Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: -Sara- on September 26, 2012, 05:33:43 pm
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While googling trademarks, I did a search for Freespace and skimmed over the results. To my surprise, just 1 month ago (Aug 28. 2012) the Freespace license was requested by a new game developing company called Stompy Bot Productions (http://www.stompybot.com/). Not sure if someone already posted this.
It seemes that Interplay no longer owns the Freespace license. Exciting, Stompy Bot is listed as the owner of the license, as far as I understand that form.
Stompy Bot is soon hiring. If they indeed will make Freespace, is this a golden opportunity for HLP modders to get in touch/contact with this company?[/u] People who are capable and represent HLP should perhaps mail or otherwise call them.
While Freespace is not yet mentioned on their site, the trademark information mentions for case number 85714760 (http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=85714760&caseType=SERIAL_NO&searchType=statusSearch):
SERIAL NUMBER 85714760
MARK INFORMATION
*MARK FREESPACE
STANDARD CHARACTERS YES
USPTO-GENERATED IMAGE YES
LITERAL ELEMENT FREESPACE
MARK STATEMENT The mark consists of standard characters, without claim to any particular font, style, size, or color.
REGISTER Principal
APPLICANT INFORMATION
*OWNER OF MARK Stompy Bot Productions, Inc.
*STREET 1216 Sand Cove Road, Box 16
*CITY Saint John
*COUNTRY Canada
LEGAL ENTITY INFORMATION
TYPE corporation
STATE/COUNTRY OF INCORPORATION Canada
GOODS AND/OR SERVICES AND BASIS INFORMATION
INTERNATIONAL CLASS 009
*IDENTIFICATION Space flight simulators; Computer game software
FILING BASIS SECTION 1(b)
ATTORNEY INFORMATION
NAME Raj Abhyanker
ATTORNEY DOCKET NUMBER 51929
FIRM NAME Raj Abhyanker, P.C.
INTERNAL ADDRESS Suite 8
STREET 1580 W. El Camino Real
CITY Mountain View
STATE California
COUNTRY United States
ZIP/POSTAL CODE 94040
PHONE 650 965-8731
FAX 650 989-2131
EMAIL ADDRESS [email protected]
AUTHORIZED TO COMMUNICATE VIA EMAIL Yes
OTHER APPOINTED ATTORNEY All Attorneys In The Firm
CORRESPONDENCE INFORMATION
NAME Raj Abhyanker
FIRM NAME Raj Abhyanker, P.C.
INTERNAL ADDRESS Suite 8
STREET 1580 W. El Camino Real
CITY Mountain View
STATE California
COUNTRY United States
ZIP/POSTAL CODE 94040
PHONE 650 965-8731
FAX 650 989-2131
EMAIL ADDRESS [email protected]
AUTHORIZED TO COMMUNICATE VIA EMAIL Yes
FEE INFORMATION
NUMBER OF CLASSES 1
FEE PER CLASS 325
*TOTAL FEE DUE 325
*TOTAL FEE PAID 325
SIGNATURE INFORMATION
SIGNATURE /Mitesh Patel/
SIGNATORY'S NAME Mitesh Patel
SIGNATORY'S POSITION Attorney of record, CA bar member
DATE SIGNED 08/28/2012
So, something is happening! Discuss?
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Interesting. They're not :v: though, but an indie studio. I doubt they'll make a continuation of FS, though it's not impossible.
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whoa what
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Very interesting, what IP related rights if any did :v: retain? I hope they open a dialogue with us if they do take this further.
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Whether or not any future developer interacts with HLP is one thing...
But I'd almost guarantee they know about us. Any company interested in a long-lost IP like FreeSpace has surely done enough research to find HLP... especially since "enough research to find HLP" = "Google almost anything FreeSpace related".
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this studio looks really new.
Stompy Bot is soon hiring. If they indeed will make Freespace, is this a golden opportunity for HLP modders to get in touch/contact with this company?[/u] People who are capable and represent HLP should perhaps mail or otherwise call them.
:sigh:
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They are behind the new Heavy Gear game... we shall see about what happens.
