Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: SpardaSon21 on June 04, 2011, 11:49:01 am
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For those of you in the Duke Nukem Forever First Access Club, check your e-mail. Gearbox should have sent you a code to redeem on Steam. For those of you who aren't in the club, you'll just have to wait.
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it is pretty bad :(
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it is pretty bad :(
Say it ain't so.
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A while back, I bought the GOTY bundle for Borderlands. It came with a Duke Nukem Forever demo code that I covet so very dearly--
XRBJT-KTCBX-XRBHT-JTTTT-W6XS6
--Oh.... How'd that get there? Oh well. First person to register it is....ummm....twelve.
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Guess that makes me twelve. :p Thank you kindly.
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Playthrough of the demo recorded.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6MjzgTZriw
Doesn't really seem to live up to what I was expecting of DNF.
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Well it's only two levels, and the second level is less Classic Duke and more "This is the new stuff we're using," it doesn't really give much to look at other than messing around with some things here and there. It's at least decent enough to see what the rest of it is like.
I say it as such because since UT3 in '07, I haven't been impressed with a single game release since then other than Borderlands, Starcraft 2 and New Vegas.
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It just looks lame. Bulletstorm looked better, and I suspect has better gameplay than this.
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It just looks lame. Bulletstorm looked better, and I suspect has better gameplay than this.
The way 90% of the projectiles miss the player from five meters is ridiculous. :blah:
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The gameplay just seems... dull, void of fun. People talk about it needing polishing, but I'd say it needs one more big delay if they have any hope of making this decent. Quick-time events, two-weapon limit, the whole "blood on the sides of the screen" thing when you've taken damage... it's all just more of the same, with the hype of Duke Nukem tagged onto it.
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I think I might cancel my pre-order. I'm not sure yet. This demo is the same thing they showed at PAX, and that was months ago. I doubt much has changed, but you never know.
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Quick-time events
>implying quicktime events are necessarily bad and are what is ruining this game
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That...well, didnt remind me of a Duke game. It looked painfully generic. This saddens me. I mean, I didn't really have stellar expectations of the game in the first place, but still. :(
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Quick-time events
>implying quicktime events are necessarily bad and are what is ruining this game
Not implied.
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Say it ain't so.
hey man the e3 2001 trailer looked awesome
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The gameplay just seems... dull, void of fun. People talk about it needing polishing, but I'd say it needs one more big delay if they have any hope of making this decent. Quick-time events, two-weapon limit, the whole "blood on the sides of the screen" thing when you've taken damage... it's all just more of the same, with the hype of Duke Nukem tagged onto it.
Duke Nukem was always generic. Back in the day the original was a slightly improved version of doom.
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It's a game that is never destined to live up to the promised amount of awesome. It might help not to think of it as a game that took 12 years to develop, but a game written in 8 months from a tech-demo that was slightly past it's best date.
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It's a game that is never destined to live up to the promised amount of awesome. It might help not to think of it as a game that took 12 years to develop, but a game written in 8 months from a tech-demo that was slightly past it's best date.
After viewing The Cynical Brit's youtube review I do agree with his overall assessment: Fun but several gameplay mechanics seriously should have been less like Halo and more like the original.
Personally I feel there was no reason for it to not have been released ten years ago, but 3D Realms screwed up. The game is famous before it was released, but for all the wrong reasons.
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Honestly, in the long run, I'm not looking for it to be any sort of special experience gameplay-wise, and I don't give much of a fig if it comes across as "generic." I'm planning to buy it at some point (though not for full price) just for the simple fact that it's Duke Nukem Forever. It's pretty much the holy grail of vaporware, a running gag for the better part of a decade...and yet here it is, sitting on store shelves. It's a part of gaming history, and I feel I owe it to myself to get the thing.
Plus, there's all of the fantastically-immature jokes and general Dukeness. That's good too. :D
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Honestly, in the long run, I'm not looking for it to be any sort of special experience gameplay-wise, and I don't give much of a fig if it comes across as "generic." I'm planning to buy it at some point (though not for full price) just for the simple fact that it's Duke Nukem Forever. It's pretty much the holy grail of vaporware, a running gag for the better part of a decade...and yet here it is, sitting on store shelves. It's a part of gaming history, and I feel I owe it to myself to get the thing.
Plus, there's all of the fantastically-immature jokes and general Dukeness. That's good too. :D
So now does the vaporware crown go to Blackwater Operations or Machina Terra? :P
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hey man the e3 2001 trailer looked awesome
Granted, D3D wasn't super-awesome. It was merely playable, with amusing bits. However I'm expecting "playable" again, with more amusing bits in that special Duke utterly uncorrect way.
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What I saw was indeed a fusion of old and modern shooters. Two weapon limit seems to cause most of the complaints, other mechanics I can stomach, but not that. I agree that this could be much better without that limit, but luckily it is likely the first thing that gets modded out from the PC version. Especially when there is video material of a different weapon selection method which contained all guns (in some Jace Hall show), this was back in 2010 I guess.
But it was refreshing to see a shooter without any "#¤#"&#¤&/ cover mechanics and at least there is some difficulty included, based on that video at least.
I don't consider this a lost case yet. I have a sneaking suspicion that the desert level is likely more boring than the typical DNF-level. The best thing at the moment is that I only need to wait a couple of days(!) and I can actually see it being played! From the internet response, it sounds like XBOX version has a lot of performance problems, PS3 works, and PC is smooth. I just wish 3DRealms had said screw consoles and make this a PC game instead of conforming to two weapon limit - this was because it was not possible to map all weapons nicely to console controllers.
