Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: PsychoLandlord on March 09, 2011, 08:38:45 pm
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I seem to recall some decent SC II related discussion way back when I was lurking, and figured some of you might want to know about this.
http://www.sc2mapster.com/maps/sc1-episode-1-rebel-yell/ (http://www.sc2mapster.com/maps/sc1-episode-1-rebel-yell/)
I haven't played it yet, as I dont have SCII on this comp, but from what I've heard its a reasonably faithful recreation with a ton of custom content. They also added the original Music and Voice tracks, which sold it for me.
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i figured something like this would come along, downloading.
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Oh cool, I will certainly give this a try. I can't wait for any more zerg stuff, no matter if they port the old, or the new finally arrives. :)
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i went through it, could have been better. the annoying part is you have to close starcraft to play the next mission. i find it hard to believe that sc2 doesnt have a means to play single player campaign maps and mods through the interface.
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It hasn't ? I wanted so search for some player made campaigns in the near future. Since so many zerg stuff is in the editor, I was hoping for some player made campaigns
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the annoying part is you have to close starcraft to play the next mission.
Maps are now "linked", you can continue the campaign after finishing a map without having to exit the game.
This has been fixed.
EDIT : Original readme HERE (http://www.sc2mapster.com/maps/sc1-episode-1-rebel-yell/files/3-rebel-yell-v1-01/)
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Glad they fixed that at least. Nuke, care to elaborate on what could have been better? I'm certainly interested, but I wont be able to play for at least another month.
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Awesomeness, I thought putting Starcraft II into Starcraft was retardedly pointless, but putting Starcraft into Starcraft II is a lot better sounding.
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Glad they fixed that at least. Nuke, care to elaborate on what could have been better? I'm certainly interested, but I wont be able to play for at least another month.
well maps were kinda off. i noticed on space platform levels that the rusty pits were missing, and were made as the same level of the surrounding platform. i noticed this on the new gettysburg mission, a ramp for a mineral base i always take wasnt there (in fact the whole pit was missing), this changed the defensibility of the expo. there were also several changes in ai, such as ai use of nukes, which never seemed to happen (in classic sc there is a lot of nukeage from the ai in the last terran mission). also there was the thing with brood war units and the third person installation mission which made me nauseous (and seemed hackish at best) (and didnt let me invert my mouse). there was also the thing where the nuclear silo was not an addon to the command center, which required a lesser mineral investment to maintain a nuclear arsenal.
the maps themselves really didnt bother me, they played and looked much like the originals.
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I was worried about the way nukes were going to work in this. And flat removing portions of the map is kind of odd. I'm less concerned about units, as I had already figured there was going to be problems there, though this Installation Mission you speak of has piqued my interest.
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The Jacobs Installation became a third-person shooter with you as Raynor and everyone else as bots. The camera has some issues, and you have to stop moving to fire. Oh, and no Medics.
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That sounds.... interesting? Why the hell did they do that?
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Because the SC2 Galaxy Editor allows it. It really doesn't work that well though.
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and being primarily of the flight simmer discipline, the mouse is backwards from the way i prefer it. im always trying to pull up and end up staring at the floor (i enable invert mouse in all fps and tps games).
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It's funny...I can't play any shooter-type game on a gamepad/controller without inverting the control sticks, but it would seem completely unnatural to me to do the same thing with a mouse. I think it's because I never played Descent or FS on anything but a joystick, so I've never made that mental association.
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Same here. My first experience with Crysis was on a freind's PC with inverted mouse controls, and I literally could not wrap my head around it. Meanwhile, he's complaining from the other room because my Halo 3 controls were inverted.
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pilots tend to associate movement of the controls with rotations of the aircraft about various axes (in freespace i even sometimes use my pedals for yaw and joy x for roll). fpsers tend to associate the crosshair on the screen with a mouse pointer, and thus up is natural. i still see it as rotating about an axis, even though the mouse is translational in nature. having used the mouse in some very old 3d games (elite, old versions of ms flight simulator) kind of got me used to inverting my mouse.
