Hard Light Productions Forums
Archived Boards => The Archive => Homeworld: Blue Planet => Topic started by: MatthTheGeek on September 11, 2010, 12:34:20 pm
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So yeah, I decided that a retail FS2 TC for HW2 wasn't fun enough, especially since Bloodfleet is already doing his. So I'm now working on a BP mod. Lots of beautiful ships, lots of advanced warfare tactics, lots of differences between the UEF, Tevs, Shivans and Vishnans in term of gameplay, this should fuel a RTS much better than FS2.
(http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/4366/ss00126.th.jpg) (http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/4366/ss00126.jpg) (http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/8970/ss00127.th.jpg) (http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/8970/ss00127.jpg) (http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/7996/ss00128.th.jpg) (http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/7996/ss00128.jpg) (http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/3723/ss00129.th.jpg) (http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/3723/ss00129.jpg)
Discuss.
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A mod for a mod. Ingenious :yes:
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I actually think it is just a mod for HW2 and not a BP mod for BloodFleet's mod. Awesome either way though. :yes:
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Yes, it's not based on BloodFleet's mod at all, but it's based on my previous FS TC.
(http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/7451/ss00130.th.jpg) (http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/7451/ss00130.jpg)
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How does Homeworld 2 cope with the high-poly UEF stuff?
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I've heard something about 1 FPS in IRC.
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Well, 1 FPS with the Karuna. Which is basically the most unoptimized ship ever anyway. And I have a crappy comp too.
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How does Homeworld 2 cope with the high-poly UEF stuff?
The problem is not high polycount. The problem is high texture count. Polys are not a big issue, but 24 textures?
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Different engine, different rules. I would bet that FS2 ships are an order of magnitude more hi-poly than HW2 retail ships, though.
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Homeworld 2 chugs along pretty badly with the MVP models.
UEF stuff make's me fear for it.
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I didn't have any serious problems with MVPs ships myself, although I admit I'm not running HW2 to max settings to begin with, and I can't even consider using the normals-enabling shaders. The Karuna makes me drop to 1 FPS when in fight, but that's probably the less optimized ship of BP, so the other ships should play fine until the Karuna get optimized.
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I thought the normals on HW2 were done by changing individual ship textures to include them.
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You need the fan-made improved shaders and a GPU that can run them. Normals are by no way native of HW2.
(http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/2224/ss00131.th.jpg) (http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/2224/ss00131.jpg) (http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/6484/ss00132.th.jpg) (http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/6484/ss00132.jpg)
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All of that was stuff I already knew and entirely irrelevant.
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I don't get wtf is your point.
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That part of the project involved manually adding normals to each individual ship, which is what I remember.
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Of course you still have to add the normal maps, but I still don't see what you're trying to say.
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The UEF ships would need to be renormaled for the mod then?
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...
wat.
Matthegeek is saying that, even if he were to add the normal maps, he wouldn't be able to test them, as he is unable to make sure they look right.
At any rate, making these additional performance-sucking enhancements when the models themselves are still problematic strikes me as a bit unwise.
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I'm not looking for an answer to what he's saying.
I'm asking, FS2 ship with normals is put into HW2, if the normals need to be remade.
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If the mapping scheme and UV mapping is preserved during conversion, I don't see why.
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Actually I think the texture have to be adapted a bit, for example the glowmaps aren't handled the same way at all between HW2 and FSO. It's probably the same for normals, but as I never got to test out I can't tell.
(http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/4282/ss00134.th.jpg) (http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/4282/ss00134.jpg)
(http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/8887/ss00135.th.jpg) (http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/8887/ss00135.jpg)
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It would be great to convert thos models into Nexus: the Jupiter Incident :)
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no. just swap the channels back to the "normal" way of using them.HW2 uses the typical normal mapping scheme with the added bonus of height maps being included in the alpha channel of the normal maps.
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It would be great to convert thos models into Nexus: the Jupiter Incident
Arparso, the creater of the Nexus Skirmish Tool, was working on a FreeSpace mod for Nexus, though I havn't seen any updates in a while....
Maybe he'll put some BP ships in after finishing with the vanilla ships.