Also, this:
(http://static.images.memegenerator.net/Instances400/7/7484/7663724.jpg)
Who else is thinking that there will be a ton of new trolling material when this game is released?
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I just wish 3DRealms had said screw consoles and make this a PC game instead of conforming to two weapon limit - this was because it was not possible to map all weapons nicely to console controllers.
I doubt that was the reason; I've played several console shooters (all the way back to GoldenEye 64) that let you scroll between multiple weapons, and I've even seen one or two that let you assign quick-select weapons to a D-pad. I can't really stand that two-weapon limit myself, though, and I agree that a game like Duke Nukem shouldn't be bowing to some sort of absurdist "realism" like that.
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2 weapon limit = consoles
what is this i dont even
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Doesn't make sense in the least bit... There are several ways to have multiple weapons on a console FPS. Probably the easiest way is to use a wheel.
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You know, for how "cultured" and "elite" PC jockeys try to pass themselves off as compared to gamers that dare to own a console, the fools are actually more annoying than the screechy twelve year olds I run into on Live and PSN occasionally. Just FYI, Mika.
More on topic, the two weapon limit is likely what killed it for me, as well. It's just not Duke, and is probably what made it look so damn generic in my eyes.
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I just wish 3DRealms had said screw consoles and make this a PC game instead of conforming to two weapon limit - this was because it was not possible to map all weapons nicely to console controllers.
I doubt that was the reason; I've played several console shooters (all the way back to GoldenEye 64) that let you scroll between multiple weapons, and I've even seen one or two that let you assign quick-select weapons to a D-pad. I can't really stand that two-weapon limit myself, though, and I agree that a game like Duke Nukem shouldn't be bowing to some sort of absurdist "realism" like that.
And when was the N64 around? Late 90's? :P
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I doubt that was the reason; I've played several console shooters (all the way back to GoldenEye 64) that let you scroll between multiple weapons, and I've even seen one or two that let you assign quick-select weapons to a D-pad.
George Broussard has defended it on that basis, unfortunately. His argument is there are only so many buttons on a controller.
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I doubt that was the reason; I've played several console shooters (all the way back to GoldenEye 64) that let you scroll between multiple weapons, and I've even seen one or two that let you assign quick-select weapons to a D-pad.
George Broussard has defended it on that basis, unfortunately. His argument is there are only so many buttons on a controller.
So straight from the horse's mouth, it was because of consoles.
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But other games have already proven that it doesn't matter... It's the damn 21st century FPS conventions.
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Indeed. Just look at Half-Life 2 for how to do more than two weapons at a time on a console.
Honestly though, in a normal FPS, it forces the player to choose tactically. In something like Duke Nukem, the limit is best greeted with something like "GTFO!"
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The realism argument isn't any better, cause a 2 weapon limit just won't make Duke any more realistic.
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Say it ain't so.
hey man the e3 2001 trailer looked awesome
:lol:
I want Jetski's falling out of planes :nod:
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The whole thing fulfills the worst nightmare I had about it.
Where is the wisecracking, womanizing, sunglasses wearing badass who uses 50,000 bullets, an RPG, 60 rapid fire mini-rockets, and a shrink ray to kill ONE bad guy...
He's over in the corner laughing his ass off at his brain damaged clone with no balls and half a dick that can barely hold TWO guns and dies in 3 shots on hard.
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So straight from the horse's mouth, it was because of consoles.
Actually I'd say it's more indicative of the very real possiblity that George Broussard is a bit an idiot.
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But other games have already proven that it doesn't matter... It's the damn 21st century FPS conventions.
Yes it does work fine on Halo or COD or something like that, but this is DUKE NUKEM.
The realism argument isn't any better, cause a 2 weapon limit just won't make Duke any more realistic.
Exactly, other games are about strategy and tactics, but Duke Nukem has always been about one thing and that's running around blasting the **** out of everything in sight.
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OMG, melee is NOT the mighty foot!
@#;ø®!, Duke 3D was one of the fisrt FPS to have an emergency melee button, and they didn't even keep it??? (or maybe it is not ready yet, like that cynical brit guy said in the video :P)
I can understand that some frightened exec would want regenerative health + blood on the screen corners & two weapon limit, but that's a basic duke symbol: duke litteraly kicking some alien ass. It is one of the thing I remembered most from D3D.
Other things include: jetpack - check ; shrink ray-check ; devastator - check ; freeze-ray - maybe when the full game comes out ; pig cops - check ; chicks showing their tits - check ; duke-speak - check
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tbh if the guys in charge dont have the balls to demand that DNF be politically incorrect then they have no place in a duke project
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It's just another shooter.
Take from that what you will.
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It's just another shooter.
Take from that what you will.
I didn't know Axem made Duke campaigns
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I did play through the demo myself (which I was pleasantly surprised to see ran decently on my old rig), and to be fair, the two-weapon limit didn't even necessarily feel all that "limiting," since there were extra guns scattered about literally every ten feet, so swapping out was almost always an option. I can't even say I minded how the "Ego" meter was set up, mostly because it recharged fast enough that you didn't have to go hide behind cover for fifteen seconds in order to continue on. I've played my share of healthpack-based games, and they mostly work out just fine, but there have been times when they turn into a frustrating exercise of always being at very low health, having to live from pick-up to pick-up, and dying enough to take you out of the flow of the game. (Max Payne is currently giving me some grief in just this manner.) Given the choice between that and the magical bloody-screen health refresh, the latter almost seems like the better choice.
