Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: DIO on May 03, 2009, 01:55:06 am
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To my knowledge, it seems that the war started rather accidentally, and both sides initially seemed to think that the war would be over quickly, but the war entered into a stalemate with neither side gaining clear advantage, and it dragged on for years.
But what I don't understand is what exactly were GTA and PVE's objective for this war?
Was it simple as advancing to Earth/Vasuda Prime and subjugating their enemy? What were their governments trying to gain from it?
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[mobius]Regional security and taking control of important systems, full of resources.
After the first carnages, however, the main objective surely become exterminating the enemy. It's the classic "We don't remember how it started, all we know is that we must revenge our fellow comrades died because of them!".[/mobius]
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It seemed that the T-V war started as a fight over a dispute (which probably could have been resolved without a war) but then turned into a meaningless slaughter. Which might have lasted another several decades. Both races could have been destroyed...but thankfully (in an odd sort of way) the Shivans came...
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If the Shivans hadn't come, I think the war would have continued on for a bit longer, and then a peaceful resolution would come when both sides had completely exhausted their war machines. A few years later, it would've started again...
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[mobius]When the Shivans come both the GTA and the PVE were on the verge of internal collapse, so that sounds plausible.[/mobius]
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I don't think that the winning faction would exterminate the one that lost. There were vasudan agents in the GTA, as well as terran agents in the PVE, and etc.
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The objective of this war was just to get the control over the systems the factions had a knowledge about. (I hope I can say that this way :rolleyes: )
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I think it was similar to historical wars. The objective of the GTA was to capture Vasuda Prime, and the PVN's objective was to take Earth.
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[mobius]Saying that their objective was capturing the opposing species' homeworld is too much of a simplification. Doing that wouldn't have ended the war, just as sure as bombarding Vasuda Prime did not prevent the Vasudans from retaliating during the Great War.[/mobius]
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Saying that their objective was capturing the opposing species' homeworld is too much of a simplification. Doing that wouldn't have ended the war, just as sure as bombarding Vasuda Prime did not prevent the Vasudans from retaliating during the Great War.
It might not have ended the war, but strategically I believe that's the GTA's goal. Taking the capital of the PVN would certainly be a serious blow to the Vasudans.
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Occupying Vasudan/Terran space would be the goal, I suppose. Like it was done in WW2.
Or the GTA could have dropped 2 Meson bombs ( once they research them ) on Vasushima and Nagasuda and then occupied the Vasudan homeworld.
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[mobius]It wasn't that easy. It's not that easy to discuss it, either.
Striking or worse, taking control of the enemy's homeworld means suffering heavy losses. Risking to get most of your force blown off only to achieve a goal that might have ended the war is a bit pointless, isn't it?[/mobius]
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I'm not saying it would be easy...
Besides, you'd first make sure that you'd get as little resistance as possible, until there's nearly none.
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The entire war was pointless.
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Well, see, the GTA's flag was on Earth, and the Vasudan flag was on Vasuda Prime, and you only get a point if you bring their flag back to your base, soooo...
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Also, wasn't Sol the terran's major industrial center? Taking that out to hurt the terran's warfighting capability would be pretty high on the PVEs list of desirable achivements, I imagine. I guess the same holds true for Vasuda Prime.
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I'm not saying it would be easy...
Besides, you'd first make sure that you'd get as little resistance as possible, until there's nearly none.
[mobius]And means defeating the whole PVN. In other words, there's no difference between taking over Vasuda Prime as an attempt to achieve a decisive victory and crushing the whole PVN to win the war.[/mobius]
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I don't think there were objectives the way we think of them in a modern sense, like the objective of the Afghanistan war was to get Osama and prevent Afghanistan from being a terrorist haven. I think it was more like the american wars against the Indian nations - humans were expanding into space, and had encountered an agressive inhabitant. It wasn't safe to move around in space, so we had to eliminate the Vasudans ability to threaten us. So the broad objective would have been "Make space safe for human travel, colonization etc.". This might have been achieved through a number of different means, the most logical being space-denial to the Vasudans - get into V Prime, scrap their orbital and planetary defence capabilitys and set up a military cordon to prevent them launching any dangerous vessels, effectively ending their ability to make war. If they had other facilities in other systems, you do the same to them.
