[mandobardanjusik]

ok, with the utility tug needing bobbtman's help to finish the texture, I have been working with some help from swash to do some reimaging on the dagger stafighter, and we have finished the mesh, and I am now awaiting brand-x's approval on it, though I am working on the UV now.
so here is a bit of background. THe dagger starfighter was the predecessor to the Tie fighter, and was sold to a large amount of pirates and mercanies. Shortly prior to the wars open selling was stopped, and a decent stockpile was created, however sienar kept them in storage during the war, afterwards with the instatement of Imperial doctrine it was used to develop the TIE fighter, as it itself didnt fit into it with its hyperdrive, and medium cost, and also with a length of 14meters. still used by the empire at remote posts, and for patrols in areas where only a handful of corvettes and cruisers are available. quite a few were acquired by the Rebels from mercs and some smaller groups, along with other older craft like the Z-95. its engines have been heavily improved to give it an edge. for the most part its stats are similar to the tie fighter, however it is extremely fast with its 3 main engine intakes, though not very maneuverable. note, none of this is official, just some of my thoughts, and some balance related stuff that swash and I discussed slightly

[Dragon]

Could you try making a TIE Phantom based on this model?
A cloaking fighter could be a nice addition to FoTG.

[mandobardanjusik]

well, its an option, but its up to swash and chief it will fit game-dynamics wise, and of course brand has final say on all designs. Also any comments on the dagger?

[Dragon]

Looks nice, like some sort of TIE Phantom prototype. I guess it could work as a predecessor of TIE series.

[-Norbert-]

If it's non-canon, maybe a little adjustment to the backstory would be nice.
Like this kind of design being abondened in favour of the much cheaper TIE fighter, but when it showed that the TIE just didn't cut it, some of the features of the Dagger were incorporated into the TIE design to create the TIE Interceptor and later the Phantom.

[mandobardanjusik]

well, it is canon, though little is known about it during and after the clone wars, the only thing known for sure is that it realy IS canonicly the predecessor to the tie fighter, so saying that it was used to develop other fighters as well isnt out of the question. also, the deal can be is that the X-38 was direct redesign and upscaling of it. so yeah we can be very flexible with its OT/dark times story. final back story is up to either chief or swash I think.

[newman]

There is a very simple definition of canon. Anything that was in the movies is canon. Anything else isn't. Otherwise all of the EU craft that ended up on wookiepedia could be considered canon, which is a very short step from saying everything is. So no, it' isn't canon. That doesn't mean that it automatically sucks or doesn't have a place in the game - games often need to expand on things seen on screen due to their nature. But you can't just go call something canon because it's on wookiepedia (I assume it is anyway).

[mandobardanjusik]

ok, then it is game canon, EU, not official movie canon

[TopAce]

There is a very simple definition of canon. Anything that was in the movies is canon. Anything else isn't. Otherwise all of the EU craft that ended up on wookiepedia could be considered canon, which is a very short step from saying everything is. So no, it' isn't canon. That doesn't mean that it automatically sucks or doesn't have a place in the game - games often need to expand on things seen on screen due to their nature. But you can't just go call something canon because it's on wookiepedia (I assume it is anyway).

You're talking about G-canon. The EU is a different level of canon, but everything made up by official authors (Zahn, Luceno, LucasArts) are canon. Therefore everything on Wookieepedia (unless explicitly stated by a template) is canon.

[mandobardanjusik]

although, FOTG is very loose with anything other than movie canon, however generaly conflicting or incorrect views of a craft are ignored, and sometimes an original description will be taken over views from later books, or guide books. now any comments on the craft itself?

