Author Topic: Of Vorlon Ships  (Read 4373 times)

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I've just been watching several B5 episodes, and, after watching Into The Fire and Interludes and Examinations I got to thinking about TBP and Vorlon ships.

Now, Vorlon ships have those... for lack of a better term, fins/petals, that they can open and close, now, I'm no expert on the FS engine, but, is it possible that TBP will be able to support that opening and closing, via SEXP or anything else?

I'm looking forward to the VE Star Dreadnaught. That's going to be a monster of ship, and, finally I'll be able to create a mission where the VE fight the Shadows with the big guns, and not just Cruisers and Transports (But they do pretty well, at the moment.)

EDIT: Are you going to be able to implement a good looking weapon FX for the big main gun? I assume it'd just be some custom animation, right?
« Last Edit: September 03, 2005, 07:50:27 pm by 1820 »

 

Offline Trivial Psychic

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Submodel Animations:  It is possible, and both the transport and cruiser are kinda setup to allow support for it... in theory.  Submodel animations requires that those components be submodels (obviously) rather than part of the main mesh and have some specialized table entries to activate properly.  I don't know the code, but Bob is the man on that stuff.  The problem at the moment, is that there would need to be some physical changes to make it practical.  After looking at them, it appears that in order for the pedals (though they're listed as wings for their submodel names) to flip 90 degrees out, their support struts need to me moved further back, but start a bit more forward on the fuselate (then sweep back as they move out from the hull until they meet up with the petals).  Also, its my opinion that the pedals themselves sit too far out from the hull, and thus need to be made slimmer to fit in in such a way.

As for the Vorlon Dreadnaught's main gun, I've put forward a couple of theories as to how it could be done, but for the moment, the energy arcs can't be simulated.
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Offline Bri_Dog

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What about using pre-rendered animations as weapon effects?
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Offline StratComm

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It's likely more of a problem of a 3-d effect that simply cannot be solved with a 2d animation.  Those always face the player (and always face up) so they would only look remotely correct from a few select angles and would look horrid from any other direction.
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Last edited by StratComm on 08-23-2027 at 08:34 PM

 
So, StratComm, it'd be like what a jump vortex looks like currently in TBP?

If so, I don't think it's that bad. You won't be seeing the green energy arcs for that long anyway.

Trivial, are you able to explain your ideas? I'm very interested as to how this can be done. Small things like this (Such as the Omega flashing lights) make TBP extremely cool.

I mean, the Transport/Cruiser has a + shaped forward pylon grouping, meaning a basic beam was easy, but, a VE Dread has a huge X shape...

 

Offline Trivial Psychic

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Both ideas for Vorlon and ISA Victory main gun power-ups would require both some  source code changes and possibly some model changes.  The 1st idea should require fewer code changes, but will be more cumbersome to use.  The second would require more significant code changes, but would be far more flexible.

1 - Fake It With Extra Turrets

Have a turret on the end of each of the booms, with their turret normals aimed at the focal point for the main gun.  Then, create a weapon of similar effect to the main gun, but with a smaller beam glow and beam, and a beam range (lifetime figure) configured to terminate exactly at the main gun focal point.  Then get a source code alteration of the fire-beam sexp, so that instead of requiring the targetting of a ship of ship-subsystem, an option of "< zero axis >" or something would cause it to fire precisely down its turret normal.  Then, use a complexe series of beam fire events chained up, so that the boom turrets fire just before the warmup of the main gun starts.  Also, the duration of the focusing beams would need to be such that they terminate exactly when the main-gun terminates.  While this system works, the complexe series of events to fire and lock these turrets, means that they can ONLY be fired by sexp.  You'd also need events to either protect the focusing turrets from taking dammage, or knock out the main gun of one goes down.

2 - Table-Controled Secondary Effects

This second option would use additional table data attatched to the main gun turret entry, to indicate that a series of satalite effects should be generated.  The number of satalite effects would be unrestricted, so the number of these effects that are generated, is dictated by how many entries there are for the turret.  The position of each satalite effect would be a series of xyz figures, relative to the turret itself.  To make things simpler, to obtain these figures, simply open up the model in a pof editor program and make as though you're gonna add additional fire-points to that turret.  Place the firepoint where you would want one of the arcs to begin and copy that xyz figure into the table entry.  Naturally, don't save the extra firepoints on the model.  Now, the next bit of data could either be included in the turret entry entirely, or have the turret entry reference an entry in the weapons table.  Either way, the code needs to know what what glow effect should be placed at the tip of the boom and what beam effects should be used as the energy arcs aiming to the main turret's focal point.  Both of these effects require most of the data that you would find in the beam data for existing beam weapons, so perhaps an entry in the weapons table for the effect should be used, which is referenced by the turret effect entry.  This would be similar to the dummy entry for Idea-1.  The data that wouldn't be needed by the code, would be the beam range and lifetime figures, as the code would automatically terminate the beams at the focal point.  There would however, need to be proper duration data, timed so that the energy arcs terminate when the main gun does.  In the turret effect entry however, there would need to be a pre-fire figure, to instruct the main gun, how long it should wait before generating its main warmup glow and firing, so that the arcs can appear to begin before the main effect does.  I hope someone understood that.