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The entire war was pointless.
Name one war that isn't.
The war started because of the Terran's being completely unaware of the importance of the 'conversation'. The Vasudans got pissed, and all negotiations broke down. Frankly, I think the Vasudans are pricks for being so instantly offended. It's like finding an acorn on the ground in the woods, leaving it, then getting angry because you see a squirrel running off with it the next day.
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I don't think there were objectives the way we think of them in a modern sense, like the objective of the Afghanistan war was to get Osama and prevent Afghanistan from being a terrorist haven. I think it was more like the american wars against the Indian nations - humans were expanding into space, and had encountered an agressive inhabitant. It wasn't safe to move around in space, so we had to eliminate the Vasudans ability to threaten us. So the broad objective would have been "Make space safe for human travel, colonization etc.". This might have been achieved through a number of different means, the most logical being space-denial to the Vasudans - get into V Prime, scrap their orbital and planetary defence capabilitys and set up a military cordon to prevent them launching any dangerous vessels, effectively ending their ability to make war. If they had other facilities in other systems, you do the same to them.
This.
Additionally, with Vasudans feeling the same way in return regarding Humans. Also note, despite whatever the tech room briefings or whatnot say, wars are rarely if ever started "accidentally." You don't have a friend that you get into an argument with one day, call him a ****wit in the heat of anger, and then pull out guns and start shooting each other. It's a process of escalation and calculation. As it states in the FSRef. Bible, most details were kept vague for a variety of reasons: Prequels, possible book deals or fictional pieces, fanboy enthusiasm...
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The war started because of the Terran's being completely unaware of the importance of the 'conversation'. The Vasudans got pissed, and all negotiations broke down. Frankly, I think the Vasudans are pricks for being so instantly offended. It's like finding an acorn on the ground in the woods, leaving it, then getting angry because you see a squirrel running off with it the next day.
Yeah. And World War 1 was entirely Gavrilo Princip's fault.
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Or the GTA could have dropped 2 Meson bombs ( once they research them ) on Vasushima and Nagasuda and then occupied the Vasudan homeworld.
Despite myself, I lol'd.
At the outset of the war, I agree that each side's primary goal was presumably military subjugation, if not complete territorial capture, of the other. The Terrans certainly wanted to be able to continue their expansion unhindered, and I'm sure the Vasudans felt similarly. Capturing the other side's home system would have certainly been a huge blow both strategically and psychologically, though because of their somewhat-decentralized industrial setup, I feel like the Vasudans would feel the loss of Vasuda Prime far less than the Terrans would of Sol (which the reconstruction era kind of bears out). After fourteen years, though, I feel like the higher-ups on both sides were probably looking for some way to come to a mutual end of hostilities more than anything else, given the immense drain of resources and morale that the war caused.
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The war started because of the Terran's being completely unaware of the importance of the 'conversation'. The Vasudans got pissed, and all negotiations broke down. Frankly, I think the Vasudans are pricks for being so instantly offended. It's like finding an acorn on the ground in the woods, leaving it, then getting angry because you see a squirrel running off with it the next day.
Yeah. And World War 1 was entirely Gavrilo Princip's fault.
Huh?
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Saying that the war was entirely caused by the misunderstanding/offense caused by the Conversation is as naive as saying there was only 1 cause for WW1.
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At least I know in the future we're still a barbaric race that'll slaughter an enemy at the risk of our own.
"Why are we fighting again?"
"I unno, tradition"
"Oh ok"
"Headz!"
