Hard Light Productions Forums
Archived Boards => The Archive => Blackwater Operations => Topic started by: BlackDove on August 15, 2014, 01:27:09 pm
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Alright, there were several permutations of me writing this post, but I have decided to keep it as short and simple as possible.
BlackWater Operations has been somewhat inert during the past two years or so, as the hurdles regarding our unfinished assets are too steep for volunteers to overcome. This stems from the fact that many of our models never got past the design stage, yet were fixed in the design sense, meaning "all" that had to be done was create them from scratch, and put them into the game.
Some of the models have been finished throughout the inordinate amount of time this campaign has been in the making, however there are quite a few of them outstanding.
During all these years, since I took control of the project, I had hoped that slowly but steadily we would be able to reach the finish line, as brave volunteers with the required skills would slowly edge the work out. But, that was obviously too optimistic, and the reason is simple: the work that needs to be done for this project is too time intensive and requires a significant level of expertise, something that is more akin to having a job than doing it as a hobby. The problem is that technical specifications and the 40 odd missions we have are largely complete by design, and the key remaining obstacle are the assets required to populate those missions, ultimately leading to the missions being updated to work with the new assets. The work revolving around the missions is difficult as well, as they are by no means fully complete, however the first thing that needs to be tackled are the actual assets.
Given the fact that the undertaking required for finishing our assets is that many of them have yet to be started, it was always obvious to me that this kind of work is one that should be paid. After all, the video game industry is a multi billion dollar one, where people get paid to produce art assets in the same sense that we would need them for our project.
For this reason, I will be putting up $500 out of my own pocket and through HLP's PayPal for maximum transparency, in order to at least start this process. Whether or not that is enough will be for the individuals with the requisite skills in the community to decide. Ideally, I would prefer for one skilled individual proficient enough with all of the required skills in taking a model from the design stage to the playable stage, to take up the commission and essentially earn $500 by themselves.
Failing that easy scenario, the more pragmatic solution is to divide the money on a per-ship basis of the ones we need completed, and give the opportunity to multiple takers in earning some money through their artistic endeavors.
As of right now, we have sixteen models that are in various stages of development. Of those sixteen, three have not been started yet, with additional four that have models as a work in progress. The rest require work with either textures, LOD's, debris, conversion, and the like. Given that some of these are fighters and bombers, being smaller, and others are capital ships, obviously the work required for completing them is not the same. The money will be distributed proportionately between the models that need to be worked on, with the more challenging ones yielding more money for the artist taking the work on.
So, if you are interested, please contact Raven2001 (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=206), and have a conversation with him regarding your skill set, and what you would be willing to do. He will be able to provide you with more detail with the work that needs doing. After you have contacted him, and come to an agreement on which of the models you want to take on, then you can contact me to discuss payment for the work that you have chosen to produce.
We will favor those applicants that can take larger amounts of work on at once, with the ability to complete the work quickly. As written above, ideally one or two people would do the whole thing, and make out with a larger purse in the end, however everyone with the requisite skill set is required, regardless of how much you want to take on. If you want to do one model and get paid for it, that is great too.
We hope to hear from you. :)
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It's a genuine shame that nobody had stepped forward to help for free beforehand.
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Please, do step up this time, people. :) It's our last shot at finishing this. If we won't make it now, BWO is dead, so step up, people!
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It might help if you guys gave a general indicator on what level of quality you are looking for with models and textures.
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I wish I would be able to help but unfortunately I have no modelling nor texturing skills of any kind, I wish you luck in your endeavors of finding people qualified for your models.
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It might help if you guys gave a general indicator on what level of quality you are looking for with models and textures.
Spoon is right on that account... the last update to your page was in 2010, and the screenshots on that page seem to be even older than that (also getting 404's on parts of the gallery), which isn't very indicative of what you are aiming for today
The other thing I'd like to mention is that it might help if people would know from the get-go how you are dealing with Intellectual Property; HLP veterans like myself know about the community-wide gentlemen's agreement to go with a Creative Commons Licence but to someone directed here it might not be readily appearant.
That said I'm going to see if I can drum up someone with the skillset you need. I know a few people who do but they all work in the games industry and are gainfully employed (at least last time I checked).
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Well that certainly is a motivator. PM Sent.
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It might help if you guys gave a general indicator on what level of quality you are looking for with models and textures.
Spoon is right on that account... the last update to your page was in 2010, and the screenshots on that page seem to be even older than that (also getting 404's on parts of the gallery), which isn't very indicative of what you are aiming for today
The other thing I'd like to mention is that it might help if people would know from the get-go how you are dealing with Intellectual Property; HLP veterans like myself know about the community-wide gentlemen's agreement to go with a Creative Commons Licence but to someone directed here it might not be readily appearant.
That said I'm going to see if I can drum up someone with the skillset you need. I know a few people who do but they all work in the games industry and are gainfully employed (at least last time I checked).
These are good suggestions. I will see if Raven can post some shots of the work that's already finished.
