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Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Ashrak on June 25, 2012, 07:49:07 am

Title: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: Ashrak on June 25, 2012, 07:49:07 am
Well tomorrow is the release date. lets see how bad it is going to be.
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: Luis Dias on June 25, 2012, 08:50:16 am
They are not changing the core of the endings, which was my main problem with it.

Having said that, here's what I hope they *will* do with the 1.9GB:

 - Upgrade Alliance's attack on Earth:

a.Now we will be able to see every species we were able to gather "standing by" before attacking the reapers.
b. We will see more ground troops (Batarians? Rachni?) fighting alongside.

- Closure:

a. We will have a general outlook on the galaxy and why it isn't "doomed".
b. We will see what happens in every possible ME species. What is the future of Tuchanka? Rannoch? etc.
c. We will see our happy companions' future, perhaps some burial of those who didn't make it.
d. We will see what happens to Shepard, and if there's a LI, both together watching the sun go down, etc.

I'd hope for all the above. But quite frankly, my dear, I almost don't give a damn anymore.
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: MP-Ryan on June 25, 2012, 10:51:23 am
I'm glad to see this is due soon; I've been biding my time with multiplayer and avoiding finishing the game until this was released.
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: Fury on June 25, 2012, 12:34:54 pm
Whatever is in this DLC, I'm pretty damned sure it won't be anywhere near half as entertaining as these.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpeRk1YFn8s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crgEIhI3y_o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSawGT5bgdM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCWBi_7lqp4
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: achtung on June 25, 2012, 08:05:22 pm
Not sure if care. I've not touched the game since the first time through.
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 25, 2012, 08:35:28 pm
Without changing the basic endings I'm pretty sure nobody will give a damn.
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: Beskargam on June 25, 2012, 09:23:50 pm
bet you the ending now comes in purple and cyan
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: Dilmah G on June 26, 2012, 06:12:59 am
DL-ing as we speak.
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: mormon_boy on June 26, 2012, 11:18:10 am
do the new endings look photoshoped to any one?
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: Scotty on June 26, 2012, 11:23:29 am
Photoshopping an ending cutscene is a massively retarded move that even EA knows is a bad idea.

Take the trolling somewhere else.
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: Fury on June 26, 2012, 11:41:18 am
Control ending: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5J-QDTM8Zk&feature=player_embedded
Destroy ending: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgYYYmzr7_A&feature=player_embedded
Synthesis ending: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFzrRz6Dc0Y&feature=player_embedded

Now I'd say that these are what the endings should have been the first time around by giving a sense of closure and explaining what really happens after Shepard's decision. It is a different matter entirely whether folks will be content with the writing itself though. But I think the endings are good enough now.
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: Aesaar on June 26, 2012, 11:49:10 am
Expanding on what's there doesn't help when what's there already sucks.  The biggest problem with the original endings wasn't ambiguity, it was that they made no sense whatsoever, and the DLC doesn't fix that.

I admit that when I went for the reject ending, I had a small moment of hope when the child said "so be it" in a Reaper voice.  Thought they might have actually listened to us.  Instead, that choice was basically Bioware spiting us for questioning their "artistic integrity".

In short, the endings are a little better, but if the game had shipped like this, I'd have been just as disappointed.  Ending still sucks.
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: Fury on June 26, 2012, 12:06:03 pm
Oh right, I forgot the fourth, new ending. Refusal. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PThzItSAT5c&feature=related

I only wish military strength had mattered when selecting this fourth ending. High enough and allied should have won. Oh well, not going to cry over it.
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: Beskargam on June 26, 2012, 01:19:31 pm
welp. disappointed in all 3. synthesis made me want to puke, with its utopian-ness. control now seems like the best option. and refusal just seems pointless
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: mormon_boy on June 26, 2012, 01:20:30 pm
Quote from: Scotty on June 26, 2012, 11:23:29 am
Photoshopping an ending cutscene is a massively retarded move that even EA knows is a bad idea.