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Seeing my generation, it seems from my viewpoint that it's "I'm bored, lets kill stuff then talk about it on our cell phones while we pop the caps off some beer and caugh syrup"
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Oh, please! Some of us are more civilized than that. We pop the corks out of wine bottles and cough syrup :D.
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I wonder how TVWP is going to handle this... ;7
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I think it's simply about space control and a war "because the other side is hostile".
Whether or not you have any real objections, if the other side is shooting you shoot back. When both sides have that mentality a war ensues. The objective, simply put for both sides, was to get the shooting to stop on your terms. Neither wanted to proposition a peace, because in a cynical childlike manner, you've admitted defeat.
Broad objectives were defined; capture the enemy capital, kill as many as possible, take control over territory, etc. These "objectives" were just ideas that the Terrans and Vasudans thought would end the war. When your ultimate objective is just to stop the war on your terms, there's no real "territorial" objective that will win. Capturing a major planet's industry (like Earth) would certainly help your case, but there's no guarantee.
Reminds me of some parts of the First World War really (prior to the entrance of the US)...Both sides are fighting hard for the advantage so that when, eventually, both economies wear down YOUR army is just a tiny bit ahead and can dictate the terms of the peace.
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That sounds very reasonable. :yes:
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Note that despite the TVWP avatar I have, that isn't the official view of the project; just my personal one. I do think it's the most reasonable and "best for a story" one though.
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I think, by year 14, the purpose of the war wasn't really a matter for debate anymore. Both sides have thrown massive amounts of money and people into the conflict. Exhaustion is not setting in on the GTA's side. (Massive amounts of new equipment is about to enter service.) The Vasudans are towards the end of a fleetwide upgrade; they have deployed a new destroyer in recent memory, and a new bomber class. The Thoth is in the final stages of development.
The war has reached effective stalemate. Neither side has the means to win it at the moment. Both know this. They are still jockeying for posistion, hence Operation Thresher, but they are unwilling to risk their their core fleet units in an effort to attain victory. This is because while neither side has the ability to win, they are also aware that more wars are lost by the losers than won by the winners.
At this point the war goes on because nobody has the means to make it stop. The GTA and PVE have been at each other's throats for nearly a decade and a half. This is an eternity in terms of technological warfare. No war in human history since the musket was invented is remotely comparable. Neither of the World Wars even made a decade. The only war of comparable length, Japan against China, is of no use because of the diseperate capablities of the sides.
The T-V War had become not just a way of life, but an embedded part of Terran and Vasudan culture. It could not be torn out. It could not be stopped. Neither government likely wanted it to continue at this point, being fully aware that they cannot win but can still lose, but they could not simply declare peace because this is something that people have grown up with. Nobody even remembers what peace is anymore. It is no longer a means to an end, it is the end. The war was beyond the ability of its makers to control.
The arrival of the Shivans was greatfully seized on as a means to end the war by both sides.
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The war started because of the Terran's being completely unaware of the importance of the 'conversation'. The Vasudans got pissed, and all negotiations broke down. Frankly, I think the Vasudans are pricks for being so instantly offended. It's like finding an acorn on the ground in the woods, leaving it, then getting angry because you see a squirrel running off with it the next day.
Yeah. And World War 1 was entirely Gavrilo Princip's fault.
[mobius]You're assuming that the Vasudans are pretty much like Terrans, and therefore don't start a war because of a misunderstanding.
The Vasudans couldn't imagine how long the war would have devastated T-V space - they wouldn't have started it, otherwise. Please note how the Vasudans were the ones who asked for a cease fire - what does it suggest?
Oh, no one expected World War One to be that dramatic, and Austria surely wouldn't have started it so easily.[/mobius]
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So you're really saying the T-V War was the Vasudan's fault?
I thought the entire point of FS1 was that it was neither species fault.
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Bear in mind that the Vasudans were, quite obviously, completely alien. I'd wouldn't rule out xenophobia as a factor for the war starting, on both sides.
