Author Topic: Star Field Wishlist  (Read 19219 times)

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Offline Kazan

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Things i'd like to see in the starfield:

Globular Clusters
Open Clusters
Distant Galaxies
Variance in star size (closer stars)
Star "lanes" (Ala milky way)
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Offline Bobboau

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for me it would be rebuilding the whole thing from the ground up and haveing generalised background images that you can specify diferent features for.
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Hee and a real easy way to make Freelancer and X3: Reunion run for their money would be backgrounds just as good if not better than theirs, no?  ;7

 

Offline StratComm

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You apparently never saw a mission set in front of one of Lightspeed's nebulas ;)



I'm still trying to figure out how you'd make displaying "distant galaxies" any different from displaying normal stars though.  Last I checked, the resolution that we were running our monitors at only included a couple of million dots in the screen area.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2006, 12:50:07 am by StratComm »
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Last edited by StratComm on 08-23-2027 at 08:34 PM

 

Offline Prophet

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I think that by galaxies, he means things like this in the background. I have never really cheered at the idea.
And yes, FS nebulas are all nice nowdays... Its the stars that need improwing. Just go look at the sky in a pitch black, clear night. That sight alone is more awsome than a whole bunch candy coloured nebulas. That's what I would like to see in Freespace.

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Offline CP5670

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The starfield background does a decent job of that IMO:



It does need a lot more smaller stars sprinkled in it though. I think just bumping the star limit in FSO beyond the default 2000 (which is way too low) would help a lot with that.

 

Offline WMCoolmon

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The ability to specify 3D coordinates for a mission and have FS2 generate a realistic starfield based on that. :D
-C

 

Offline Grug

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The ability to specify 3D coordinates for a mission and have FS2 generate a realistic starfield based on that. :D
Sounds good. ;)

 

Offline Kazan

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those nebulae are indeed beautiful - especially the one CP posted and shouts out to lightspeed's awesome abilities.

however it's not only less-pretty to be missing distant galaxies it's unrealistic.  Also all the star being of the same apparent magnitude and the same random distribution is unrealistic. 

I guess it's something i'll have to work on (this can be done in code OR in nebulae graphics by adding stars to your nebulae (hint hint LS, yes i know you don't like it))
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Offline StratComm

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Lightspeed is definitely no longer here, so he's not going to get that hint.  And I still have absolutely no idea what you think "distant galaxies" would look like in a game where the absolute largest they could be would be a single pixel.  Differing magnitudes and colors, sure.  Non-uniform distribution, sure.  But "distant galaxies" doesn't make any astronomical sense for something with a fixed, relatively low resolution.
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Last edited by StratComm on 08-23-2027 at 08:34 PM

 

Offline Kazan

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Lightspeed left while i was away!?!?! WTF!! NOOOO


As for a single pixel? where did you get that idea?  You can see the SMC LMC, Andromeda and some others with a low powered telescope from _inside_ the atmosphere - you'd be able to see a couple (say 3-5) easily in open space
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Offline Mehrpack

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hi,
to distant galaxies: galaxies they are far away, must look like stars, but i think they have a other color, because they go away or came to our galaxy.

the near galaxy mabe you can it, that they not a star.
but i doesnt think that you can it really good see without any telecope.

but what i really missing is the center of the milky way in the missions.

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Offline Kazan

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it takes only a very low power telescope to see andromeda from the atmosphere - and i think the LMC and SMC are naked eye visible in the souther hemisphere

3-5 small objects that are clearly galaxies in the background, and then the starfield having variably sized stars would add a lot of atmosphere


tell me this spiral wouldn't be pretty to be in the background

« Last Edit: April 18, 2006, 10:39:02 am by Kazan »
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Offline Kazan

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or as i more had in mind - our closest major galactic neighbor M31 (Andromeda)

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Offline Kazan

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Apparent Magnitude (smaller = more visible, naked eye threshold on a clear night with low light polution = 6)

Andromeda: 3.4
LMC: 0.9
SMC: 2.7

all of these are naked eye visible INSIDE the atmosphere
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Offline StratComm

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That spiral wouldn't be pretty in the background.  Being that close to a galaxy and yet in a dense starfield is just not what I have in mind for "immersion" as there are very select few places in the known universe where you could get that vista that large.

