Author Topic: Cash prize for Collada - POF support!  (Read 123034 times)

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Offline chief1983

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Re: Cash prize for Collada - POF support!
I dug around today to see what kind of information I could find that would be useful to have in advance of doing any coding.  What I found was that I could not find the specifications for PMF, nor the source for PCS2.  For some reason I thought Kaz was using the SVN on Sourceforge to store the code, but apparently I was mistaken.  In any case, my belief was that even for a standalone converter, to go all the way from Collada to POF, it would be easier to do Collada to PMF and then use the PMF->POF routines already written for PCS2, as those seem to be stable enough, or at least already in active development on their own.  But the lack of easy access to either the PCS2 code or the PMF specs makes that a bit difficult.  Now maybe PMF isn't a very good option, and the converter should be written to go straight from Collada to POF with no in-between, but it seems like that would duplicate a lot of unnecessary work.  If the PCS2 source or the PMF specs do exist somewhere, I think this would be a good place to reference them, possibly also link to any necessary Collada information and POF specs as well.  That, or maybe a page dedicated to the development of this feature could be created.  Nothing fancy, just a mention of this prize program and a list of pertinent information.  Thoughts?
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Offline blowfish

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Re: Cash prize for Collada - POF support!
I could swear I saw the PCS2 source somewhere.  Can't place it though.  Maybe ask Kazan... :nervous:

 

Offline Nuke

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Offline WMCoolmon

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Re: Cash prize for Collada - POF support!
Admittedly, I'm intrigued. It's not a wholly reasonable thing for me to do all by myself, but it would be a good learning experience, and the money involved would make it more of an informal part-time job...so hmm...
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Offline Spicious

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Re: Cash prize for Collada - POF support!
How much time and effort is this likely to take?

 

Offline DaBrain

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Re: Cash prize for Collada - POF support!
Well, what we want is a DAE importer for PCS2.
But it's not that simple.

I'd like to be able to store everything needed in the DAE file and just press "export" or "save" in PCS 2.
Subysystems, weapons, firing points, turrets, glowpoints, rotating parts.

The MAX exporter already set some standards for most of the stuff. There weren't many options for glowpoints though.


It does sound like quite a bit of work to me, but I'm not a coder, so the basic implementation might actually be harder than making PCS 2 interpret helper objects and additional infos in a DAE file into subsystems, glowpoints, ect.
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Offline Spicious

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Re: Cash prize for Collada - POF support!
Is anyone working on this?

 

Offline chief1983

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Re: Cash prize for Collada - POF support!
I've given some thought to it but I lack both the modeling background and C++ experience necessary to do something like this.  I think it would benefit from being a somewhat collaborative project though, getting constant input from modelers as it progresses.  Why not just start fleshing it out right here?  Maybe with a more narrowly defined concept someone might be more willing (and able) to start writing some code, or at least help kickstart more documentation of requirements.  I think it would be useful if the converter were implemented in a dll, and for development purposes the dll could be accessed through a skeletal command line executable, that merely accepts DAE files as an argument.  Now if I recall, the only real 'documentation' for the PMF spec currently is in the source code, which is available.  The decision needs to be made as to whether it would be easier to go from DAE to PMF or straight to POF, and I'm guessing PMF will be easier, aside from the documentation being in source code format.  So, with a DAE->PMF/PMF->DAE library, a full converter could be implemented either in PCS2, or by using the libraries for PMF->POF and POF->PMF in PCS2 in another application.  If someone else has any better technical writing experience maybe this could start getting documented?  I just created a page on the FS Wiki for this project.  It could really benefit from some experience though.

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Nuclear1:  Jesus Christ zack you're a little too hamyurger for HLP right now...
iamzack:  i dont have hamynerge i just want ptatoc hips D:
redsniper:  Platonic hips?!
iamzack:  lays

 

Offline Spicious

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Re: Cash prize for Collada - POF support!
I can probably manage C++ without too much trouble, but a(n experienced) modeler would be rather helpful.

Doing it as a library sounds sensible enough. Are we trying for cross-platform with this?

POF/PMF shouldn't really matter much if this is intended for use in conjunction with PCS2. I'd just go with whichever is easiest. Is the POF specification around somewhere?

I think we should have the interface, the file format, who's involved etc. all set by perhaps this weekend.

 

Offline chief1983

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Re: Cash prize for Collada - POF support!
I think crossplatform would make the most sense.  The POF spec is around, yes, but I was having a bit of difficulty finding it earlier.  It's probably on the wiki somewhere already though.  And if it is made to be used with PCS2, then PMF makes the most sense in that it was designed to be used with PCS2, and to be easier to work directly with than POF.  It's just whether there's enough documentation, since Kaz seems to not be around to ask about it lately.
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"You may not sell or otherwise commercially exploit the source or things you created based on the source." -- Excerpt from FSO license, for reference

Nuclear1:  Jesus Christ zack you're a little too hamyurger for HLP right now...
iamzack:  i dont have hamynerge i just want ptatoc hips D:
redsniper:  Platonic hips?!
iamzack:  lays

 

Offline blowfish

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Re: Cash prize for Collada - POF support!
IIRC the only real specification for the POF format is the FS2 source and the PCS2 source.  There is no official, up to date documentation available anywhere.  I found the FS2 source to be very helpful.  I'll get you started though.  A POF file starts with the four bytes 'PSPO', followed by a four byte integer which is the version.  Beyond that, it is divided up into chunks.  A chunk starts with a four byte identifyer (eg. 'TXTR' for the texture chunk), and then another four byte int which tells you the chunk's length, not including the header.  I'm pretty sure all numbers are stored as little-endian.

 

Offline Spicious

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Re: Cash prize for Collada - POF support!
Is PCS2 cross platform?

What I think we'll want are some models, ideally making use of as many chunks as possible, in both DAE and POF/PMF formats.

 

Offline blowfish

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Re: Cash prize for Collada - POF support!
PCS2 is not cross platform, but the fact that it is written in WXWidgets means that it could be ported very easily.

A DAE -> POF/PMF converter is fine for testing purposes, but in the end, we probably want native support in PCS2...

 

Offline Spicious

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Re: Cash prize for Collada - POF support!
If that's the goal, we'll definitely want to do DAE <-> PMF.

 

Offline Spicious

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Re: Cash prize for Collada - POF support!
Let's try getting this organised:
Anyone who wants to participate in coding for this, please let me know by say Sunday.
Galemp, how do you feel about representing the "artists community"? I guess this would involve finding some test models too.

 

Offline chief1983

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Re: Cash prize for Collada - POF support!
I think there's a few people who would be very useful here.  If you go through the PCS2 beta threads, there were a few who were always the first to test it with some crazy models.  VA, Water, etc would all be useful I imagine.  I hope to be able to participate to some extent myself, but my C++ is very rusty.
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"You may not sell or otherwise commercially exploit the source or things you created based on the source." -- Excerpt from FSO license, for reference

Nuclear1:  Jesus Christ zack you're a little too hamyurger for HLP right now...
iamzack:  i dont have hamynerge i just want ptatoc hips D:
redsniper:  Platonic hips?!
iamzack:  lays

 

Offline Vasudan Admiral

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Re: Cash prize for Collada - POF support!
I'd be happy to help in terms of test models. :)
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Offline pecenipicek

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Re: Cash prize for Collada - POF support!
COLLADA support in Cinema4D is up to par too, and this, if possible to do properly, would be a bloody lifesaver for all mod makers.

I fully support this endeavour and if it isnt done by the end of the year, many heads will roll :p
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Offline Galemp

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Re: Cash prize for Collada - POF support!
I'm a little too busy these days to be able to provide you with as much data as you need, but I can spit out a Max DAE or two. VA should be able to help with Blender DAEs, and I'm sure you'll find others with Cinema 4D, Wings 3D, SketchUp, or anything else to help you.
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Offline pecenipicek

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Re: Cash prize for Collada - POF support!
*raises hand for cinema4D test*
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Rain may fall and wind may blow,
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