[Aardwolf]

Where is the full list of forum rules? Is this sticky-thread "it", or is there some other document somewhere?

I am VERY annoyed that I had to ask this a third time.

[Scotty]

Where is the full list of forum rules? Is this sticky-thread "it", or is there some other document somewhere?

I am VERY annoyed that I had to ask this a third time.

There isn't one.  Go read the thread I posted in GenDisc, and you'll learn both why there isn't, and why there never will be.

You are very helpfully doing your level best to skirt your way around the guidelines in a way that maintains and adheres very strictly to the letter of the guidelines, but utterly tramples all over the intent behind them, and in doing so prove my point entirely.

The next time you try this it's going to be a pretty severe formal warning.

[Aardwolf]

But... I don't get it. Don't people have to read a list of rules and click an "I agree" checkbox in order to become members? What does it show them?

Even if the "guidelines are only guidelines" policy change is global... I can't be the only one who had trouble finding this page, and then didn't know for sure whether he was looking at the right document. Can we do something about that?

[Kopachris]

But... I don't get it. Don't people have to read a list of rules and click an "I agree" checkbox in order to become members? What does it show them?

No.  This is a privately owned and operated website.  Do you make houseguests read and agree to terms of service before you invite them in for dinner?

[Aardwolf]

Just about every forum I've ever registered on has had a rules page you have to read before you can become a member. Surely HLP has one. Or had?

Aside: prospective forum members are complete strangers; why would you be inviting a complete stranger to dinner? Or has the way new member registration works really changed that much since 2006?

[Scotty]

It's obvious what you're trying to do, Aardwolf.  You're looking for a codified version of the forum guidelines that you can quote and point fingers and say "this does not fit with this collection of words".  If you're capable of self-reflection at all, I implore you, realize that this is exactly the problem with the forum guidelines.  You're so hellbent on proving that you're right that you're totally subverting the idea of behaving like a decent individual.

Just stop.

[rev_posix]

Just about every forum I've ever registered on has had a rules page you have to read before you can become a member. Surely HLP has one. Or had?

Aside: prospective forum members are complete strangers; why would you be inviting a complete stranger to dinner? Or has the way new member registration works really changed that much since 2006?

From the registration form, which is followed with a large "I accept the terms of the agreement" button, before a nick and associated info is entered (emphasis mine):

You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, adult material, or otherwise in violation of any International or United States Federal law. You also agree not to post any copyrighted material unless you own the copyright or you have written consent from the owner of the copyrighted material. Spam, flooding, advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, and solicitations are also forbidden on this forum.

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While I deal with the back end more than anything, which is why I didn't really contribute much to the discussion when the referenced guidelines were being drafted, I do try to keep somewhat up to date with the community (call me Sir Lurks-a-lot).

Might I point at the rules for the penny-arcade forum for a comparison?

http://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/165388/the-rules

Specifically:

On Rules Lawyering

These rules are not complete and are not intended to be. These forums are privately owned and the administration reserves the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason at any time. The excuse “but there's no rule about it!” will never be accepted as an excuse for bad behaviour. It is expected that all users are intelligent and mature enough. While we strive to be fair in the moderation of these boards, said enforcement is subjective by its very nature. Please see the FAQ below for information on what to do if you feel you have been treated unfairly.

This, I believe, is what scotty is trying to get rid of.  From some of the discussions I have seen, this is one of the bigger issues that many have noted and have been 'bound' by, preventing them from taking action.

Also:

Users are expected to have a reasonable level of social intuition regarding what is and is not acceptable social behaviour, and you should avoid saying anything to someone on these forums that you would not be willing to say to them if they were a) standing in front of you b) considerably bigger than you and holding a club.

The decision on what is and is not considered Being A D*ck is determined by the mod staff. The defense “but I don't think I was being a d*ck” is not an acceptable one, nor is “but I didn't mean to be a d*ck”. Your message is what you communicate, not what you intend. That said, we understand that there is room for misunderstanding and interpretation in this rule and moderation staff will be open to polite and reasonable messages explaining why you do not feel an interpretation of this rule was fair.