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T-V war was waged because Vasudans thought Terrans have more cookies and vice versa. Then Terran leaders said something bad about Vasudan Emperor, so VE thought "Hmm, I shall get their cookies and make their leaders make pie for me". So he attacked, and Terrans said "No way! Cookies are ours!" Luckily, Shivans arrived without any pie-demands and started killing everything, so Terrans and Vasudans thought "Oh ****, pie isn't important now, if we can't live, we can't eat pie!"
That's the whole story. Everything shown in FS is just propaganda, duh!
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Mmm. Pie.
I don't know if I'd say that they were happy that the Shivans showed up. But oh well. It's an interesting topic. Highly plausible to say that both sides were trying to take out the other's homeworld. That's just what people do in war, they attach some arbitrary meaning to a location and assume the enemy will collapse the minute they take t. I.E. when the French invaded Russia in 1812 their big objective was Moscow and the mentality was "Oh we take Moscow we end the war blah blah blah". Which is silly but the point is it's not at all implausible that the Terrans' big goal in the T-V war was to take out Vasuda Prime.
That's one of the neatest things in the Freespace canon for me by the way. The whole notion of how important Earth is to the GTA, without Earth they have such a hard time during Reconstruction whereas the Vasudans are able to make a huge comeback.
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Capturing the other races home world would have destroyed their morale (effectively winning the war possibly) but the Germans and the English tried that approach in world war 2 by simply bombing each other capital cites (and others) to destroy each others moral...it didn't work. Even still whoever won the T-V war still lost...badly.
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I'm feeling extra rational, somewhat inspired, and a little pedantic this morning, so here we go,
I think it's simply about space control and a war "because the other side is hostile".
Whether or not you have any real objections, if the other side is shooting you shoot back. When both sides have that mentality a war ensues. The objective, simply put for both sides, was to get the shooting to stop on your terms. Neither wanted to proposition a peace, because in a cynical childlike manner, you've admitted defeat.
Broad objectives were defined; capture the enemy capital, kill as many as possible, take control over territory, etc. These "objectives" were just ideas that the Terrans and Vasudans thought would end the war. When your ultimate objective is just to stop the war on your terms, there's no real "territorial" objective that will win. Capturing a major planet's industry (like Earth) would certainly help your case, but there's no guarantee.
Reminds me of some parts of the First World War really (prior to the entrance of the US)...Both sides are fighting hard for the advantage so that when, eventually, both economies wear down YOUR army is just a tiny bit ahead and can dictate the terms of the peace.
Just to clarify:
In scientific terms, we define their dyadic dispute with audiences costs (domestic - the cost they incur in terms of approval ratings at home, for backing down during a war) and rewards (what each side gains from forcing each other to capitulate, obtaining specific objectives during the war, etc.) The thing about most wars is that they go from being arguments to military conflicts because each side isn't exactly sure what the limits of the other is. War is usually a last resort as war is ****ing costly, in lives and resources. Wars usually end when a side drives up the cost of the war higher than the cost of peace.
Also note that while war starts as a failure to come to an agreement, war doesn't terminate all communication. I'm pretty sure I remember reading in the reference bible that the two sides had had diplomatic talks but they were inconclusive. Meaning, diplomats still try to figure out how to come to a compromise, but neither side is willing to pay the domestic / audience costs for what they'd get - what they'd receive in a truce is too little for how much **** they'd get at home. There are plenty of politics behind the scenario that probably weren't inserted into the universe because of time constraints in production, yet more likely because reading political babble would bore people to death when all they want to do is play a game where they can shoot things in space.
I brought this up mainly because you implied that carrying on war, or not coming to a peace agreement is child-like. There's a perfectly rational reason for why a war like this could carry on for so long. So long as you consider mass destruction and the death of thousands of people rational if used to satisfy a society's needs, it checks out scientifically. Note, rational doesn't mean moral or appropriate.