The other thing I was surprised about was that the desert level was reasonably difficult, even on the normal difficulty; I died a few times at that fixed-gun encounter with several pigs. (Shooting their limbs off was fun. :D) The gameplay wasn't all that special, but the demo was short enough that it felt like more of a teaser than anything else; I feel like it was the dev team's way of saying, "It really isn't vaporware! Believe us!" I can see the full-fledged game being a fun time.
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I think it'll be fun to play, but it's by far not going to be the biggest thing since Jesus's rebirth that people make it seem like. Half Life 2 was the same way, absurd amounts of hype for a game that was only enjoyable.
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I think it'll be fun to play, but it's by far not going to be the biggest thing since Jesus's rebirth that people make it seem like. Half Life 2 was the same way, absurd amounts of hype for a game that was only enjoyable.
HL2 didn't take more than a decade to make. No matter how good the gameplay for DNF could have been it could not have justified that kind of wait.
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I'm aware that Half Life 2 didn't take over a decade to make. I didn't say anything about how long it took. Read the post again.
absurd amounts of hype for a game that was only enjoyable.
I only talked about its popularity before release.
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Now that I have seen the game, it is a contender on my to buy -list.
What it is like by the first couple of hours? It is more like Half-Life 2, there is surprisingly lot of puzzles. Plenty of chuckling comes from appropriately named objects and places. Disappointingly, not all things can be shot to get through, and those iron fences and doors are one that I indeed think the RPG should devastate or go through. Note that it wasn't me who played it, I only sat and watched. But I think it is very likely that PC is the most fluent experience, especially the pig cops tend to cause trouble when they get close and there is no mouse-like precision in controls.
My first impression is that Duke has been modernized, and not all of the changes are for better - two weapon limit comes to mind, as was stated by my friend who uses PS3. It is as if something would still have been lost in conversion, BUT, and this is a big but, I need to try this on PC, the aiming seemed cumbersome on a console. Alien bastards have nasty shields that prevent their ships from being shot down, which was a bit of a disappointment too. Even though environment is destructible, it isn't as destructible as I wished for.
In the end, it might suffer from being modernized while still retaining some of the old, a compromise few might like. As I said earlier, it feels more like Half Life 2 instead of Painkiller. Can't yet tell, but it still seems to be worthy of buying. I need to check the current prices, though.
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As an avid old-school FPS fan, DNF is just sad... The linearity, two-weapon mechanic, regenerating health + high-damage and hard-to-dodge enemies, unlimited-ammo crates, event-scripting (walk into a room, door locks, monsters show up, monsters get killed, door unlocks) and total lack of secrets come across as the developer ordering the player how to play, where to go and how to tackle each situation. Compare that with Doom, which has loads of secrets and often has several ways of tackling any one map.
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As an avid old-school FPS fan, DNF is just sad... The linearity, two-weapon mechanic, regenerating health + high-damage and hard-to-dodge enemies, unlimited-ammo crates, event-scripting (walk into a room, door locks, monsters show up, monsters get killed, door unlocks) and total lack of secrets come across as the developer ordering the player how to play, where to go and how to tackle each situation. Compare that with Doom, which has loads of secrets and often has several ways of tackling any one map.
You are not the only one. Plenty of people from Duke modding community were pissed off when they heard about two weapon limit and health regeneration. They accepted it at that time though, and gave the game a chance. However, the response has been mostly negative on these two issues. They still don't like the two weapon limit, but a lot of PC gamers have likely trusted on the fact that it is likely the first thing that gets modded out of the game. BUT, the console window has been removed from the retail version, and some anti-hacking stuff has been added in! In the demo version, they have already put in FOV adjustment and Depth of Field adjustment tools. Also they added in a possibility of first person view when driving, which seemed actually pretty good (this happened in a couple of days)! Linearity I can accept when done well, Painkiller is still the best modern shooter I have played in the recent years, and it was pretty linear, though that didn't interfere with the shooting part.
The biggest flaming seems to be coming from that Gearbox has removed the console from the game, as everything else could be fixed by the community that did eDuke with Polymer renderer to allow Duke3D still to be played. The official reason for this is that console allows for nasty stuff to be done in multiplayer.
Plenty of old school gamers are likely going to be disappointed, this was supposed to be the last bastion of old school action shooter. All hope lies now on the modding community. I still think I'm going to buy this, but wait for SteamWorks crack (I'm not going to register to a service I'll only use once) and mods that take away the design decisions that don't seem to work.
DNF is likely the last new game I'll buy, I don't find anything interesting looming on the horizon any more. Current anti-piracy measures are unacceptable - I had to apply crack to a legitimate Dead Rising 2 to get it working - and if there's going to be DLC within two weeks of DNF's release, that's going to be taken as a giant middle finger from Gearbox. PC gamers just don't swallow this, if you want to do an expansion disk, then do a real expansion disk instead of flimsy DLC.
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I can definitely see the complaints about weapons limits, but I can't really say the same about the regenerating health, since I felt like the demo handled that well as a whole. The way I see it, it beats having to limp from one encounter to the next, hoping that your meager health bar holds out until you can find the next scarce medkit (which will probably be erased by the enemy encounter in the very next room anyway).
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Playing through each level of Quake 1 and 2 on Nightmare with less than ten health per room is still fun. :P
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Playing through each level of Quake 1 and 2 on Nightmare with less than ten health per room is still fun. :P
Like all things, Pucker Factor loses its impact if employed constantly.