Remember that we do not owe you an internet forum and that this forum is almost entirely run by volunteers.

Myself, I would suggest that those who are more involved in the community look at the linked URL and adopt as necessary.  The PA community forums are some of the most drama-free and welcoming to new users I've seen anywhere, even with the occasional very heated debate (go look up some of the threads on how to deal with the overwhelming demand for PAX Prime tickets).

Soctty is a global mod, and has taken it upon himself to do something on his own that he feels is necessary to improve things.  And so far, in all the notifications I've received on the thread (email notification BTW, I see it before it gets edited or otherwise folded, spindled, or removed) I've not seen one single mod or admin object to it.

You may as well get used to it, it seems that it's here to stay and probably be adopted by others.

[Aardwolf]

I see. Thank you.

[karajorma]

Myself, I would suggest that those who are more involved in the community look at the linked URL and adopt as necessary.  The PA community forums are some of the most drama-free and welcoming to new users I've seen anywhere, even with the occasional very heated debate (go look up some of the threads on how to deal with the overwhelming demand for PAX Prime tickets).

The PA guidelines were actually mentioned several times and used as the basis for the set of guidelines we have now actually.

The problem hasn't been the guidelines so much as the enforcement of them.

Basically we're putting everyone on notice that the kind of rules-lawyering bull**** that has been largely ignored in the past isn't going to fly.

[Akalabeth Angel]

Two questions:

1. Are there actual codes of conduct by which moderators exercise enforcement of the "guidelines" above.  And does it differ from the official guidelines?

2. Is there an actual legitimate appeals process for those actions?

This may be a private board, but it is also a community-funded board, as such I would expect that the responsibilities of those who run it would be made transparent for the benefit of all participating members.  If actions are taken which seem to fall outside the described guidelines, or if conversely action is not taken when the guidelines are seemingly violated, how does the membership know that the rules are being applied consistently?  One would think that as moderators/staff presumably have a responsibility to all forum goers, that it would be in their best interests to demonstrate that responsibility through a clear set of guidelines so as to garner the respect that would normally come with the position.  Previous discussions in this thread seem to indicate that the desired state is a loose set of guidelines which can be bent to or discarded when the situation warrants, rules which are deliberately not accountable.  However such an environment can only lead to inconsistent application of the rules and a deterioration of faith in the forum staff.

Though I certainly realize that all the staff are volunteers, I would also suggest that every person who contributes to the community both in money or time is likewise volunteering their times, so I would certainly advocate the the responsibilities of all and the limits to the rules can be enforced or appealed be made more clear and transparent.

[Goober5000]

1. Subject to the rules and guidelines, the moderators and admins have a certain amount of discretion in moderating the boards.

2. First, PM the staff member who instituted the action.  And be polite, don't hurl accusations.  Second, if you have exchanged several PMs and are not satisfied, PM another staff member.  Only if you have exchanged PMs with several staff members and the matter remains unresolved should you create a thread.  Generally this is bad etiquette (as it invites drama and mob response) unless something quite serious has occurred.

If you have a specific grievance, you should make a specific post about it.  Extrapolating from one incident to a general problem with the board is usually not warranted.  Despite several changes in both leadership and guidelines over the years, HLP tends to get along pretty well.

[Scotty]

And be polite, don't hurl accusations.

We're still working on this part.  He did PM me though!  And also demanded I stop moderating him or resign, because I was obviously being biased against him for taking action I warned him I'd be taking twice if the situation persisted.

However, Akalabeth, since you can't seem to take no for an answer privately: No, I will not unlock that thread, and no I will not resign because you feel personally offended that I took exception to your conduct.

[karajorma]

I hate Steam. Probably more than Akalabeth Angel as I have NEVER installed it on any of my PCs since I consider the entire concept of online DRM for games flawed and a complete and utter pain in the arse to deal with in practice given my ****ty net connection.

I also 100% back your decision to close that thread.

Anyone still want to debate bias?