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=67532.0
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It would be great to convert thos models into Nexus: the Jupiter Incident
Arparso, the creater of the Nexus Skirmish Tool, was working on a FreeSpace mod for Nexus, though I havn't seen any updates in a while....
Maybe he'll put some BP ships in after finishing with the vanilla ships.
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=67532.0
Karunas and Narayanas in Nexus. Drooool....
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(http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/4430/ss00142.th.jpg) (http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/4430/ss00142.jpg) (http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/8606/ss00143.th.jpg) (http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/8606/ss00143.jpg)
EDIT : (http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/6199/ss00146.th.jpg) (http://img819.imageshack.us/i/ss00146.jpg/) (http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/6060/ss00148.th.jpg) (http://img3.imageshack.us/i/ss00148.jpg/) (http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/1356/ss00147.th.jpg) (http://img693.imageshack.us/i/ss00147.jpg/)
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Time to resurrect this.
(http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/9417/ss00154.th.jpg) (http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/9417/ss00154.jpg)
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I'm a huge fan of RTSs (especially Homeworld, which had fantastic mechanics), so i'm really looking forward to playing this; the HW2 engine is quite open to modding and can get scarilly close to Freespace-like effects (i dowloaded the old FSNA mod at one point). Will be interesting having the two factions with such different tactics as you say.
Something i would recommend would be to give Federation frigates the Ion cannon frigate's AI, so they keep the nose aimed at their target and can use their forward railguns as much as possible.
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What about Shivans? I know that a Freespace 2 mod is in development.
Or the Vishnans, the great Preserver ;)
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Working on it, given that the UEF ships are too much unoptimized for me to work on them.
(http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/9484/ss00157.th.jpg) (http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/9484/ss00157.jpg) (http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/9127/ss00156.th.jpg) (http://img704.imageshack.us/i/ss00156.jpg/) (http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/329/ss00159.th.jpg) (http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/329/ss00159.jpg)
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I can't wait until I get to see those ships on something other than an Intelgrated graphics card. That, and the hopefully the HW2.0 shaders so they can look as awesome as they should.
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wow! Great job MattheGeek!! :D
Can't wait for the first release!!!
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Screeny time.
(http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/1715/ss00168.th.jpg) (http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/1715/ss00168.jpg) (http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/7136/ss00169.th.jpg) (http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/7136/ss00169.jpg)
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Lol its Serkr^^
Anyway, besides this Mod (that would be awesome) are there other good Freespace mods for HW 2?
BTW: Released mods would be good :nod:
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You'd want to look here (http://www.moddb.com/mods/freespace-a-new-age) and here (http://www.moddb.com/mods/freespacefleet-command).
(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/1479/sunskybox.th.png) (http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/1479/sunskybox.png) (http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/6512/earthskybox.th.png) (http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/6512/earthskybox.png) (http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/3673/bellerophon.th.png) (http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/3673/bellerophon.png)
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what about the Lucifers flux cannons?
I mean; the UEF ships are powerfull, but the Lucifer (and Sathanas) should be stronger than any type of Terran and Vasudan ship. Especially since it's the only capital ship who's using a shield.
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It's gonna have the same stats than in BP. And shields are worth peanuts against beamzor.
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Especially since it's the only capital ship who's using a shield.
Sounds like a good reason not to make it's beams more powerfull to me....
On balance, shields + superbeams would make it too strong.
On story, the shields drain so much energy that they can't install the strongest beams and have to settle with LRed in front and HRed on the sides (I think the Lucy was equiped that way in AoA).
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Especially since it's the only capital ship who's using a shield.
Sounds like a good reason not to make it's beams more powerfull to me....
On balance, shields + superbeams would make it too strong.
On story, the shields drain so much energy that they can't install the strongest beams and have to settle with LRed in front and HRed on the sides (I think the Lucy was equiped that way in AoA).
and yet in FS1 the lucy took down Orions in only a few vollys with it's shields up
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Back in FS1 the Galatea was destroyed by the third beam salvo. I think the double-LRed hits are still enough to take an Orion out in FS2 with the same number of hits.... I'll try and report back in a few minutes.