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I must have been lucky then. All of my flight sim experiences involved joysticks.
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there were joysticks back then, just none of the 286es and 386es i used back then had joystick ports. joystick support required an add in card, for the sole purpose of joysticking. this was long before your typical computer had a sound card, so you couldn't just hijack a few adc channels on the sound card to provide joystick data. mice were usually all serial and most computers back then had at least 1 i/o board stock.
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The Jacobs Installation became a third-person shooter with you as Raynor and everyone else as bots. The camera has some issues, and you have to stop moving to fire. Oh, and no Medics.
In the original starcraft, most if all of your units couldn't attack unless they first stopped moving after getting into position. Sounds like starcraft 2 maintained this which makes sense for why the fps mod behaves as it does for shooting. Then again, the galaxy editor allowed a person to turn the game into an mmorpg. Sounds like the game would be entertaining as a first person arcadey flight sim aside from needing to stop to fire (if you can do first person as a ground unit, why not as a flying unit?).
there were joysticks back then, just none of the 286es and 386es i used back then had joystick ports. joystick support required an add in card, for the sole purpose of joysticking.
I hate the 386 from the early 90's. I grew up with a commodore 128 with lots of games for it and the gamepad for it you could plug into a sega genesis. But, the 386, my dad kept getting these computers for free en masse. My family had like 20 of them. They couldn't do anything else aside from dos, drdos (on a couple), and occasionally windows 3.11. There was a couple of games, but it really sucked compared to the commodore great giana sisters. For all the free computers my dad got for free, i think he could have purchased just one sound card at least. That would have opened up some avenues at least.
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my first pc was a 386 :D
lots of fun titles for that era of computers, mostly forgotten now, One Must Fall 2097 was a fave of mine closely followed by Wing Commander, Skunny Karts (a blatant rip of Mario), Jazz Jackrabbit, transport tycoon, civilization, and i can go on.
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Awesomeness, I thought putting Starcraft II into Starcraft was retardedly pointless, but putting Starcraft into Starcraft II is a lot better sounding.
I think this would be a lot of fun actually if someone did it. i think it would be very cool to see starcraft 2 in the classicness of starcraft 1. And that's even if starcraft 1 will allow for the new game play features which probably isn't capable. The best hopeful scenario would be that all you had to do is integrate all of the new units (all in itself right there would be a lot of work for sprites for everything and unit behavior) But, in this case definitely easier to port starcraft 1 to starcraft 2.
my first pc was a 386 :D
lots of fun titles for that era of computers, mostly forgotten now, One Must Fall 2097 was a fave of mine closely followed by Wing Commander, Skunny Karts (a blatant rip of Mario), Jazz Jackrabbit, transport tycoon, civilization, and i can go on.
Many fun titles indeed. I think my dad never got anything for them because he had 500 games for the commodore. The commodore had sound, could surf the internet, had plenty of games, and you could use the monitor as a tv. Great computer. Least to say i was much happier when the pentium 120 was purchased. I still whip out the old pentium for emergency use and i could play duke nukem 3d.
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my grandpa was an electronics repairman who eventually moved into computers before he kicked the bucket. so he had at least 4 or 5 machines around the house that were setup and ready to go. and several cases of 5-1/4" floppies, usually with enough of dos to self boot and usually one or two games each. there were literally hundreds of games in his collection. we would go through the sheds and closets looking for stuff. one time me and my brother accidentally found his collection of ancient computer porn on a bunch of unmarked floppies. we thought they were blank but when we popped em in to format them they were full of files, usually low res 1, 4 and 8-bit images and sometimes even video clips. it was one of the coolest things ever.
