[General Battuta]

*shrug* We disagree.

We'd rather make a campaign that gets a hundred overjoyed, amazed reviews and a few mediocre ones than a campaign that gets a hundred 'okay, that was pretty good' reviews.

That reviewer liked Blue Planet. The community like Blue Planet; it's the most popular campaign out there right now. Most people love Blue Planet. We're not going to stop having characters. We're not going to abandon the mytharc and mysteries set up in AoA, even if we step away from them for WiH.

See, if you let mixed reviews stop you, you're ignoring the fact that everyone loved Blue Planet.

If you tell a strong story inevitably some people are going to disagree with the decisions you made. The answer to that is not to make a tepid story that everybody finds inoffensive. A good story takes risks, it bites.

What we did in War in Heaven is very different from Age of Aquarius. It's definitely more gritty and grounded then AoA; there are no parallel dimensions. It's a story about a group of soldiers and the psychology of war. You can decide for yourself whether you like it or not.

[Snail]

No other campaign even came close to creating the harsh realities of war in a FreeSpace setting as War in Heaven did (or will). Seriously, it's immersive, it's gritty and has some absolutely amazing moments.

[General Battuta]

Oh and that review definitely predates the Director's Cut. By a year in fact. He probably would've been more into it with voice work.

[Mobius]

Don't misunderstand me: I'm not criticizing BP as a whole, I simply don't agree with you on a couple of things that involve the mysticism featured in AoA. I don't understand why you're indirectly claiming that great campaigns must have mysticism in them to have success; that's one of the most bogus assumptions I've ever read.

That said, let's not venture into one-way pointless discussions about the subject. I kind of expect what they'll lead to, so we'd rather stop here. One more thing, though:

What we did in War in Heaven is very different from Age of Aquarius. It's definitely more gritty and grounded then AoA; there are no parallel dimensions. It's a story about a group of soldiers and the psychology of war. You can decide for yourself whether you like it or not.

That's the salient point. Glad you made what, IMHO, is the right decision.

[General Battuta]

Don't misunderstand me: I'm not criticizing BP as a whole, I simply don't agree with you on a couple of things that involve the mysticism featured in AoA. I don't understand why you're indirectly claiming that great campaigns must have mysticism in them to have success; that's one of the most bogus assumptions I've ever read.

I never said that. I don't know where you got that ridiculous idea. Windmills was an excellent campaign and there was nothing remotely mystical in it. Silent Threat Reborn was fantastic.

And, again - there is no mysticism in AoA.

Read the techroom.

[Dilmah G]

Mobius, you didn't like several things in AoA.

And that's perfectly okay, by the entire team.

That said, let's not venture into one-way pointless discussions about the subject. I kind of expect what they'll lead to, so we'd rather stop here.

No-one's viewpoint/interpretation/opinion is going to change here, even with civil discussion. And so I support that statement of yours, Mobius.

[Snail]

Oh, yeah forgot about Windmills... That was awesome. It had a strong message and managed to sway my opinion on just how difficult Command's job was.


Hey, I have an idea. From now on instead of masturbatory meta-discussions, we have to make campaigns to argue our points!
Genius, Snail. Genius.

[NGTM-1R]

No other campaign even came close to creating the harsh realities of war in a FreeSpace setting as War in Heaven did (or will). Seriously, it's immersive, it's gritty and has some absolutely amazing moments.

Windmills aside, I have to argue this point based on what I remember from my own time testing. Any viewpoint inside the UEF's military is probably not reflective of the reality of war from the standpoint of someone in a more...professional organization.

They are, after all, more gifted amateurs than a skilled force.

[The E]

Things have changed very much from when you were testing the campaign.

Not sure if it matches your standards of professional military conduct now, but whatever.

[Colonol Dekker]

Professional soldiering at work with my guys and enjoying a pew-pew-pew fest on my PC are two different kettles of fish.

[NGTM-1R]

Things have changed very much from when you were testing the campaign.

Not sure if it matches your standards of professional military conduct now, but whatever.

Unless you guys completely threw out and rebuilt the main character...

[-Norbert-]

They are, after all, more gifted amateurs than a skilled force.

Just because they didn't participate in any large scale war doesn't make them amateurs. Especially the Marsian fleet comes across quite militaristic and disciplined in the proses and that one mission video.
Considering that they had the asteroid belt in their juristiction it wouldn't surprise me if they saw quite some action against pirates. Not to mention that terrorist group (Gaian something....) who strongly oppose Mars' terraforming.

[The E]

His point is more that we haven't written our main character to military standards. She behaves much more human than what NGTM-1R (probably) wants.

And yes, the UEF operates on a less restrictive discipline than a "true" military force. They are more akin to a police force than a "proper" military (at least, that's what they were prior to the outbreak of hostilities).

Regarding the differences between the fleets, there's a marked difference between them, with them getting more militaristic the farther out you go.

[General Battuta]

No other campaign even came close to creating the harsh realities of war in a FreeSpace setting as War in Heaven did (or will). Seriously, it's immersive, it's gritty and has some absolutely amazing moments.

Windmills aside, I have to argue this point based on what I remember from my own time testing. Any viewpoint inside the UEF's military is probably not reflective of the reality of war from the standpoint of someone in a more...professional organization.

What you'll see of the Federation navy as an organization will likely be up to FreeSpace's standards of military discipline. I can't speak for individual characters.

[Droid803]

Well, obviously certain characters would be more...casual, others more strict.
That's pretty much how it is in real life, no?

[General Battuta]

Indeed.

I doubt it'll be up to NGTM-1R's standards - especially as we recently took a hacksaw to the amount of brevity code in use - but while many characters will speak plainly (mostly pilot) you'll also hear a lot of clipped tactical chatter.

[Colonol Dekker]

I've seen a screenshot of two Fed frigs attacking honourable Tev civil shipping. Is it a pure vanity/glory shot or is there Fed piracy or vice versa?

[The E]

There are no civilian GTVA vessels in Sol.

[Colonol Dekker]

Ok. A logistical support convoy then. I just consider non-aggressors civil.

[The E]

Disrupting the enemy logistics train is a legitimate tactic. After all, the GTVA does the same as well (albeit their task is a lot harder due to the UEF infrastructure being much harder to kill).