Take the trolling somewhere else.
no i'm serious the stills they added look like something out of photoshop and some of the diffs in the synthesis ending look just like the equivalent scenes in the other ending but with a cheap green overlay around every ones eyes

but that being said I love how the fate of the galaxy isn't a hopeless mystery and that the ending was not actually an indoctrinated hallucination(i hope that doesn't give to much away)

has any one tried refusal with an absolute maxed out score?
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: Beskargam on June 26, 2012, 01:25:49 pm
honestly the indoctrination theory would have been a better resolution for the story. and i agree it feels like a lot of the ending for each were copied and pasted into the other endings with a few edits mainly the green glowy parts for synthesis ending. at least the visuals anyway. the epilogue for each ending apart from control either do no mention shepherd at all or say 1 line about sacrifice involving him. man halo 3 had a better send off for the chief
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: mormon_boy on June 26, 2012, 01:48:32 pm
if you ask me the indoctrination theory was born to justify the feeling that none of the choices mattered. it made it all feel blended together. at least now there is some difference between the endings

i do like the "i fight for freedom" speech the refusal ending gives it makes me wish to see how the next cycle beat the reapers.
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: Nohiki on June 26, 2012, 01:52:21 pm
Heh, Since ME 2 i wanted to stay with cerberus and in general agreed with TIM, i just never had a chance to play the game that way (Maybe if i yell loud enough, somebody from Bioware will come look at what the fuss is all about and make another DLC :D). Now i can finally point and laugh at everyone who said i am a bad person.

although i did want to see EDI get vaporised in destroy option, so i am not that good of a parson after all :P
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: Beskargam on June 26, 2012, 01:57:35 pm
Quote from: mormon_boy on June 26, 2012, 01:48:32 pm
if you ask me the indoctrination theory was born to justify the feeling that NONE OF THE CHOICES MATTERED.

I think that says it all right there. yes the original endings were not clear, but the heart of problem wasn't the clarity, rather the endings themselves.

there is some difference in the endings now. I will give you that. and yeah the fight for freedom speech was good. I wish that you military strength score could have had an effect on how that turned out. say, if it was high enough you could have won.

and unfortunately you don't see edi or the geth get vaporized, thus taking the sting out of that choice
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: Spoon on June 26, 2012, 02:04:09 pm
Refusal ending: You didn't picked a color, thus you and everyone will DIE. No matter how many war assets you've gathered.
gg no re.

^
Bioware being sour.
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: mormon_boy on June 26, 2012, 02:27:34 pm
like i said has any one tried refusal with complete and perfect score in every way possible?
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: MP-Ryan on June 26, 2012, 03:40:04 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yja3lL-2m20&feature=related

That's the full refusal with high EMS
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: Ace on June 26, 2012, 07:53:40 pm
It seems rather cheap that destroy, the best option and what everything was building to, is made "bad" by the Geth/EDI sacrifice. Making destroy the official ending (and Bioware outright saying that any future with the franchise builds on that) with the others as more or less bonuses would have been fine.

Overall things like seeing the citadel being rebuilt, etc. is pretty rewarding there. Of course so is Shepard galactic Reaper overlord... (basically just Synthesis sucks and makes no sense despite authorial fiat saying it's the best...)

If the DLC rumors are true though, it could be that they are going to use that to build up to an alternative ending tied to all of the DLC packs:
Spoiler:
Sounds like along with Take Back Omega, the Leviathan of Dis is a rogue Reaper and it sheds more light on the Catalyst's control of the Reapers and betrayal of its creator. It could possibly tie to further destroy ending tweaks where with all of the DLC you get an option such as destroying the Catalyst while letting Shepard live freeing the Reapers or somesuch and maybe even a retcon on synthesis to suggest that's what happens there as well.

Since it seems like one aspect they're trying to bring in is that basically the Reapers while having the collective consciousness of entire civilizations they are enslaved against their will to do the Catalyst's bidding.
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: MP-Ryan on June 26, 2012, 09:40:39 pm
If they create a Leviathan of Dis DLC based on what's been datamined from this DLC so far, I hate it say it, but BioWare is going to pull more of my time into ME3.

As one of the BSN posters pointed out, one of BioWare's writers is apparently extremely well read - Sovereign, Harbinger, and Leviathan are all references to Leviathan by Thomas Hobbes.