Another point of clarification: What I said about each side in the T-V war being uncertain of each other's capabilities and limits checks out specifically when the Shivans enter into the conflict. At this point, after observing that the Shivans are vastly superior, out for blood, and don't prefer any one side over the other, the domestic costs for peace between the Humans and Vasudans were then lower than the cost of total annihilation, which is why they came to a truce and subsequent alliance. Again, pretty obvious.
The war started because of the Terran's being completely unaware of the importance of the 'conversation'. The Vasudans got pissed, and all negotiations broke down. Frankly, I think the Vasudans are pricks for being so instantly offended. It's like finding an acorn on the ground in the woods, leaving it, then getting angry because you see a squirrel running off with it the next day.
Yeah. And World War 1 was entirely Gavrilo Princip's fault.
[mobius]You're assuming that the Vasudans are pretty much like Terrans, and therefore don't start a war because of a misunderstanding.
The Vasudans couldn't imagine how long the war would have devastated T-V space - they wouldn't have started it, otherwise. Please note how the Vasudans were the ones who asked for a cease fire - what does it suggest?
Oh, no one expected World War One to be that dramatic, and Austria surely wouldn't have started it so easily.[/mobius]
But the Vasudans are pretty much like the Terrans. They just live in the desert, eat funny things, and speak a confusing-ass language from the back of their throats. Actually, that sounds kind of familiar... GG Volition with precognitive abilities. Seriously though, it states in the reference bible that they're really not supposed to be that dissimilar from another. Without looking it up myself, I believe it was something to the effect of the two sharing very similar origin stories. This is a story of human conflict: a war between humans and a race of people who while being from somewhere else, and looking a little different, also act like humans.
Bear in mind that the Vasudans were, quite obviously, completely alien. I'd wouldn't rule out xenophobia as a factor for the war starting, on both sides.
Wrong. See above. "Completely alien" would be a good way to describe the Shivans. Or Starfish. Or that black **** in Spiderman 3 that becomes Venom. Vasudans are about as alien as Cairo, which I guess is a slight matter of perspective, but only really to the ignorant.
I don't know if I'd say that they were happy that the Shivans showed up. But oh well. It's an interesting topic. Highly plausible to say that both sides were trying to take out the other's homeworld. That's just what people do in war, they attach some arbitrary meaning to a location and assume the enemy will collapse the minute they take t. I.E. when the French invaded Russia in 1812 their big objective was Moscow and the mentality was "Oh we take Moscow we end the war blah blah blah". Which is silly but the point is it's not at all implausible that the Terrans' big goal in the T-V war was to take out Vasuda Prime.
That's one of the neatest things in the Freespace canon for me by the way. The whole notion of how important Earth is to the GTA, without Earth they have such a hard time during Reconstruction whereas the Vasudans are able to make a huge comeback.
Again, the "capitals" of Earth and Vasuda come attached with not only physical value (industrial capability, food, supplies, other potential spoils of war) they also tend to be the seats of ruling governments. Obviously, if you can control a state's capital (and thus its ruling government) you can eliminate their opposition leadership to you and force them to capitulate to your demands. If you're all up in their population's business, killing and raping and pillaging, like one usually is when they're at someone's capital if things don't go how the invader likes, then the costs of war begin to far exceed the domestic costs of peace.
This is why Napoleon invaded Moscow. He only failed because he was in such a rush to get there, and the Russians didn't play rationally - they burned their own **** down to the ground to deny Napoleon any gains. Then again, maybe the Russians acted super-rationally.
The interesting thing about the Vasudans is that they were said to have had extra-effecient methods of logistics and organization (somehow attributed to their being a desert-dwelling, possibly nomadic society) which helped them survive the destruction of Vasuda Prime. Though this is sort of contrasted by the fact that they have a parliament and a dynastic monarchy for leadership, which are incredibly centralized.