Generally however, the aim is for it to be roughly on-par with the things you see done with the Media VP's, and the revamping of the existing canon models. Now certainly, ours don't have to be super spectacular, but that's the ballpark.
Also, regarding the models - I have no interest in owning them after I've paid for them, other than have them appear in BWO with no restrictions. All the other considerations are up to the modeler. If they want them to be used in other campaigns, it's up to them to enforce how they want their models to be associated with by other projects.
Put short, aside from them being in BWO, the work is the artists' to do with as they choose. That's the long and the short of it.
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Unfortunately I do not have any texturing or modelling skills, but if I may make a suggestion: You should probably focus on finishing and releasing the first Act or so of the campaign. That might get you public attention and momentum and motivate people to contribute to the project. Because I don't think that I lie when I say that BWO is considered a dead project by a lot of people in this community already. This... well... "act of desperation" won't do much to negate that impression.
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Consider me working on models assigned to me by Raven. You will get everything finished.
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That's great to know, thanks. :)
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I wish I was more technically savvy so I could help you all, but it's great to see BWO may have a pulse after all.
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If you could give more details about what you need and how everyone can contribute, that might help. I'm not interested in the money, but I'm heading back up to work tomorrow, I'll likely have time to UV Map a ship. Would that be valuable?
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I am sure it would. Raven has all the details on the per-model basis, but there is at least one of the models that needs UVing. He will probably contact you with the details on that.
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Sixteen assets sounds like a lot of work. I'll help out.
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Much appreciated. Same as Black Wolf, I'm sure Raven will contact you the first chance he gets.
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I want you to know that, despite my silence so far, I'm keeping an eye on this thread.
I haven't replied to anyone yet because I want to first get a sense of who's willing to help out, for pay or for free, so that I can spread the assets accordingly.
So if I haven't replied to your PM's yet, it's not because I forgot or anything. It's because I'd rather send you a meaningful reply.
Thanks for the help, everyone! :)
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Could this get posted on Facebook? I've been told HLP has a FB page.
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That could certainly be useful, while the FB group only has 147 members (I'm not sure how many people are there actually active members vs actual forum membership) it would be nice to get the word out that way to members who don't regularly check the forums/this project.
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you should just put this up on kickstarter :)
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Ideally I would like to help so I could see this project finished, though, in the past I've offered to help and didn't deliver squat and also at this time don't have a lot of free time to devote to . . much of anything really. Plus despite making some O-K models in the past, I think my modelling ability is pretty amateurish as I've never taken formal training. That being said, I do have a subscription to Digital Tutors so I may be able to both upgrade my skills to be more clean&efficient and also find some time in the future. I do want to learn some proper modelling as I want to get some starship miniatures created for a tabletop game I also want to create and sell.
So, for now would just want to express interest/support and a desire to help. And if I'm in a better position to help you soon I'll let you know.
For this exact moment I'm on Digital Tutors to learn about scripting/game design so I can hopefully start creating some games (and participate in Ludum dare this weekend).
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I'd like to do one or two models, besides the texturing (I'm just not very good at that.) I would prefer to be paid, but it's not mandatory.
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That's fair enough, have a talk with Raven, see what you can do.
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It might help if you guys gave a general indicator on what level of quality you are looking for with models and textures.
Basically what Blackdove said on that. FSU quality.
Unfortunately I do not have any texturing or modelling skills, but if I may make a suggestion: You should probably focus on finishing and releasing the first Act or so of the campaign. That might get you public attention and momentum and motivate people to contribute to the project.
That's something we've been considering, actually, but no concrete decision has been done, yet.
Even if you can't model\texture, it's ok: we'll need skilled people in other areas (Fredding, skyboxes, effects, sound, etc), eventually.
Could this get posted on Facebook? I've been told HLP has a FB page.
That's up to Blackdove. :)
you should just put this up on kickstarter :)
I'm afraid this wouldn't qualify. I mean, ask for crowdfunfing for a mod would be kind of weird, no?
Ideally I would like to help so I could see this project finished, though, in the past I've offered to help and didn't deliver squat and also at this time don't have a lot of free time to devote to . . much of anything really. Plus despite making some O-K models in the past, I think my modelling ability is pretty amateurish as I've never taken formal training. That being said, I do have a subscription to Digital Tutors so I may be able to both upgrade my skills to be more clean&efficient and also find some time in the future. I do want to learn some proper modelling as I want to get some starship miniatures created for a tabletop game I also want to create and sell.
So, for now would just want to express interest/support and a desire to help. And if I'm in a better position to help you soon I'll let you know.
For this exact moment I'm on Digital Tutors to learn about scripting/game design so I can hopefully start creating some games (and participate in Ludum dare this weekend).