EDIT:  Oh yeah, the Synthesis ending still makes me want to make the 15 minute drive over to BioWare's offices and *****slap the members of the writing team.  "A new DNA" - seriously, they couldn't have cut that incredibly stupid line and come up with some other way of magic hand-waving that resulted in synthesis.  Argh.  It kills me that BioWare's senior staff lean toward that as the "best" ending when it is SO poorly written.  Control and Destroy get passing grades, and I actually really like the new refuse option (frankly, that should be canon - Shep's cycle sets up the next to win), but Synthesis is just terrible, awful, lazy writing... even extended.  It *might* actually be even worse than it was non-extended.
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: bigchunk1 on June 26, 2012, 09:49:07 pm
I was very pleased to find that in the extended cut you can tell kid catalyst to screw off. Apparently this turns out to be a very stupid proposition, but the thing that bothered me the most about the me3 ending was that Sheppard accepts the solutions laid out before him by possibly the most malevolent entity in the galaxy... kid catalyst. I mean he's... (it's?) essentially the king of the reapers. You shouldn't be negotiating with him YOU SHOULD BE SHOOTING AT HIM! Which is exactly what I did in my second play through, only to find out that doing so will give you same ending as if you tell him to screw off.

"SO BE IT" - Somehow I find this ending the most satisfying. Screw you kid catalyst... screw you.

Overall I really like the extended cut personally. I can imagine that people are still disappointed that their choices still aren't explained, and by choices I mean everything other than the choice you make at the end with kid catalyst. I'm surprised they didn't just throw up some text with a picture or something. Synthesis ending was cool I liked the monologue EDI makes talking about the bridge between synthetics and humans leading to more discovery/knowledge etc. Destroy ending was not as bad as I thought, and it looks like Sheppard even lives through it. Anything but control ending! That just replaces kid catalyst with my Sheppard. I don't want another kid catalyst! Down with kid catalyst!

Anyone know why kid catalyst NOW decides to allow Sheppard to destroy/merge with/control the reapers? Is the crucible that powerful to influence him or is he just bored of doing this cycle after cycle? Did anyone catch that? They also didn't explain why kid catalyst is that kid you saw burn on earth grrr  :hopping:

This last part is a rant-
I kinda had the mindset that synthesis would lead to a nightmarish existence. Imagine being heavily drugged (machine influence) only you never sober up. The machine part of you throws an error and you're processing... processing... processing then you puke and try to cough out the sickness, but it's engrained in your faulty hybrid construct. You can't stop your crazy hybrid machine brain from humming while it sorts the error. That's what I would imagine synthesis would be like. A cold you can't wake up from, a drug you never sober up from. What a nightmare right? Apparently synthesis is a very harmonious state, like somehow sharing half your mind with a machine is a beautiful thing right? Is it still you but the machine you? Like you became part machine but you are still you or is it some kind of reaper machine that's infiltrated your mind? Someone pass the bowl. 
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: Ravenholme on June 26, 2012, 10:03:26 pm
Quote from: MP-Ryan on June 26, 2012, 09:40:39 pm
If they create a Leviathan of Dis DLC based on what's been datamined from this DLC so far, I hate it say it, but BioWare is going to pull more of my time into ME3.

As one of the BSN posters pointed out, one of BioWare's writers is apparently extremely well read - Sovereign, Harbinger, and Leviathan are all references to Leviathan by Thomas Hobbes.

Do you guys have links to the datamined stuff?
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: MP-Ryan on June 26, 2012, 10:21:09 pm
Quote from: Ravenholme on June 26, 2012, 10:03:26 pm
Quote from: MP-Ryan on June 26, 2012, 09:40:39 pm
If they create a Leviathan of Dis DLC based on what's been datamined from this DLC so far, I hate it say it, but BioWare is going to pull more of my time into ME3.

As one of the BSN posters pointed out, one of BioWare's writers is apparently extremely well read - Sovereign, Harbinger, and Leviathan are all references to Leviathan by Thomas Hobbes.

Do you guys have links to the datamined stuff?