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Well they own the trademark. But that doesn't mean they own anything else associated with the game.
An interesting development nonetheless though.
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I'm BZZZZZZZZ.
shocked!
Now, a new webpage to keep under check every once in a while.
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Well they own the trademark. But that doesn't mean they own anything else associated with the game.
An interesting development nonetheless though.
so it might not be the same game? no space sim?
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now i may be confused as to how this kind of stuff works.... but doesn't the trademark "Freespace" belong to that disk program and not the game, thus the "Descent: Freespace" title?
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now i may be confused as to how this kind of stuff works.... but doesn't the trademark "Freespace" belong to that disk program and not the game, thus the "Descent: Freespace" title?
The details Sara dug up specify a space simulator game.
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oh. i read a few lines of that and decided it was confusing leagalise and proceeded no further. woops.
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now i may be confused as to how this kind of stuff works.... but doesn't the trademark "Freespace" belong to that disk program and not the game, thus the "Descent: Freespace" title?
First thing I checked. :D
I assume that the Trademark on that one expired even before FS2 came out. Otherwise I find it hard for them to have gotten away with that one.
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i just assumed it was the "2" that let them get away with it. as dumb as that sounds.
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Stompy Bot Productions
Axem, is that you?
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So, I've been looking at the documents, and although (or maybe because?) IANAL, something struck me as odd.
The language used here seems to indicate that Stompy bot registered "FREESPACE" as a new trademark, not a transfer of ownership of said trademark. The status assigned to that trademark is "NEW APPLICATION - RECORD INITIALIZED NOT ASSIGNED TO EXAMINER", which according to Google means that the USPTO has accepted the application and has entered it into their system, but have not yet evaluated it.
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Also, a trademark is basically a name and a logo, right ? And not the IP rights or anything fancy like that. That would definitely not be enough to make a new FS game.
As far as we know, Interplay still owns Freespace for all (or most) intents and purposes.
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So, I've been looking at the documents, and although (or maybe because?) IANAL, something struck me as odd.
The language used here seems to indicate that Stompy bot registered "FREESPACE" as a new trademark, not a transfer of ownership of said trademark. The status assigned to that trademark is "NEW APPLICATION - RECORD INITIALIZED NOT ASSIGNED TO EXAMINER", which according to Google means that the USPTO has accepted the application and has entered it into their system, but have not yet evaluated it.
It also says: New application will be assigned to an examining attorney approximately 3 months after filing date.
To me, that strikes me as Stompy Bot having registered and possibly purchased (or having announced plans to purchase) the trademark, where the deal has to be legally concluded. Example given, an attorney examines if Interplay et al. wish to sign protest or hold the trademark where they may not initially have shown interest in doing so, thus a 3 month period to counter-bid or protest the purchase. Or alternately that is the date that the trademark may run out and Stompy Bot lets Interplay know that they are interested in purchasing the franchise, starting with the name trademark.
Atleast it seems Interplay's ownership of the Freespace trademark is listed as "DEAD" since 10/7/2011. http://www.trademarkia.com/freespace-75727695.html Not sure what that means for ownership as a whole.
Same for Descent: Freespace The Great War since 9/3/2010. http://www.trademarkia.com/descent-freespace-the-great-war-75390434.html Maybe the community should have made a bid before then. :P
No idea where one finds the actual patent for Freespace, I couldn't find its existence. All the trademark licenses listed in the wiki about Freespace and Interplay are listed as cancelled and not owner for over a year now.
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*popcorn*
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So does that mean, if they wanted to make a title in the FreeSpace universe, they could ignore Interplay and go directly to the authors and creaters of FreeSpace, it's assets and backstory (-> mental property.... or however "Geistiges Eigentum" is translated into english)?
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Like I said, trademark != IP (Intellectual Property, which is probably the term you're after). As far as we know, Interplay still owns FS's IP.
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Like I said, trademark != IP (Intellectual Property, which is probably the term you're after). As far as we know, Interplay still owns FS's IP.
Much harder to find info on the actual IP though.
So does that mean, if they wanted to make a title in the FreeSpace universe, they could ignore Interplay and go directly to the authors and creaters of FreeSpace, it's assets and backstory (-> mental property.... or however "Geistiges Eigentum" is translated into english)?
AFAIK, if the trademark after evaluation is granted, they can atleast use the Freespace title. But it depends on the IP (if there is one) whether or not they can use Apollo's, Orions, Aken Bosch and the Shivans in their game. So they could make a totally unrelated space combat sim named Freespace Star Adventures, which has nothing to do with the Freespace universe.
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Like I said, trademark != IP (Intellectual Property, which is probably the term you're after). As far as we know, Interplay still owns FS's IP.
Much harder to find info on the actual IP though.
Indeed. However it is possible those guys secured the trademark as a potential negotiation argument in order to acquire the IP from Interplay.
LOTS OF SPECULATION FOR EVERYONE
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Maybe they just think it's a cool sounding name.
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Indeed. However it is possible those guys secured the trademark as a potential negotiation argument in order to acquire the IP from Interplay.
LOTS OF SPECULATION FOR EVERYONE
Yep, like I said:
...or alternately that is the date that the trademark may run out and Stompy Bot lets Interplay know that they are interested in purchasing the franchise, starting with the name trademark.
Maybe they just think it's a cool sounding name.
The description mentions Space Combat Sim, but that is only the current status. If they make it the successor of Windows FreeCell, it will from then on be a card game I imagine. Not sure how that legally works. It's just a name yep.
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So there's a (slight) chance this small company will just make Freespace 3 and destroy the entire franchise with it.
Hopefully, there will be still a window frame of, let's say, 4 to 5 years until Freemaggedon happens.
I'll bring the popcorn.
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So there's a (slight) chance this small company will just make Freespace 3 and destroy the entire franchise with it.
Hopefully, there will be still a window frame of, let's say, 4 to 5 years until Freemaggedon happens.
I'll bring the popcorn.
What makes you assume it's going to be a "Freespace 3?" Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel is in the same universe as Fallout, but is technically not along the same plot line as 1, or 2. Fallout 3 released by Bethesda however did have a parallel plot line, and did very well to allude to the events in FO:BOS.
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Where did I assume anything? Why did you assume I assumed?
Assumeception.
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Where did I assume anything? Why did you assume I assumed?
Assumeception.
I'll let you figure that one out. :)
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Weren't Stompy bot revamping/Reviving Heavy Gear?
I'd say there's a fair chance they might have a go at finishing of FS.
BTW...................
When did Batutta become someone else?
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BTW...................
When did Batutta become someone else?
He sorta asked for it.
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No I didn't :(
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But you can gossip about him now as long as it remains a "General FreeSpace" discussion. :P
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Petition to form a "General Freespace discussion" discussion split..
+1
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The description mentions Space Combat Sim, but that is only the current status. If they make it the successor of Windows FreeCell, it will from then on be a card game I imagine. Not sure how that legally works. It's just a name yep.
:shaking: but there already is a cardgame.
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This all means very little unless they acquire the IP, which probably costs several orders of magnitude more than acquiring the trademark.
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So all they've done then is made it harder for anyone else to eventually make FS3?
Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing :doubt:
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So all they've done then is made it harder for anyone else to eventually make FS3?
Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing :doubt:
If no one can get the IP off Interplay it's a moot point
edit: spelling, thanks jr2
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Is someone here involved in some way with law or w/e to succesfully trace or see who actually does hold the IP or are such things locked off from public sight?
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From my perspective as a common person, given that IP is basically private property owned by the creator(s) until it is sold/licenced/passed on to another person or group (where legal durastiction allows) the only public way to see who has what is on anual statements if the group lists IP in there, or in media reports. I dont think there is any legal issue in directly requesting from the suspected owner if they still hold the rights to the IP, but at the same time I do not think there are any legal guidelines on how any responce to such a request if a responce is made at all.
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Yea I was afraid of that.
edit: bit more of info. I checked on the site Trademarkia on their options to buy trademark names. Surprise, surprise, their attorney is Ray Abhyanker, who also filed the request for the Freespace trademark. So it might be nothing more than Stompy Bot trying to acquire all kinds of trademarks, Freespace included through a web-based trademark attorney. I guess this might end with a bark from Interplay or whoever owns the trademark. It seems that for a mere 159 dollar, you can still file ownership of DESCENT: FREESPACE THE GREAT WAR. That smells a bit fishy, so we'll see what happens.