What's the magnification on those images, Kazan?  Please, do tell.  More to the point, what fraction of the sky (or the starfield) does our nearest neighbor, andromeda, take up?  Is it more than three arc-seconds of the night sky?  Because unless it is it simply will not be resolvable at maximum resolution in the freespace engine.

Yes, I know they are not stars.  Yes, I know only minor magnification can resolve the difference between a star and a galaxy.  But you can't tell that when you're looking at the whole sky unless you know what to look for.  My question isn't if they are naked-eye visible.  My question is are they distinguishable from a star without equipment?

EDIT: And besides, there is absolutely nothing stopping you or anyone else from taking a galaxy image and making it a background bitmap.  Support for that has been there since retail.  It's painfully unrealistic to have huge galaxies floating around like that, but whatever floats your boat.  Putting them in autogenerated starfields would be silly.

I also don't see what you're talking about with the stars all being the same apparent magnitude.  There's quite a bit of variance in the brightness of those starfield pixels in both the shots CP and I posted.  Sure, there are no extremely dim stars in there, but that's a consequence of computational power rather than art or even the starfield setup itself.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2006, 11:08:07 am by StratComm »
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Last edited by StratComm on 08-23-2027 at 08:34 PM

 

Offline Prophet

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I tend to agree with StratComm about the Galaxies. Maybe it should be made to a poll. But let us not let it take the other thing off our minds.
The starfield. Background nebulas aside, FS2 starfield looks like crap and needs to be improved. Can we all atleast agree on this?
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Offline Kazan

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when the ****ing hell did i say huge?

do me a favor and NEVER presume something i didn't say

ever

i mean it


that pisses me off ESPECIALLY IN ARGUMENTS

Andromeda is big enogh that it was considered a nebulae before we knew there were other galaxies! 

Quote
Even under suburban skies you should be able to see it with your naked eyes, as a 1° fuzzy patch of light. If you live in an area with heavy light pollution, try to find it with binoculars (or your finderscope).

http://www.backyard-astro.com/focusonarchive/andromeda/andromeda.html

more accurate:

M31 is 178x63 (arc min) http://www.seds.org/messier/m/m031.html
the LMC is 650x550 (arc min) http://www.seds.org/messier/xtra/ngc/lmc.html
the SMC is 280 x 160 (arc min) http://www.seds.org/messier/xtra/ngc/smc.html


so the answer to your question is: Yes, they can be naked eye distinguishable!

putting SMALL background graphics to properly depict our neighbors in the local cluster would add some nice feel - even if they have to be displayed as some SMALL ammount of magnification - which i don't think they would have to be magified

since StrattComm seems to have the pixels<->arcseconds conversion already fixed out he can figure their sizes for me

(IIRC 1 degree = 60 arcmin = 3600 arcseconds, correct?)
« Last Edit: April 18, 2006, 11:35:10 am by Kazan »
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Offline jr2

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Anyone reading this thread might want to check this similar thread out:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,38731.0.html

EDIT: Oops.  Changed link to point to the topic, not a single message.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2006, 01:40:30 pm by jr2 »

 

Offline Prophet

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Kazan calm down. Point here being that ingame the galaxy spiral would be at the size of your lead idicator. For it to be larger, you should be somewhere in the emptyness between galaxies. And FS FTL technology prevents that. Thus they would be only marginally different from big stars ingame.
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I am not breaking radio silence just cos' you lot got spooked by a dead flying ****ing cow. -Sergeant Harry Wells/Dog Soldiers


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