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/12777408/10

There's a pastebin link several posts down.  The new content hints are halfway down the text file.  There's quite a few lines referencing it.
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: MP-Ryan on June 26, 2012, 10:24:18 pm
Quote from: bigchunk1 on June 26, 2012, 09:49:07 pm
Synthesis ending was cool

Someone grab their omni-blade, bigchunk has clearly been indoctrinated.  I'd biotic-punch him but my arm has seen better days.
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: bigchunk1 on June 26, 2012, 10:38:24 pm
You know what just for the sake of argument let's just say I freakin love synthesys ending. Nevermind the rant at the end of my last post. I long to be merged with my desktop.  :lol:
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: IronBeer on June 26, 2012, 11:06:02 pm
Quote from: bigchunk1 on June 26, 2012, 09:49:07 pm
. Anything but control ending! That just replaces kid catalyst with my Sheppard. I don't want another kid catalyst! Down with kid catalyst!
But, but, but...! :(
Spoiler:
ETERNAL. INFINITE. IMMORTAL.

Once more, the only parallel I can draw to Synthesis is Bio-Metal and the Scions from Battlezone. Based on BZ lore and the ending cinematic, Synthesis appears to be incredibly well-developed bio-machinery, effectively cybernetics ingrained at the cellular level. Yes, yes. I'll bite and say that it's still hokey that SPACE MAGIC can so profoundly alter the life-code of all living things in the galaxy, but you take what you can get. (Anybody who's completely lost at my reference should at least skim some of this (http://www.bzcomplex.com/wiki/index.php?title=Battlezone_2). )

That said, I was overall very pleased with the extended endings. While I still don't 100% approve of the direction BioWare decided to take the Reapers (and the fact that I still like my pet ideas (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=80224.msg1613446#msg1613446)), I have to give them credit for a) sticking with the ideas they had already committed, and b) developing what was present a lot more. The original ending simply felt incomplete. That feeling grated me far more than any of BioWare's narrative decisions.

Oh, also- Refusal definitely seems like a troll move on BioWare's part. Bravo, boys- bravo. Really. I *liked* that you could effectively get a "you lose" ending (though it's technically a deferred victory, but whatever).

And that's about all I've got to say on the matter. I'm always up to kick some asses in multi.
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: mormon_boy on June 26, 2012, 11:21:38 pm
the way i see it if they ever make another mass effect (they keep saying this is the end but its like saying lions gate will stop making twilight movies the bean counters will never let it die) then the only ending that they can make canon to set the stage for the next game is the refusal ending. its like how valve handled half life 2 your assumed to have made a certain choice because other wise we wouldn't be here.
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: TrashMan on June 27, 2012, 01:57:52 am
Quote from: Spoon on June 26, 2012, 02:04:09 pm
Refusal ending: You didn't picked a color, thus you and everyone will DIE. No matter how many war assets you've gathered.
gg no re.

^
Bioware being sour.


Because you can't win conventionaly. That was the whole point. It was made pretty obvious from the whole start that you can't win against the reaper in a straigh-up fight.
You want the story and setting to go in a different direction altogether.

People rant agaisnt the endings because they want the endings they think should happen (or should I say, they want to happen), not endings that the devs think should happen.
They rant about the EDI/Geth sacrifice, because they want a "perfect" victory.
Destroy makes sense (and Geth and EDI blowing up makes sense too)
What you do with the other races really shouldn't have (logic-wise) a big impact at the end, since a military victory is impossible anyway.
The only ending that is truly "WTF??" is synthesis because it makes no damn sense with the DNA crap.
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 27, 2012, 02:30:42 am
Quote from: TrashMan on June 27, 2012, 01:57:52 am
Because you can't win conventionaly.

Didn't we come very close to doing that at Palavan among other places, with only a small amount of the raw power we brought to Earth?
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: pecenipicek on June 27, 2012, 02:53:54 am
i personally find the synthesis ending as "galaxy-wide insta-indoctrination" honestly.
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: Ashrak on June 27, 2012, 07:26:25 am
Quote from: MP-Ryan on June 26, 2012, 03:40:04 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yja3lL-2m20&feature=related

That's the full refusal with high EMS

Holy titty nipples, i love that ending. its DEFINATELY my cannon ending now.
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: Luis Dias on June 28, 2012, 06:01:38 am
So be it.... jedi
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: FireSpawn on June 28, 2012, 06:11:00 am
I saw the extended synthesis ending and I funny thought came to me, "Will this mean that there will be little cyber children with brittle bones, snarky attitudes and poor timing for jokes running about?"
I know it most likely wouldnt work that way, but I lol'd none the less.
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ldp3jukzHo1qb9a2wo1_500.png)
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: JCDNWarrior on June 28, 2012, 10:15:03 am
EC certainly didn't live up to it's potential, but every little detail and extras that was added to the game have been very welcome. The problem though is that it seems like they're pushing Synthesis much more than even in the original. It was nice to just say no or even shoot the darn AI kid thing, especially hearing the Reaper (Harbinger perhaps?)'s voice.