That's cool, no worries. I've seen some of those Digital Tutors tutorials. They are pretty solid. Same for the Gnomon Workshop ones. I don't know which app you use for modelling, but if it's Max, and you're stuck, drop me a PM and I may be able to steer you in the right direction. :)
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Ideally I would like to help so I could see this project finished, though, in the past I've offered to help and didn't deliver squat and also at this time don't have a lot of free time to devote to . . much of anything really. Plus despite making some O-K models in the past, I think my modelling ability is pretty amateurish as I've never taken formal training. That being said, I do have a subscription to Digital Tutors so I may be able to both upgrade my skills to be more clean&efficient and also find some time in the future. I do want to learn some proper modelling as I want to get some starship miniatures created for a tabletop game I also want to create and sell.
So, for now would just want to express interest/support and a desire to help. And if I'm in a better position to help you soon I'll let you know.
For this exact moment I'm on Digital Tutors to learn about scripting/game design so I can hopefully start creating some games (and participate in Ludum dare this weekend).
That's cool, no worries. I've seen some of those Digital Tutors tutorials. They are pretty solid. Same for the Gnomon Workshop ones. I don't know which app you use for modelling, but if it's Max, and you're stuck, drop me a PM and I may be able to steer you in the right direction. :)
Autodesk Maya presently. Not so much stuck with how to do a model, but still learning the efficient and quality ways to create something instead of my default mode of doing things the hard way
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Even if you can't model\texture, it's ok: we'll need skilled people in other areas (Fredding, skyboxes, effects, sound, etc), eventually.
Hello. I'd be willing to do sound design and sound editing. I have some experience with recording music and doing sound design for video game mods. No payment needed.
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That does sound like something we might need. I will contact you in the coming weeks regarding that. There are some loose ends regarding our direction with sound that I need to check up on.
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Good to see you Slanker :) Yeah music and sound will come in handy!
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This is Alpha3 speaking!
So sorry I can't be of any help because I have no skill you could make use of, but be sure I'll try it as soon as this mod becomes available! :yes:
A+
Jack H.
"...can't wait..."
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Even if you can't model\texture, it's ok: we'll need skilled people in other areas (Fredding, skyboxes, effects, sound, etc), eventually.
Hello. I'd be willing to do sound design and sound editing. I have some experience with recording music and doing sound design for video game mods. No payment needed.
I don't know if you saw my thread in the modding section which was also mentioned in this month's newsletter, but I would be willing to create sounds and try and make some music for you if it is needed.
Examples of sounds I have made can be found in my Audio Thread found here.. http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=88330.0
If you would like a couple of examples of music I have created in the past you might want to take a look at these, but please bear in mind that the genre when I did these id drum and bass, but I could put my "talent" (haha) to more ambient use if required.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIvmn1OfLs8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAofbmlbgbY
Give me a shout if I'm needed! :)
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You don't have to respond if you're not interested, but I've done some unofficial voice acting in the past, and sadly, that's all I'd be able to give to help except good wishes. My Skype is connected to here, and I can use that to transfer Audacity files (.WAV I believe? I might be able to configure it into something else) for whatever roles you need, and no, I do NOT want your money. I'd do this for free. :pimp:
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i can fredding create missions for Blackwater Operations
if you need it
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i can fredding create missions for Blackwater Operations
if you need it
That would be handy, indeed! Could you PM me samples of your previous mission work, as well as how exactly you were involved in those missions? (just fredding, Design, etc)
By the way, we never contacted some of the people who offered their help in this thread. The reason is because at the moment there are certain areas that we're not ready to tackle yet (like voice acting, for example). But we will when the time comes, even if it's 2 years from now :D I'd like to say a big "Thank you!" for those who've been stepping up, regardless :)
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ive sended you private massege about my missions
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Raven, what specifically do you need help with besides modeling and texturing? I understand you need help with mission design (which unfortunately I am not the most qualified to help with such an endeavor), but I would like to know some specifics to see if there's anything I can do to help.
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Well, eventually we will also need Voice Acting, some table fixes, some sound FX, graphic FX, music. And coding would also come handy, but not crucial, since most of those things would be cosmetic things :)
That's it from the top of my head, bit I might be missing something
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Well depending on what you need fixing I might be able to help with tables.
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Well, eventually we will also need Voice Acting, some table fixes, some sound FX, graphic FX, music. And coding would also come handy, but not crucial, since most of those things would be cosmetic things :)
That's it from the top of my head, bit I might be missing something
I only ask this because I saw a poll about this from BWO people years ago concerning voice acting (BWO asked whether people would want a delay in release to implement voice acting or to put it out normally...the vast majority said don't delay it for voice acting): are you planning to do voice acting for the initial release...or releasing it first normally and do a voice-acted version down the road?
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+1 to CT27's suggestion. If WiH's mammoth VA effort is any indication, VAing is usually a huge pain.
Maybe save VAing for a director's cut?
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This is by no way official, but I don't think we have a definite decision on this. We want to try different development methods, and these may or may not make it possible to take care of VA much earlier than normal. If that's the case, it would be very possible to have an initial release with VA, without delays.
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Are you going to do another fighter/bomber preview?
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Yes, in due time. Just hold on :)