[IronForge]

In all seriousness, BTRL was pure gold. I personally don't expecting this to be any better except more models. If you make the models publically avaliable, I'm pretty sure even I alone can make a tolerable campaign with 10 missions in about 30 days with a team your size.

BTW offtopic but BTRL is dead because he hasn't responded to me or my friends' thousand or so emails including my recruitment request.

[CooperHawkes]

"tolerable" =| "quality"



and...

[...] I alone [...] with a team your size.

huh?

[General Battuta]

In all seriousness, BTRL was pure gold. I personally don't expecting this to be any better except more models. If you make the models publically avaliable, I'm pretty sure even I alone can make a tolerable campaign with 10 missions in about 30 days with a team your size.

You can't.

Diaspora is going to have a lot of things BtRL didn't because a lot of features have been added to the engine specifically for Diaspora.

[Locutus of Borg]

I shall begin working on a script at once!

[karajorma]

If you make the models publically avaliable, I'm pretty sure even I alone can make a tolerable campaign with 10 missions in about 30 days with a team your size.

You do realise you've basically cut your own throat with that comment. When we release the game I'm gonna start counting the days until you release your campaign.

And reminding you of how I could do a better job myself.

[Mongoose]

Watching people dig themselves holes like this isn't even funny.

It's hilarious.

[General Battuta]

Backseat modders FTW!

[IronForge]

If you make the models publically avaliable, I'm pretty sure even I alone can make a tolerable campaign with 10 missions in about 30 days with a team your size.

You do realise you've basically cut your own throat with that comment. When we release the game I'm gonna start counting the days until you release your campaign.

And reminding you of how I could do a better job myself.

I didn't say it will be good.
However you are basically digging your own grave too then by saying it will have more features and will be better than BTRL.
If it IS indeed better than BTRL, then great, kudos to you and all your flaming on me is justified.

However BTRL was EXCELLENT in my eyes, really gave the feel of being a cylon pilot. No really I'm not saying this just to spite you, its as good as any freespace game can be, if only it had more models and missions.

In fact all I need to start building on it is a battlestar and a cylon basestar, throw in a few optional fighters for variation and I'd have 10 missions easy. Using the BTRL engine. Models, 2 helping fredders and 10 VAs please.

And reminding you of how I could do a better job myself.

No question about that your other campaigns are great. I said I could make a decent one with less time. Maybe even as fun as BTRL. If I had 10 VAs and 2 fredders we'd each make 3 missions and ta da. Maybe not a feature but on par with the majority of campaigns out there...
Now if you are going to do something... interesting that the FS engine was never designed to be able to do, then obviously that is going to take A LOT more time, can't argue against that.
And obviously you can do a better job, but I said I could make a tolerable (playable) campaign containing say... 2 training missions 2 escort, 2 cap nukin, 2 running and 2 cargo capture missions, anyone can. And I'm probably the most hopeless fredder in here. It would probably take you, that lorne green guy, the blue planet guy or whoever made derelict (my fav campaign great story, maybe the newly redone BP will be better never tried it) or any other decent fredder less than a month to put together a campaign.

[The E]

Errm.

One thing you don't seem to realize is that good campaigns are really hard to pull off. I can guarantee you that no great campaign, especially one with voice acting, can be done in a Month. Just try to do even a mediocre campaign in that time.

[General Battuta]

Using the BTRL engine.

BtRL ran on FreeSpace Open 3.6.9. Diaspora runs on FreeSpace Open 3.6.12. Guess how many of the new 3.6.12 features have been added for Diaspora?

Just looking at the Diaspora screenshots you should be able to see how it'll be better than BtRL. It can do things BtRL never could. It's made by the same people but with more options now.

And I'm probably the most hopeless fredder in here. It would probably take you, that lorne green guy, the blue planet guy or whoever made derelict (my fav campaign great story, maybe the newly redone BP will be better never tried it) or any other decent fredder less than a month to put together a campaign.

Not a chance. All of those campaigns took anywhere from nearly a year to more than a year.

[karajorma]

I didn't say it will be good.

So why bother then? Dekker's point was that you could stick together a crap BSG mod pretty quickly if you don't give a damn about quality.

However you are basically digging your own grave too then by saying it will have more features and will be better than BTRL.
If it IS indeed better than BTRL, then great, kudos to you and all your flaming on me is justified.

