[Mars]

Steele being a former SOC guy himself, I suspect he hasn't skimped on the 'shadow war.' The SOC was able to deploy a full squadron of Pegasi during One Future and the Arcane is still out there at the very least. I wouldn't be surprised if they still had a significant fighter presence in the system, and I'm sure they have several more warships and ECM assets, not to mention operators on special missions.

[CT27]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but with the additional destroyers coming in Steele will have seven destroyers total right?

Would this be a decent general plan on what to do with them?

1-Guard the node/harass Neptune
1-Guard Steele's Jupiter infrastructure
1-Harass Martian forces
4-Attack Earth/Luna

[Mars]

Shock jump a solaris.

[StargateSpankyHam]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but with the additional destroyers coming in Steele will have seven destroyers total right?

Would this be a decent general plan on what to do with them?

1-Guard the node/harass Neptune
1-Guard Steele's Jupiter infrastructure
1-Harass Martian forces
4-Attack Earth/Luna

This would work...except that Hecates pretty much suck against Solarises.

Calder absolutely rocked the GTD Hood, in Aristasia. It was not even close. ANY amount of slightly competent UEF fighter support turns a Hecate into an overly large and squishy landing bay.

Recall also that the UEF did not even need a destroyer to own Admiral Severanti's Hecate. They screwed Severanti over with...two frigates? It's been a while since I played that mission.

If not for the GTD Imperiuse, Lopez would have been absolutely and completely screwed at Saturn. This was not even close. Four frigates took on an entire battlegroup at Saturn, and if not for the Imperiuse, very little (if any) of Lopez' fleet would be left.

Let's fast forward to Lopez vs. the Feds, part 2, at Neptune. Again, we have a moderate-size frigate fleet taking on a much larger GTVA fleet, including a destroyer. An Orion brought up to the level of a Hecate is still not very good.

One destroyer at the node is a destroyer out of play. Instead, it might be more productive to send it to Neptune. When the Tevs show up at Neptune, it might suck to be on a frigate at Neptune, because they aren't going to commit much to Neptunian defense. This will be a close fight.

One destroyer at Jupiter is also a destroyer out of play.

If a Hecate shows up at Mars, Netreba will ruin their day in every way a Tev's day can be ruined. Netreba doesn't even need to commit the Eris. It has been proven time and time again that a small UEF frigate force vs. a Hecate ends very badly for the Hecate.

Earth is where things will get hairy, but the Feds still have a damn good chance even with four destroyers on them. Let's say that Steele commits Serkr Team, the Imperiuse, and the Atreus, all at Earth. In Tenebra's first mission, we discover that Earth's bomber force is a deterrent for Steele, and he needs excellent pilots to screen against the UEF bomber fleet. No part of this equation has changed - Earth still has the Solaris, all of 1st fleet's frigates, and a bomber fleet so large, it's a deterrent against Steele - he knows it's a deathtrap.

Now, maybe with the Imperiuse covering him...things could change. One salvo from the Imperiuse and Serkr Team would certainly have Byrne in dire need of some assistance. The fate of this battle will be decided by how well the UEF can disarm the Imperiuse, followed by Serkr Team. Byrne has a very good chance of losing this engagement. You can count on Calder leaping at the chance to blow up the Atreus, especially with Earth's massed bomber support.

The wildcard in all of this is Netreba:

Add Netreba into the Steele-Byrne-Calder engagement, and you now have all three solarises in one place, two of which are guaranteed to be near full hull integrity. There is no way that Serkr Team, the Imperiuse, and the Atreus can all survive that and retreat to Jupiter intact. Remove any element of that group, and Steele loses his giant stick of doom.

Add Netreba to Luna defense (or wherever the spare two Hecates happen to be), and you end up with two dead Hecates. Let's watch Steele try and put a positive spin on that.

The only way for the GTVA to overwhelm the Feds and guarantee victory Steele's way, is to add entire battlegroups, or to add more Raynors/Titans.

If Severanti were still in control of things, then the UEF would be in much more trouble from the arrival of more Hecates. Over the coming months, they would be able to slowly grind 2nd fleet to pieces, and bring Netreba down to just a handful of Frigates. Then they can make a strategic push against Mars, knowing that Byrne will still sit in Earth orbit.

In reality, I think Steele getting extra Hecates is like dropping nuclear submarines in the middle of an air force base. They are not going to mesh with his command style. I think someone high up in the GTVA wants him to fail. What's the easiest way to defeat an offensive berserker of an admiral? Give him a bunch of squishy targets he has to constantly babysit.

[MatthTheGeek]

The only way for the GTVA to overwhelm the Feds and guarantee victory Steele's way, is to add entire battlegroups, or to add more Raynors/Titans.

What, you thought the Tevs sent those Hecates alone ? They're obviously full battlegroups.

In reality, I think Steele getting extra Hecates is like dropping nuclear submarines in the middle of an air force base. They are not going to mesh with his command style. I think someone high up in the GTVA wants him to fail. What's the easiest way to defeat an offensive berserker of an admiral? Give him a bunch of squishy targets he has to constantly babysit.

Haha no.

Giving Steele Hecate-lead battlegroups is giving him more Deimoses, more AWACSes and a ****ton of fresh fighter and bomber squadrons, just to list the obvious. Pretty sure that meshes quite well with his command style.

And that is assuming those battlegroups don't have Chimera or Diomedes complements.