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Though this is a cool project, I can't really start to like this. Technically, this was fine work and like the idea. I also understand that they rose the difficulty level a bit, as the Terran campaign is indeed quite boring for the most parts if you know it already. But imo they overdid and as of mission 6/7 it starts getting annoying and becoming the usual "computer attacks you with 20 units every three minutes" crap. I admit, I am not a very good player, but aren't there any games made which are not optimized for drugged to the eyeballs South Koreans?
Is there any way to reduce the diffculty level? I didn't see one.
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IIRC you use the Difficulty slider in the Galaxy Editor itself, though they recommended you play on normal.
The Zerg Campaign is out now too, and its a tad more polished. The still do that third person shooter BS on the Amerigo, but you play as Kerrigan so you can rape everything easily. Lurkers are op as hell though.
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ooh goodie. zerg <3.
another thing i found annoying is if you managed to get in and destroy some structures, and fall back to regroup and repair. you would come back and the buildings would have been rebuilt as they were. in sc1 the ai would never do that, unless it was an expo.
*edit*
i forgot to emphasize how annoying this is. in the mission where kerrigan hatches, i swept through the main base northward with a massive wave of mutas. i destroy every building skipping raynor's command center. when i flew my mutas back down to the southern end of the base every building i destroyed, not 30 seconds earlier, had been rebuilt, in exactly the same spot. in fact i even noticed a starport having been errected after i blew up the factory, but before the new factory finished building, that should be impossible. so this ai is ****ing cheating in that its not following the proper tech tree. its making it so that the only way to really get anywhere is to fight defensively until you have an epic fleet, and then sweep over the map. this is somewhat insane.
furthermore the minerals and gas at all enemy bases was for the most part untouched, with few if any workers (while i cleared my base and an expo and was mining two additional expos). how was the ai funding all this building? why do i get the feeling the ai has infinite resources. despite all this the game isnt even all that hard. the ai is very predictable and somewhat stupid, loosing dropship after dropship to my defenses. the maps look good though, but the gameplay just doesnt feel right.
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Well, the AI in the SC1 campaign did also triggers to have infinite minerals and gas. So that is not the biggest problem here. The biggest problem still is that they changed it so that they player is forced into do or die situations in most missions. You either success in your assault or you can virtually give up and reload. It's okay if the AI rebuilds after some time, it did back in SC2, too, but not the way it does here.
Overall I got the impression that the main intention of this project was not to enable players who don't know SC1 yet to play the SC1 campaigns, but just to pimp it for the esports commmunity.
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I've had it with this mod. It's not even remotely playing fair. I got stuck on the 3rd terran mission. I've played it a half dozen times and gotten obliterated every time. I set up my resourcing, do all the pertinent upgrades. I build bunkers 3 deep at the choke points and I lose 3 of the 4 bunkers to a squad of about 20 zerglings before I manage to kill all of them. Nevermind the later squads with 10 hydralisks. It's broken.
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Well, the AI in the SC1 campaign did also triggers to have infinite minerals and gas.
If you mean the main single player campaign in sc1, then i sure never saw this in action ever. Usually when the enemy runs out of resources, they're out and they have to find more.
When all else fails, kill all their scv's and take out the command structure (not entirely an easy thing to do). It doesn't matter who has infinite resources then.
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I've had it with this mod. It's not even remotely playing fair. I got stuck on the 3rd terran mission. I've played it a half dozen times and gotten obliterated every time. I set up my resourcing, do all the pertinent upgrades. I build bunkers 3 deep at the choke points and I lose 3 of the 4 bunkers to a squad of about 20 zerglings before I manage to kill all of them. Nevermind the later squads with 10 hydralisks. It's broken.
You're doing something crazy wrong if you're losing that many bunkers to 20 Zerglings, two or three bunkers alone should be able to handle that.
Are they supported with SCVs for repairs?
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If I can spare one, getting an economy going in the time alotted is...difficult. It's frustrating, a defensive structure is supposed to be more durable.
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Well I think the bunker is actually one of the most durable defensive structure, but zerglings just have an insane dps for their size. And there's a lot of them.