In general it actually feels like it validates the whole indoctrination theory more than anything, but that's just because Bioware decided to ignore most of the community's pleas and decided that they could rework it without sufficient input from the customers. Oh well. After DA2 and now this debacle I'm not too sure what to expect from further titles from them in the future.
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: Beskargam on June 28, 2012, 05:14:35 pm
synthesis had that creepy utopia feel
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: MatthTheGeek on July 01, 2012, 07:57:05 am
Quote from: Spoon on June 26, 2012, 02:04:09 pm
Bioware being sour.
They see em hatin', they hatin'

EDIT, just been through my replay of the whole thing. I'm cool with the new Destroy and Control ending. Synthesis is still somewhere between mediocre and downright bull****.
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on July 02, 2012, 08:22:06 am
the endings seem like Deus Ex revisited more than anything else imho. Except the refuse one of course
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: ShivanSpS on July 09, 2012, 06:52:06 pm
The point is, Destroy does not make sence from the catalyst POV, i still dont understand why he want Shepard to destroy him... Control does not make sence from Shepard POV, especially a Paragon Shepard, taking Control just betray everything Shepard was beliving in for the whole game, 5 minutes earlier it was telling to the IM that "If we destroy the reapers this ends now, but if you cant control them..." its either that or the "power hungry", thats why i think Paragon Shepard should not even be allowed to the control ending... and Synthesis is just... crap, also Synthesis its the choice that Catalyst wants you to take, thats an extra to NO TAKE IT. Also convert everyone intro synthetic/organic hybrids its kind of like converting everyone intro reapers...

To me, there is only ONE choice, Destroy, for 3 games has been finding a way to destroy the reapers, im not going to change of opinion in the critical moment... also its the only one where Shepard lives.

Refusal, its kind of obvius, but the mayor problem of it it dindt show everyone figthing to the last man! that end should have expanded lot more...

BTW, i really looking forward to see a FS2 ME mod... that will be kind of intense...
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: Fury on July 10, 2012, 12:02:58 am
Destroy ending also means EDI and the Geth are gone. A paragon Shepard helped both extensively and probably wouldn't want to sacrifice them, especially right after the Geth evolved a step further thanks to Legion's sacrifice. A paragon could be willing to take the risk of controlling instead of sacrificing so many.

In addition, before the Catalyst confirmed that Shepard is in fact able to control the Reapers should he choose to, for all Shepard knew TIM was a lunatic for thinking so. In other words, Shepard did not know of any other choice other than destroy prior to Catalyst telling him of them. Up to that point, Shepard's only goal was to destroy the Reapers. But let's face it, controlling them instead has less collateral damage than destroy and from moral and ethic standpoint the better choice to synthesis.

So yeah, paragon choice is control since Shepard essentially sacrifices his being to save EDI and the Geth.
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: ShivanSpS on July 10, 2012, 04:46:16 am
TO CONTROL Edi and the Geth will be the right expression, in the Control ending you see only masked Quarians on Rannoch in the same escene than in destroy, thats directly implies that the Geth are not longer living in Rannoch nor they are helping the Quarians as they wished, control remove the sinthetics free will in order to shepard to use as he/she see fit. Shepard is "indoctrinating" them in control... also take in consideration that if Destroy cant tell the diference from a Reaper to a Geth, Control neither...

Its basicly:
-Destroy, its the thing that everyone out there was fighting for, incluiding EDI and the Geth, and remember that EDI was willing to sacrifice itselft to destroy the Reapers. Shepard was also fighting for this.
-Control, if Shepard choose this it means it agree with the IM, Cerberus and their methods, with it might be possible, especially for a Renegade one.
-Sinthesis, Shepard agree with the Catalyst.
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: Liberator on July 15, 2012, 07:24:08 pm
My brother suggested that by choosing Control, Sheppard became the new Catalyst, which has maintained control of the Reapers for untold millions of year.