Capturing the other races home world would have destroyed their morale (effectively winning the war possibly) but the Germans and the English tried that approach in world war 2 by simply bombing each other capital cites (and others) to destroy each others moral...it didn't work. Even still whoever won the T-V war still lost...badly.
You're right, kind of. I'd point you to Hiroshima and Nagasaki though, which worked out pretty well (in terms of conflict resolution.) I think in the case of the English and Germans, bombing capital's didn't stop the war because they didn't bomb enough. I'm not going to say London was a safe place to be in 1942, but it also wasn't burned to the ground. Neither was Berlin. Dresden on the other hand...
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Snip
I agree with just about all of this. I've always thought of the war as gradually ramping up in severity until it reaches the point we see in FS1. Early on, the "war" wasn't so much a war as a sequence of sparing battles spread out over a large scale region. They were feeling each other out, testing the waters. After a few years (around the time of Gulnara), the Terrans figured they could take the Vasudans out and dumped everything into them. Then the Vasudans fought back outright and the war started down the path to what we know.
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I think the entire war basically occurred in smaller battles (and by smaller I mean not half the armed forces committed to one single operation) . At the most, there would be one fleet from each side, two at a stretch on the defending side (if it was GTA attacking, say, Vasuda Prime) in any given battle. Had the entirety of their forces been committed, both sides would have lost most of their military power. The war would have been over because nobody would have been left with the ability to fight.
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Either that, or we are vastly underestimating the warfighting and producing capacity of the GTA and PVE. On an order of magnitudes.
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Eithere than,
What? :confused:
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Fixed. I apparently don't know how to move my index finger in the direction I want to.
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Oh. In that, case, yeah. And your idea is quite plausible, Scotty. We never do get any real idea of the manufacturing and production capabilities of the GTA and PVE. :v: never makes it clear, or even hints at it.
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Posted for posterity and those who are confused. More important parts are bolded or otherwise marked. From the Freespace Reference Bible ala Volition.
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The Vasudans had an advanced civilization, a fascinating history, and an evolved culture. They were similar to humans in many ways. Unfortunately, those similarities included irrational fear, and the willingness to sacrifice lives over politics. It didn’t take long for hostilities to break out, and for the first interplanetary war in history to begin.
AP 2/26: We’ve kept the specifics of the start of the T-V War purposefully vague. For future elaboration in add-on disks, sequels, and fiction like this.
What started out as a show of strength and technology degenerated into a war of attrition, with both sides suffering heavy losses. Terran and Vasudan ships skirmished in remote areas of space while the politicos flapped their gums on the news. After 14 years, both sides suffered terrible losses, and the end was nowhere in sight. Until…
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The Galactic Terran Alliance was formed many years before FreeSpace begins. It’s largely a defense and research organization, and has few domestic influences, focusing it’s attention on matters in outer space, and the exploration thereof. Terrans (aka Humans) are much the same as modern day humans. They share many of the same strengths, weaknesses, and prejudices. During the T-V War (later called the 14-Year War) Terrans have excelled (over Vasudans) in the area of mass manufacturing and weaponry.
Earth (sometimes half-jokingly called Terra by spacers) has naturally become the super-industrial hub of the GTA’s space empire. All central government functions take place on, or in orbit around Earth.
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Vasudans originate from the planet Vasuda Prime. Their anatomy is similar to humans in many respects. They’re bipedal, have two eyes and a mouth, and have nearly the same atmospheric & respiration needs. For a long time, their bony, sinewy limbs were a cause of revulsion for by the relatively soft-looking humans. The dry, arid climate of Vasuda Prime has given the Vasudans a brown, mottled, leathery skin.
Terran-Vasudan communication was relatively easy to establish, despite the fact that Vasudan vocal cords are unable to make the sounds needed to produce the English language (now refered to as “Terran Standard” by spacers). This requires the use of small translational devices during any T-V exchange. The speaker talks in a low tone near the “squawker” and it translates and speaks for the user in the desired language. Small earpieces allow the devices to relay the opposite translations to the user. While the squawkers work on both species, the Vasudans are typically the ones to wear the devices.