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How do you set up 3 rows of bunkers using... 4 bunkers? I think that may be your problem, if you're not using the range of bunkers properly.
Also, does walling with supply depots still kinda work?
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I managed to beat that mission with a pair of bunkers at either end, a line of missile turrets on the front wall, and a roving band of Marines and Medics. Didn't give me too much trouble.
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Heh - I remember the first time I played that mission on good 'ole SC. I've still never gotten myself to go on the offensive on that mission to kill the Zerg lair, rather just trying to secure the base.
...Regardless, I thought I had built a nice defensive line. And then there was a wall of Zerg! Those transports showed up just in time, or everyone would have died. :p
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If you mean the main single player campaign in sc1, then i sure never saw this in action ever. Usually when the enemy runs out of resources, they're out and they have to find more.
When all else fails, kill all their scv's and take out the command structure (not entirely an easy thing to do). It doesn't matter who has infinite resources then.
I mixed something up there. In those enslaver campaigns the AI had such triggers, in the official SC1 singleplayer campaign it has not.
I've had it with this mod. It's not even remotely playing fair. I got stuck on the 3rd terran mission. I've played it a half dozen times and gotten obliterated every time. I set up my resourcing, do all the pertinent upgrades. I build bunkers 3 deep at the choke points and I lose 3 of the 4 bunkers to a squad of about 20 zerglings before I manage to kill all of them. Nevermind the later squads with 10 hydralisks. It's broken.
You're doing something crazy wrong if you're losing that many bunkers to 20 Zerglings, two or three bunkers alone should be able to handle that.
Are they supported with SCVs for repairs?
What Liberator describes there is indeed strange, but overall he's right. This is not fair or balanced at all. I sometimes wonder if this was even playtested at all. In Terran 08 you can't place a Command Center in the middle of the mineral field in the northern corner of the map as you're supposed to.
And Terran 10 is defenitely unbeatable for casual players. After I got attacked by the red player with seven tanks or so and a couple of Goliathas, then thirty seconds later by the white player with a slightly thougher force, then again a few moments later by two battle cruisers and again one or two minutes later by a dozen fighters and one or two cruisers, I used cheats to beat the mission. Sorry if I sound a *bit* querulous, but this hasn't anything to do with fun for me. I play games to relax, not to work off my high. :wtf:
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Now that I'm actually able to go through it, I find myself agreeing with you. I am by no means an excellent SC player, and the later Terran Missions (and many of the Zerg ones) are rather ridiculous. Good thing they're easy to edit.
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Now that I'm actually able to go through it, I find myself agreeing with you. I am by no means an excellent SC player, and the later Terran Missions (and many of the Zerg ones) are rather ridiculous. Good thing they're easy to edit.
Did you find out how to change the AI in the individual missions? I didn't find anything in the editor except that difficulty level setting under File/Preferences which doesn't seem to have much of an effect, not to say no effect at all.
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I figured out how to take away their massive resource injections (which they get every 75 seconds) but I haven't found the variable that allows them to build instantly.
The Resource things is the "Computer Resources" trigger in the Trigger menu. You can also edit frequency of attacks from there.
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Ah, there it is. Got to try out this tomorrow. Thanks for the hint.
And, by the way: In the comments of the download hp there are also complaints about the extreme difficulty level and the makers announced that there might be different difficulty levels in the future, but that it's just not their priority by now.
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well i just beat the culling. just barely. it didnt help that towards the end i was low on gas, and i would have normally used the gas at the enemy bases i had taken out. unfortunately they were unusable because they were too close the the map boundary. fortunately i had strong defenses and i could just wait for enough trickle gas to accumulate to build a fleet for the final assault. ive started taking workers along with my attack fleet to build structures on ground taken. to prevent the enemy from sneaking a couple workers through and rebuilding everything. for zerg that also means building a hatchery, which kinda sucks. of course in this mission since i was fighting zerg i was able to build sunken and spore colonies in their creep before it receded.