You do realise you are talking to the lead mission designer of BtRL right? And the guy responsible for leading the team for the last few months of the demo's development. And the guy who spent more time than any other solving technical problems with the game.

I'm well aware of what features and flaws BtRL had. I'm well aware which of those Diaspora shares and which we have avoided.

However BTRL was EXCELLENT in my eyes, really gave the feel of being a cylon pilot. No really I'm not saying this just to spite you, its as good as any freespace game can be, if only it had more models and missions.

So simply releasing a game as good as BtRL with more mission and models would therefore make Diaspora better, neh?

In fact all I need to start building on it is a battlestar and a cylon basestar, throw in a few optional fighters for variation and I'd have 10 missions easy. Using the BTRL engine. Models, 2 helping fredders and 10 VAs please.

Good luck trying to build capship missions on BtRL. While you're at it try asking someone who knows a little bit about it what a PITA it actually is. No need to ask me, ask someone independent like Angelus.

I said I could make a decent one with less time. Maybe even as fun as BTRL. If I had 10 VAs and 2 fredders we'd each make 3 missions and ta da. Maybe not a feature but on par with the majority of campaigns out there...

And I called you out on that. As soon as Diaspora is released you go find your 2 FREDders and 10 VAs and go make your campaign. Hell I'll even let you cheat and start recruiting now.

I expect to see it 30 days after Diaspora releases.

And don't give me complaints that you don't have those people. Finding those people for Diaspora is one of the reasons we are so slow. So if you're saying you can do it better, go ahead.

And I'm probably the most hopeless fredder in here. It would probably take you, that lorne green guy, the blue planet guy or whoever made derelict (my fav campaign great story, maybe the newly redone BP will be better never tried it) or any other decent fredder less than a month to put together a campaign.

You're right. If I could hire Lorne Greene to FRED for us, I probably could finish Diaspora in 30 days. Having occult powers does tend to give you the edge in TC development over other people on this forum.

[newman]

It's always fun listening to people talk about stuff without any basis in personal experience or fact. He seems to think it's "just" having the models and sticking them in missions. Aww, that's cute

[Colonol Dekker]

I'm serious. I'm going to make a rushed mod to see if it can be done.
 
It'll be amazingly crap
I may well request a badge for me and the guys
 
I'll make a crap viper at lunch. Texturing tomorrow.

[IronForge]

And don't give me complaints that you don't have those people. Finding those people for Diaspora is one of the reasons we are so slow. So if you're saying you can do it better, go ahead.

Actually my point is that since you NOW have those people and more, why is it taking so long? Unless of course you're planning to make a totally different game then that makes some sense.
Now that the engine is done, art is done-ish, don't see how it can take so long.

Mission 1. Basic Training. Heres your viper II, go shoot down that droid over there. Great. Now go take out 10 asteroids in that field over there. Excellent. Now protect the dummy freightor as its under attack by 10 mock cylons. Great. Now practice firing missiles, your primarys have been disabled. Shoot down that droid. Good. Now return to base.

Mission 2. Advanced squad training. Heres your viper II as before. Now heres 2 sidekicks. Go take the training transport into the asteroid field where mock cylons will attack you in waves of 3. Your weapons have been disabled, you have to order your wingmates around to do the job. Now press C to bring up.... <commands tutorial follows...>
Great you wiped out 3 waves of 3 cylons without even firing a shot yourself. Good, return to base.

Mission 3. Ambush. This is first mission just designed to 'wow' noobs. Galactica is under attack. Direct your wing of 4 to work with 3 wings of 4 defending it agains 2 basestars and 20 or so cylons. Zap Pew Wow. At this point them n00bies will be crapping their pants. Job done, this is a great game. 10/10.

Mission 4. Mining run. Galactica got pwn't by that bomb thing in the water hold. Need to mine some giant ice asteroid. How about protect the transport TO the big ice chunk thing and then protect it till 2 raptors armed to the teeth arrive? 15 minutes of cylon bashing later, they arrive and bail you out of that being overwhelmed situation.

