[Su-tehp]

Most of you know of the FREDZone Fleet Organization document I pulled out of my ass years ago. While (I like to believe) my ass remains nearly as supple and well-formed nearly these 16 years later, I must in good conscience refrain from engaging in any additional instances of posterior expulsion with this matter of fleet organization.

Basically, I'm asking which star systems in Freespace belonged to Terran territory and which to Vasudan territory as of both 2321 (when the T-V War began) and 2335 (when the T-V War formally ended with the alliance against the Shivans) and whether or not any systems might have changed hands. Granted, this discussion is a matter of pure speculation and can't be considered canon in any case. I also realize that this discussion is complicated by the supposition on my part that FS1 briefings hint that jump nodes weren't originally conceived by V as two-way tunnels, but could be used to jump to any jump node "in range." I base this on Admiral Wolf (Don't ask me why Admiral Wolf's nametag says "Polpolion" because I honestly don't know.) in the Command Briefing cutscene from FS1 talking about the capture of the Taranis. Note where he says around 0:40 that "we don't know where [the Taranis] will jump to, but there is only one jump node out of Ikeya and we intend to blockade it." This seems to imply that the Ikeya jump node could lead to other destinations besides Ribos in spite of what the FS1 and FS2 jump node maps would indicate.

And while I haven't played through it yet, I recall a mention in Scroll of Antankharzim's first command briefing of Beta Cygni, Betelgeuse, Ribos and Ikeya as systems that were "returned to" Vasudan control through the GTVA treaty structure" (presumably the BETAC treaty?), and wile this isn't Volition canon, I do like the idea of systems changing hands throughout the T-V War.

Anyhoo, here is the list of fleet organization as I've currently written it (I cut out Sol as the Terran 1st Fleet base because obviously with Sol separated from the rest of T-V space, it no longer makes sense for the 1st Fleet to be based there. Also, this list is subject to change, pending suggestions/comments from posters. Note: Any notations with (CONFIRMED) in it means it has a canon reference in FS2. If you find another that isn't mentioned here, feel free to post its reference here.

Fleets of Freespace (non-canon)
Terran Fleets (as of 2367)
1st Fleet: Based at Delta Serpentis (the Terran capital since contact with Earth was lost)
2nd Fleet: Based at Beta Aquilae (this system is the capital of the entire GTVA)
3rd Fleet (CONFIRMED): Based at Capella
4th Fleet (CONFIRMED): Based at Vega
5th Fleet: Based at Ross 128
6th Fleet (CONFIRMED): Based at Epsilon Pegasi
7th Fleet: Based at Polaris
8th Fleet: Based at Regulus
9th Fleet: Based at Sirius
10th Fleet: Based at Laramis
11th Fleet: Based at Luyten 726-8
12th Fleet (CONFIRMED): Based at Wolf 359
13th Fleet: Based at Barnard’s Star

Vasudan Battle Groups
1st Battle Group: Aldebaran (it's the Vasudan capital since Vasuda Prime was obliterated)
2nd Battle Group: Vasuda (I considered taking Vasuda off this list, but I recall references to Vasuda Prime shipyards after the planet was glassed by the Lucifer so it makes sense for the Vasudans to want to protect this system)
3rd Battle Group: Altair
4th Battle Group: Ikeya
5th Battle Group: Ribos
6th Battle Group: Adhara
7th Battle Group: Antares
8th Battle Group: Beta Cygni
9th Battle Group: Betelgeuse
10th Battle Group: Procyon
11th Battle Group: Alpha Centauri
12th Battle Group: Barnard's Star
13th Battle Group: Deneb

Remember, this is presently a work-in-progress (WIP), so changes are likely pending.

Thoughts?

[Goober5000]

I wouldn't change the 1st Fleet designation.  I like your original rationale:

The Terrans in the GTVA military are no doubt hoping that the 1st Fleet still exists and will rejoin the GTVA once contact is restored. This is why Earth still has the 1st Fleet based there; it's also a morale issue. Acknowledging the loss of the 1st Fleet (the cream of the crop of the Terran military) would be a huge blow to morale, so it's fleet designation was never changed. (This is ALL guesswork here, but I think it's a good guess.)

Reserving the 1st Fleet designation for Sol makes sense, is symbolic, and is good policy.

[Nightmare]

I wouldn't change the 1st Fleet designation.  I like your original rationale:

The Terrans in the GTVA military are no doubt hoping that the 1st Fleet still exists and will rejoin the GTVA once contact is restored. This is why Earth still has the 1st Fleet based there; it's also a morale issue. Acknowledging the loss of the 1st Fleet (the cream of the crop of the Terran military) would be a huge blow to morale, so it's fleet designation was never changed. (This is ALL guesswork here, but I think it's a good guess.)