Basically, the Catalyst is a pocket calculator that tried to divide by zero when asked by it's creators to solve the problem of synthetic/organic violence.  This suggests that, despite it's power, it's not a terribly sophisticated constuct.  Given that it can't evolve it's own programming beyond seeing the Cycle as the only solution, something that more recent constructs like EDI and the Geth seem to have no issue doing.  This weakens his threat even more as it is now a question of nothing but overwhelming power, there's nothing philosophical about the Catalyst, it's just a broken machine.
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: TwentyPercentCooler on July 15, 2012, 10:46:17 pm
This is all assuming the Catalyst was telling the whole truth about all the possible options. I got the feeling that the Catalyst itself was once the creator of the Reapers (perhaps an organic race that built the Reapers, and was then destroyed by them - except that they had a failsafe in place). If it was once organic, it knows how to lie and manipulate, so I refused to take anything the little jerk said at face value. Especially because of the pesky little detail at the end of the destroy ending (with enough war assets, of course) where Shep is apparently alive. Surrounded by debris that definitely isn't from the Citadel.

And then there's this: with more war assets, you open up the control and synthesis endings. Why? They're not necessarily better. If you go in with very low war assets, the Catalyst doesn't need you to make a choice. The whole spiel about the solution not working rings hollow to me when the Reapers know they can win without too much trouble - and the refusal ending pretty much confirms that. But, if you gather everything you possibly can to fight them, well - it seems to me like the Catalyst feels threatened. The control and synthesis options, then, are simply careful manipulations to preserve the Catalyst's creations. What's to say that the Reapers won't overcome the control or grow hostile once more after the synthesis? What if the Catalyst was lying to Shep about him/her being the first organic to use the Crucible, and this has all happened before? It seems ridiculously unbelievable to me that, over millions and millions of years, none of the other cycles had races that were willing to work together to try and save their own asses. Javik intimates that the Protheans' cycle was rife with infighting, but the Protheans were also excessively arrogant and that's just one cycle.

The endings still raise more questions than they answer. I don't hate them, but I feel like there has to be more on the way.
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: MatthTheGeek on July 16, 2012, 12:42:16 am
Quote from: TwentyPercentCooler on July 15, 2012, 10:46:17 pm
If it was once organic, it knows how to lie and manipulate
Don't need to have been organic for that. EDI lied to the Alliance crew of the Normandy while Shepard was detained before the beginning of ME3.
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: TwentyPercentCooler on July 16, 2012, 03:34:40 am
Quote from: MatthTheGeek on July 16, 2012, 12:42:16 am
Quote from: TwentyPercentCooler on July 15, 2012, 10:46:17 pm
If it was once organic, it knows how to lie and manipulate
Don't need to have been organic for that. EDI lied to the Alliance crew of the Normandy while Shepard was detained before the beginning of ME3.

True. But there are some hints that an organic race created the Reapers. It definitely makes more sense that way, to me. It would explain why the only remnant of that race would want to avoid the "inevitable" conflict between the creators and their creations. As to why it thinks exterminating advanced space-faring civilizations is the "solution," preserving through destruction, well...it's certainly psychopathic from our point of view, but it's certainly not unheard of to hear of similar motives in spree/serial killers and other wingnuts.

It would also explain a vested interest in making sure the Reapers aren't destroyed, if indeed there is one.

I suppose if I had to rephrase the quoted statement, if it was once organic, it's much more likely to know how to lie and manipulate.
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: MP-Ryan on July 16, 2012, 11:46:36 am
Quote from: TwentyPercentCooler on July 16, 2012, 03:34:40 am
True. But there are some hints that an organic race created the Reapers.

The new endings actually explain that the Catalyst was an AI construct of a race of organics, tasked with finding a solution to the problem of organics creating synthetics which try to wipe out organics.  The Catalyst actually says the Reapers were its solution, that its creators didn't agree with that solution, and its organic creators actually became the first Reaper.