Mission 5. Nuke the basestar. Galactica + pegasus provide fire support. WTF WE DONT HAVE THE MODELS YET? Heck all battlestars look the same just improvise. AT LEAST 9000 cylons fly out but all get pwnt by the raptors that are like 5k ahead of you. They get pwnt too. Your raptor carrying nuke must survive, you get 3 wings of 4 to protect you, make sure at least 2 of 4 of your bomber wing survive to drop the nuke. Basestar goes bye bye, job well done. Plottwist!!! 6 cylons with nukes escorted by 20 or so go to nuke galactica crippling it but not destroying. This brings us to SCRAMBLE mission 6...

Mission 6 (Scramble). Galactica was hurt bad by that one nuke that got thorugh. Now you gotta protect it while they bring engines back online. 3 basestars start flying in. Pegasus handles one, you handle 2. You got 4 wings, 2 of which are bombers. Protect them till they nuke that basestar closest to you, then the 3rd escapes (to return in mission 7). More missiles spew out from cylon wing appearing out of nowhere. Intercept. PROFIT.

Mission 7 (red alert). Galactica now semi repaired gets ambushed by 3rd cylon who ran. Standard BOE style fight, nothing to see here. Only downside? Pegasus got crippled so you gotta protect 2 ships about 2k apart. And then...

Mission 7 part 2. Just when cylon basestar is at 50% health, trigger.  Oh crap turns out this was just a distraction the hiding civvy fleet is under cylon atttack . Not much just some fighters. Downside? They have nukes. The civvy group has been split up, so escort the straglers back to the main group.
Then, battlestars jump in, you gotta escort the transports to the battlestars (They will get there in 10 minutes) meanwhile you get hit by lots of fighters and bombers, and a huge epic BOE fight ensues as the transports reach 1k.

Mission 8. Cylon basestars detected over new planet which you need resources from. Big fight ensues. End. CRAP DID WE SAY 10 MISSIONS? OK GREAT.

Mission 9. Atmospheric mission!!!!!1!1oneone!!!11eleven!!!
Protect the mining ships while cylons go fight you. How is this new? ITS IN A DAMN ATMOSPHERE!!!

Mission 10. Packing up. Allright your work in this sector is done. Wasn't that AWESOME?!!!
Now you just gotta break the blockade of 10 or so basestars and escape.

WIN!!!

HELL I'VE EVEN GOT THE SCRIPT SORTED OUT.

[Fury]

Unlike the people who have so far posted in this topic, I don't have much tolerance for idiots. Rather than conversing, I get rid of them.

IronForge, consider this a fair warning. Stop trolling or GTFO before I dump you out the airlock.

[Revan]

If you make the models publically avaliable, I'm pretty sure even I alone can make a tolerable campaign with 10 missions in about 30 days with a team your size.

You do realise you've basically cut your own throat with that comment. When we release the game I'm gonna start counting the days until you release your campaign.

And reminding you of how I could do a better job myself.

You should give him less time then 30 days.  After the Release, he mustn't invest time in music, sounds, Interface and so on. Or make to the condition that it must make alternatively versions to all - except the models. 

[karajorma]

And don't give me complaints that you don't have those people. Finding those people for Diaspora is one of the reasons we are so slow. So if you're saying you can do it better, go ahead.

Actually my point is that since you NOW have those people and more, why is it taking so long? Unless of course you're planning to make a totally different game then that makes some sense.
Now that the engine is done, art is done-ish, don't see how it can take so long.

And that's why I'm giving you 30 days from the Diaspora release.

If you haven't released a campaign within 30 days of the Diaspora release that is playable and mostly free of bugs I'm perma-banning you from HLP.

Good luck!

[Revan]

Perma-banning? The Disgrace should be hard enogh... imho!

But 30 Days is to much time. He only asked for Models. Not for Music etc. After the Diaspora Release he will have the Music etc and must not make it self.

[karajorma]

I'm being generous I know but quite frankly I doubt he could make anything playable in that time himself let alone find another 2 FREDders dumb enough to help him or get it voice acted in that time.

So I'm being fair. I'm letting him survive or die on the merits of his own stupid boast rather than some arbitrary conditions he can complain about later.

[newman]

I don't like the idea of IronForge using my hard work in his.. "work". In fact I'll go so far as to say I expressly prohibit him from using any of my models in anything he ever does. If having a few models is so easy let's see him do them or find someone to do them first.