Reserving the 1st Fleet designation for Sol makes sense, is symbolic, and is good policy.

The same probably counts for Vasuda too.

[Su-tehp]

So keep the Terran 1st Fleet at Sol as a "ghost designation" for morale purposes (since it doesn't actually exist except on paper), and assign the Vasudan 1st Battlegroup to Vasuda Prime to both protect the Vasuda shipyards and for morale purposes. Ok, all that makes sense.

(Now I have to double-check and see if the proper word order is "Terran 1st Fleet/ Vasudan 1st Battlegroup" or "1st Terran Fleet/1st Vasudan Battlegroup" by seeing if there are any canon references to either option. Ugh.)

Other thoughts?

[Nightmare]

Is the 13th Battle Group in Deneb confirmed or headcanon?

[Goober5000]

The same probably counts for Vasuda too.

I disagree here.  There is a significant difference in species' priorites following FS1.  Terrans have developed a strong desire to return to Earth; it's part of their cultural identity and even influenced the motivation of the NTF.  By contrast, the new Vasudan homeworld is in Aldebaran (by word of Volition) and the Vasudans appear to have no overriding desire to rebuild Vasuda.  Furthermore, Vasudans are much more comfortable being dispersed through various systems due to the need to collect resources which were historically scarce on Vasuda.  All of this is known from canon sources.

So while it makes sense for a phantom Terran 1st Fleet to be based in Sol, it also makes sense for the 1st Vasudan Battlegroup to be (post-FS1) based in Aldebaran.  It appears that the Vasudans are comfortable leaving Vasuda to history and making the cultural transition to Aldebaran.

Is the 13th Battle Group in Deneb confirmed or headcanon?

It's confirmed.  In fact, it's in the first campaign mission command briefing:

Allied Command has ordered the Aquitaine into the Deneb system. There we will reinforce the 13th Vasudan Battle Group, led by the GVD Psamtik.

[Su-tehp]

Is the 13th Battle Group in Deneb confirmed or headcanon?

I want to say it's confirmed because I vaguely recall several mentions of the 13th Battle Group at Deneb, but since I didn't write "CONFIRMED" in any of my notes for the 13th, then I have to say it's headcanon. However, that being said, there is circumstantial evidence for the 13th to be based in Deneb, judging by briefing texts in FS2:


1) In Command Briefing 4 of "Surrender, Belisarius!," Admiral Petrarch says: "Allied Command has ordered the Aquitaine into the Deneb system. There we will reinforce the 13th Vasudan Battle Group, led by the GVD Psamtik." Deneb is more-than-likely a Vasudan system since a) it's only a single jump from Vasuda Prime and b) the Deneb system was directly targeted by Bosch as a system containing dig sites of Ancient ruins that Bosch needed to find and activate the Knossos portal and that he needed to militarily conquer with the NTF's fleet in order to get access to those dig sites. If Deneb is indeed a Vasudan system (as we can safely assume), then it would need to be defended by a Vasudan battlegroup. Petrarch's mention of the 13th Battle Group needing reinforcement would lend credence to the notion that the 13th was indeed the battle group assigned to Deneb.

2) In Mission Briefing 1 of "...But Hate the Traitor," the third SOC mission of the first SOC loop, Lt. Cmdr. Niven mentions the 11th and 13th Battle Groups advancing into Sirius. I presumed that since the 13th was coming from Deneb and since the only other jump nodes in Sirius lead to Regulus (still firmly held NTF territory at this point) or to Alpha Centauri then the 11th Battle Group came from Alpha Centauri.

Maybe it's too much to say "CONFIRMED" that the 13 Battle Group is based at Deneb and the 11th is based at Alpha Centauri, but I'd consider it enough to be more than just my own headcanon. All things considered, if it were up to me, I'd relegate the 13th Battle Group = Deneb and the 11th Battle Group = Alpha Centauri to be canon, but that might not meet HLP's canon standards since it's not a specific mention. *shrug*

[Su-tehp]

The same probably counts for Vasuda too.

I disagree here.  There is a significant difference in species' priorites following FS1.  Terrans have developed a strong desire to return to Earth; it's part of their cultural identity and even influenced the motivation of the NTF.  By contrast, the new Vasudan homeworld is in Aldebaran (by word of Volition) and the Vasudans appear to have no overriding desire to rebuild Vasuda.  Furthermore, Vasudans are much more comfortable being dispersed through various systems due to the need to collect resources which were historically scarce on Vasuda.  All of this is known from canon sources.