Also remember that the GTVA equiped their capital ships with beam resistant armor even back in FS2 times, 18 years before the Blue Planet time.
Edit: Seems we were both right to some degree..... With two LRed the Lucifer takes a Orion down to 10% with two salvos, the third kills it. BUT the standard FS2 version of the Lucifer is equiped with SRed....
And I mixed up the beams of the BP Lucy. It has HRed in the forward arms and LRed in the side slots.
Those do more damage than the LRed, but due to the longer cooldown time they seem to have the same damage per seconds potential as the LRed on Medium.
Since the mod's gonna have the stats taken from BP, not vanilla FS2, the Lucifer will pack a big punch.
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Well, remember that the Lucy is able to easily defeat the Raynor-class Orestes in BP, the most powerful GTVA destroyer in service. It's supposed to be a unique and fearsome opponent, and there is no way in hell it will end up with puny SReds.
(http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/738/beamzor.th.png) (http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/738/beamzor.png)
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Perhaps SSL beams would look good on it.
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Dunno, IIRC FSPort's SSL are still badly low-res.
(http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/5146/myrmv.th.jpg) (http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/5146/myrmv.jpg)
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But it obvious that the Luci's beams should deal a massive amout of damage (maybe with a longer recharge time and slow turning speed) right?
Btw, really nice screenies :)
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I think the damage the Lucifer does by BP stats is massive enough. While it can't focus all it's firepower forward, it does have more beampower than a Ravana, though it clearly lacks in regard of non-beam weapons.
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And remember that, shielded or not, the Lucy still has 800k hullpoints - for comparison, the toughest destroyer class in retail is the Demon with 160k HP (just second in all BP destroyers before the 180k of the Solaris). That also correspond to 80% of the Sath and Coly health. So it definitely doesn't need any shields.
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Time for some updateness.
(http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/3145/balor.th.png) (http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/3145/balor.png) (http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/4603/balorgalore.th.png) (http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/4603/balorgalore.png) (http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/1826/hyperion.th.png) (http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/1826/hyperion.png) (http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/8928/preacher.th.jpg) (http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/8928/preacher.jpg) (http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/950/missionary.th.png) (http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/950/missionary.png) (http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/3427/nahema.th.png) (http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/3427/nahema.png) (http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/3351/mara.th.png) (http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/3351/mara.png)
Now why isn't there anything higher-res than 512² for the Nahema ?
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This is looking fantastic; honestly can't wait to play! :cool: Have there been any decisions as of yet on how resourcing is going to work? Is it going to be the old HW2 asteroid method or a different kind?
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It's gonna be mainly HW1-like dust clouds harvesting with Zephyrus, and probably some debris harvesting too. I have to learn scripting before implementing cargo delivery and cargo depot recovery.
However first release of the BP version will be mostly tactical rather than strategy gameplay - you've got a fleet, and you destroy the enemy fleet. Implementing AI and building is quite unfun.
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Dunno, IIRC FSPort's SSL are still badly low-res.
Use ASW's SSL beam effects?
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Implementing AI and building is quite unfun.
True. Maybe have a browse around some of the HW sites; there might be a coder whose interested. Might even be able to find a mod with similar coding and adapt the code from that.
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I didn't say I couldn't do it, only that's a pain in the arse. I work on easier and more eyecandyish things first :P. And if I want to ever release something, I need to not be too much ambitious, this is after all a one-man project.
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Moar updatz.
(http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/8521/anemoi.th.png) (http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/8521/anemoi.png) (http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/1435/seraphim.th.png) (http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/1435/seraphim.png) (http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/900/artemisq.th.png) (http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/900/artemisq.png) (http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/3331/piranha.th.png) (http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/3331/piranha.png)
(http://video.xfire.com/39717f-4.jpg) (http://fr.xfire.com/video/39717f/)
Use ASW's SSL beam effects?
Oh, they have one ? I'll have to check that.
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What will the Anemoi's job be in this mod?
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Repairing ships, docking fighters, will probably serve as a resource depot too. Maybe some bonuses to nearby ships.
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How will it repair, docking or an area of effect?