Since the SCP team is in the middle of a code-freeze, these are just ideas for the moment and (to my knowledge) are not even being considered by the team, and I haven't realy put it to them, since there's no point pestering them about something that they can't get into right now anyway... assuming that these ideas are even possible.

Later!
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The second idea, IMO, is the much better one. Wouldn't need to SEXP the whole sequence...

 

Offline aipz

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the easiest way to generate such a weapon effect would be to use a similar graphical effect like the one in VE Fighter,
only larger....;)

at least until the more complicated ones are  ready....:)
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Offline karajorma

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I can do number 1 now. The only problem is that when you fire a beam using the fire beam SEXP it's 30km long. If there's a way to make a beam say 500m long and then end, tell me about it and I'll show you the first one in action :)
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Offline Trivial Psychic

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Can't you make the weapon's lifetime an insanely short amount of time?  How do you propose using a beam-fire to fire at nothing?
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Offline karajorma

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Tried that. It had no effect. I think someone better than me with tables might be able to have some success with this.

I played about last night to see if I could things to work but I couldn't because of that beam length thing.

What I got was this.



As you can see the beams meet in the middle (or close enough for 1 minutes worth of moving normals) but I can't figure out how to get them to stop in the middle. I'm assuming that fighterbeams aren't 30km long so there's probably a way to do it that I'm not familiar with.


As for getting the beams to fire at nothing :D Oh they're firing at something alright. They'll just never hit it :D

You're asking for beams that can fire down the normal. Why? There's already a beam that can do exactly that. When fired a Mjolnir beam will travel down the normal but if you give it a 90 degree field of fire it will quite happily target and shoot at a ship it can't possibly hit.

All that remains is to put an invisble ship with the big beam at the point where all the beams meet and you've got an excalibur style weapon right there.

Anyway I can't get it to work but here are my working files for anyone who wants to try this method :)

Since I'm using a Sath you'll have to try all this in Freespace of course.
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Offline Mewgen1

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Im no expert at this but couldnt you conceivebly make the planes where the secondary beams fire a part of the model?  They could normally have a transparent texture with an animated glowmap that only activates via sexp when the main beam fires.

Edit: after reading this i think I need to clarify.  The normal texture woudl be invisible so the plane wouldnt be seen, but when tht beam fires you could use a sexp to activate the glow.  Then all you would have to do is time the warmup of the main beam to fire amproxmatley when the secondary beams meet.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2005, 01:18:50 am by 912 »

 

Offline karajorma

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You could concievably make a glowmap and only turn it on when you want a beam to appear. It would look very 2D and fake though most likely.

A bnk of glowpoints might be better but you'd need a ton of them AFAIK.
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Offline IPAndrews

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Texture changing? Do we have a texture change sexp? Of course as soon as you start using sexps you're back to having to script every single fire of the weapon. Same with using a glowpoint bank enable/disable sexp. That's really not a good situation. You want the AI to be able to fire the weapon and get the effect. Otherwise what's the point?
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Offline karajorma

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You can turn glowpoints and glow maps on and off using a SEXP so Mewgen1's idea does work in theory.

Problem is that it would look crap in practice.

Scripting the firing isn't that big a problem with the Excalibur. You're only going to want it to fire once or twice in a mission anyway. It's a different matter with the vorlon ship of course
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Offline -Norbert-

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For the Satanas:
You put an invisible ship there? Why not make that ship invulnerable and make the Satanas beams hit it?
If the "combined" beam is big enough, the glow should be big enough so that the "impact effects" can't be seen.
Like a BFRed on a Ma'at or Satis (the beam has four times the diameter of the ships. And the whole ship can't be seen within the warmup glowing).

 

Offline karajorma

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I seem to remember trying that years ago and having all kinds of problems with it

Might be worth trying again though :)
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