[The E]

Yeah, it should be noted that Destroyers are only engaged when they're letting themselves be engaged. Keeping Hecates safe is easy, as long as you're not deploying them into direct combat; when they're sitting somewhere with charged drives playing airport, they're incredibly effective, while some of their screening elements can be detached and used in combat.

[MatthTheGeek]

That is, as long as they don't let their fighters' subspace jumps get tracked back to base, like the Meridian did. There's only so many times a Hecate can avoid abushes with one jump charge.

But that's minute detail when Steele has enough forces to both cover those Hecates and overwhelm the Feds. Or, to be more precise, has more than enough forces to tie the Feds up in their subspace chess so they can't spare anything to try and ambush a Hecate.

[StargateSpankyHam]

If those Hecates come associated with full battlegroups, then yes, the UEF is completely screwed. They'd better pull project Shambhalla out of their butts and...do something spectacular and outlandish. Like supernova all the GTVA stars, or turn the Shivans/Vishnans loose on the GTVA, or cause some other kind of existential catastrophe.

However, we know that in War in Heaven, a destroyer does not equal a battlegroup. The Orestes and Temeraire were two destroyers in one battlegroup. The commander of the GTD Imperiuse is a rear admiral or something, of lower rank than Steele, thus strongly inferring that the Imperiuse does not have its own battlegroup, and is part of Steele's.

It's never mentioned which battlegroup the GTD Hood belonged to, but since it appeared with Serkr Team instead of its own mini-fleet of Deimoses and such, I would assume it's part of Steele's battlegroup.

I'll agree that a ****ton of fresh fighter and bomber squadrons would serve Steele well.

[The E]

It should be assumed that Destroyers are always deployed with escorts and almost never travel alone. Hood's normal escorts can be assumed to be deployed elsewhere, with Serkr being substituted (In addition, note that the majority of the Hood's air wing was deployed in other operations by the time of Aristeia).

[Scotty]

However, we know that in War in Heaven, a destroyer does not equal a battlegroup. The Orestes and Temeraire were two destroyers in one battlegroup. The commander of the GTD Imperiuse is a rear admiral or something, of lower rank than Steele, thus strongly inferring that the Imperiuse does not have its own battlegroup, and is part of Steele's.

What?  Delegation tends to work a little differently in the navy.  Admirals command fleets, they do not command ships.  Captains command ships.  You are absolutely wasting an admiral if he/she is only in command of a single ship, and not an entire battlegroup (or a decent portion of one).  At the same time, you are wasting a captain if your admiral is trying to captain the ship he/she has taken as his/her flag vessel.

That said, when the nominal battlegroup commander (Steele) is in command of the entire theater (a lot more than one battlegroup), it makes a certain amount of logical sense to put your next ranking officer in charge of the battlegroup for day to day activities.

[The E]

Destroyers are commanded by Captains who are responsible for actually fighting the ship. They usually are flagships for flag officers in command of the Destroyer and its associated escorts and fighter wings.

Now, there are some Admirals who like to take a hands-on approach in running their flagship (Steele, for example), but it should be noted that this is generally not a very successful strategy (Note how Atreus has one of the worst personnel turnover rates in the GTVA fleet).

[Gray113]

Note how Atreus has one of the worst personnel turnover rates in the GTVA fleet

Interesting that means that Steele may not be popular with his own officers. Could the saviour of the UEF actually be the deck hand that sticks the knife in Steele's back because he lost his boyfriend in one of Steele's "tactical victories"? That would be a hell of a curveball

[Phantom Hoover]

That... no, that would be an absolutely appalling way to deal with Steele.

[General Battuta]

But it would be so artfully done.

[Luis Dias]

But it would be so artfully done.

ahahahah!

[SpardaSon21]

And battuta wins this thread.

[An4ximandros]

 "Admiral Steele. We've had it with these goddamn shifts. We are defecting to the federation and taking the ship with us."

 The admiral allowed the mutineers to take the Atreus with them, as he left the ship in a transport, he smiled.

 As the ship jumped towards Earth where the Solaris was stationed, SSSteele muttered to himself: "Poor bastards forgot about the dozen Meson bombs loaded in that ship... all set to the remote trigger I just pressed."

[Drogoth]

Stargate, your list of engagements where small frigate forces rocked destroyers were all built from the ground up to favor the UEF.

In all three cases, the Tev's were on the defensive, and not attempting to offer battle. There is a world of difference between hitting the Meridian or the Carthage with its pants down and having one of those ships and its battle group actively hunting you. The calculus of the situation changes from 'hold until your drives charge' to 'light those bastards up' which means more assets are likely committed to the action. Take Delenda Est for example. If that had been a tev operation, the UEF would have gotten creamed. One diomedes jumped in between the Yangstze and the Indus as the Leander and Legionary closed would be game over for both of them. Two deimoses head on, with both of the Diomedes' broadside's ripping into them? The plasma fire would rip them up like a hot knife through butter if they tried to continue the engagement.

The Tevs would take some losses undoubtedly, but the  key ingredient in the victory you mentioned was initiative and the element of surprise. An enemy that is reacting to you is infinitely less dangerous then an enemy you are reacting to.

[Aesaar]

It's never mentioned which battlegroup the GTD Hood belonged to, but since it appeared with Serkr Team instead of its own mini-fleet of Deimoses and such, I would assume it's part of Steele's battlegroup.

IIRC, the Hood was part of the Meridian's battlegroup, and took over as BG flagship after Post-Meridian.

[Mars]

A partial order of battle is already located in the "list of forces stationed in Sol" thread.