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Nice work on the Orion debris. :yes:
Is there any chance to get beam piercing into HW2 as well?
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Beam pierce already in HW2, although without huge flames behind them.
And repair with the Anemoi will be docking, much like in the BP mission 13 : Preserving the Balance. I have yet to determine if it would be more practical to have the ships dock on the Anemoi, or the contrary.
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I actually don't think the Anemoi is docked in that mission any more because of hull clipping issues. :(
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orly ?
Well, docking would still be the most practical and most realist way to go with the Anemoi methinks.
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You could copy Complex and have it auto-deploy some scripted, non-controllable transports that automatically fly out and repair nearby friendly vessels.
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Forget about scripting. I have enough things to do before I reach that stage.
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Bump
(http://video.xfire.com/3b4c9d-4.jpg) (http://fr.xfire.com/video/3b4c9d/)
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Those'd be hot in FSO too.. :eek:
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If you mean the shockwaves alone, they are from FSO (though not the MVP ones, but from Earth defense I think -> http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=72539.0). The explosion flashes though are from Homeworld.
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Time for some optimized Fed stuff.
(http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/5969/solaris.th.png) (http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/5969/solaris.png) (http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/6940/optirayana.th.jpg) (http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/6940/optirayana.jpg)
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a little too dark, IMO.
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I'd think you could some highlights/shine to the panels if that is possible in HW2. That way you can actually fake some proper HDR and keep the darkish effect, but more illuminated.
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Those look good, aside from the lack of normal maps.
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I'd think you could some highlights/shine to the panels if that is possible in HW2. That way you can actually fake some proper HDR and keep the darkish effect, but more illuminated.
Well, that's what the new shaders that I can't run are about. Go buy me a new comp, and we'll talk about it, hey :p
But yeah, a bit dark. Haven't tweaked the lighting settings of those maps yet.
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Homeworld 2 is an old engine and I have to say all things considered those optimised ships look sweet!
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I'm wondering how fighters will be handled in this mod. While UEF craft seem pretty role specific (Fighter, Advanced Fighter, Gunship, Missile Boat, Stealth Fighter, Bomber, Super-Bomber) it's more in shades of grey for the GTVA. May I suggest role-related designations (Maxim Strike, Treb Flight) rather than model-based (GTF Hercules Mark II, GTF Ares) units? It would fit in quite well with the way BP is thought out.
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Could be an idea, but I'll probably still have those role-related squads based on single ship classes. HW2 can't handle multiple ship classes in the same squad anyway.
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An idea going through my head concerning fighters (for when the mod is more finished and your polishing it up) was, if wings can have subsystems like on larger ships that apply to the whole wing, have each primary and secondary bank as a subsystem slot with the default installed, then have the other possible weapons of each subsystem as other subsystem options. It would be a little messy as he'd have to dismantle the first missile subsystem to put in the new one (unless the replace mechanic the Vaygr carrier has on its facility module can be used in some way), but it would allow almost full customisation of the ships (the one downside being you couldn't have different loadouts in the same wing).
Again, i meant that for after the mod is more done; for now just going with default loadouts would be wise. The role-related designation idea is quite cool though. :)
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It is a cool idea, but it would mean loads and loads of individual ships having subsystems and it'll likely be hard for the HW2 engine to handle. Still, it'd be worth doing like you said though once the mod is more complete.
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Given that each fighter has already a shield subsystem, and that each capital ship will have multiple turret subsystems, there's definitely gonna be enough subs yet for the game to handle. But eh, role-based squads will probably wait until I have imported enough ships anyway.
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More progress.
(http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/1593/oriondish.png)
(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/7646/oriondish2.png)
And at last some UEF fireworks :
(http://video.xfire.com/3d2ddb-4.jpg) (http://fr.xfire.com/video/3d2ddb/)
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No shockwaves on bomb explosions? :(
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Nope, cause I have yet to make them look right. They will happen someday though.
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How do you deal with destroyed turrets ?
-Do they rebuild themselves over time ?
-Do you have to rebuild them manually ?
-Or do they stay dead ?