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Drop Kotaku a note and have them try to interview Stompy bot.
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Yea I was afraid of that.
edit: bit more of info. I checked on the site Trademarkia on their options to buy trademark names. Surprise, surprise, their attorney is Ray Abhyanker, who also filed the request for the Freespace trademark. So it might be nothing more than Stompy Bot trying to acquire all kinds of trademarks, Freespace included through a web-based trademark attorney. I guess this might end with a bark from Interplay or whoever owns the trademark. It seems that for a mere 159 dollar, you can still file ownership of DESCENT: FREESPACE THE GREAT WAR. That smells a bit fishy, so we'll see what happens.
The thing with trademarks is, you have to use them or lose them. If you register one, but then don't use it for a couple years (or even use it a few times and then let it rest) they are automatically cancelled. Another company is then free to register that trademark again, and the original registrator has no legal right to the name. There may be moral implications, but since when have companies cared about morality?
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The thing with trademarks is, you have to use them or lose them. If you register one, but then don't use it for a couple years (or even use it a few times and then let it rest) they are automatically cancelled. Another company is then free to register that trademark again, and the original registrator has no legal right to the name. There may be moral implications, but since when have companies cared about morality?
What I do know is that you have to actually give an argument of proof that you will use or apply that trademark. When trying to order one that comes up as soon as you choose a word to have trademarked. But I guess any 'promise' of using the trademark suffices.
Drop Kotaku a note and have them try to interview Stompy bot.
I'm not that impressed with Kotaku's reviews and generic write-ups. I'm not sure though if their journalism or investigation are any better.
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Freespace 3 = Halo 4, as far as I'm concerned. I'll just boycott it if it happens.
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Um, I'm pretty sure the latter is coming out soon.
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Well the purpose of my statement was that I'm boycotting them. Irrelevant of if they are being released.
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Um, I'm pretty sure the latter is coming out soon.
yup and not long before COD-BO2 if the advertising in Game Station is to be belived. As for boycotting them who cares? for me any game is bought on a if they are being well recieved after launch I might look into getting them, in the case of Halo 4 it will also be after the pricing reaches sain levels, haters have to jump on band waggons though so I wont be drawn into "discussion" on that fact and I dont care if company X is evil, if they are giving me a good gaming experience and I am not being hurt in the process I dont care what they are doing/did to/in that other game.
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moot, not mute, mute = quiet, moot = irrelevant
sane = makes logical sense
wagons
Spelling Nazi, at your service! :P
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moot, not mute, mute = quiet, moot = irrelevant
sane = makes logical sense
wagons
Spelling Nazi, at your service! :P
that was 11 posts ago lol
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still glad he posted about it; that drives me nuts too. i just didn't want to be the one to post about it. :P
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Halo 4 looks awesome, hth
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shhh you're disturbing the pc master race's feelings of superiority
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Meh, they deserve to be disturbed.
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The thing with trademarks is, you have to use them or lose them. If you register one, but then don't use it for a couple years (or even use it a few times and then let it rest) they are automatically cancelled.
That was what happened to Descent, wasn't it? The trademark for it lapsed in 2002, but Interplay re-registered it in 2008.
When did Batutta become someone else?
When did he ever become someone else? :confused:
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When did Batutta become someone else?
When did he ever become someone else? :confused:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=82363.0
Also, your custom title proves to be accurate again :P
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Um, I'm pretty sure the latter is coming out soon.
yup and not long before COD-BO2 if the advertising in Game Station is to be belived. As for boycotting them who cares? for me any game is bought on a if they are being well recieved after launch I might look into getting them, in the case of Halo 4 it will also be after the pricing reaches sain levels, haters have to jump on band waggons though so I wont be drawn into "discussion" on that fact and I dont care if company X is evil, if they are giving me a good gaming experience and I am not being hurt in the process I dont care what they are doing/did to/in that other game.
moot, not mute, mute = quiet, moot = irrelevant
sane = makes logical sense
wagons
Spelling Nazi, at your service! :P
You missed one...................I believe! :P
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If you own a trademark you both have to trade under it and protect it or else you loose it.