I have to ask, did you actually listen to any of the new endings?  All of this stuff came out =)

Essentially, organic race made Catalyst AI and asked it to solve a problem.  Catalyst came up with a [flawed] solution.  Creators didn't like said solution.  Catalyst did it anyway.  Creators got turned into first Reaper.  Cycle continued since.  Catalyst AI exacerbated and solidified the problem it was designed to fix.
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: TwentyPercentCooler on July 16, 2012, 02:44:41 pm
Quote from: MP-Ryan on July 16, 2012, 11:46:36 am
Quote from: TwentyPercentCooler on July 16, 2012, 03:34:40 am
True. But there are some hints that an organic race created the Reapers.

The new endings actually explain that the Catalyst was an AI construct of a race of organics, tasked with finding a solution to the problem of organics creating synthetics which try to wipe out organics.  The Catalyst actually says the Reapers were its solution, that its creators didn't agree with that solution, and its organic creators actually became the first Reaper.

I have to ask, did you actually listen to any of the new endings?  All of this stuff came out =)

Essentially, organic race made Catalyst AI and asked it to solve a problem.  Catalyst came up with a [flawed] solution.  Creators didn't like said solution.  Catalyst did it anyway.  Creators got turned into first Reaper.  Cycle continued since.  Catalyst AI exacerbated and solidified the problem it was designed to fix.

I must have missed the bit about the Catalyst actually being an AI instead of an "echo," if you will, of one of the organics. Minor blunder aside, it makes it even more likely that the Catalyst would lie to protect the Reapers, if it is indeed capable of lying (or at least lying my omission), like EDI.

But, hey, this is just my interpretation. I'm not BioWare's writers. But, I think there definitely will be more, if only for the purpose of selling DLC. At least the Extended Cut shows a modicum of "giving a f**k" on BioWare's part, so maybe all is not lost.  :D
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: MatthTheGeek on July 16, 2012, 03:18:14 pm
It's less about giving a **** and more about trying to make up for the monumental PR loss they got because of this.
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: TwentyPercentCooler on July 16, 2012, 04:50:12 pm
Quote from: MatthTheGeek on July 16, 2012, 03:18:14 pm
It's less about giving a **** and more about trying to make up for the monumental PR loss they got because of this.

Darn it, I'm trying to avoid being overly cynical. :P The people that spent years on this franchise have to care, at least a little bit. The problem, of course, is that EA doesn't. I can't imagine how anyone could be dumb enough to believe that merging with EA is a good idea at this point. Their history of ruining good franchises is pretty extensive.

It's a race between EA and Activision to see who best can ruin the face of gaming and screw customers for more profit. Whoever wins, everybody loses!
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: FireSpawn on July 16, 2012, 05:04:34 pm
I just wish that they had stayed with the plan they had before the story got leaked. After all, here is proof that their fears that they didn't have enough time to try and rewrite the ending in any decent and fulfilling way were true. Now I want to read the leaked text, but I'm worried that it will cause me to actually hate (rather than be disappointed with) bioware.  :sigh:
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: SpardaSon21 on July 16, 2012, 05:09:26 pm
90% of ME3 is great, so most of BioWare doesn't suck.  It is just that the ending was written by Mac Walters, who has turned out to be a dick because he scribbled the ending down on paper margins and didn't submit it to the rest of the writing staff for review.
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: MP-Ryan on July 16, 2012, 05:27:19 pm
Quote from: TwentyPercentCooler on July 16, 2012, 04:50:12 pm
It's a race between EA and Activision to see who best can ruin the face of gaming and screw customers for more profit. Whoever wins, everybody loses!

I dislike EA as much as the next guy, but I anyone with even an iota of fairness has to admit that gaming in general has come a long way (in a positive direction) in recent years, and part of that is due to the contributions of companies like EA and development studios like BioWare (who I will remind everyone was responsible for KOTOR and DA:O if they'd forgotten in their ME3 hatetrain).

Doesn't mean I forgive them for Origin (*spit*) or the mountains of crap games they also produce, but it's not entirely fair to BioWare to say the game in the ME trilogy with some of the best (if not the best) gameplay and storytelling in the series is garbage because they screwed up the ending.  I can think of a number of films and books that I would consider excellent novels where the ending left more than a little to be desired.  Hell, other current games - look at the ending(s) of the otherwise-excellent Deus Ex: Revolution for starters.
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: TwentyPercentCooler on July 16, 2012, 08:32:24 pm
Quote from: MP-Ryan on July 16, 2012, 05:27:19 pm
Quote from: TwentyPercentCooler on July 16, 2012, 04:50:12 pm
It's a race between EA and Activision to see who best can ruin the face of gaming and screw customers for more profit. Whoever wins, everybody loses!