So while it makes sense for a phantom Terran 1st Fleet to be based in Sol, it also makes sense for the 1st Vasudan Battlegroup to be (post-FS1) based in Aldebaran.  It appears that the Vasudans are comfortable leaving Vasuda to history and making the cultural transition to Aldebaran.

Hmm, I recall some of this too. It's worth considering. Vasuda Prime certainly needs a battle group to protect the shipyards there, but as Goober says, it need not be the 1st Battle Group.

One other thing I've noticed: according to the Briefing Texts transcripts on HLP, "battle group" is always two words and never one (e.g. "battlegroup"). That's something to keep in mind.

Second thing I just noticed from the transcripts: In all the Vasudan missions, the debriefing text for leaving the mission early has the Vasudan officer who informs you that youre being turned over to Terran authorities for desertion always refering to the Terran 3rd Fleet as the "Terran 3rd Battle Group." Interesting...this is obviously a Volition editing error/ inconsistency, but could we use headcannon to chalk it up as a Vasudan translation convention?

Third thing I just noticed: what the hell was I thinking when I made Barnard's Star (a star system so far from Vasudan space) a Vasudan system?

[Nightmare]

The same probably counts for Vasuda too.

I disagree here.  There is a significant difference in species' priorites following FS1.  Terrans have developed a strong desire to return to Earth; it's part of their cultural identity and even influenced the motivation of the NTF.  By contrast, the new Vasudan homeworld is in Aldebaran (by word of Volition) and the Vasudans appear to have no overriding desire to rebuild Vasuda.  Furthermore, Vasudans are much more comfortable being dispersed through various systems due to the need to collect resources which were historically scarce on Vasuda.  All of this is known from canon sources.

So while it makes sense for a phantom Terran 1st Fleet to be based in Sol, it also makes sense for the 1st Vasudan Battlegroup to be (post-FS1) based in Aldebaran.  It appears that the Vasudans are comfortable leaving Vasuda to history and making the cultural transition to Aldebaran.

Is there any source for that? I know that Aldebaran is the new capital, but IIRC FS2 doesn't mention Vasuda Prime, aside that it was the Vasudan homeworld, and that it has been destroyed. I could imagine that rebuilding it might come to mind for some Zods, just that they have higher priorities (building Colossus, etc).

[Goober5000]

Here are the sources:

https://web.archive.org/web/20020111040744/http://archives.volitionwatch.com/fs1/review/display.php3?MissID=117

a Volition employee has already stated that the new Vasudan homeworld will be on Aldeberran.

species.tbl in FS1

Vasudan space exploration has been driven primarily by the need to find planets capable of sustaining their species.  As resources on Vasuda Prime have diminished, the drive to colonize has intensified among Vasudans in recent decades.

FS Reference Bible

Vasudans have, of course, always excelled at excavation and the efficient use and transport of resources.  It’s also been speculated that Vasudans were originally forced prematurely into space in order to gain the resources needed for their species’ survival.

And FS2 makes a big deal over returning to Earth, but assigns no weight to the Vasudans rebuilding Vasuda.

All of that is canon.  The sentence which begins "It appears" is my interpretation from those sources. 

[Nightmare]

Interesting find. However, unless the Vasudans are particular excited over Aldebaran they probably would pass the honor of the "1st fleet" to the system that served as their homeworld and where 4 billion of them died.

Rebuilding a completely destroyed system probably takes more (in fact, probably much, much more) effort than building something like the Colossus, so I doubt any rational Vasudan would consider this a priority, even if they really liked the idea.

However, it seems the Zods haven't forgotten about it entirely (GVF Tauret tech desc):

Its unusual configuration was inspired by the Apsu-Hek, a creature that once inhabited the deserts of Vasuda Prime. The Apsu-Hek has become an emblem of the Vasudan diaspora, and the Tauret continues the tradition of symbolic design.

[Goober5000]

Interesting find. However, unless the Vasudans are particular excited over Aldebaran they probably would pass the honor of the "1st fleet" to the system that served as their homeworld and where 4 billion of them died.

That is a matter of fanon, since the games say nothing either way.

From the perspective of Scroll of Atankharzim, that is a Terran way of thinking.  The Vasudans assign historical importance to Vasuda, but culturally they are comfortable with being spread across multiple systems; and from an organizational perspective it makes sense to have the 1st Battlegroup in the same system as the seat of government.