Human archeologists and geologists have often been amazed that Vasuda Prime was capable of producing an intelligent species like the Vasudans. The planet is nearly completely covered by wind-blown deserts and barren, rocky terrain. As a result, Vasudans live mostly in domed, sheltered, or underground cities. Vasudans have, of course, always excelled at excavation and the efficient use and transport of resources. It’s also been speculated that Vasudans were originally forced prematurely into space in order to gain the resources needed for their species’ survival. Vasudans also excel at general engineering and efficient, high-speed ship propulsion systems.
Despite the physical differences between humans and Vasudans, their mentalities evolved very similarly. They have strong family structures, and enjoy many similar social activities that Terrans do. Parts of their not-too-distant history are shrouded in much ancient mysticism, and preoccupation with legends. So much so that it’s been often rumored that the Vasudan Parliamentary government actively discourages any remnants of such mysticism and fanatical religion.
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Due to the fact that the Vasudans were the first sentient species that the Terrans encountered in space, the Terrans adopted a naming convention based on Zodiac signs and constellations for Vasudan ships.
Note the AP quote is from Adam Pletcher, the dude who wrote the story for Freespace.
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The Great War used to be the old name for the First World War, untill the second one came along...
Objectives are similar, conditions are similar (stalemate! Going over the top with your fighters (operation tresher comes to mind) etc.)
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Lets say the Vasudans captured Earth, destroyed its orbital fleet (this would still work for the terrans capturing Vasuda prime) they would have to land troops on the planet to capture and colonise it. But this is completely different to having a home town captured ITS YOUR HOME WORLD. Vasudans have done kamikaze they aren't going to give up because the terrans have destroyed their fleet (and they'll probably redirect their other fleets to Vasuda prime to "protect the motherland"). Terrans have endured wars by their own kind what do you think we'd do if it was an alien race trying to kick us out. The fact both races would fight till the last man (or women assuming the Vasudans have that or we have equal rights now). To truly put down a local resistance you would have to carpet bomb the surface of the planet with Harbingers (and the Vasudans equivalent). But terrans can't do this because of human rights, Law, The Geneva Conventions (although terrans may twist this to not include Vasudans), Also lately we haven't followed this so who knows what would have happened. But still if the Vasudas (or terrans) won i promise you there are no other race alive and your race would be almost wiped out. The shivans saved the terrans and the vasudans (in the most unusual way possible).
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The Great War used to be the old name for the First World War, untill the second one came along...
I'm pretty sure that "The Great War" refers to the TV War, not any Shivan Incursion, first or second.
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Actually, the Terran-Vasudan War is always referred to in-game as the 14-year war between Terrans and Vasudans. "The Great War" is always used to describe the events from the attack on Ross 128 and outpost Riviera, to the obliteration of the Shivan forces in Ikeya and Ross 128 after the destruction of the Lucifer.
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The Great War used to be the old name for the First World War, untill the second one came along...
Isn't World War II also called the Second World War? I've always felt that the name "Second Shivan Incursion" was derived from the other names given to WWII.
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Either that, or we are vastly underestimating the warfighting and producing capacity of the GTA and PVE. On an order of magnitudes.
Or four.
Consider how rapidly they were able to bring new technologies and weapons into service. The Avenger was ubiquitous not in months, but a week or two.
They weren't fighting this war, not really. Combat was ongoing, but it was almost just for show; the war has acquired a momentum all its own. It is an institution, the way things are, not a corruption of the norm.
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Vastly underestimating production would also account for a larger fleet and explain canon quirks like the Bahka (spelling?), with it's over 6000 produced.
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It was to kill everybody.
As FS2 Mulitplayer pilots used to say " Kill Red Dots."