For instance Taito Corp owns the rights to Space Invaders. They are trying to stamp down on people putting space invaders monsters on clothing and stuff. If they aren't seen to be actively protecting there copyright they loose it.
It also seems silly to buy the rights to Freespace and then make a game unrelated to it. That would just cause confusion amongst gaming fans. You would just call your game a different name otherwise.
I'd be happy to see a new FS game considering its good, whether it be a direct tie-in or a reboot/spiritual successor.
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New Freespace will be all about Brahmans and Vishnans, with no Shivans, Terrans or Vasudans in sight. IP issues you know.
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There is always that chance that Stompy Bot is so new that they have no idea how things work and (wrongly so) figured that if they owned the trademark, they could make the game.
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Watch it be Derek Smart again.
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Watch it be Derek Smart again.
Somehow the image of Derek Smart trying to buy the Freespace trademark from a dumpster using rats as currency comes to mind.
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Actually, the only thing that comes into my mind is YMCA spelled out with FreeSpace ships.
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Probably they were very curious about the JAD mods and are now trying to make a pro version of them.
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I blame Axem.
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"When in doubt, blame Axem."
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Watch it be Derek Smart again.
Atleast he wouldn't have a trademark conflict with BOSE's FreeSpace 3, as he'd probably call it Freespace 3000. :P
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http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/840/carrierhangar1.jpg/
:)
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http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/840/carrierhangar1.jpg/
:)
Your implications, good sir, are bold indeed.
I doubt Chris Roberts would ever work on a Freespace title. As I understand, the relationship between Wing Commander and Freespace is like the relationship between Star Wars and Star Trek.
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Yo just got it from a games-news report about a new freespace, so they got the **** wrong
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Also, I just noticed -
:welcome:
You're new. Have fun here. :)
Really? Perhaps...or perhaps they may have reason for calling it Freespace? ;)
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It also seems silly to buy the rights to Freespace and then make a game unrelated to it. That would just cause confusion among gaming fans. You would just call your game a different name otherwise.
*COUGH*X-COMFPS*COUGH*
:p
Ahem, yes I definitely hope it will be a space sim... maybe even with some of the ex-staff from :v:!
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So all this remains in the arcane undecipherable writings of the law? No news?
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http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/840/carrierhangar1.jpg/
:)
Your implications, good sir, are bold indeed.
I doubt Chris Roberts would ever work on a Freespace title. As I understand, the relationship between Wing Commander and Freespace is like the relationship between Star Wars and Star Trek.
More like between Star Wars and the original Battlestar Galactica...
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Yeah, I don't think Trek and Wars have any legit bad blood, only some silly general nerd-sniping. Hell, I saw Lucas himself on a TV special about Gene Roddenberry, saying how much he'd made possible because of TOS.
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Exactly, the whole Star Trek/Wars debacle is nothing more than galactic size forced fan wanking on the trek of a franchise's life.
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Thank you. Thank you for saying that.
That is why I no longer participate in the Star Trek or Star Wars fandom. No-one wants to have fun or have silly ideas. They just want to argue and throw insults at each other most of the time, and go "MY STAR**** HAS MORE PIGGATONS THAN YOUR SPACE**** DOES!!!!1111
I hated it then, and I still hate it now. It's toxic to trying to simply have fun. You can't even mention liking both, because in most places someone will throw a hissy fit, because god forbid someone liking the "enemy". :nono:
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well thank god freespace doesn't have any rivals, only predecessors.
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Tell that to some of the Wing Commander community. Apparently there's a vocal minority that feels like FS2 killed the genre. :p
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wing commander? meh. they've collected more dust than us so it's no surprise if the criticisms are about cliche story or nerfed physics. tachyon and starshatter do come to mind unless they don't have an active and loyal community.
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tachyon... ....come to mind unless they don't have an active and loyal community.