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Playing through each level of Quake 1 and 2 on Nightmare with less than ten health per room is still fun. :P
Oh God no...that sort of thing is one of my arch-peeves in terms of game design. If I'm at least fairly-competent at your game and yet still managed to get killed by the same room of baddies several times in a row because you're being ridiculously stingy with health packs, you're Doing It Wrong.
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Quake 2 requires you go back and forth on a few levels to progress through the story, and when you do gain access to new areas within the levels you've previously visited you'll also fight more Strogg. Get hit too many times beforehand and there won't be enough packs to pick up when you eventually start fighting again. Being able to maintain a high armor rating for the Body Armor and cells for the Power Shield makes health loss a non-issue unless you're unable to fight Gladiators properly and get whacked by hypersonic slugs too many times.
Odd that I'd forget about the Gunner's grenade spam. Ever since I had patched it to have Nightmare as a selectable difficulty their firing pattern changed to where it becomes unpredictable, and a hit from one of the three - four grenades is guarenteed; even with all the armor and trinkets active they'll still take out a good bit from of you.
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This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHmEYuYJJrc#t=42s) NSFW gameplay video has moved DNF from my sub-$10-Steam-sale list to my get-the-****-out-you-creepy-mother****ers list.
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This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHmEYuYJJrc#t=42s) NSFW gameplay video has moved DNF from my sub-$10-Steam-sale list to my get-the-****-out-you-creepy-mother****ers list.
what the ****
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This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHmEYuYJJrc#t=42s) NSFW gameplay video has moved DNF from my sub-$10-Steam-sale list to my get-the-****-out-you-creepy-mother****ers list.
They sent up Alien in the most offensive way possible.
Not surprised. Vaguely expected. This is what Duke does.
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Basically the only expression I was capable of showing was "wtf" one...
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Haha well I smirked.
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Yeah, I kind of lol'd myself.
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This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHmEYuYJJrc#t=42s) NSFW gameplay video has moved DNF from my sub-$10-Steam-sale list to my get-the-****-out-you-creepy-mother****ers list.
what the ****
It does rather highlight the game's biggest issue. If you played Duke Nukem 3D, you should have expected something like this to pass for humor in DNF. But, if you played Duke Nukem 3D, you're probably old enough by now to have grown out of that style of humor.
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This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHmEYuYJJrc#t=42s) NSFW gameplay video has moved DNF from my sub-$10-Steam-sale list to my get-the-****-out-you-creepy-mother****ers list.
what the ****
It does rather highlight the game's biggest issue. If you played Duke Nukem 3D, you should have expected something like this to pass for humor in DNF. But, if you played Duke Nukem 3D, you're probably old enough by now to have grown out of that style of humor.
I refute this.
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Looks like killing the rest of them doesn't make swarms of octobrains spawn. Guess the RPG addicts won't worry about collateral damage anymore.
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It does rather highlight the game's biggest issue. If you played Duke Nukem 3D, you should have expected something like this to pass for humor in DNF. But, if you played Duke Nukem 3D, you're probably old enough by now to have grown out of that style of humor.
I refute this.
Well, now I'm curious. On what basis do you refute my statement? Does DNF have bigger problems than targetting its middle school humor towards an audience that's way, way past middle school, or do you think that a majority of DN3D's audience hasn't grown or matured in the last decade and a half?
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I played Duke Nukem 1, 2 and 3D back in the day (all be it at about 15 for 3D), along with Manhattan project a few years ago and loved them all. And would be disappointed to loose the politically incorrect theme that ran through the games in any sequel because it is part of the character of the series and an element that evolved through out and something I still enjoy about them. You say fans of the games from when they were first released would have grow out of the in your face political incorrectness by now, I am in my late 20's and still enjoy it.
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I think it was about four years ago when I last did runs of Duke Nukem 3D and Shadow Warrior, at 18. Still ****ing hilarious.
Another game that's politically incorrect (To a different scale), Postal 2. Watch people panic as you piss on Gary Coleman's burning corpse then piss on the panicing shoppers, and kick them as they vomit in disgust, fight alongside priests against an invasion of stereotype Middle Eastern suicide bombers, pick up a stray cat walking across the street; voila! Instant shotgun sound suppressor.
(I still need to play through more of it to see what else it has, there's a reason Australia banned it.)
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Personally, the biggest difference here is that the original DN3D was a game made for 12-year-olds by people who were in on the joke and who were taking a piss.
DNF, however, feels like a game for 12-year-olds made by 12-year-olds. Painkiller and Bulletstorm are probably the better DNF's, at least Bulletstorm managed to be actually funny ever so often. This is just offensive in order to be offensive, not offensive in order to be funny.
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Painkiller's only funny factor was trying to get the most spontaneous gib deaths in one place; minimalistic plot and pure bloodshed in every corner, I don't see how that could be compared to games made with verbally offensive material.
Forgot to say, made offensive on purpose.
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Painkiller's only funny factor was trying to get the most spontaneous gib deaths in one place; minimalistic plot and pure bloodshed in every corner, I don't see how that could be compared to games made with verbally offensive material.
Was?? Only??
In game play terms Painkiller was and still is what I have missed for a long time. Ridiculous but at the same time awesome levels, secret areas, tons of varied enemies and good overall playability. And deducing from some of the negative feedback of DNF, I'm not the only one who has been looking for this sort of FPS.
I actually saw the scene shown in NSFW while it was played. I didn't find it offensive, and was kind of expecting it given that the captured women in Duke3D asked to be put out of misery. Although I had to ask for a confirmation from a friend that did I really see those twins being killed. It was sort of unexpected, though.
What it comes to growing up, some people do, some people don't ;)
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Are you trying to tell me there are other funny things in Painkiller besides the different ways to mercilessly slaughter seemingly endless waves of skeletons and demonic beasts sent from Hell? Perhaps you didn't read the post thoroughly, Painkiller doesn't have corny one-liners and lame puns tossed around like confetti, it was made to shoot at things, and kill them, and shoot at more things, and kill them too. It's not made to be funny unless you have that sadistic streak where seeing things explode is funny to you - then otherwise the game is knee-slap hilarious. Painkiller is still awesome, but I wasn't talking about how good it was or how cool the levels were, I was talking about how Painkiller cannot be a valid compairson to Duke Nukem Forever because of the extreme difference in design.
Duke Nukem Forever and Postal make better comparisons because both have degrees of intentional offensiveness and vulgariy. To compare Painkiller and Duke Nukem would be like comparing Raptor: Call of the Shadows to Touhou, which while they're both vertical-scrolling Shoot'em Ups, their design is very different.
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I played Duke Nukem 1, 2 and 3D back in the day (all be it at about 15 for 3D), along with Manhattan project a few years ago and loved them all. And would be disappointed to loose the politically incorrect theme that ran through the games in any sequel because it is part of the character of the series and an element that evolved through out and something I still enjoy about them. You say fans of the games from when they were first released would have grow out of the in your face political incorrectness by now, I am in my late 20's and still enjoy it.
I'm not saying that Duke should have grown up. You're right that Duke behaving like a mature adult would be wildly out-of-character and a betrayal of the franchise. I'm also not saying that you're 'wrong' for still liking Duke (though I won't take you at your word, the next time you tell me something is absolutely hilarious).
I'm saying that this game no longer has a valid target audience. The age group that's most likely to find this kind of thing funny won't have the nostalgia associated with the previous Duke Nukem games, because they're too young. The people who do have that nostalgia aren't likely to find the humor funny anymore, because they've grown up. It leads me to think that if there is a market for this style of humor in a game, it would have been better served by a new franchise altogether, since slapping the Duke Nukem name on it isn't going to draw in much (if any) of the old audience. They could have milked this cow for additional sales in 2000, when we were still teenagers, but not in 2011.
Whether or not there is a market for this style of game anymore is also something worth questioning. From a sales perspective, ESRB ratings didn't mean much in 1996, because parents and retail chains were poorly educated about what the ESRB was and what their ratings meant. Now, the difference in sales between a T-rated game and an M-rated game with similar themes and play style is enough for publishers to take note. I'll be interested to see how well DNF sells, with a sense of humor targetted towards twelve-year-olds and a rating restricting it to the seventeen-plus crowd.
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Well here's a question: what if I'm only playing through Duke 3D for the first time at this present moment, without any sort of nostalgia filter, and yet I'm finding it to be largely hilarious? I'd like to think that I (largely) don't have the sense of humor of a twelve-year-old, but sometimes I just want some stupid goofy fun, and DNF looks to deliver it.
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But the question is, does it deliver the goods as good as or better than DN3D? As far as I am concerned, it doesn't. DN3D was by no means a deep exploration of the human condition or anything, but it was easy to pick up, nice to play, and pretty funny.
DNF, from what I have seen in the Demo, is just utterly boring and derivative in comparison. Especially when compared to Bulletstorm, which was, even in the demo, very fun, and (crucially) looked and played brilliantly, despite, as Yahtzee put it, being constrained by the conveyor belt system of being a AAA production.
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You keep saying that, yet when I looked at Bulletstorm gameplay videos, the people trying to kill you miss when firing from ten feet away, which sounds very unfun.
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Well here's a question: what if I'm only playing through Duke 3D for the first time at this present moment, without any sort of nostalgia filter, and yet I'm finding it to be largely hilarious?
I just want some stupid [...] fun.
You answered your question for me.
You're also either missing the point or taking my statements much too personally. To reiterate, I questioned whether or not there was any benefit a game bearing the Duke Nukem name this long after the last entry in the series and whether or not there was still a place in the market for a Duke Nukem-style game. I just don't see what 2K and Gearbox hoped to gain by acquiring this property and pushing DNF out the door, instead of letting it die in 3DRealms' care.
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Perhaps they hoped for people buying it just to see what all that fuss with "vaporware" was about.
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You keep saying that, yet when I looked at Bulletstorm gameplay videos, the people trying to kill you miss when firing from ten feet away, which sounds very unfun.
That would be missing the point. Sure, you can point to something like that and say "Haha, that's poor, your AI suxx", and you'd be right.
But the complete package, the entire presentation, is much more refined, much more surefooted, and ultimately more entertaining than DNF. At least in my opinion.
To reiterate, I questioned whether or not there was any benefit a game bearing the Duke Nukem name this long after the last entry in the series and whether or not there was still a place in the market for a Duke Nukem-style game.
Yes, to both questions. But DNF is, IMHO, not that game. It was trying to be, but failed, for whatever reason.
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One question, The_E. Have you actually played Duke Nukem Forever, the full game, I mean?
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One question, The_E. Have you actually played Duke Nukem Forever, the full game, I mean?
Have you actually played Big Rigs: Over The Road Racing, the full game, I mean?
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One question, The_E. Have you actually played Duke Nukem Forever, the full game, I mean?
No, only the demo. Which, granted, isn't really enough to form an informed opinion I'll admit.
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Have you actually played Big Rigs: Over The Road Racing, the full game, I mean?
Yes.
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Have you actually played Big Rigs: Over The Road Racing, the full game, I mean?
Yes.
Lucky bastard, I wanted to try that myself too. :(
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I have played DNF for two days now. My opinions of it are a bit mixed but I have yet to finish it.
Quality of assets is slightly varied, which is quite understandable given its development history. But is it ugly? No, I don't think so. There are a few places where textures for example were clearly sub-par. My biggest gripe graphics-wise is that everything has plastic feel to them most of the time. So bottom line, graphics are pretty much average. As for sounds department, I think sounds could have had a bit more depth and sharpness to them. Sometimes the audio environment just kinda feels dull. Music is what you'd expect from a DN game, but I think the soundtrack is a bit lacking in variety and gets monotonous after a while. So again, average.
I think DNF is sorta fun to play. At first it is odd to play shrunk Duke like if it was DN1 or 2 turned 3D. Or drive RC car while shrunk or monster truck in various places. It felt out of place but in the end it served as good distraction of the usual shoot 'em up play. Controversial themes like Duke's one-liners, the girls, etc do give a good chuckle every now and then. Difficulty seems to be quite fine, the medium difficulty isn't too hard or too easy.
Guns pack enough punch not to feel peashooters. I did notice though that sometimes it feels as if DNF uses armor.tbl, pigcops can sometimes take a lot of punishment but sometimes they die very fast for example. One time its enough to kill a pig with few slugs from the Ripper, another time you need to empty a whole clip into one to drop it. It's odd. The two-gun limit has been mentioned every second post and I tend to agree. While guns are almost always laying around waiting to be picked up, it just doesn't feel like Duke not to be able to carry a whole arsenal with you. There were a few times when I ran out of ammo at which point Duke automatically switches to his next weapon. If that happens to be RPG or Devastator and you're still pressing the trigger, well, let's say you may end up in small bits before you notice it. I really wish Duke's kick would have been standard melee attack.
There's no saving game manually either, it's all checkpoints. Though checkpoints are basically littered around after every fourth corner so it's not really a problem. What is a problem though that weapons dropped by killed monsters vanish when loading a checkpoint.
What was shown in the playable demo isn't much to speak of. The mine level is actually really boring compared to most other levels and I don't get why they decided to show off that level in a demo, there would have been much better demo material too.
My verdict so far is that while DNF doesn't suck, it is still fun enough to play that it is strong in the average class. It could have been better and I actually hope 2K Games and Gearbox create a new Duke game from scratch that can live up to modern standards while still being a Duke. Is it worth full price? Nah. I'd say it's totally worth buying it for bargain prices though.
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Sounds exactly like my opinion of Half-Life 2 when I first played it; not amazing, but still enjoyable. I think this'll be the same way for DNF as well.
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Duke Nukem Forever is just a game designed for some dumb, politically incorrect fun (like imagining stupid, promiscuous women getting raped and then dying) (while they apologize for it)
Man, I can't believe the Duke can't even rescue his babes. He has failed. (http://fi.somethingawful.com/images/smilies/negativeman-55f.png)
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This was a great post (mostly because of the box art analysis)
The gameplay is intrinsically tied up in the storyline.
In Duke Nukem 3D, the environments, NPC characters and overall production design are relatively 'realistic', which is contrasted with Duke's superhuman run-and-gun ability and total lack of psychological complexity to emphasize that, yes, this guy is a cartoon like Bugs Bunny - but also a transgressive and rebellious figure because of that cartoonishness. The gameplay in DN3D is a huge component of Duke's characterization.
The strippers in DN3D are just women who strip. They didn't shriek innuendos at you at all. They didn't declare themselves stupid in scripted sequences. They did their jobs in exchange for money. Again, the interactive world was 'realistic' (for a 1996 game) and Duke was the cartoon avenging force who flew down to Earth to right the wrongs. Kinda.
(People have noted that in Duke II, Duke is a full-fledged celebrity. But that's part of the 80s action parody - Duke is simultaneously an everyman and a celebrity, a blue-collar Joe and a relentless killing machine. But in the grand scheme of things, he's far more populist hero than elitist billionaire. Think of the Ghostbusters - beloved by the public despite being impoverished, uncouth and totally reckless. Duke is a similar underdog. The aliens in Duke II interrupt his TV appearance and steal his moment in the spotlight, because Duke just can't catch a break!)
BeanTaco hit it right on the head: Duke in DNF is clearly an entirely different character, to the point of being essentially the opposite character. He's an impostor.
With the 2-weapon thing and the slower movement, Fake-Duke is 'realistic'* while the world is cartoonishly exaggerated. Women are literally subhuman cock-hungry idiots and not just perceived that way by a flawed protagonist. The president is a liberal pantywaist caricature who (allegedly) gets his comeuppance when Fake-Duke "proves" that the world does need another George W. Bush. Y'know, someone who's motivated by sheer literal prejudice - we don't need no evidence of WMDs. Those alien Iraqis are obviously going to rape our (white) women because, naturally, that's what they do.
It bears repeating that the "normal" people in these games represent you, the Duke's Bro. Those moronic groupies sucking Fake-Duke's cock and getting raped are you.
Fig. 1: Your Face Here.
These NPCs are so ridiculously idiotic and annoying that Duke actually appears rational, levelheaded and intelligent by comparison. The first hour or so of the game is spent with Fake-Duke just walking around gawking at the absurdity around him, because he's normal now. DNF is almost evangelical about this. If you're not like Duke, the game says, you're a ****ing moron and a *****.
Even DNF's cover shows Duke, from the perspective of a kneeling person, holding his gun like a cock. The game's box is telling you to suck Duke's dick. I guess it's truth-in-advertising.
(http://i56.tinypic.com/dbo607.jpg)
Fig. 2: John Romero's about to make you his *****.
Of course, that's not the real Duke. Duke fought the pigs, not his fellow man. Plus, the point of DN3D and earlier games, to an extent, is that no-one can be Duke. He's an amoral force of nature. He's a superhuman wish-fulfillment character. He's a cartoon.
*The DNF health system, bizarrely, goes in the opposite direction, replacing reasonably plausible sci-fi health pickups with the purely fantastic 'ego' system. So while Duke3D is a mortal (every)man who transcends his situation through impossible skills and bravado, Fake Duke is immortal despite lacking much remarkable talent or courage.
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Yeah, that's an awesome post. Totally convinced me. What a shame.
EDIT: Where's it from and from who?
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Some random-ass SomethingAwful poster in the hilarious cluster**** of a DNF thread
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So....
Not going to start the game living in hiding in Stockholm under the name Vladimir Lestrade nor a section on the moon where I was cooking ravioli for and incoming alien wedding party?
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The GameTrailers review was not kind to the new Duke.
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I'd say the game wasn't bad (Really the core of the game is enjoyable) if it wasn't for the goddamn puzzles being blood-boiling-frustrating to the point of wanting to drive my fist through the ****ing monitor.
Parts of the game expect you to know exactly what to do the first time you go through it, and gives you clues---wait they don't give you clues, unless if they do they make them apparent that they're relevant to completing the puzzle when you've forced yourself to a location where the only option is to kill yourself. The ****ing puzzles ruin the fun out of the game.
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Duke Nukem 3d was fun... this game... is not fun.
I find myself going over to Red Faction: Armageddon because that's a game with a mindless plot, fun weapons, and generally fun gameplay. (The open world and human opponents of Guerrilla were better, but Armageddon still is at least fun)
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I'd say the game wasn't bad (Really the core of the game is enjoyable) if it wasn't for the goddamn puzzles being blood-boiling-frustrating to the point of wanting to drive my fist through the ****ing monitor.
Parts of the game expect you to know exactly what to do the first time you go through it, and gives you clues---wait they don't give you clues, unless if they do they make them apparent that they're relevant to completing the puzzle when you've forced yourself to a location where the only option is to kill yourself. The ****ing puzzles ruin the fun out of the game.
I actually found the puzzles to be simple and easy and had no trouble with them.
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You keep saying that, yet when I looked at Bulletstorm gameplay videos, the people trying to kill you miss when firing from ten feet away, which sounds very unfun.
they aren't trying to kill you. They are ugly bags full of sweet, delicious points. It's up to you to extract those points.
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In Duke Nukem 3D, the environments, NPC characters and overall production design are relatively 'realistic', which is contrasted with Duke's superhuman run-and-gun ability and total lack of psychological complexity to emphasize that, yes, this guy is a cartoon like Bugs Bunny - but also a transgressive and rebellious figure because of that cartoonishness. The gameplay in DN3D is a huge component of Duke's characterization.
Except for strippers there weren't any NPCs in DN3D, and if it wasn't for the engine limitations of the day they probably would have done more in that department. And given the large number of easter eggs and references I wouldn't consider it to be too realistic.
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Except for strippers there weren't any NPCs in DN3D, and if it wasn't for the engine limitations of the day they probably would have done more in that department. And given the large number of easter eggs and references I wouldn't consider it to be too realistic.
Are you seriously suggesting DN3D was a multiplayer only shooter? Because that's what you just said.
Then your second sentence just misses the whole point of the argument, you're not even talking about what he is.
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Except for strippers there weren't any NPCs
Who the **** were all those people shooting at me?
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People are overanalyzing DNF.
I's a simple, silly shooter.
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I have been following up some of the reviews, and based on what I saw myself, the game polarizes people quite a bit actually. My personal feeling is that the game is average at moment, quite good at some points and sub-par in a couple of places that I have seen so far. So I don't get the very low scores around 3/10, unless the review is somehow biased from the get go. And get this, somebody has already analyzed the review point distribution from tens of reviews, and found out that it's actually two Gaussian peaks overlapping around 5.8! Yes, they probably take it too seriously.
The other stuff the PC modding community (some of them apparently game developers themselves) has already enabled console back in the retail version, allowing for cheat codes to be used, and more importantly, adjustment of the field of view back to around 90 for wide screen displays. Also included are the first person driving (very HL2-esque!) and some depth of field modifications. They also found out that the bump mapping in the retail version is somehow broken, the textures should have considerably more depth effect, which was also then corrected giving markedly improved visuals. It also turned out that the game uses both normal and bump maps at the same time, the reason for this is unknown at the moment.
Enabling the console (http://forums.duke4.net/topic/4326-mrdeviance-strikes-again-ive-found-a-very-easy-and-native-way-to-enable-a-simplified-console-in-the-full-game-d/)
More pronounced bump mapping (http://forums.duke4.net/topic/4342-mrdeviance-has-fixed-the-bumpmaps-in-the-full-game-oh-nohes-d/)
Now if they only could remove the two gun limit that would be it...
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Yeah, I was kind of surprised at the outright hostility present in a few of the reviews I read. Based on the demo, the full game seemed like it would come in somewhere around average to mediocre, but some of the comments were what I would expect for a title that was flat-out broken. Maybe some reviewers bought into the decade's worth of hype.
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I'm playing it now. It's not that bad. It's the level of humor I expected from a Duke game. I guess some people expected something better than DN3D. Take off the nostalgia glasses and you'll see this game was everything they intended DN3D to be.
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I'm playing it now. It's not that bad. It's the level of humor I expected from a Duke game. I guess some people expected something better than DN3D. Take off the nostalgia glasses and you'll see this game was everything they intended DN3D to be.
I have a hard time believing DN3D was intended to be terrible :cool:
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I'm playing it now. It's not that bad. It's the level of humor I expected from a Duke game. I guess some people expected something better than DN3D. Take off the nostalgia glasses and you'll see this game was everything they intended DN3D to be.
I have a hard time believing DN3D was intended to be terrible :cool:
You don't think the same ideas present in DNF wouldn't have found their way into DN3D if it would have been technically possible? You don't think DN3D didn't basically copy the FPS concepts of the time and add "interactivity?" I think you wildly overestimate people like George Broussard.
I'm telling you, a LOT of the hype around DN3D is nostalgia glasses. DNF will never be good, or even passable, to the people comparing it to DN3D regardless of the choices Gearbox/3D Realms made. Am I telling you the game's awesome? Heavens no, it is far from awesome. Am I telling you it is terrible? No, it is not terrible either.
It is an average game, and DN3D was an average game that gets placed on a pedestal because "OMG I REMEMBER THIS FROM WHEN I WAS (insert age here)!!!1 PIXELATED TITIES WERE DA BOMB!!!"
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I borrowed it off a friend yesterday and started playing it. It is decisively average, and by that I don't mean "average" in the way most people use it these days. In terms of gameplay, DNF seems to be just a run-of-the-mill shooter. There's nothing terribly exciting, but nothing really bad about it either. It's just... average. The humour is occasionally funny, but I don't find the game itself all that fun. I'm going to finish it simply because I don't like leaving games unfinished.
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Swantz is right btw.
Still they could have made a great game. Didn't happen.
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I'm playing it now. It's not that bad. It's the level of humor I expected from a Duke game. I guess some people expected something better than DN3D. Take off the nostalgia glasses and you'll see this game was everything they intended DN3D to be.
I have a hard time believing DN3D was intended to be terrible :cool:
You don't think the same ideas present in DNF wouldn't have found their way into DN3D if it would have been technically possible? You don't think DN3D didn't basically copy the FPS concepts of the time and add "interactivity?" I think you wildly overestimate people like George Broussard.
I'm telling you, a LOT of the hype around DN3D is nostalgia glasses. DNF will never be good, or even passable, to the people comparing it to DN3D regardless of the choices Gearbox/3D Realms made. Am I telling you the game's awesome? Heavens no, it is far from awesome. Am I telling you it is terrible? No, it is not terrible either.
It is an average game, and DN3D was an average game that gets placed on a pedestal because "OMG I REMEMBER THIS FROM WHEN I WAS (insert age here)!!!1 PIXELATED TITIES WERE DA BOMB!!!"
There is some very simple linguistic humor at work here and I really feel like you're missing the burn
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It is a bit of a shame in a way, if the creators had been willing to really go a little high concept there is potential for Duke to be pretty cool in a modern game. I think it could have be pretty awesome if they actually played Duke as this washed up offensive anachronism that everyone at the beginning of the story thinks is a egotistical douche bag. However, it ends up only his particular brand of arrogant badassedness that can succeed against the Alien hordes.
If they really embraced the tropes and played the humor right instead of being juvenile Duke could still make for a hilarious romp.
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DNF will have a sequel, it's been pretty much confirmed. So chances are that Gearbox which currently owns the IP will remedy a lot of the faults in DNF now that they can develop it ground up in-house. Here's hoping they will succeed and create a worthy successor to DN3D.
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DNF will have a sequel, it's been pretty much confirmed. So chances are that Gearbox which currently owns the IP will remedy a lot of the faults in DNF now that they can develop it ground up in-house. Here's hoping they will succeed and create a worthy successor to DN3D.
:yes:
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DNF will have a sequel, it's been pretty much confirmed. So chances are that Gearbox which currently owns the IP will remedy a lot of the faults in DNF now that they can develop it ground up in-house. Here's hoping they will succeed and create a worthy successor to DN3D.
Yeah... and when will that come out? 2030 ? :)
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Except they pretty much burned their reputation with DNF. Nobody will care about Duke Nukem Eternity.
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Except they pretty much burned their reputation with DNF. Nobody will care about Duke Nukem Eternity.
Sure they did.
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People are overanalyzing DNF.
I's a simple, silly shooter.
You are not analyzing DNF.
Some of us want to know if it's good or not.
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:wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:
I have no idea what you just mean by the former.
As for the latter - it's a silly and fun, but rather average shooter. Depending on your tastes (largely in humor) and expectations, you're probably gonna love it or hate it.
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It is a bit of a shame in a way, if the creators had been willing to really go a little high concept there is potential for Duke to be pretty cool in a modern game. I think it could have be pretty awesome if they actually played Duke as this washed up offensive anachronism that everyone at the beginning of the story thinks is a egotistical douche bag. However, it ends up only his particular brand of arrogant badassedness that can succeed against the Alien hordes.
That actually sounds pretty good!
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Well it was the way that it was done, actually. We basically see the president of the US of A telling duke to **** off with his ****, coz its time to talk, not fight like duke likes, etc. Then we see that it doesn't work that way, and the only way possible is duke's.
Of course, the execution of that idea was monumentally boring and dull and pathetic. So you are excused if you are in some misapprehension and think that they didn't do exactly what you said ;).
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Finally playing Duke Nukem Forever definitely was a childhood dream of mine... that I now wish had forever remained unfulfilled. Yurks.