( ps.I like the background noise on your video :P )
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OMG ! Pretty awesome video :yes:
I want a demo NAOW :D
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You don't destroy turrets, you disable them. They stay offline for a while and then start repairing themselves.
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God, Orions are so sexy...
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Leaving for a week with no internets, so I leave you a little christmas gift in advance :)
(http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/5969/solaris.png)
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Joyeux Noël et bonnes vacances !
Happy holiday and Merry Christmas !
OH OH OH ! :pimp: (sorry, but there is no Santa smiley !)
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God, Solaris' are so sexy...
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Have a good Chrimbo MatthTheGeek, and thanks for your work on this; i truly can't wait to play it! I just wish i had the know-how to be able to help in some way :(.
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I've always wanted to ask a HW2 modder this, but for some reason just never got around to doing it: how moddable is it, really? Because it seems like every HW2 mod ever has been rather crude, especially when it came to the UI. PDS, the newer TFS mod, the BSG mod, pretty much everything I've ever downloaded for the game has has a virtually unchanged GUI, and used crude workarounds to introduce new gameplay mechanics. For example in the BSG mod you change firing modes (direct ship-to-ship fire or anti-missile saturation) by switching tactics modes, rather than having a new button added just for it. And both the PDS and TFS mods have every ship able to lay mines, or at least as far as the GUI is concerned they can.
The only time I've seen the GUI modified at all was the Complex mod. So, what's the deal? Is it just really hard to do, or are modmakers for HW2 just really lazy by and large for some reason? Note that I'm not saying you're lazy.
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The big problem with HW2 is that it's just very undocumented. You have to find out a lot of stuff by trial and error, and there isn't much commentaries in files to help you out with this. One significant thing is also that HW2 modding is basically dead, or dying for the most part. We are only a handful to still be actively modding it, literally.
To be honest, the UI is most of the time the least of the modders' worries when making a new mod. Getting assets ingame, creating effects, balancing stuff and creating gameplay mechanics are the most painful overall.
However if you look closely, HW2 is very moddable and powerful for a 7 years-old engine. Nearly all aspects of the game can be altered, ranging from effects, ships, AI, maps or yes, the UI itself. It is even superior to FSO in term of optimization and consistency of framerate, with similar assets, at least according to those who tested my mod.
One of the main problem is that it's a RTS, and hence you need to completely rethink the gameplay mechanics, the balance and the gametypes to have something that doesn't feel like a simple swap of models over the retail game. This aspect is much more sensible than in a game like FS, where having new ships and new missions is more than enough to enjoy a new experience - especially since single-player campaign scripting is virtually nonexistant in HW2 modding. Not that it's impossible, only that noone has attempted it yet, and because until very recently, we didn't have any properly decompiled campaign scripts to base ourself on.
The second main problem is that the engine isn't going anywhere now, whereas FSO has still a bright future before it. The new shaders are a substantial upgrade over the engine, but you often encounter hardcoded barriers that you have to find your way around when trying to implement new features - for example, slash beams, that I still have no idea how to implement in HW2.
Keep also in mind that this mod is still a one-man-made Total Conversion. You can guess how a huge amount of work it is. And feature creeping and real life are eating most of my time.
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DoublePostNess
(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/8937/uhlanwep.png)
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(http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/8182/ss00073.jpg)
We has normals in. Not working as intended tho. My guess is that they need a heightmap to stabilise. Currently they are a bit floaty.
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Man I'm just drooling over the thought of all this. I wish there was some way I could helpbut I can't mod for sh*t.
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Hey Matth, if you have a team, why don't you ask for hosting here on HLP? ;)
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Hey Matth, if you have a team, why don't you ask for hosting here on HLP? ;)
Request has been made already, in fact.
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Woah. And I was semi-joking about that statement.
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(http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/8887/ss00135.jpg)
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Ah shadows, the one thing FreeSpace doesn't have. :P
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This might be a stupid question, are the red flare things Apocalypse torps?
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i believe they are.
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so pretty
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Yup. Fun HW2 missile launching effects. Basically, a lot of particules spawned behind the missile as a firetrail a mere second after missile launch.
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:warp: