slumber by the ferryman Mahaf to provide the boat for travel on the celestial waters.
Worship: Not truly worshipped, but mentioned in many hymns and passages of The Book of the Dead.[/q]
Note; dressed as a sailor (Admiral Bosch, military uniform similar to a naval officer). Also, 'had to be woken from slumber' - can be considered a reference to either waking the Shivans, or whatever revelation in the GTI rebellion led to his plan and the NTF. Additionally, by the time Bosch left it, the Iceni was effectively a ship of the dead; although the passage to the underworld would seem a more apt reference for the NTF hierarchy departing with the Shivans.
Note2; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aken_(god) Ra - the sun god - was apparently connected to Aken. Specifically Ra used Akens boat to cross the underworld (possibly referencing the Capellan supernova and wherever the Shivans went afterwards; perhaps Bosch provided a key to that). Also, Aken was considered having the head of a ram; IMO the Iceni design loosely resembles that.
It's considered Aken may have led to other similar mythologies, such as Charon.
Joseph van Aken was a flemish painter. I haven't found any specific details on him, though; I'd suggest the symbology and Egyptian mythology makes the prior source more likely (especially as van Aken seems quite obscure).
Interesting indeed. For the painter's details, look above in my post - ive posted a direct link to Bosch's paintings and their analysis.
I also ran a search for Mahaf. This is what I found:
Mahaf was the ferryman who navigates the boat provided by Aken, along the winding waters of the Underworld. he also acts as a herald announcing the arrival of the king into the presence of the sun god, Re.
A direct three-point connection, definately.
However, the only connection to the events that we saw happening is the Iceni itself, and it's ferrying of Bosch himself, and maybe the Supernova. It fits, but not completely. Definately an interesting theory to consider, though.
Perhaps....there is a different connection of sorts; one between the Aken, and the painter Bosch? Probably not....
*goes to check anyway
-
Aken Bosch IS Hieronymous Bosch. Look at the link aldo provided.
-
Augnes Dei (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,34452.0.html)
Sound familiar? (http://classicalmusic.about.com/od/theordinaryofthemass/f/agnusdei.htm)
Perhaps Volition had hte last say in the game.... (http://classicalmusic.about.com/od/theordinaryofthemass/f/agnusdeihistory.htm)
Now, if someone can just help me analyze and put down accurately, the latin words/characters for the endpart1 chant, it'd be absolutely great. :)
-
Interestingly enough, though unrelated to this research in particular, there's another video game connection with religious music. According to the end credits of Homeworld, the songe that most of us(us being those who listen to, appreciate, and have knowledge of classical music) know as Samuel Barber's Adagio for Strings is actually titled Agnus Dei.
I love the choral rendition used in Homeworld. I went so far as to get the tools to extract the AIF files from the music archive of the game and then run it through winamp to get a wav so that I could then use AudioGrabber to make a nice , high quality Mp3 of it, much better than the one Relic offers for download.
-
The article from Volitionwatch was taken directly from LFTS, which, to say the least, is a terribly written fan-fic with little or no connection to the FS universe, and is generally inconsistent. The writings on the "vasudan tablets" are identical in to the ones that LTFS' author invented.
Another thing: the sheer quantity of misspellings and grammatical errors in the article are inconsistent with any official Volition releases, but is consistent with the quality of LFTS.
The article is also inconsistent with the official Volition story of the Shivans wiping out the Ancients 8000 years ago (it claims both 50000 and 2000 years ago), the ancient monologue in FS1 (the ancients were warlike conquerors, anything but peaceful), and a variety of other official sources.
Moreso, it is a total rip-off of the Battlestar Galactica storyline (Shivans being built as slaves and rebelling? Shivans != Cylons).
-
WOW! This stuff is thoroughly interesting... you keep this up and we may find all of our answers and more. I personally think that all the connections are more than "someone working at Volition knew about this and decided to put it in the game"... I think it's pretty darn safe to say this was all planned well in advance. We have all kinds of history here. Roman, Chinese, US, German, Christian... Too much for just someone to know. Keep it up!
-
According to the end credits of Homeworld, the songe that most of us(us being those who listen to, appreciate, and have knowledge of classical music) know as Samuel Barber's Adagio for Strings is actually titled Agnus Dei.
Adagio for Strings is simply thr title of the non-choral version of Agnus Dei, theres no "its actually titled" there, just so you know.
-
Augnes Dei (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,34452.0.html)
Sound familiar? (http://classicalmusic.about.com/od/theordinaryofthemass/f/agnusdei.htm)
Perhaps Volition had hte last say in the game.... (http://classicalmusic.about.com/od/theordinaryofthemass/f/agnusdeihistory.htm)
Now, if someone can just help me analyze and put down accurately, the latin words/characters for the endpart1 chant, it'd be absolutely great. :)
this is what i came up with after listening to the end sequence over and over lol, i did have trouble hearing some words but i got the basic jist after a while and after sum research at translating, this is what iv got! in both its original form as heard on the sequence, and its English translation (or best equivilent)
Latin Lyrics (listened to several times, refined what i writ down)
Agnus Dei, Val Maguan
Agnus Dei, Val Maguan
Agnus Dei, Val Maguan
Agnus Dei, Val Maguan
Passum ire, Advent
*choir 'aaah' *
Agnus Dei, Val Maguan
Agnus Dei, Val Maguan
Agnus Dei, Val Maguan
English Translation
Lamb of God, Power of Magic
Lamb of God, Power of Magic
Lamb of God, Power of Magic
Lamb of God, Power of Magic
The Detroyers Have Arrived
*Choir 'aaah'*
Lamb of God, Power of Magic
Lamb of God, Power of Magic
Lamb of God, Power of Magic
double checks are welcome as i may be off with translation, but i think thats it. the words 'the destroyers have arrived' occur when the sathanii are in the final stage of charging there weapon on the fmv sequence, then the 'aaahh' is as they finish and the sun turns a greenish hue. then the final 'lamb of god, power of magic' parts occur as the sathanii jump away.
if these words have been interpreted right, and i have made the correct translations then obviously the lyrics have a direct link to the shivans, and posisbly to outside religious influences aswell. which would back up the fact that fs2 storyline, songs, missions (to an extent) were all planned out very thouroughly and that they are very well versed in the backgorund of the most influencial cultures of the world. The storyline in this case is much larger than first thought aswell in this case.....if an fs3 was indeed released, then answers may have been given, but since it has not, this is mere speculation only of course
-
More connections. I ran a search for the term "The Great Destroyers" and came accross these related articles. The first, and most direct is from the Bible. however the only connection here is related to teh other connections to teh bible. Many of the Christians would no doubt be aware with the four horsemen of the apocalypse?
Quote, from Here (http://www.concordsfirstchurch.org/050204.htm)
"This is grand enough, but take note of the place where this vision shows up in the Revelation. In the chapter right before today's passage, the Lamb began breaking the seven seals on the scroll. The first four seals unleash the four horsemen of the Apocalypse -- war, violence, famine, and death-- the great destroyers of human life and civilization. Breaking the fifth seal reveals the cries of faithful people who had been martyred for their faithfulness. The sixth seal initiates a series of catastrophes greater than the damage that the four horsemen had accomplished. Reading through this series of tales of what happens as the seals are broken is a terrifying tour of widening disaster made more dreadful by the feeling that the worst is yet to come.
Six seals broken, only one left to go. Warfare and famine and death and global upheaval and cries for vindication-- what's next? What's next, as Revelation recounts it, is a pause in the drama. Instead of a seventh broken seal bringing things to an inevitable end of final judgement, what John saw was a vision of the Church of Jesus Christ -- his faithful followers, first those on earth, and then, the great company in heaven. Here's what Professor Boring has to day about this: "Instead of seeing the expected End, what we see is the church. This is ... a reflection of the experience of fist-century Christianity. They looked for the End and what came was the church, not as a substitute for the act of God but itself a dimension of God's saving activity."
The interesting thing is could there be a connection with the breaking of the seals, and the coming of the apocalypse, in this case? Could one of the seals have been delibrately broken in FS1, bringing about the great destroyers? What about the Trinity, and Bosch's gambit? Was this too, what the ancients did and suffered for it?
The first freespace's seal would have to be war - war with the Vasudans, primarily. The second seal would hav ebeen the NTF, and the voilence that ensued, most poetly described in Bosch's own description of himself - "A butcher of innocents."
A similar parrellel could have gone with the Anceint's fate. They started first with war against the civilizations and the second being voilence (from Ancients Monologue 1, the sentence "We crushed them or we subdued them." would be applicable of this.) The third seal would have been the siege of their homeworld...and finally, the last one being death as they were slowly hunted down by the shivans. A rather rought parralel, but plausable nonetheless.
My take on this is the following:
If it is in fact a direct link to the coming of the apocalypse, then the seven seals would be the following.
First Seal - Terrans & Vasudans discover subspace, this leads into the second seal directly, because of the T-V war (The First of the 'Four Horsemen' was reffered to as 'War')
Second Seal - T-V war leads to direct agression between the two species (The Second of the 'Four Horsemen' was referred to as 'Violence')
Third Seal - The T-V war stretches to 16 years, this has led to military and civilian shortages as well as social hinderence of both species. (The Third of the Four Horsemen was reffered to as 'Famine')
Fourth Seal - Finally, the first appearence of the Shivans and 'The Great War', triggered the fourth seal, the 'SD Lucifer' being the physical and mental representation of the fourth and final horseman. (The Fourth of the 'Four Horsemen' was reffered to as 'Death')
A relative lapse occurs, when the Terrans & the Vasudans vanquish the shivans and 'Death' after much bloodshed and the destruction of Vasuda Prime. Sol only being saved by a hairs bredth. Relative peace arises between the T-V and an alliance was created the GTVA is formed and 31 years of relative peace pass. However, the NTF is formed and the 'Revelation' continues.
Fifth Seal - NTC Trinity activates 'Knossos' device, allowing the shivans to re-enter T-V space in greater force, direct cause is the NTF leader Admiral Aken Bosch, the rebellion itself being the direct link "Breaking the fifth seal reveals the cries of faithful people who had been martyred for their faithfulness
Sixth Seal - Supernova Triggered in Capella by the Sathanas fleet - "The sixth seal initiates a series of catastrophes greater than the damage that the four horsemen had accomplished"
Seventh Seal - As of yet Unknown (Also unknown in reference to the Revelation)
thats my personal view on things....perhaps slightly different to singh's but i still feel is relevant
-
:bump:
-
Shivan Defibrilator, Clear!!!
*ZAP*
You have unearthed some very interesting symbolism, even in the music. Apparently, whoever wrote the story really knew what he or she was doing. I wonder if there is any hidden symbolism in the names of other planets and music.
-
The music is just named after chapters of the Bible (well, FS2 ones anyway).
-
Unstickying.