Hey... We're still here after 12 years! We don't even have a decently moddable game.
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um correct me if i'm wrong. does that mean tachyon isn't moddable which is why you're modding an older engine?
sry if i'm hijacking but this thread isn't going anywhere anyways. :blah:
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Tell that to some of the Wing Commander community. Apparently there's a vocal minority that feels like FS2 killed the genre. :p
It's getting pretty small by all accounts. It's pretty hard to be Anti-FS after Wing Commander Saga's release.
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um correct me if i'm wrong. does that mean tachyon isn't moddable which is why you're modding an older engine?
Tachyon and FS2 came out in the same year 1999. Tach was dropped like a hot potato by NovaLogic and the devs were forced
to release it half baked. Either way I've got the blessing of the main designers. been doing this 6 years, and I'll put another 6 in if
that's what it takes. I've modded Tach several times. But we don't have the benefit of any sources, like FS2 did. The exe is equivalent
of the frontier regions.
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Update! Interplay Entertainment Corp. now filed a new trademark request also for FreeSpace. Might be just to keep the trademark, or maybe bigger plans. Probably the former.
US Serial for Trademark: 85765250 (http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=85765250&caseType=SERIAL_NO&searchType=statusSearch)
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Freespace Row?
With added purple IFF code?
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Update! Interplay Entertainment Corp. now filed a new trademark request also for FreeSpace. Might be just to keep the trademark, or maybe bigger plans. Probably the former.
US Serial for Trademark: 85765250 (http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=85765250&caseType=SERIAL_NO&searchType=statusSearch)
For: (Based on Use in Commerce) Computer game software for personal computers and home video game consoles; Computer game software for use on mobile and cellular phones; Computer game software for use with personal computers, home video game consoles used with televisions and arcade-based video game consoles; Computer programs for video and computer games; Downloadable computer game programs; Downloadable computer game software via a global computer network and wireless devices(Based on Intent to Use) Cinematographic films featuring space combat and exploration, interstellar warfare and politics; Motion picture films about space combat and exploration, interstellar warfare and politics
Also For: Comic books; Graphic novels; Novels; Board games; Card games; Positionable printed toy figures for use in games; Positionable three dimensional toys for use in games; Positionable two dimensional toys for use in games; Tabletop games; Tabletop hobby battle games in the nature of battle, war and skirmish games, and fantasy games, and playing equipment sold as a unit therewith; Film production
Interplay, don't tease us like this! If you were just going by the trademark, it would sound like Interplay is planning an entire FreeSpace multi-media empire.
I would kill for a FreeSpace version of the new X-Wing Miniatures game.
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Probably just covering all of their bases I'm afraid.
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Yeah, I'd imagine that assortment is fairly routine.
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Probably just covering all of their bases I'm afraid.
Am fairly sure that's exactly it. :( They probably have got a list with trademarks they owned in the past 20 years and forward it to their attorneys to 'update' the trademark rights when they run out.
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When it's your establishing your own rights, you want to write it as widely as you get away with. Easier for you, easier also if you try to sell your rights. No need to go through an application process or sign an agreement again in the event you want to try something different.
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Tell that to some of the Wing Commander community. Apparently there's a vocal minority that feels like FS2 killed the genre. :p
We didn't kill anything, this is what we're up to here when looking from an outside perspective:
You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.
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One game to rule them all?
If FS2 killed the genre it's only because it perfected the genre (and everyone else was too scared to try to release competing games).
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FS2 didn't kill the genre. Interplay killed the genre by doing a very ****ty marketting of FS2, which lead to poor sales, which lead to the death of the genre. That is entirely different !
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How could an amazing game "kill" a genre? That would be ludicrous in its face. What happened was a combination of multiple events that all conspired to make the genre dead. If the problem was solely one of marketing then it would make little sense for any other company to abandon the genre. The wider market merely showed that it wanted more realistic complex and rich human environments, and not abstract shooters in empty spaces.
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The argument goes that Interplay's crappy marketing resulted in poor sales for the game. Other producers simply saw a AAA space game get poor sales and got scared of making space games.
Whether that's a good argument or not is another matter.