I dislike EA as much as the next guy, but I anyone with even an iota of fairness has to admit that gaming in general has come a long way (in a positive direction) in recent years, and part of that is due to the contributions of companies like EA and development studios like BioWare (who I will remind everyone was responsible for KOTOR and DA:O if they'd forgotten in their ME3 hatetrain).

Doesn't mean I forgive them for Origin (*spit*) or the mountains of crap games they also produce, but it's not entirely fair to BioWare to say the game in the ME trilogy with some of the best (if not the best) gameplay and storytelling in the series is garbage because they screwed up the ending.  I can think of a number of films and books that I would consider excellent novels where the ending left more than a little to be desired.  Hell, other current games - look at the ending(s) of the otherwise-excellent Deus Ex: Revolution for starters.

This is true, and the overall quality of ME3 was very good. I didn't think the ending was bad - there's just a lot that doesn't make sense, and that sort of suggests either a rush to production or a deliberate choice to make it nonsensical in the interests of exploiting that for DLC. Neither of those are what I'd come to expect from BioWare, which is one of the only quality AAA studios left. But first, there was SWTOR, which was also rushed and pushed through with a subpar and untested game engine, and then the...enigma, if you will, of the ME3 ending. Is it EA's bad influence? Maybe. Maybe not. But I'm terrified to think of a world without a quality BioWare.

I also agree that gaming has evolved significantly over the past few years, and a lot of the mainstream success and acceptance have been because of titles published by EA and Activision. Whether or not that's the right direction to take the industry is for another discussion, of course. Plus, we always have the "indie" studios, which are getting better and better, thanks in part to more support and interest - which wouldn't have been possible without the industry giants pushing like they have.
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: Ace on July 16, 2012, 11:59:31 pm
KOTOR unpolished?  :confused:

Dragon Age II on the other hand, that's really where we see the slide in Bioware's quality starting...
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: Beskargam on July 17, 2012, 12:28:38 am
not KOTOR. the old republic star wars mmo. Which i point out I still can't get to install/download/run on my gaming laptop but can on my parents desktop from 5+ years ago. It wasnt a high quality machine then either.
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: MatthTheGeek on July 17, 2012, 01:09:26 am
Quote from: Ace on July 16, 2012, 11:59:31 pm
KOTOR unpolished?  :confused:
You mean, aside from being an unplayable buggy mess ?
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: TwentyPercentCooler on July 17, 2012, 01:34:15 am
Yeah, nostalgia aside, KOTORs story and atmosphere was excellent, but the engine was...er, less than ideal. And that's being kind. I didn't have any major problems with it on my old gaming machine, but I knew a lot of people that did.

That being said, we gamers tend to be much more forgiving of buggy gameplay than we are with bad writing/design/aesthetics. Gamebryo engine. Enough said. Despite the exploded gib people, floating heads, bouncing radscorpions, and all the wading in the ground, Fallout: New Vegas is still one of my favorite games.

Comparatively, all of the ME games have been pretty polished, besides the galaxy map bug in the first game. Like I said, I don't utterly despise the ending of ME3. Sure, it could have been better, but after the frankly superb entries of ME1/ME2, the expectations were superhuman. I think it's more likely that instead of just being "bad," it was probably rushed and the devs didn't get to flesh out all the things they wanted to. It's pretty common in development - it was just that the bar was set high. I fear the same will happen to future installments of Half-Life. We've all been waiting so long...well, heck, it's gotta be sublime, right? It'll turn computers into servant androids that will dispense vodka, chocolate chip cookies, and funding for a new season of Firefly.

On a completely unrelated note that doesn't deserve its own topic: I keep wondering what my title means. 375 K...it's 20% cooler, but 20% cooler than what? 468.75 K seems an arbitrary number. I was expecting 218.52, derived from STP.  :confused:
Title: Re: ME3 Extended cut
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 17, 2012, 02:06:41 am
Quote from: Ace on July 16, 2012, 11:59:31 pm
KOTOR unpolished?  :confused:

When your console version is bugged out to **** in the first world, with known and fixed hardware...