[mandobardanjusik]

You knkow what dragon, you just gave me an idea, so here is a slightly revised history of the Dagger, with something of a little retcon. The V-38A Dagger was a starfighter designed by Republic Sienar systems, and sold to mercany and other small military groups, and became quite popular, though afterwards, Sienar realized the potential, and stopped selling them prior to the clone wars, acquiring a stockpile, however they saw very little action during the war. after Order 66 Sienar systems proposed the Dagger for the new imperial fleet, however due to its size, cost and hyperdrive, it was ignored as a main fleetfighter, however it was still used in remote locations, and as a scout, for many years. when it was realized that the TIE fighter was ineffective against rebel fighters, the Dagger was evaulated, and used to help design the TIE interceptor, as it was used to design the basic TIE.  SFS also decided that an enlarged version with an improved verion of the Twin Ion Engine, could be used as a scout craft, and named it the V-38B, as it was mainly an enlarged version of the Dagger, and the design caught the eye of Grand admiral Batch who decided it would be perfect for his cloaking device(REF: TIE PHANTOM)

of course, this all depends on wheter or not its passed, and technicly the backstory isnt my job, and the final one is not up to me

[-Norbert-]

I certainly like the story, though again I'd also like to propose some small changes:

"The V-38A Dagger was a starfighter designed by Republic Sienar systems, sold in limited numbers to mercenaries and small military groups. With the changing political situation and the imminent clone wars, Sienar stopped selling the popular Dagger on the free market and instead build up a stockpile of the fighters in preparation of a major deal with the Republic. Since the negotiations were still ongoing during the war, only few Daggers, serving as combat evaluation models, saw action in service of the Republic fleet prior to Order 66.
With the massive changes that the restructuring of the Republic into the Galacic Empire brought, Sienar systems saw their chance and proposed the Dagger for the new imperial fleet, however due to it's size and cost (mostly due to the hyperdrive), it was ignored as a main fleetfighter, seeing service almost exclusively for scouting and patrolling of remote imperial holdings, though it was also used as a technology testbed, pioneering many systems later used to build the TIE fighter.
When it was realized that the TIE fighter was ineffective against rebel fighters, the Dagger was re-evaulated, and used to help design the TIE interceptor, just like it was used to design the basic TIE.  SFS also decided that an enlarged version with improved Twin Ion Engines, could be used as a dedicated scout craft, and named it the V-38B, as it was mainly an enlarged version of the Dagger.
The design also caught the eye of Grand Admiral Batch, who decided it would be perfect for his cloaking device(REF: TIE PHANTOM)"

[mandobardanjusik]

That sounds great to me Norbert, thanks for cleaning it up, now the question just is, what does th important members of the team think

[swashmebuckle]

If the model ends up meeting Brand's standards, making a fitting tech entry won't be a problem.  The actual question is: can you finish a model?

[mandobardanjusik]

Hi you guys, here is the base color of the dagger, for the imperial version, it is mainly a couple shades of grey, and a lot of normal mapping related stuff. the rebel version on the other hand is very worn down, has a base whiteish color like the x-wing, however with marking stripes and symbols of varying colors, and several faded overlaping symbols, and a lot of blastmarks

[mandobardanjusik]

ok, say hello to the rebel version of the dagger. both need a lot of depth map work will need a lot of work, and it goes to both, but they have individual colors. the Rebels have been hunting a down fighters, and an organization of righteous correllian mercs have brought with them several squadrons of dagger starfighters, and a pair of correllian corvettes. these daggers were bought second hand, and were done in green and white, when brought over to the alliance, most of the green paint was removed quickly, but some older red paint was revealed, and the newer blue paint was paritialy applied(I think I might add a bit more green). and there are several overlapping fading symbols(not on there yet). The ships hulls are decently maintained, however there is plently of wear, however the correlians, and other pilots have upgraded and improved their engines, to the point where they are even faster than before. it is one of the fastest ships used by the rebellion, and its earliest interceptor, but is not overly agile. also a visible difference is that the revel bersion has an orange engine afterburner, while the imperial has yellow.
[pictures removed due to current realvency  by poster]

[Dragon]

Could you make a separate version with green, red and blue texture?
Or even better, a version adapted to use with team colors (check the SCP board to see how to do it).

[mandobardanjusik]

sorry dragon, I cant really do team colors, for 2 reasons. 1) it is still beyond my ability, 2) I am not the biggest fan, as I have used em before in another engine.
however, color variations are not out of the question, though what colors, are up to me(I might throw in an orange one too)

[newman]

Hey, it's the TIE Pride

[mandobardanjusik]

? it only has 3 colors, its supposed to look like its had a lot of owners. and its not a tie