[Narwhal]

Hi there, people.

I am sorry I cannot put more work on the campaign list as planned, I am not a student anymore. But at least I try to keep it updated.

There is an horrible high number of campaigns in the wiki campaign lists. Yet, only an handful of them get mentionned again and again on the forum as "classic" (Derelict, ST:R, Procyon Insurgency, BP and probably a few others). Long story short : a newcomer would not know by which one to start, might take, say, a less-than-average one to try the "user-made" campaigns, get disappointed, and leave forever.

Since actually giving grades to campaigns is difficult without changing the wiki engine (like they do for instance here), could we agree on :

- Creating a separate page for the "best of the best" campaign that passed the test of time ? This page would be introduced either from the (current) campaign page (top of the page), or by an new "disambiguation" page after selecting "user-made campaign" on the first page
- On the short list of selected campaigns, that should include I would say the 10 best campaigns, the campaigns needing to be at least one year old (to avoid adding every new campaign to be polite and to make sure they have the time to be debugged). Alternatively, a yearly vote by the whole communauty (not only us who go in the FreeSpace Wiki section) would be even better.

[TopAce]

This kind of subjective stuff belongs to the forums. If one is interested, he'll ask around here, as it happens frequently.

[Aardwolf]

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Conservapedia:What_is_going_on_at_CP%3F

Ewwww.

Oh wait, that's a humorous criticism of the Ewwww one, never mind

[Narwhal]

This kind of subjective stuff belongs to the forums. If one is interested, he'll ask around here, as it happens frequently.

Well, obviously not so many people interested.

 "Subjective" is a fair claim, but I don't believe EVERYONE ask around here. I actually think most people don't drop by the forum. I signed in AFTER having playing several user-made campaigns, including fortunately Derelict (and other poor campaigns I cannot remember).

There are non-objective stuff on the wiki, for instance the... featured campaign thing. All campaigns don't get to be featured at launch, only the better ones.

Of course, the best solution would be to be able to rate the campaigns in the campaign list, but this would require an engine overhaul.

[Solatar]

I actually feel that, based on this discussion, a sticky thread in the Missions and Campaigns section may be appropriate.  We'll all suggest and deliberate in the thread, and the original post with the list can be updated and changed.

[General Battuta]

I actually feel that, based on this discussion, a sticky thread in the Missions and Campaigns section may be appropriate.  We'll all suggest and deliberate in the thread, and the original post with the list can be updated and changed.

I dunno. An 'era' list of campaigns with descriptions of what they are might be in order, but...beyond that I'm not so sure.

[Solatar]

It's not a perfect solution, but given that we want new players to come to the forums for information, we need a sticky.  Otherwise, every newbie that shows up will have to start their own thread.

[BlackDove]

Since this crap is subjective anyway, maybe you post a poll where everyone can select 3-5 of their favorite campaigns (or more depending how many there are on the list), and then you just put up a sticky thread in a forum or a page on the Wiki that says:

"Community recommends" or some **** like that, with the rank ordering the outcome of the poll, being a top 10 or 15 or something.

[Mobius]

Fine, but may not work as desired unless campaigns are sorted depending on their genres. Imagine a newcomer coming here, playing FS2, looking for a custom made campaign to play, being told to play Windmills and then coming here shouting "So that's what modern campaigns are like? I want something similar to the original FS2!".

No offense to Ransom and/or Windmills, obviously: just saying that short descriptions are necessary. Thanks to them, people will be free to choose campaigns depending on their personal tastes.

[BlackDove]

Descriptions can be copypasted from the Wiki right?

I found the assembly here quite nice.

http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Campaign_List

[General Battuta]

I really don't like the idea of having any sort of community-sanctioned 'best campaigns' list. Enjoying something is a very personal experience, and I don't think we want to create a situation where newcomers just play the same set of campaigns - it'd create a vicious cycle where a small set of campaigns get played and talked about over and over, while the rest get frozen out.

[BlackDove]

I don't really see what changes, or how it corrupts the already existing system. Once it's done and written somewhere conclusively, plus aggregated with a maximum amount of membership votes, it would solve;

a) People posting threads asking for what to play, or what the community would recommend them, and

b) The actual recommendations would be more meaningful, because instead of getting 20 replies, you would potentially have access to more than 100 with a fixed list (or more, depending on how many people voted).

[Mobius]

Descriptions can be copypasted from the Wiki right?

I found the assembly here quite nice.

http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Campaign_List

Uhm, not really like those, IMHO. If a campaign is unconventional, like Transcend, or reflects FreeSpace's style completely, like in Warzone, it should be specified.

[General Battuta]

Descriptions can be copypasted from the Wiki right?

I found the assembly here quite nice.

http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Campaign_List

Uhm, not really like those, IMHO. If a campaign is unconventional, like Transcend, or reflects FreeSpace's style completely, like in Warzone, it should be specified.

plzno

I don't think anybody should be establishing any norms.

[Droid803]

I really don't like the idea of having any sort of community-sanctioned 'best campaigns' list. Enjoying something is a very personal experience, and I don't think we want to create a situation where newcomers just play the same set of campaigns - it'd create a vicious cycle where a small set of campaigns get played and talked about over and over, while the rest get frozen out.

Agreed.

Descriptions can be copypasted from the Wiki right?

I found the assembly here quite nice.

http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Campaign_List

Uhm, not really like those, IMHO. If a campaign is unconventional, like Transcend, or reflects FreeSpace's style completely, like in Warzone, it should be specified.

plzno

I don't think anybody should be establishing any norms.

and Agreed.

[BlackDove]

You've yet to present a valid argument for your positions though.

[General Battuta]

You've yet to present a valid argument for your positions though.

I just don't like the potential for drama. Vote gaming, people getting discouraged, people *****ing about the list...keeping everything open just feels more wise.

[BlackDove]

While I certainly understand why you would have little confidence in the community at large to handle themselves in the face of something like this, I do not condone yielding to any potential positive development that solves a long standing issue, due to fear, pessimism and hypothetical negative expectations.

[General Battuta]

While I certainly understand why you would have little confidence in the community at large to handle themselves in the face of something like this, I do not condone yielding to any potential positive development that solves a long standing issue, due to fear, pessimism and hypothetical negative expectations.

But I'm not entirely sure it would do anything that's not already done. Everyone seems to go play the 'big campaigns' right off anyway, and most of those are considered the better campaigns too.

Plus the Installer provides a nice bundle of fairly well-maintained campaigns.

[Qent]

Who gets to decide what's "good" and how? I found Transcend to be an outstanding campaign, but Sync to be only average; and I'm sure that many think exactly the opposite. DEM and JAD are excellent series, but I would insist that the newcomers who need this list play with FRED, mod a bit, and maybe even lurk on the forums before playing them. SGWP2 was very enjoyable, but I wouldn't let one of these newcomers play it straight after retail lest it give the wrong impression of fan-made campaigns in general.

Instead, how about a small team of reviewers?